<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Uses for Stormtroopers?"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Uses for Stormtroopers?
Also, a friend of mine suggested that instead of fielding them as one ten-man unit, I split them off into two five-man teams, each with one melta. I guess this would be good for multiple tank-busting, but what about killpoints? Is the trade-off worth it?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1811607.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1811607.page GMT Uses for Stormtroopers? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1811617.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1811617.page GMT Uses for Stormtroopers? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1811638.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1811638.page GMT Uses for Stormtroopers? GW's site. I would post a link, but you can't get the file unless you sign in and register anyway. Both types of stormtroopers are identical, but I think the ally rules accidentally got cut from the DH codex, so use the witchunter one instead.

You can also just take 5 IG stormtroopers with 2 meltas for 105 points. It's 35 points more than the same unit in inquisitorial STs, but they can deepstrike on their own to kill tanks (and get a reroll).

I sometimes use a small unit of 5 IG stormtroopers with no upgrades to infiltrate and block opponent's infiltrators or scout moves, or outflank them to rapid-fire a rear echelon unit with AP3 firepower. But it's not the most efficient use of points in the codex.

In general the IG stormtroopers are a bit too expensive, and the overcosting just gets worse the bigger the unit you take.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1811683.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1811683.page GMT Uses for Stormtroopers? I'm not a guard player but I play against a very strong guard player pretty frequently and when that codex first came out we discussed the unit in great detail. my opinion based on the times I saw them in action and on theory hammer is that even against MEQ they aren't very good. It's because they cost about the same as the things they're out to kill, and because they tend to get separated from the rest of the army. At best it's a suicide mission on which you'll break even. At worst it's just a suicide mission.

I'd advise you not to run them as allied inquisitorial storm troopers. Your basic guardman at 4 points a man is a much better buy than the inq storm trooper at 10.

AF


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use them as veterans. the models are sick.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
use them as veterans. the models are sick.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1811685.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1811685.page GMT Uses for Stormtroopers?
And Abaddon, I've had people tell me the same thing. But that's why I deepstrike then in the Valkyrie. Maybe it's expensive if it fails, but with the Valkyrie drawing fire off them, firing missile pods and such while they tank-bust, it can lead to them actually living. Sometimes.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1811712.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1811712.page GMT Uses for Stormtroopers?
Guardsmanius wrote: Are they really worth the points?

No.
Guardsmanius wrote: what's a good way to use them?

As far as I can tell, their points are absurdly inflated because of their special operations (they're basically forced to buy one, which gets rolled into the price). As such, the only way to make them worth their points are to really use the heck out of the doctrine they choose.

Recon: MTC is useless, but this also lets them outflank. Since they're really fragile, you're talking about one of two things. Either you outflank with a couple of meltaguns right into some armor hanging out on the side, or you outflank with plasma guns right into some marines that are hanging out by the side. I don't think I'd ever use this special op, as the ONLY point to outflanking stormies is to do some surprise damage. Your opponent can easily mitigate this, and you need to have an astropath to make this worthwhile.

In any case, outflanking power blobs costs a surprisingly similar amount of points for much more stuff.

Airborne: This lets you run the old suicide melta stormies. It's so expensive now, I don't know why anyone would want to do it. Basically, you have to play just insanely aggressive with your deepstriking and hope that 2 meltaguns are going to cut it.

Sneaky: It's recon... except it has a vague chance of pinning... woohoo...

The problem is that recon and behind enemy lines are terrible and airborne basically encourages you to waste hellguns. That you are forced to pay for one of these terrible options makes them simply not worth taking. Perhaps in the next codex, they'll have the option to take stuff or leave things behind so that you don't have to take bloated points squads if you didn't want to. Until then...

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1811739.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1811739.page GMT Uses for Stormtroopers? well try it out. I really believe in learning by doing.
If it works it works. alot of times just looking at stats doesnt tell the whole story...
AF]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1811742.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1811742.page GMT Uses for Stormtroopers?
In any case, the rules for the Inquisitorial Storm Troopers are epic. I mean, assuming I don't field the Veteran and just get five guys, fifty points for five guys with BS 4, Hellguns and Targeters isn't too bad. Not saying I'll do that, five guys die quick... even then, the 130 points for the Vet and two meltas is a far cry from the 200-ish points for normal ones. And assuming I still use the Valkyrie technique, that's a pretty good point saver. Thank you!

EDIT: Wah? I can give my Veteran a Combi-Melta. 145 points for three meltas? I FRIGGIN' LOVE THE WITCH HUNTERS.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1811755.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1811755.page GMT Uses for Stormtroopers? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1811756.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1811756.page GMT Re:Uses for Stormtroopers?
as for Stormtroopers, i personally use Vets instead. if you really must use them, stay cheap.
5 man squad, 2 meltas or plasmas. DS them, infiltrate them or outflank with them.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1811764.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1811764.page GMT Uses for Stormtroopers? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1811777.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1811777.page GMT Uses for Stormtroopers?
I wonder how hard it is to convert the Punisher into a weird-looking Battle Cannon?

And I'd prefer to not just field them as Veterans. I already GS'd a bolter onto the Sergeant. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1811778.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1811778.page GMT Uses for Stormtroopers?
Guardsmanius wrote:Yeah, I hear yah. The Punisher looked pretty cool too. Then I used it. I should've magnetized it.

In any case, the rules for the Inquisitorial Storm Troopers are epic. I mean, assuming I don't field the Veteran and just get five guys, fifty points for five guys with BS 4, Hellguns and Targeters isn't too bad. Not saying I'll do that, five guys die quick... even then, the 130 points for the Vet and two meltas is a far cry from the 200-ish points for normal ones. And assuming I still use the Valkyrie technique, that's a pretty good point saver. Thank you!

EDIT: Wah? I can give my Veteran a Combi-Melta. 145 points for three meltas? I FRIGGIN' LOVE THE WITCH HUNTERS.
You can do that with ordinary IG vet squads. 100 points for the ten guys and three meltaguns, and if you really want carapace armor the squad adds up to 130 points. You lose Ap5 and targeters but gain krak grenades and 15 points. Nothing special unless you're using a small squad or really really love the models. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1811802.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1811802.page GMT Uses for Stormtroopers?
Although my sergeant is epic. Bald of awesome.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1811813.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1811813.page GMT Uses for Stormtroopers?
Guardsmanius wrote:Although my sergeant is epic. Bald of awesome.


Makes you wonder what % of an army tends to be because the models are awesome rather than the unit is worth its points.

Of course that is why the Vendetta is so good. Great model, great for the points.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1811886.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1811886.page GMT Uses for Stormtroopers? bs, same armour save, and an extra meltagun for 130 points is so much better.

I HATE storm troopers.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1811895.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1811895.page GMT Uses for Stormtroopers?
Citizensmith wrote:
Makes you wonder what % of an army tends to be because the models are awesome rather than the unit is worth its points.


Well, if you factor in the Stormies, and Punishers, and Commissars (Non-Blob Commissars), Yarrick if the army is tank-heavy or shooty...

....25 percent? Maybe a little more?

And to Jaon, then that means I'll just be taking the tiny five-man squads for tank busting. But I've got a twelve-hour gaming stretch tomorrow, so I'll have ample time to test this stuff out.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1811905.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1811905.page GMT Uses for Stormtroopers? I'm pretty confident that what you'll find is that storm troopers, while ok, are outclassed by other options in your book..... but field testing is always best.
AF]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1812102.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1812102.page GMT Uses for Stormtroopers?
Ailaros wrote:
Guardsmanius wrote: Are they really worth the points?

No.
Guardsmanius wrote: what's a good way to use them?

As far as I can tell, their points are absurdly inflated because of their special operations (they're basically forced to buy one, which gets rolled into the price). As such, the only way to make them worth their points are to really use the heck out of the doctrine they choose.



Airborne: This lets you run the old suicide melta stormies. It's so expensive now, I don't know why anyone would want to do it. Basically, you have to play just insanely aggressive with your deepstriking and hope that 2 meltaguns are going to cut it.



:-) Well, playing the other armies I do (Wolves and FT) I have to admit the drop on top of the Land Raider with the 2 Meltas is a reasonable thing to do... In our local meta I think most of the Marine forces use one or more Raiders, or something that HAS to die quickly... I'll be giving them a try, might be a big disapointment like so many other things in the codex, but it might work out well..]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1812167.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1812167.page GMT Uses for Stormtroopers? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1812245.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1812245.page GMT Re:Uses for Stormtroopers? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1812680.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1812680.page GMT Uses for Stormtroopers?
they can have an awesome effect on a game, taking out a critical devistator squad or tank or some such is what they are good at, they are what you use to take out the scariest thing on the board, or to lead assaults etc since they can actualy survive being carged by a 5-man marine squad (unlike veterans).

also, if you look at how the points break down, it ends up not looking like so much.

5 pnts for guardsman
+2 for BS4
+3 for 4+ save, (this is were vets stop.)
+2 for AP3 and hellpistol
+2 for krak grenades
+2 for the abillity to outflank, infiltrate, move through cover, cause pinning tests and re-roll scatter for DS
total 16 pnts per model

so all those doctrines cost 2 pnts per model. the only ambiguous values are for the AP3 and doctrines which i put as equal.

so for what you pay for you get a good amount of gear, their main weakness is that they are still S3 T3 and WS3.

at any rate, if they get overly separated from the rest of the army they are toast, like every other unit in the codex apart form Marbo (and even he is a one shot wonder 90% of the time). I learnt this the hard way trying to take out full BT squads and wondering why they died.

what roll they play depends on who you play against, personaly i like to use them in conjunction with a mechanised advance to turn my opponents flank. It will surise you how much difference wiping out one Devistator squad can screw your opponents defence.


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I think people have problems with stormies at least initialy is that they expect them to be as good as marines. there not supposed to be, the fact is that if they costed 1 or 2 points less they would be up there with Valks and Vends in the over-powered/ under-priced category]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1812687.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1812687.page GMT Uses for Stormtroopers? IG codex as a whole, I think the intention was for stormtroopers to fill a hole in the list, and I think they do that. Since veterans can no longer infiltrate (without Harker), nobody can outflank or deepstrike without a transport &/or character anymore, STs give an army without valks the ability to put some guys on the other side of the table to do important things that need to be done. Especially deepstriking, which no other non-transported unit can do anymore.

I completely agree that Valkyries + vets make a lot of the functions that stormtroopers would otherwise serve redundant. But if, like me, you don't use valks--and do use tactics that benefit from small annoyance units like with 18th century light infantry--then they're an option. I could use ratlings for the same purpose for cheaper, though.

It's also valuable to be able to choose their special ability at deployment, and never underestimate the ability of krak grenades to cheesebomb a stationary tank sitting too close to the short edge of the table. And the fact that they have lasgun, laspistol and ccw means they can occasionally jump an isolated, weak unit in the backfield and defeat them in HtH.

But like I said, I think they're overcosted. About 4 points less, and they'd be worth it. And they should pay less for special weapons, since they give up their AP3 gun to get a special.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1812867.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1812867.page GMT Uses for Stormtroopers? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1813417.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1813417.page GMT Uses for Stormtroopers?
dumplingman wrote:use them as normal guardsmen and make an entire army out of them cause the models are really cool looking. (thanks what I did!)

+1. An all kasrkin guard army would look awesome and a half on the field
Lord Commander Phyrus wrote:also, if you look at how the points break down, it ends up not looking like so much.

5 pnts for guardsman
+2 for BS4
+3 for 4+ save, (this is were vets stop.)
+2 for AP3 and hellpistol
+2 for krak grenades
+2 for the abillity to outflank, infiltrate, move through cover, cause pinning tests and re-roll scatter for DS
total 16 pnts per model

The problem is that you MUST take ALL of these upgrades. If you could pick and choose to actually specialize the squad for it's mission, they might be worth taking.

For example, let's say I could throw away everything and then re-buy BS4 and +2 for "behind enemy line"s for 9 points a model. Outflanking 8 BS4 AP3 weapons and 2 plasma guns (with the chance to cause pinning) for only 120 points might actually be worth taking, honestly. As it is, you're forced to buy a bunch of other junk which makes said configuration 190 points, which makes it prohibitively expensive.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1813485.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1813485.page GMT Uses for Stormtroopers?
Squad of 5 w/ 2 x meltas and deepstriking aggresively. Any other configuration is too expensve and can be trrumped by a much cheaper unit (normally Vets).

L. Wrex]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1813506.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1813506.page GMT Uses for Stormtroopers? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1814090.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1814090.page GMT Uses for Stormtroopers?
70 points for a 5 man squad with 2 plasma guns is pretty good as vendetta cargo(10 guardsmen with a plasma guns and a plasma pistol are 80, 10 vets with 2 plasma guns are 100). ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1814609.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1814609.page GMT Uses for Stormtroopers?
I've seen it said before that they complement foot lists more than mech lists, as mech brings it's own style of mobile firepower.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1814931.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1814931.page GMT Uses for Stormtroopers?
...now to go buy 50 Conscripts. 80$ for the snap-togethers! Yaaaay!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1816633.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1816633.page GMT Uses for Stormtroopers?
If your going down that route, buy normal PIS and add a Commisar. More weapon options, more heavy weapon options, more reliable and better points value.

Conscipts only really work if you purchase Chenkov and 'SITNW' at which point your spending a ludicrous amount of points to buff a generally inefficient squad. No special weapons/Sergeants and Ld5 make Lycaeus a sad panda :(

Seriously, just stick with combined PIS.

L. Wrex

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1816757.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1816757.page GMT Uses for Stormtroopers?
Thankfully, they use the same models, so you don't have to kick yourself if you already bought stuff.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1816769.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1816769.page GMT Re:Uses for Stormtroopers? 5 Storm Troopers
- 2 x Meltagun
- Upgrade to Sergeant
+ Chimera Transport
- Multi-laser
- Heavy flamer
- - - > 160 Punkte
Take the scout doktrine, place the chimera as close to the enemy as the deployment allows, make you 12" scout move (and launch your smokes if you're going 2nd). Now move another 12", turn the chimera around, disembark 2" and be happy as the enemy tank should be right into melta range. Nice trick if you're going 1st as you'll get an effective 32" melta range in the first turn from the point you DEPLOYED. A nice way to screw the enemy as most people believe that all you'll do with mech-stormtroopers is outflanking.
While the Deepstrike-Suizide tactic is a great way to earn the points of the squad I prefer to have the extra chimera in my list so the squad won't be rendered useless if I'm suddenly up against an ork horde or something like that.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1818486.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1818486.page GMT Re:Uses for Stormtroopers?

Alright. Stormtroopers.
The most MOST underrated unit in the old and new IG codex.

OK 16 points for 1 guy with a veteran profile seems awkward. But:
You are able to build 5 man squads. So you have 105p for a squad with 2 meltaguns. 10 Veterans with 3 Meltaguns cost the same. You win one melta and troop choice on the veterans side.
But you lose the armour, you lose the outflanking/scouting/deep striking ability and 5 men are better to hide from enemy sight than ten, and you get ap3 weapons (which is more fun than really useful...)

so if used properly stormtroopers are far harder to take out than veterans. They get the cheaper transport, so outflanking stormtroopers are in fact cheaper than outflanking veterans inside a valk. And the most important thing: The veterans have to disembark to do damage the stormtroopers dont have to do that. So they can be kept safely inside the chimera, are not very vulnerable to the explosion of their transport and to bolterfire, so you can keep them in the open.

In my opinion the stormtroopers are the better choice for the experienced player. I dont like meltaveterans at all, if I want damage I take the ccs which is expendable an has 1 meltagun more and the order to make it reliable. If I want scoring units I dont use meltas, they have to be used in 6" range mostly against vehicles (transports) to be effective, which is most dangerous to be countered to death by the contents. If I want disruption I use stormtroopers because they attack after the enemy has decided where to attack you and the either destroy the most important tank from the enemies offensive or the preparing artillery in the enemies back.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1819111.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1819111.page GMT Uses for Stormtroopers? Dev squads, long-ish ranged vehicles, Destroyer-lords, Tau commanders, etc.

they're also pretty awesome against low Ld things like Tau for infiltrating forward, poping up and pinning an entire unit 1st turn.

you can sit here all day saying, "but if you do that it'll get kiled by such-n-such" thats when you use a different skill. even if you think they are over-costed per model, you are effectively paying for the abillity to adapt your deployment and unit function depending on your opponent.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1819559.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/309657/1819559.page GMT