<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "deceiver tactics"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net deceiver tactics http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1652022.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1652022.page GMT deceiver tactics MCs and tanks. to me the deciever is a bit useless and a waste of points, he can't do much, i'm afraid. Thanks for asking!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1652170.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1652170.page GMT Re:deceiver tactics

"Thats not the Nightbringer it the Deciever, He's Decieving you into thinking he's the Nightbringer"






you use him to pull units away from the rest of your army. he assaults the rear of an enemy unit, forces them to Pile in away from your other units, he then leaves in the enemies assault phase(after killing a few in your assault phase of course)

he can redeploy your entire army potentially. or at least 1 unit. going first? did your opponent put his Lootas in a Perfect position to blast your warriors on his first turn? move them.

He isn't too shabby in CC either. No saves may be taken against his Str9 attacks AND he gets 2d6 penetration aganst vehicles.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1652185.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1652185.page GMT deceiver tactics
YmeLocSquirrel256 wrote:As a necron player, i feel that the nightbringer is the better c'tan to use, as the lightning arc 24" range Str9 AP2 Assault 1, is excellent at shooting at MCs and tanks. to me the deciever is a bit useless and a waste of points, he can't do much, i'm afraid. Thanks for asking!


i would if it weren't for the fact that my local gaming store hosts an 1850 pt tournament were the nightbringer would be a 5th of my army in point value.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1652275.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1652275.page GMT Re:deceiver tactics

Since that doesn't help...

Grey Templar's advice is pretty sound.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1652289.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1652289.page GMT deceiver tactics http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1652426.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1652426.page GMT Re:deceiver tactics http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1652432.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1652432.page GMT deceiver tactics
Ive seen him best used in combo with a monolith, as it hides him till he is close enough to assault something that is too squishy to hurt him. He can walk through most units easily, and jump out of unfavorable combats. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1652734.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1652734.page GMT deceiver tactics
Elnicko5 wrote:Ive seen him best used in combo with a monolith, as it hides him till he is close enough to assault something that is too squishy to hurt him.

tht works? sounds really easy to outmaneuver to me. guess i have to see it in person to understand.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1652794.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1652794.page GMT deceiver tactics http://saimhann.blogspot.com/
I vaguely recall seeing Deciever tactics by fritz, but i know there are Necron Tactics.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1652807.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1652807.page GMT deceiver tactics
Emporer Penguin wrote:
Elnicko5 wrote:Ive seen him best used in combo with a monolith, as it hides him till he is close enough to assault something that is too squishy to hurt him.

tht works? sounds really easy to outmaneuver to me. guess i have to see it in person to understand.


Well, it works. You really don't have to see it in person to understand. It is an AV 14 living metal wall preventing long range anti-tank from targeting your monstrous creature. You are betting that the monolith can absorb the damage and not go down, meanwhile protecting your Deceiver from the only thing that is really a threat to it. You can maneuver all you like, weapons that will do the most damage, like an auto-cannon or heavy bolter, will be heavy 2 or 3. Tanks may be able to get a shot at the Deceiver, but he has 4 wounds IIRC. Players can maneuver away, but running away has never been a sound battle plan.

The one Necron player I faced tried to roll up my flank with this combo, forcing me to run to one side of the board or watch as most of my army was unable to scratch the frekking thing. He had an improvised firing squad set up on that side of the board with squads of warriors, a rez orb lord, and, I think, Heavy destroyers. Granted I was playing a kan wall list, so less than optimal maneuverability, but Ive seen the same list chew up a mech SW list.

I think it comes down to this- in every game there comes a point where maneuvering is no longer a factor, and something needs to be held, or taken. the Deceiver-monolith combo is built for this, it contests objectives like no other unit(s). Little in the game can beat the Deceiver in combat, and it can leave combat before blows are struck, so it can choose to avoid those combats it can not win. The monolith, aside from protecting the Deceiver, is not too shabby in so far as its shooting ability. In straight annihilation the combo loses some of its appeal, but a clever general should be able to make it work for him.

Aside from this, there are other reasons this combo works fairly well-
The monolith can teleport units in reinforcing a given side, and gives a second chance at WBB rolls- always a good thing to have.
The Deceiver special rule that lets him redeploy a unit- to bait and switch in dawn of war scenarios.

If any of this is appealing to you, give the combo a go. Like I said there is a guy who runs the combo, and it works well enough for him. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1653152.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1653152.page GMT deceiver tactics
Lucky LD fails and redeployment is just icing. Etheric Tempest is less dependable, his shooting attack is meh, he's I 4, and Gaze of Death isn't so great.

Both have to play counterassault, intercepting units moving to assault your vulnerable warriors. They aren't fast enough for anything else.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1653270.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1653270.page GMT Re:deceiver tactics
Grey Templar wrote:
No saves may be taken against his Str9 attacks AND he gets 2d6 penetration aganst vehicles.


The deciever does not carry weapons. Strange, I know, like Tau markerlights, improves something else but can't do that much on its own. Not in all ways I admit.

Elnicko5 wrote:
T8 means S4 cant touch him, limiting the possibility of a torrent of fire taking him down, plus a 4+ invuln. save. Nasty.


Both C'tan have Toughness 8 and 4+ invulnerable saves!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1665750.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1665750.page GMT Re:deceiver tactics
the scyth that the Nightbringer has is stated as being purly decorative.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1665834.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1665834.page GMT deceiver tactics GW. It says it is purely for show by the weapons section on its stats page, but below, it has the stats of an Assault weapon. lol!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1665873.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1665873.page GMT Re:deceiver tactics http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1665888.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1665888.page GMT deceiver tactics
YmeLocSquirrel256 wrote:epic fail read from YmeLocSquirrel. It isn't actually a weapon! lol!


Edited some junk, all the same. Please, look stuff up before spewing hate on games workshop, the company that produces your game...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1665903.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1665903.page GMT deceiver tactics WYSIWYG based.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1665946.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1665946.page GMT deceiver tactics http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1665958.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1665958.page GMT Re:deceiver tactics ). And all that expense is points not going into Destroyers. (Or converted Immortals. Thanks for that guide!)

YmeLocSquirrel256 wrote:
The deciever does not carry weapons. Strange, I know, like Tau markerlights, improves something else but can't do that much on its own. Not in all ways I admit.


He reforms his body into pointy bits (Necrodermis). And since when could giant monsters NOT club things with their fists, especially when they get a strong attack value? (Wraithlords without Wraithswords can still hit things at Str10 in close combat.)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1667317.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1667317.page GMT deceiver tactics 2d6 any enemy assault phase. It's amazing and he is extremely fast because of it. can dread while running ect. He's a fast C'tan, which is amazing.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1667574.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1667574.page GMT deceiver tactics http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1668429.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1668429.page GMT Re:deceiver tactics
Con Carne wrote:
YmeLocSquirrel256 wrote:
The deciever does not carry weapons. Strange, I know, like Tau markerlights, improves something else but can't do that much on its own. Not in all ways I admit.



He reforms his body into pointy bits (Necrodermis). And since when could giant monsters NOT club things with their fists, especially when they get a strong attack value? (Wraithlords without Wraithswords can still hit things at Str10 in close combat.)


And since when was a fist called a weapon? See, I never thought fist began with a w, even when I was young. The necrodermis prevents all types of knifes and swords from wounding the C'tan (any) even warscythe equivalent phase blades. Even instant death from a wraithcannon, only inflicts 1 wound without the Invulnerable saving throw. And the necrodermis D6" (D6 result = radius in inches around the C'tan) ranged S6 weapon if it dies? Very unlikely, so all the necrodermis does, is protect the C'tan, not fight for it. Come on guys, a god with 5 Wounds, and an AP2 wraithcannon can hardly do nothing.

Anyways, you can take 4 Pariahs in a unit ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1668617.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1668617.page GMT Re:deceiver tactics
YmeLocSquirrel256 wrote:
And since when was a fist called a weapon?

I notice that Scarab Swarm bases do not have weapons ("Weapons: None." Source: page 19 of Necron Codex, second printing). Does this mean that they cannot attack, even if you give them disruption fields?

If you don't think that they can attack in close combat as a result, I'll try argument 2.

The Deceiver's profile states that he carries no weapons. Mainly because his body is a weapon. This is in the rules of the Codex.

"In addition, a C'Tan can reshape its necrodermis (see below) at will to form blades and spikes. Its close combat attacks therefore ignore invulnerable saving throws." (emphasis mine, source: page 27 of Necron Codex, second printing)

The Codex acknowledges 1) that he hits people with pointy things in close combat (giving him a weapon), and 2) he actually has close combat attacks.

Also, out of curiousity, AT WHAT POINT did you think that the rule above meant that:
YmeLocSquirrel256 wrote:The necrodermis prevents all types of knifes and swords from wounding the C'tan (any) even warscythe equivalent phase blades.


...Right then...Inquisitor_Syphonius, do you have any red pills I could take?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1670555.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1670555.page GMT Re:deceiver tactics
Con Carne wrote:
Also, out of curiousity, AT WHAT POINT did you think that the rule above meant that:
YmeLocSquirrel256 wrote:
The necrodermis prevents all types of knifes and swords from wounding the C'tan (any) even warscythe equivalent phase blades.


The Codex states that:

If a sword or knife strikes a C'tan it will inflict no wounds and will be absorbed into the necrodermis, disarming the attacker.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1672394.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1672394.page GMT Re:deceiver tactics C'tan phase blade or knife hits the C'tan it does no wounds and is absorbed into the Necrodermis"

the Necrodermis doesn't disarm every attacker, it only disarms those with C'tan Phase blades.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1672424.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1672424.page GMT deceiver tactics
"If a C'tan phase sword or knife strikes a C'tan...."]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1672433.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1672433.page GMT Re:deceiver tactics Oh well, carry on.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1672704.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1672704.page GMT deceiver tactics ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1672750.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1672750.page GMT deceiver tactics http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1672855.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1672855.page GMT deceiver tactics That being said, I'm dying for more options and some points/stats tweaks.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1673870.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1673870.page GMT deceiver tactics
There's lots of numbers they could change that could rebalance the Necron Codex in newer and more terrifying ways. For instance, I'd like to see GW change the number "0.75" into "0.90". I'm still not sure whether we should see the number of C'Tan used in the army go from "0-1" to "0-0." The Deceiver's such a useful crutch...which might call for his removal after all. We'll see :/]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1675570.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1675570.page GMT deceiver tactics
i completely agree with the notion of .90.

and finally, if they don't put any c'tan in the next necron codex, i might as well sell mine and use the money on my other armies.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1675620.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1675620.page GMT deceiver tactics
"The Nightbringer can only be used in games of 4000 points or more..."

Or we might end up seeing Pariahs getting wings that grant them a 3+ invulnerable save. It depends on whether the Codex writers misunderstand that it isn't Space Marines they're writing a codex for.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1675782.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1675782.page GMT deceiver tactics
Con Carne wrote:Or we might end up seeing Pariahs getting wings that grant them a 3+ invulnerable save.


where did tht come from?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1676130.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1676130.page GMT Re:deceiver tactics http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1677164.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1677164.page GMT Re:deceiver tactics ). It actually looks like it might be fun, against armies that aren't Fearless, at any rate. This list will be expensive in terms of points. The Deceiver, Necron Lord, Pariahs, two units of Flayed Ones, AND the required two squads of Necron Warriors, will drive your points total up to something fairly large already. At the same time, you need Fast Attack and Heavy Support to shore up areas that you're lacking in: longer-range firepower besides the Pariahs, and hopefully anti-tank.

You have your Elites and HQ choices filled up, and I think I have a good idea of what troop choices you're going to be using. How are you going to fill up your Fast Attack and Heavy Support choices?

For Fast Attack, multiple units of Wraiths would fit your theme, but I don't know if they'd be as useful as lots of Destroyers. Taking a big Scarab Swarm is optional, but could be useful for delaying things that you absolutely cannot handle in close combat/tying up enemy shooting units.

For Heavy Support, do you intend to use two Monoliths + a selection of Tomb Spyders, or do you want to spam Tomb Spyders (this could lead to a hilarious list, but beware of Kill Point missions), or what?
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1678621.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1678621.page GMT Re:deceiver tactics
welcometowaaaghmart wrote: or the unit needs sixes to hit the necrons that turn.


Read the Terrifying Visage rule again. Only works when directing attacks against the Flayed Ones in melee combat. It implies only a specific FO unit too, but I'm not too sure how that will work.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1678805.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1678805.page GMT Re:deceiver tactics GW and they said that if the unit failed one the unit needs 6s to hit everything in that combat that is necron. For heavy support i plan on multiple monoliths, and fast attack will be wraiths. The gaze of flame gives an additional -1 to ld with the unit he is in combat with and denies extra attacks when the unit gets charged]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1678863.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1678863.page GMT Re:deceiver tactics GW was answering e-mails at the time, the rule is very specific when it says: "If they fail then for that round they may only hit the Flayed Ones on a roll of a 6 regardless of WS." (Emphasis mine, source: page 17 of Necron Codex, second printing)

D'oh, I spaced out about the Gaze of Flame modifier. Good call!

About the army, I recommend having two Monoliths, and that you take one selection's worth of Tomb Spyders in the event that your Flayed Ones or Necron Warriors get separated from each other. Also, Tomb Spyders are a hilarious response to vehicles that underestimate them. Good luck, and remember the Golden Rule for Necrons: Birds of a feather flock together. Wraiths need to stay together, and Warriors/Flayed Ones need to be with a Tomb Spyder or with others of their kind.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1678904.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1678904.page GMT Re:deceiver tactics http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1678944.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1678944.page GMT deceiver tactics http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1679994.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/299391/1679994.page GMT