<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Vampire Counts vs Warriors of Chaos 2000pts 8th ed"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/93.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Vampire Counts vs Warriors of Chaos 2000pts 8th ed
Vampire Counts 2000pts

Lords
Manfred von Carstien 490pts
Black Periapt

Heros
Vampire 150pts
Avatar of Death
Helm of Commandment

Core
30 Ghouls 240pts

30 Skeletons 260pts
Full Command

Corpse Cart 75pts

Special
20 Grave Guard 335pts
Great Weapons
Full Command
Banner of the Barrows

Rare
Varghulf 175pts

5 Wraiths 275pts
Banshee



Warriors of Chaos 2000pts

Lords
Khorne Lord 365pts
Mark of Khorne
Shield
Chaos Rune Sword
Favour of the Gods
Juggernaut

Heros
Sorcerer 226pts
Level 2
Conjoined Homunculus
Blood of Tzneetch
Deaths Head
Mark of Nurgle
Chaos Steed

Core
12 Chaos Warriors 222pts
Extra Hand Weapons
Full Command

30 Marauders 180pts
Shields
Full Command
Mark of Slaanesh

5 Marauder Horsemen 110pts
Throwing Axes
Shields
Full Command

Special
5 Knights 280pts
Full Command
Mark of Khorne

5 Knights 280pts
Full Command
Mark of Nurgle

Rare
Warshrine 130pts

Hellcannon 205pts


We excitedly rolled for our first 8th edition battle and got a 6, which is the watch tower. We rolled 6, pieces of terrain, and using what we had available, we placed:
The watch tower in the middle,
A mysterious river running long table edge to long table edge slightly to the right of that
A temple of skulls on the far left
Some blazing barricades length ways along the table, closer to one table edge
A mysterious forest in in top right corner
A sigmarite shrine in the bottom right corner

Deployment
Apone won the roll and set up 12 warriors in the tower.

My delpoyment from left to right was: Skeletons opposite the temple of skulls, Ghouls and Corpse Cart opposite the blazing barricades, Grave Guard opposite the Tower, Varghulf across the river on the left of the shrine, Wraiths on the other side of the shrine out of sight of the hellcannon. Manfred went in between the corpse cart and grave guard and the vampire was behind the skeletons.

Apones delpyment opposite me was: Hellcannon in the top left corner, Nurgle Knights with Sorcerer opposite the Temple of Skulls, Khorne Knights with Lord opposite the blazing barricades, Marauders opposite the Grave Guard, Warshrine opposite the tower, Horsemen next to the river.

Vampires T1
Ghouls and Corpse Cart move up to defend the blazing barricades. Grave Guard move up to the tower, but dont charge (in hindsight they should have charged, but i dont think it made much difference). Vampire joins skeletons. Wraiths march towards the tower and the varghulf marches towards the horsemen. Wraiths aren't in range for shooting. In magic Manfred tries curse of years and gaze of nagash on the warriors, but both are dispelled. He does manage to get off doom and darkness. The Vampire tries to raze some zombies in front of the khorne knights but fails. Corpse cart uses miasma of deathly vigor to give the ghouls, grave guard and itself ASF.

Chaos T1
Khorne Knights pass frenzy test. Both Knight unit more near the barricades, but dont charge. Marauders and warshrine move near the tower. Horsemen turn to face the varghulf comming up the flank. Sorcerer casts fleshy abundance on the warriors in the tower, giving them regenerate (4+). He tries to cast rot gorious rot, but that is dispelled. Hellcannon fires at the ghouls, scores a direct hit and kills 12! Warshrine rolls 'eye is closed' for the warriors

Vampires T2
Grave Guard charge the warriors in the tower. Varghulf charges marauder horsemen through the river (which turns out to ge a river of blood), who stand and shoot with throwing axes, causing a wound. Manfred moves to get a better view. Skeletons move towards temple of skulls. Wraiths move towards the watch tower. In magic Manfred casts soulblight on the warriors in the tower (-1 S & -1T), Vanhels on the grave guard, Winds of Undeath killing a warrior, a horseman, a knight from each unit, a marauder and a chaos dwarf (unfortunately I didnt have any spirit host models). Vampire raises three ghouls back. Corpse cart tries miasma but fails.

In combat the varghulf takes a wound then thunderstomp kills the horsemen. The warriors in the tower kill two grave guard but lose four in return dispire regenerate (rerolling 3s to git with grave guard is very powerful) . The test at -5 (-3 from doom and darkness, lost combat by 2) and flee. Grave Guard move into the tower.

Chaos T2
Khorne knights charge ghouls and corpse cart. Marauders charge grave guard in the tower. Nurgle knights try to charge skeletons, but fail. Warriors continue to flee due to doom and darkness. Warshrine turns to face the varghulf. The nurgle sorcerer casts fleshy abundance on the marauders in casts rot glorious rot with IF thanks to the blood of tzneetch. It kills 1 skeleton, 5 ghouls and does a wound to the corpse cart. He then rolls 4 on the miscast table, wounding himself and killing a nurgle knight. unfortunately he doesnt get sucked into the realm of chaos . The hell cannon fires at the skeletons and scores another direct hit, killing 10!

In combat the marauders and grave guard beat on each other a but bit not much happens. The khorne knights slaughter the ghouls and the corpse cart, but forget to reform to face the tower.

Vampires T3
I decide that the varghulf would lose to the unhurt warshrine in combat, so it moves round to near the marauders instead. Wraiths move near the tower. Skeletons forget to charge the knights. Manfred moves next to the tower to set up both units of knights for purple sun, which kills a knight from each unit and finishes off the sorcerer. He then casts curse of years on the khorne knights, killing another, and vanhels on the grave guard. Summon undead horde is dispelled though. Invocation still raises three grave guard back (I rolled 9 power dice this turn, plus two extra from manfred and then got some back from purple sun). Wraiths scream at the warriors and they lose 3.

In Combat the grave guard beat the marauders in combat and because there is not steadfast in buildings they break and flee an inch.

Chaos T3
The warshrine charges the tower and the three nurgle knights charge the skeletons . Marauders fail to rally (Apone rolled a 10) and flee a further three. The warriors also continue to flee. The khorne knights turn to face manfred and the tower. Doom & Darkness and Curse of Years are dispelled in the chaos magic phase. The hellcannon fires at the wraiths, misfires and rolls a 6, so the shot scores at hit and uses the large blast marker, killing two wraiths. The hellcannon is unable to fire for the rest of the game though. The warshrine gives itself +1 armour save.

Combat sees the warshrine kill a few grave guard but lose a wound. The vampire kills a nurgle knight in a challenge. The rest of the knights fluff thier attacks and lose to static CR and subsequently flee. Skeletons persue but cant catch them.

Vamps T4
(Here we came upon a problem. I wanted to charge the wraiths into the warshrine, but since it was ingaged in combat in the tower, I couldn't. The book mentions that you cant have multiple assaults in buildings so did we play this correctly?). Varghulf charges the marauders, who flee but are caught and eaten. The wraiths move round the warshrine. Manfred moves out of line of sight on the khorne knights. The skeletons move towards the hell cannon. Manfred tries to cast summon undead horde, but it fails. The other vampire Raises and invokes a unit of 13 zombies infront of the hell cannon. The wraiths scream at the khorne knights and kill one. The warshrine loses another wound and kills a few more grave guard.

Chaos T4
The Khorne knights charge the wraiths, the hellcannon charges the zombies, the warriors rally and the nurgle knights flee off the table. In combat the warshrine takes another wound and kills some more grave guard. The khorne knights wipe out the wraiths and the hellcannon kills all the zombies. The knights reform to face the varghulf. We roll for game lenght and it continues.

Vamps T5
The skeletons charge the hellcannon. The varghulf turns to face the knights. Manfred moves out of sight of the knights and then casts summon undead horde bringing back all the lost grave guard. The vampire raises some more skeletons back. Fate of Bjuna fails to wound the chaos lord in the knights.

In combat the warshrine finally loses its last wound. The skeletons cause no wounds to the hell cannon, who chomps on a few in return.

Chaos T5
The khorne knights charge the varghulf. The Chaos warriors try to carge manfred but fail. In combat the vampire does and wound to the hellcannon, but is then eaten by it. The chaos lord outright kills the varghulf and they reform to face the tower. The game continues again.

Vamps T6
Manfred stays out of sight of the chaos lord. The grave guard are raised to full strength and the skeletons get some models back too. Fate of Bjuna causes one wound to the chaos lord. The hell cannon eats some more skeletons.

Chaos T6
Two remaining knights and the lord charge the grave guard in the tower. Warriors try to charge manfred but fail again. The chaos lord turn the grave guard champion into a pile of dust in the challenge. The chaos knights kill another four, but also die. The grave guard crumble to 10 models. Hell cannon continues to munch on skeletons. the game keeps going.

Vamps T7
Manfred moves towards chaos warriors. Summon undead horde brings the grave guard back to full strength and raises a few more skeletons. Magic does no damage to the warriors. Chaos lord kills five grave guard but is finally chopped down. Hellcannon chomps the skeletons (who have yet to cause a wound!) down to 5 models.

Chaos T7
The 6 remaining Warriors charge the tower and kill a few grave guard but are wiped out. Apone conseeds.


Analysis
Our discussion afterwards suggests that forgetting to reform the khorne knights to face the tower was a losing mistake. If he had got those knights in a turn earlier when he had more models the grave guard would have bitten it. It seems that large cheap units are terrible for assaulting buildings. You gain no bonus for ranks or banners and cannot be steadfast, so small elite units like chaos warriors or monstrous infantry are much better for it. We're not sure if you cant assault models fighting in buildings and any clarity that people can offer would be much appriciated.

Manfred von Carstien is a beast. Casting summon undead horde on consecutive turns won me the game. Knowing 14 spells is also excellent when you generate +2 power dice. I was lucky that Apone had no shooting, so I could keep him on his own and move him out of sight of anything scary that may charge him (namely that khorne lord). Against an army with shooting he would have to be confined to a unit and lose a lot of the mobility that made him so effective this game.

I'm terrified of hellcannons. S5 stone throwers seem all sorts of awsome. Combining with the fact that its also an unbreakable monster that causes terror and gets thunderstoms leads me to believe that every chaos army should have at least 1. I'm trying to convince Apone to drop the Warshrine for another.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309142/1803190.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309142/1803190.page GMT Vampire Counts vs Warriors of Chaos 2000pts 8th ed
Thanks for the battle report. Always good to read more 8th. My first game of 8th was the Watchtower too. It's a weird one. Not only does the building start in assault range, but the attacker *knows* he's going first.

In answer to your question about the warshrine- the warshrine shouldn't have still been in combat. If a unit fails to wipe out or break the defenders in a building assault, it is moved 1" back away from the building. So it wouldn't have been in combat after the first turn. This helps defenders as they only have to be in combat every other phase.

One more thing- building defenders are always steadfast. So- the warriors that started in the building should have tested at -2, not -5. Doom and Darkness was a strong move, though. Makes it possible to actually kick people out of a building!

Again, thanks for the report- hope I was able to answer that one for you to your satisfaction.

Post again when you get the chance!

RZ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309142/1803345.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309142/1803345.page GMT Vampire Counts vs Warriors of Chaos 2000pts 8th ed

And ditto on Red's building clarification. I actually have a question about buildings for you Red: how many models can you put in a building? Is this just decided beforehand? Or is it infinite unless specified? The watchtower can only have a unit of 20 stuffed in it to begin, so if those 40 marauders won an assault, could they occupy the tower? My skaven for example have no unit that isn't rat ogres or monsters under 30, so I'm assuming they can't jam in there?

Thanks for the report Reg!

- Salvage]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309142/1804545.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309142/1804545.page GMT Vampire Counts vs Warriors of Chaos 2000pts 8th ed
"Each building can hold a single unit of any size and any characters that have joined it..."

So although the watchtower only gets an initial garrison of 20 or less core infantry, it seems it can be occupied by more than that. We also assumed that it couldn't start with any characters, since no specific provision is made for them in the deployment rules for Scenario 6.

As a side note, the building section does start off with a note talking about treating some very small or odd shaped buildings as impassible. I imagine you could do something similar and put size caps on occupation for others.

Although I'm not crazy about the watchtower scenario, I do like it in play better than on paper. And I think there's something to be said for being prepared to play any of those scenarios. I know that's easier said than done for many armies (Skaven are a good example), but I like the idea of having that extra factor for list building.

Will you include a unit of core infantry at 20 or less? If you have to assault a building, what are you going to use? Just another thing to roll around in your head.

RZ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309142/1804864.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309142/1804864.page GMT Re:Vampire Counts vs Warriors of Chaos 2000pts 8th ed http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309142/1804933.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309142/1804933.page GMT Vampire Counts vs Warriors of Chaos 2000pts 8th ed
Red_Zeke wrote:@Boss: Page 126 says:

"Each building can hold a single unit of any size and any characters that have joined it..."
Ahhh, no wonder I couldn't find other mentions of occupant size ... Thanks RZ For the watchtower explanation too, I did think it was capped by its starting 20 rule. I've now played watchtower twice, and won the first game by having my HPA mash the tizz warriors inside the tower out then chase most of the chaos boys down, and the second by having my vermin lord run over and touch the tower on turn 6, after the brets (or rather double no-missing trebs, and a unit of questers running the flanks on my entire army) had killed everything else but the HPA & VL.

But I do appreciate the objective + random game length combo, ala 40k. Also the entire army deployment deal, wish there were more like that since it speeds things up so much and avoids "but I didn't get first turn" complaints. Which no guess templates + lore of death increase

- Salvage]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309142/1804966.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309142/1804966.page GMT Vampire Counts vs Warriors of Chaos 2000pts 8th ed http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309142/1805092.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309142/1805092.page GMT