Latest posts for the thread "Thinking of starting Eldar - what should I be looking for?"

Thinking of starting Eldar - what should I be looking for?

SilverMK2 — GMT

I've been thinking of starting an Eldar army for a while as I want something different from my other armies (which are pretty standard "stand and shoot" or "run and hit the enemy" type affairs). The mobility of the Eldar attracts me.

However, before I rush off and buy a load of cool looking but rather useless units (which is what I tend to do), I thought I would try and build up an idea of what I want and what will be effective first.

So, I throw it open to you, what units should I be looking at and in what numbers and how should I be using them?

I'm going to list a few units that I like the look/idea of that I want to try and include if at all possible (assuming they are not just rubbish anyway , but if they are naff, please let me know - I want to have an army that will not utterly suck, even if that means cutting units I like.

General theme of the army:
Harlequins - I want to build a themed army biased towards these guys - preferably on jet bikes. The general idea will be a fast moving army, including units of Warp Spiders, Harlequins on bikes, and any other units with their own transports to shuttle them around. The idea will be to try and hit and run, shooting at the enemy before retreating before they can get close enough to assault, while assaulting units that get broken away from the main body of the army.

Points:
Somewhere in the 1,500 - 2,000 point range.

Units I like:
Harlequins
Warp Spiders
Jet Bikes
Grav Tanks

Thanks in advance for your help

EDIT: Oh, and if anyone has any Eldar they would like to trade, I have lots of Orks that I would be willing to send your way

Thinking of starting Eldar - what should I be looking for?

mercer — GMT

Eldar "The Lost" - 2,000 points

HQ

Farseer doom, guide & spirit stones 120
Farseer guide & runes of warding 90

Elites

5 x Fire Dragons w/ Wave Serpent serpent w/ twin-linked brightlance & shuriken cannon 225
5 x Fire Dragons w/ Wave Serpent serpent w/ twin-linked shuriken cannon & shuriken cannon 190
5 x Fire Dragons w/ Wave Serpent serpent w/ twin-linked shuriken cannon & shuriken cannon 190

Troops

10 x Dire Avengers w/ Wave Serpent serpent w/ twin-linked brightlance & shuriken cannon 265
10 x Dire Avengers w/ Wave Serpent serpent w/ twin-linked brightlance & shuriken cannon 265
10 x Dire Avengers w/ Wave Serpent serpent w/ twin-linked brightlance & shuriken cannon 265
6 x Guardian jetbikes 2 x shuriken cannon 152

Heavy Support

Fire Prism 115
Fire Prism 115

Total 1992

Dude I'll bring my Eldar next week. Oh, I might be selling them. I'll let you know!

Now I know that's not Harlequins but it has got some jetbikes. Just replace the infantry with jetbikes; however mass wave serpents are the win as you'll find out

Re:Thinking of starting Eldar - what should I be looking for?

dayve110 — GMT

The beauty of the Eldar list i find is that almost any unit can work well with other units or characters supporting them. However on their own most unit will fail. You need a decent mix of shooting (the most effective for Eldar being short-mid range shooting) as well as some hefty combat units.

Fortunatly the Eldar army offers a nice selection, and any task you can think of... theres a unit for you in the codex! Although you will not be able to fit all these units into one list so you have to choose your force carefully. With mobility on your side however you can outmanouvre most opponents and strike when and where you want to without too much hassle, and you really have to do this, if your in the wrong place at the wrong time expensive T3 units won't last very long.

Ok. Let's start with your general theme

Harlequins - I want to build a themed army biased towards these guys

Harlequins are good at combat, plain and simple, you can take out hordes due to your multiple S4 attacks, or take out elite troops due to rending. If push comes to shove you can throw in a fusion pistol or two and try to pop open a tank.

preferably on jet bikes.

Sadly harlequins cannot be given jetbikes, but considering they ignore difficult terrain and have fleet, they are not that much slower. If you fancy some converting, get some shining spears and model them to look like harlequins.

The general idea will be a fast moving army, including units of Warp Spiders, Harlequins on bikes, and any other units with their own transports to shuttle them around.

This is generally a good tactic i find works well, warp spiders are decent all rounders, high strength mass shooting can kill even terminators with just sheer volume of saves, and at a pinch they can get behind a vehicle and detroy it and with -1 to damage table due to AP- this may not seem likely but it DOES HAPPEN, i sometimes take two units and go vehicle hunting to great effect. Now most units can take a wave serpent and any many small units can be put into a falcon, so your choices are still wide open on what to take.

The idea will be to try and hit and run, shooting at the enemy before retreating before they can get close enough to assault, while assaulting units that get broken away from the main body of the army.

This tactic works well for me, a few long range shots then a flurry of close shots before taking out any weak links. My favorite situation is when the opponent splits his army, using your mobility you can pounce upon the weaker half, destroying it utterly very quickly if done right before regrouping to strike at another target.

----------------------------------------------

Now lets move on to the units you like and try to get a 1500 points list going.
Lets start with your favorite, harlequins. Take one unit of 10, this will draw lots of fire and possibly pull an enemy out of position, with this many models you can't go all out on upgrades as you will be a little bit too expensive. so throw in a shadow seer for along with two fusion pistols (just in case) and 3 harlequins kisses, to get at least some rending attacks. After that take two more units of harlequins that are identical, 5 strong with a troupe master with power sword, kisses for 3 of them. Put these two units inside a falcon each, arm the falcon with EML, PL, SS and HF. Its expensive, but worth it.
So now you have 3 elites and 2 heavy, time to take some troops and a HQ. I'd reccoment a Farseer with doom and fortune, with shiny wargear of course, put him in one of the falcons
For the troops, you like jetbikes... and GTB are cheap and cheerfull for a minimum squad of 3... take 2 units of 5 with 1 SC each.
So now we need some fast attack... how about some warp spiders and some shining spears (converted to look like harlequins)

----------------------------------------

So... your army will look like this.

HQ
Farseer - Doom, Fortune, Runes of witnessing, Spirit stones - 130

Elite
10x Harlequins - Shadow seer, 2x fusion pistols, 3x harlequins kiss - 242
5x harlequins - Troupe master, Power sword, 3x harlequins kiss - 122
5x harlequins - Troupe master, Power sword, 3x harlequins kiss - 122

Troops
5x Guardin jetbikes - Shuriken cannon - 120
5x Guardin jetbikes - Shuriken cannon - 120

Fast attack
5x warp spiders - Exarch, additional death spinner - 127
3x Shining spears - Exarch, star lance, withdraw - 157

Heavy support
Falcon grav tank - Pulse laser, EML, Spirit stones, holo-fields - 180
Falcon grav tank - Pulse laser, EML, Spirit stones, holo-fields - 180

Total
1500

---------------------------

This should give you some punch in close combat and some decent shooting, concentrate on one unit at a time and doom it for great effect, fortune those harlies on foot as they advance, with the speed you can get to with this army you should be able to do pretty well and have alot of fun doing it, even if you loose.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

mercer wrote:However mass wave serpents are the win as you'll find out

unless you know what your doing, in which case mech spam is just that... spam. I know it can be effective, but not every Eldar army has to resort to spamming vehicles. Its just plain boring aswell.

Thinking of starting Eldar - what should I be looking for?

wuestenfux — GMT

Well, if you want a Harlequin bases army, then I'd reconsider the old experimental codex of Gav Thorpe.

Re:Thinking of starting Eldar - what should I be looking for?

mercer — GMT

dayve110 wrote:
mercer wrote:However mass wave serpents are the win as you'll find out

unless you know what your doing, in which case mech spam is just that... spam. I know it can be effective, but not every Eldar army has to resort to spamming vehicles. Its just plain boring aswell.

Unless you know my schedule Davey you'd probably want to know me and SilverMK2 have a game next week. So my words reflect on our upcoming game

If you want to say it's spam then fine, but what other dedicated transports have Eldar got? How else do you get Fire Dragon into range? The list you suggested has little chance against a real mech army; not a half half effort.

Thinking of starting Eldar - what should I be looking for?

SilverMK2 — GMT

Thanks for the comments dayve - I've not got the Eldar codex, so I didn't know that you can't put Harlequins on jetbikes - good call on converting jetbike units though.

That list sounds pretty cool - I will have to steal my brother's Eldar codex next time he comes over for a game (or just go to the GW store at their copy ) to have a look through the options/powers.

@ Mercer - As much as I am grateful for your offer of a potential sale, your list does not really have what I am after - dayve's list pretty much nails what I was after.

Though it will be good to have a game against your list - my brother usually nails me with his Eldar list until I get it into CC, then it is game over for most of his units

Re:Thinking of starting Eldar - what should I be looking for?

matthc — GMT

I agree with Mercer on the points he noted and the list he used.

In general certain Eldar units are better than others, due to the rise of other units in other codicies that negate certain Eldar units.

Units that are a must in nearly any 1500+ point game are
HQ:
Farseers with Fortune
Autarchs for the bonus to reserves

Elites:

Fire Dragons in Wave Serpents

Troops:

Usually a toss up between Dire Avengers or Guardian Jetbikes

I prefer

DA in Wave Serpents

Fast Attack:

Not really any good options here except for Vypers which really don't come into use until the 2000 point range

Heavy Support:

Prisms

Falcons with units inside of them

If you are interested Jetbike Seer Council is also still an good list, just not really as good as Eldar Mech Spam because of the widespread use of anti-psychic units.

I

Re:Thinking of starting Eldar - what should I be looking for?

dayve110 — GMT

mercer wrote:Unless you know my schedule Davey you'd probably want to know me and SilverMK2 have a game next week. So my words reflect on our upcoming game

If you want to say it's spam then fine, but what other dedicated transports have Eldar got? How else do you get Fire Dragon into range? The list you suggested has little chance against a real mech army; not a half half effort.

I can tell that you have a game planned mercer by your previous post I dont need to know your schedule when you post what your doing on a forum...
You do not have to mount up in dedicated transports to win a game (unless 'you' do, in which case keep going with the wave serpents) And you could always put that 5 man fire dragon squad in a Falcon, a falcon is more expensive, but more durable with holofields (that work in assault unlike the wave serpent field). And when the fire dragons are done you still have a gun boat left. So there is at least 2 options right there.
Also Silver asked for a harlequin army and also wanted warp spiders and jetbikes... that what he got, you can't do much with those as neither of them are 'real' anti-mech, although they can pull off a lucky kill if needed.

True the list i suggested would proberly do badly against mech, but it would crush other armies, you cannot make an army that will definetly take on all comers. You could make an army that stands a decent chance against most, but there will always be a set-up that will out manouvre yours, or just have to much shooting, units, or combat monsters for you to deal with.

Thinking of starting Eldar - what should I be looking for?

SilverMK2 — GMT

Dayve's list still leaves 500 points to add in some anti-mech for a 2000 point list, so it is not all doom and gloom against rhino rush and other mech spam armies.

Any suggestions as to something that would fill those 500 points with reliable anti armour? Preferably something long ranged so that it gives my more mobile elements more time and space to zoom about and take apart the stranded meaty contents.

Thinking of starting Eldar - what should I be looking for?

dayve110 — GMT

SilverMK2 wrote:Dayve's list still leaves 500 points to add in some anti-mech for a 2000 point list, so it is not all doom and gloom against rhino rush and other mech spam armies.

Any suggestions as to something that would fill those 500 points with reliable anti armour? Preferably something long ranged so that it gives my more mobile elements more time and space to zoom about and take apart the stranded meaty contents.

As it is the Falcons can move 6" and fire out 3 S8 shots each. If they move 12" thats still 2 S8 shots each. Against an army with not that much mech you stand a decent chance at blowing up any light vehicles.

You could get more shining spears, the exarch star lance is a short range S8 lance weapon that hits on a 2+. Wth their ability to JSJ and the EML plasma blast causing pinning you can keep an enemy unit out of the game for a turn, if the enemy refused to be pinned then hit and run with he spears.
Add a Wraithlord. resilient at T8, any shots at him arn't hitting your falcons, BS4 is good and he can fire on the move. If the enemy gets too close you can equip him with two flamers, fire them off then charge in, only S5+ can harm a wraithlord so feel free to charge into most standard units. Also if the enemy fail to kill him hes S10+2D6 against vehicles and the wraithsword lets him re-roll missed hits, so thats one dead tank.
A unit of guardians wouldn't go amiss as they can bring in another heavy weapon, and claim objectives, keep them in cover and throw in an embolden warlock with spiritseer (to help keep mr wraithy in check) if any tanks get close to the guardians, the singing spear is S9 against vehicles (short range lascannon that you can use in close combat aswell) The platform can also move and fire.

Wraithlord - sword, EML, 2x flamers = 125
Shining spears - same as before but 4 men = 192
One more shining spear for the original unit = 35
11x guardian + EML warlock with embolden, singing spear and spiritseer= 147

Total = 499

The Wraithlord can be converted to look like a harlequin or in a dramatic, agile pose, google it, there are some nice conversions out there.
The spears can be converted again as before.
The guardians... well... give them robes and a few harlequin type items and they could be some sort of black libary clerk or harlequin in training...

--------------

Well thats one option that sticks with the theme, themed armies are usually more fun to play than mix and match 'these units are the best' armies.

Thinking of starting Eldar - what should I be looking for?

SilverMK2 — GMT

I've seen some of the Wriathlord conversions and would be keen to add one to the army. And more jetbikes = a happy Silver.

And the guardians to camp objectives frees up the rest of the army to ride around and have some fun.

Have to say that I'm impressed

Re:Thinking of starting Eldar - what should I be looking for?

mercer — GMT

dayve110 wrote:
mercer wrote:Unless you know my schedule Davey you'd probably want to know me and SilverMK2 have a game next week. So my words reflect on our upcoming game

If you want to say it's spam then fine, but what other dedicated transports have Eldar got? How else do you get Fire Dragon into range? The list you suggested has little chance against a real mech army; not a half half effort.

I can tell that you have a game planned mercer by your previous post I dont need to know your schedule when you post what your doing on a forum...
You do not have to mount up in dedicated transports to win a game (unless 'you' do, in which case keep going with the wave serpents) And you could always put that 5 man fire dragon squad in a Falcon, a falcon is more expensive, but more durable with holofields (that work in assault unlike the wave serpent field). And when the fire dragons are done you still have a gun boat left. So there is at least 2 options right there.
Also Silver asked for a harlequin army and also wanted warp spiders and jetbikes... that what he got, you can't do much with those as neither of them are 'real' anti-mech, although they can pull off a lucky kill if needed.

True the list i suggested would proberly do badly against mech, but it would crush other armies, you cannot make an army that will definetly take on all comers. You could make an army that stands a decent chance against most, but there will always be a set-up that will out manouvre yours, or just have to much shooting, units, or combat monsters for you to deal with.

Re:Thinking of starting Eldar - what should I be looking for?

Dashyl — GMT

ELFZILLA!!!!

HQ
Avatar. Well, he IS a MC.
Farseer, Runes of Warding, Runes of Witnessing, Spirit Stones, Doom, Fortune, Singing Spear

Elite
3 x 3 Wraithguard, Spiritseer with Spear/Destructor.

Troop
2 x 10 Guardian Defenders, Warlock w/ Conceal, Scatter Laser
1 x 10 Guardian Defenders, Warlock w/ Conceal, Shuriken Cannon
2 x 10 Guardian Defenders, Warlock w/ Embolden, Missile Launcher

Heavy Support
3 x Wraithlord, Flamer x2, Bright Lance, Wraithsword

This army was designed by Stelek and you can read his full article here

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Stelek's_Eldar_Army_Analysis#HQ_3

It gives alot of insight into eldar armies

Re:Thinking of starting Eldar - what should I be looking for?

Inquisitor_Syphonious — GMT

Dashyl wrote:ELFZILLA!!!!

HQ
Avatar. Well, he IS a MC.
Farseer, Runes of Warding, Runes of Witnessing, Spirit Stones, Doom, Fortune, Singing Spear

Elite
3 x 3 Wraithguard, Spiritseer with Spear/Destructor.

Troop
2 x 10 Guardian Defenders, Warlock w/ Conceal, Scatter Laser
1 x 10 Guardian Defenders, Warlock w/ Conceal, Shuriken Cannon
2 x 10 Guardian Defenders, Warlock w/ Embolden, Missile Launcher

Heavy Support
3 x Wraithlord, Flamer x2, Bright Lance, Wraithsword

This army was designed by Stelek and you can read his full article here

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Stelek's_Eldar_Army_Analysis#HQ_3

It gives alot of insight into eldar armies

I might have to laugh you off of dakka...

SilverMK2 wrote:I've seen some of the Wriathlord conversions and would be keen to add one to the army. And more jetbikes = a happy Silver.

And the guardians to camp objectives frees up the rest of the army to ride around and have some fun.

Have to say that I'm impressed

Wraithlords are amazing if modelled outside of the normal positions.

As you like jetbikes, I would take them in one of these four configurations:

3 Jetbikes (cheap scoring unit, keep in reserves until late game)

4 Jetbikes + 1 Shuriken Cannon
Warlock on Jetbike w/ Embolden + Spear (cheap, yet effective active jetbike squad)

6 Jetbikes + 2 Shuriken Cannons (nice and shooty, no warlock encourages you to not suicide bomb them)

6 Jetbikes + 2 Shuriken Cannons
Warlock on Jetbike w/ Embolden + Spear (As expensive as you want to get with these guys, cheap~ish and effective)

Re:Thinking of starting Eldar - what should I be looking for?

Dashyl — GMT

<3 you to Inquisitor_Syphonious

Re:Thinking of starting Eldar - what should I be looking for?

Inquisitor_Syphonious — GMT

Dashyl wrote: <3 you to Inquisitor_Syphonious

Nothing against you, I just have an unnatural loathing for some people that have been mentioned thatI can't get in to.

Thinking of starting Eldar - what should I be looking for?

Danu — GMT

SilverMK2 wrote:Dayve's list still leaves 500 points to add in some anti-mech for a 2000 point list, so it is not all doom and gloom against rhino rush and other mech spam armies.

Any suggestions as to something that would fill those 500 points with reliable anti armour? Preferably something long ranged so that it gives my more mobile elements more time and space to zoom about and take apart the stranded meaty contents.

I'm quite new to this but at this point level surely you'd do well to invest in more scoring units?
I'm thinking Pathfinders: Great objective sitters and annoying as hell with the ability to pop big guys from afar and pin units to give your slogging Harlies the space they need to get into the action.
Rangers kinda fit with the Harliquin fluff too don't they?

Thinking of starting Eldar - what should I be looking for?

SilverMK2 — GMT

Well, there are 3 troops choices in the proto-list as it stands, 1 guardians squad to sit on my own objective and pop transports/armour at range, and 2 jetbike squads to fly around and harass units before (hopefully) grabbing objectives late in the game.

The rest of the list is designed to either kill transports, or kill the things that were formally in transports. The whole idea is to stop the enemy from advancing much beyond their deployment area by destroying any mobility they have and then using the Eldar's zoominess to keep units out of harms way while whittling them down.

The two 5 man Harlequin squads are in transports, so they can be dropped off close to (hopefully) pinned or separated squads to get stuck into CC.

The 10 man squad on foot is a bit of a problem, but they are fairly rapid - they ignore terrain and have fleet, they can run through cover to the other side of the board. I plan to give the enemy other, more "important" targets to try and shoot at as well.

Although you are correct - rangers would make a good addition to the army.

Re:Thinking of starting Eldar - what should I be looking for?

focusedfire — GMT

I know they are not true Eldar but current rumors have the Dark Eldar getting Harlequins of some form. Might be worth it to wait and see if they just re-release the same harlequins or if that give them some of the DE's New Jetbike goodness.

As to ideas, while Harlie themed Wraithlords or War Walkers would look awsome I don't know if they would fit int a mobility based list.

While not the most practical, if you want something very different, very fast and very hard on your opponents eyes you could team them up with Swooping Hawks.

Probably should just go with Vipers

Something like this:

Jetseer(solo)

Jetseer(solo)

Harlie x6

Harlie x6

Jetbike x6

Jetbike x6

Jetbike x6

Vypers

Vypers

Falc

Falc

Still like the idea of hawks but don't see it being efficient

Thinking of starting Eldar - what should I be looking for?

wuestenfux — GMT

If you want a themed army based on Harlequins, then you should look for the following models:

Farseers (as Shadowseers)
Autarchs (Greater Harlie)
Harlies
Pathfinders, eventually, DA and Guardians (as Mimes)
Wraithlords
Vypers
Shining Spears (Harlies on jetbikes)

Thinking of starting Eldar - what should I be looking for?

SilverMK2 — GMT

I was thinking of using the guardians/jet bikes as being from Lugganath craftworld (I love orange and black), but integrated with the Harlies a bit (so they would have intricate designs on their jetbikes as well as a few modded sets of armour and helmets etc).

They seem to be most closely associated with each other in the limited fluff I have seen.

Though I was also thinking of having them as Yme-Loc Eldar, as the Lugganath craftworld appears to want to run away, and grey and orange is also cool (plus I want to have a Harlie titan for Apoc)

Edit: I have a thread in the swap shop if you have any Eldar you wish to trade for Orks

Re:Thinking of starting Eldar - what should I be looking for?

Dashyl — GMT

Haha no worries Inquisitor_Syphonious, i just think elfzilla is an interesting idea if you can move the entire force as a moving castle. Just my opinion

Re:Thinking of starting Eldar - what should I be looking for?

Inquisitor_Syphonious — GMT

I have no problem with elfzilla...

Alright, I am not contributing at this point, and will shut it.

Trust me, if it was free for me, and I wasn't lazy, I would send you my 22+ older edition harlequins. I hate those models, and the current models. I like two at most, one being the (heavenly) shadowseer. (current)

Thinking of starting Eldar - what should I be looking for?

SilverMK2 — GMT

Haha, thanks Inquisitor

I quite like the sculpts, but the ones I am not so keen on (or multiples of the same pose) will be converted, so it is not such an issue for me