Ragnar4 wrote:As I kinda think about it.

I think 3 blocks of 25 tomb guard are going to become standard in just about every Tomb Kings build. Along with a prince in each unit to try to bolster the number of quality attacks.

I also think that Heavy Cav are going to become the core of choice for most armies, relying on their high speed, and rank breaking from the flanks, while chariot units will act as a sort of 1 turn anvil to allow the heavy cav to get into position.

I see 2 units of skullapults becoming a standard in every game because they are super cheap and brutally efficient now. Many players are going to sacrifice a character to kill their opponents BSB in order to make the best use of the skullapult.

While Ushabti are nice, I don't see units of 6 getting used very often because they are so damn expensive. There's a lot of speculation that ogres are to 8th as heavy cav were to 7th. But Heavy cav blow the hell out of ogres.. So what we're going to see is Infantry>Heavy Cav > Ogres > Infantry... etc etc. Sort of a rock-paper-scissors thing going on.

Tossing 370 points at one unit is ludicris though IMO.

A lot of support units for the Tomb Kings, though, have become even more worthless from what I'm reading...

Scorpions are the same,

But carrion have gotten worse IMO, along with light cav.. Although light cav line skewing still ought to exist to some extent, the fact that after a combat you can re-form makes life stupid.

All in All, I think the Kings are going to really be a tough army to use well until their new book comes out.

Pray to god they don't shaft us with the magic.

citadel97501 wrote:If you read the PDF, priests count as level 1 wizards for bonuses, and high priests count as level 3's. They simply aren't allowed to channel dice, oh and the less than 3 thing doesn't apply to Khemri. The biggest issue they have is that none of their bound items technically work. . .

This means that this is your standard magic phase at 2K. At anything higher you always take 2 high liche priests.
This ends up being 14 to 20 power dice every turn, try and dispel it I dare you.

3 Liche Priests
2d6+1
2d6+1
2d6+1

Tomb Prince
1d6

High Liche Priest with Staff of Mastery, and Golden Ankhra. (You might take two naked High Liche Priests instead)
3d6+4
3d6+4

Ragnar4 wrote:@The Grog.

The 3+ minimum to dispell rule gives Tomb Kings magic rolled on a single d6 nearly a guaranteed 33% to succeed, AND causes serious problems with backloading in the game.

We can assume that the average number of dice your opponent will hold will be 5-6. Which is actually decent.

BUT

Even by todays standards, your typical tomb kings army would have 2 princes, 1 king and a liche priest.

that's 1d6, 1d6, 1d6, 1d6, 1d6 and 2d6. Here's the problem.

I roll 1 d6 and get a 1. You throw your 1d6 right back at it. Only an idiot would roll 2 dice against the one right? but if you roll a 1 or a 2.. you automatically fail. Same goes for every possible number I can roll with 1d6. so for those first 5d6 you're praying to god you don't roll a 1 or a 2.

Go toss 5d6 about 100 times and measure how many times you roll a 1 or a 2.

Then, after it's all said and done, I get 2d6.

The reason that Tomb Kings magic is so darn tough to deal with, is that he picks one game breaker maneuver and casts, and re-casts, and re-casts at that one thing trying to get it done. I'd even go so far as to suggest, that it's MORE resilient now than it ever was before. Which is odd.

The magic phase is nice, but you have to be able to wtfpwn your opponent with whatever it is you're going to do. That's the problem, the new rules don't really support Kings being able to get in and win hardcore.

It is what it is. But the Kings are fine in the magic phase.. it's the combat phase that is the tough nut. But I'm not giving up yet.

The Grog wrote:

What game breaking maneuver? You don't have comets, you don't have the purple sun, you don't have those awesome Light buffs. You can make a catapult shoot twice, and that's about the most awesomely amazing thing possible. Can you even break ranks with chariots in the side now?

And are you sure dispels fail on a 1-2? I thought that was casting only. Even then, at a 33% failure rate you are still going to get 3 spells canceled on average and only casting 5 times.

citadel97501 wrote:Speaking about the Chariots, I wonder if they need to be 5 wide to provide a rank? It seems kind of irritating, but the wording on how they rank up says as cavalry in the pdf, that does seem to say 5 wide. :(

Ragnar4 wrote:
--Page 35, Dispel Value, Paragraph 3 ... Just as when casting a spell, a total natural dice score of 1 or 2 is always considered to be a failure, despite any modifiers..

Page 2 third paragraph of the Tomb King PDF, says Miscasts, Irresistable force and rolling under a 3 don't apply to Nehekaran Invocations, (IE tomb king magic.)

Ragnar4 wrote:
--Game Breaking Maneuvre, last edition used to be a flank charge, or a combo charge that would blow up a battle line. This edition. I have no clue. I haven't played enough. The steadfast rule is pissing in my wheaties all day long.

--Page 35, Dispel Value, Paragraph 3 ... Just as when casting a spell, a total natural dice score of 1 or 2 is always considered to be a failure, despite any modifiers..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also.. The bonus from the priests only counts for dispelling these days.

Ragnar4 wrote:Also.. if you fail to dis-spell that wizard can't attempt any more.. so the moment that lvl 4 fails to get the job done.. you go to your lvl 2.

The Grog wrote:I'd say the casket is more vulnerable to shooting now. Before you at least had the random chance to hit the casket itself, now you eat 6s to wound all the time.

That's 240 points to deal 4 wounds per volley to T3, before armor saves. Not all that attractive to me, since if you put 240 points of Empire Swordsmen on the other end of the deployment zone I think you'll lose.

On the other hand, in a bizarre twist of fate, TK infantry shooting might be the best in the game right now. Penalties from cover are going to be a lot more common and no more bonuses to shoot large targets puts a damper on most people's bowfire. I'd never magic up bowfire when I could have a catapult shot.

The naked priests are awesome. No more slot opportunity costs means you'll see a lot more low-equipment characters and odd choices show up.

The Grog wrote:

I think Life regenerates dead troops better now.

Ragnar4 wrote:The thunderstomp helps immensely. Since your opponent doesn't get additional attacks when flanked, and since your giant gets an additional d6 hits that wound on 2's and can't be saved. It seriously helps.

What sucks is that your opponent can bring his front to bear. What has to be done, then, is a unit of skeletons needs to get into that open flank and run it off.

I'm most intrigued by Vanguard chariots. Suddenly, they are the best war-machine hunters we've got.

Igice wrote:

Ragnar4 wrote:The thunderstomp helps immensely. Since your opponent doesn't get additional attacks when flanked, and since your giant gets an additional d6 hits that wound on 2's and can't be saved. It seriously helps.

What sucks is that your opponent can bring his front to bear. What has to be done, then, is a unit of skeletons needs to get into that open flank and run it off.

I'm most intrigued by Vanguard chariots. Suddenly, they are the best war-machine hunters we've got.

What about scorpions and swarms? maybe a little less reliable but when they work right you can charge the turn they enter and either tie up or demolish them. I have always had good succses with this tactic, i have yet to play a game of 8th and am wondering if this is still viable?

Squig wrote:So does anyone know "when" we are going to get the rumoured new book?

Red_Zeke wrote:Why can they charge in the magic phase? The rule in the BRB says they cannot declare a charge in the first turn if their side goes first. It doesn't specify movement phase vs. magic phase.

Note that I'm all for things helping TK at this point, but as I read it, I don't think this is permitted? It's entirely possible there's something in the FAQ that I've missed.

RZ

Zenkaron wrote:Take the Wizard Hat.

Minsc wrote:

Red_Zeke wrote:Why can they charge in the magic phase? The rule in the BRB says they cannot declare a charge in the first turn if their side goes first. It doesn't specify movement phase vs. magic phase.

Note that I'm all for things helping TK at this point, but as I read it, I don't think this is permitted? It's entirely possible there's something in the FAQ that I've missed.

RZ

I think the the FAQ makes some sort of statement akin to "Your unit may make a regular move, if this would bring them into contact with the enemy then treat it as though a charge were declared". Basically, not-a-charge-but-works-like-one. I don't have TK book though, so it's speculation on my part. Sort of like why I think a Waaagh! into an enemy unit (or even an Animosity 6) would be possible for Spider Riders or Wolf Riders.