<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Proper BA Mech Movement + Vindi or Pred"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Proper BA Mech Movement + Vindi or Pred BA Mech list for a while and tweaking it with experience and help from everyone here. I think I am ready to start fine tuning the list more and learning more about strategies for proper placement. A lot of times on my opponents first turn (if they go after me) they are able to get side shots on my Baal Preds. I was wondering how do you guys move then around the table to give the RBs and Baals the best cover and angle to give the enemy less shots at the side. Baals are SO easy to pop with side armor...

I'm thinking some people maybe put RBs in the way? Is that what most people do? I've read on a lot of tactics of other BA mech players that they move forward in a way that makes it extremely difficult to get side armor shots on their Baals and Vindis etc. I couldn't find any articles on this.

Tips? Advice?

Also with my list below, could I get some experience BA Mech players to convince me on what to do for my last 2 choices. I want either 2x "Annihilator" Predators that are Regular Preds with Las Cannon Sponsoons or 2x Vindicators.


TLDR:
1) I read people moving in such a way that they do not allow their enemy to get side shots on their Preds/Vindis/Baals. How do you do this?
2) With my list below would you suggest 2x Annihilator Preds (Reg Pred with Las Sponsoons) or 2x Vindicators? Why?


Librarian
Assault Squad
Meltagun
Transport: Razorback
TL Assault Cannons

Assault Squad
Meltagun
Transport: Razorback
TL Assault Cannons

Assault Squad
Meltagun
Transport: Razorback
TL Plas/ Las

Assault Squad
Meltagun
Transport: Razorback
TL Plas/ Las

Baal Predator
Heavy Bolters

Baal Predator
Heavy Bolters

Honour Guard
Meltagun x 4
Drop Pod

+

2x Vindicator
or
2x Regular Pred + Las Sponsoons]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1879290.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1879290.page GMT Proper BA Mech Movement + Vindi or Pred HB sponsons on the Baals, it makes them slower and if you're just going to move 12" anyway, then why take the sponsons? Also they also draw more attention to them.

I'm not sure about dropping around 200 pts of your army (Honor Guard and DP) behind the enemy with little to no support.

I'd take the Preds because you may find yourself in a situation where it is in your best interest to just sitback and shoot the enemy rather then close, while the vindcators will make you move forward in order to be of any use.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1879367.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1879367.page GMT Proper BA Mech Movement + Vindi or Pred DoA makes this very safe and reliable) that way you can delay their entry into the game a little bit and use them as instant hard hitting fire support wherever you need them. To be honest though, I feel like a deepstriking unit of Honor Guards is just out of place in a list like this.

I'd take the Predators over the Vindicators in your list. It doesn't seem aggressive enough to want to close with the enemy like Vindicators do (because of their range). You could also use a couple more Lascannon/Autocannon shots to help deal with enemy armor in the early turns. I'd try to find room to fit in a third one to be honest.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1879477.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1879477.page GMT Proper BA Mech Movement + Vindi or Pred AV 13 vehicles then move them side by side to maintain the following pattern: \|/
This provides the tanks with a larger front angle.
Razorbacks with lascannons can be deployed behind so that they get 3+ cover saves.
Razorbacks with assault cannons should be placed on the sides of the above pattern so that they are obscured. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1879703.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1879703.page GMT Proper BA Mech Movement + Vindi or Pred
Ok so the majority vote is gooing towards annihilator predators. Guess that's the best choice then lol.

What would you guys suggest as an alternative to my anti av13/14 landraiders and stuff if I should remove my drop pod squad of meltas? I did them like that because it is probably the most reliable way of taking out av14 in 1 go...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1880427.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1880427.page GMT Proper BA Mech Movement + Vindi or Pred TL lascannon turret.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1880439.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1880439.page GMT Proper BA Mech Movement + Vindi or Pred http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1880480.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1880480.page GMT Proper BA Mech Movement + Vindi or Pred
wuestenfux wrote:Well, in terms of movement, if you have three AV 13 vehicles then move them side by side to maintain the following pattern: \|/
This provides the tanks with a larger front angle.
Razorbacks with lascannons can be deployed behind so that they get 3+ cover saves.
Razorbacks with assault cannons should be placed on the sides of the above pattern so that they are obscured.


If your opponent can see your turret, they can see a non-insignificant part of the vehicle, therefore they can see your hull (by GW's shoddy definition) and you do *not* get a 3+ cover save.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1880488.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1880488.page GMT Proper BA Mech Movement + Vindi or Pred
willydstyle wrote:
wuestenfux wrote:Well, in terms of movement, if you have three AV 13 vehicles then move them side by side to maintain the following pattern: \|/
This provides the tanks with a larger front angle.
Razorbacks with lascannons can be deployed behind so that they get 3+ cover saves.
Razorbacks with assault cannons should be placed on the sides of the above pattern so that they are obscured.


If your opponent can see your turret, they can see a non-insignificant part of the vehicle, therefore they can see your hull (by GW's shoddy definition) and you do *not* get a 3+ cover save.


While this is true the argument can be made that if you only see the turret you dont have a "shot" at the actual tank. They technicly see the hull but have no access to hitting ythe hull]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1880529.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1880529.page GMT Proper BA Mech Movement + Vindi or Pred BRB gives you specific permission to target the turret of a vehicle.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1880535.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1880535.page GMT Re:Proper BA Mech Movement + Vindi or Pred http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1880613.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1880613.page GMT Proper BA Mech Movement + Vindi or Pred TBH) you get significantly more firepower.

Other than Baals, I like "autolas" preds for HS preds. A friend of mine runs mech BA with 2 autolas preds and two baals with HB sponsons to great effect.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1880626.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1880626.page GMT Proper BA Mech Movement + Vindi or Pred
I personally run as I stated 2 Baal Preds 1 with just a Flamestorm cannon for those tricky marine players and a TL Aoutocannon Baal with Heavy Bolters to rush up fast early on and provide that much needed mid feild support and then to retreat it as nesseccary to stay with my tactiacl advantage.

I then add in 2 normal preds with Lascannon spaonsons to do the same exact thing. you would be surprised on the effectiveness of this. though in a 1500 point game i am not sure how I would run them likely the same way. . . ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1880686.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1880686.page GMT Proper BA Mech Movement + Vindi or Pred http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1880697.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1880697.page GMT Proper BA Mech Movement + Vindi or Pred

Anyone else have advice on movement tank placement?

\|/ this formation sounds about right since it spreads the front av13 best.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1882569.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1882569.page GMT Proper BA Mech Movement + Vindi or Pred ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1882702.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1882702.page GMT Proper BA Mech Movement + Vindi or Pred
wuestenfux wrote:Predators all the way. They can move and fire all weapons.


So can a Baal Pred. Remember 6" fire all, 12" fire 1]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1884530.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1884530.page GMT Proper BA Mech Movement + Vindi or Pred
I like the \|/ movement of AV 13 so you have a wider frontside 13 armor.

(My list will now also have 3 MM LandSpeeders by the way)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1885533.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1885533.page GMT Proper BA Mech Movement + Vindi or Pred
Lysenis wrote:
wuestenfux wrote:Predators all the way. They can move and fire all weapons.


So can a Baal Pred. Remember 6" fire all, 12" fire 1

Right, this is the way fast vehicles can move and fire. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1885851.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1885851.page GMT Proper BA Mech Movement + Vindi or Pred
As for Land Speeders with MM, they are ok but I would take a Baal Pred over a LS ANY day.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1886932.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1886932.page GMT Proper BA Mech Movement + Vindi or Pred LS with multimelta and heavy flamer.
LS can fill gaps in the gun line and can be a nasty surprise to the enemy. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1887033.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1887033.page GMT Proper BA Mech Movement + Vindi or Pred FTW. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1887377.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1887377.page GMT Proper BA Mech Movement + Vindi or Pred
MekanobSamael wrote:Fast Autolas Preds FTW.

In fact, I fielded Predators at several occasion and was always annoyed that they are pillboxes.
If they move, they lose some of their shooting effectiveness.
But BA Predators are so much better: 6'' maneuverability is usually sufficient to get better LoS. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1887395.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1887395.page GMT Proper BA Mech Movement + Vindi or Pred TL AC/ Las Sponsoon Preds.

Hopefully this will take care of my Land Raider problem. Have a wall of AV 13's to keep my Land Speeders safe for a turn. Then move then up and shoot down the Land Raider with 3 MM.

I'm debating if I should use 2x MM on each Land Speeder giving me a total of 6. That way I am assured a Land Raider going down. We usually play on 48" tables and deploy @ 12". So after 1st turn I should easily have 12" for the 2d6 by moving just 6" closer to the LR, that way I can fire both MM's.

OT Q: If I equip a Land Speeder with a MM + Heavy Flamer could I fire both after moving 12"? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1889358.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1889358.page GMT Proper BA Mech Movement + Vindi or Pred
OT Q: If I equip a Land Speeder with a MM + Heavy Flamer could I fire both after moving 12"?

No, if a Speeder moves 12'' it can shoot a main and all defensive weapons which are S4.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1889422.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1889422.page GMT Proper BA Mech Movement + Vindi or Pred
For normal SM, its quite obvious. The predator with lascannons. Its expensive as hell and not as durable as you might want it to be, but space marines need that reliability in their list, a Vindicator has the chance to asplode the toughest of things, but it also has the chance of epic fail. Predator eliminates that.


Blood angels on the other hand A) can get anti tank where they need it fast as hell and B) have fast vehicles.

So the questions are
1. why waste the fastness of a predator on long ranged weaponry?
2. Are the vindicators fast enough to get to where they need to be in time?
3. Do you have the adequate infantry to deal with a horde?
4. Do you have the adequate response time to deal with really threatening enemy vehicles?

Look into these questions, and you will find your answer.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1889663.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1889663.page GMT Proper BA Mech Movement + Vindi or Pred I didn't think so, since its s5 but someone told me I could...liars!

@Jaon: Thanks for the assist in helping.

1) I know it seems like a waste on fastness for a long range Pred but to me I like that ability to move 6" and still fire both my weapons or 12" and fire whichever I need the most atm.

Which brings up another question. If I move 12" and fire my Las Sponsoons I can fire both right? Do they count as 1 or are they seperate and I can only fire either my left or right sponsoon?

2) Vindicators on the boards we play with will for sure always be able to fire at whatever I want in time. We most of the time..play on 48" boards so starting at 12" on both sides I can move 1" and hit my targets already.

3) I do not have adequate infantry to deal a horde but I deal wit horde mostly by all my TL AsC and Baal Preds TL AsC + HBs.

4) This was my biggest problem. I now have a squad of 3x Land Speeders with MM's.

Hopefully that solves the problem. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1890294.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1890294.page GMT Proper BA Mech Movement + Vindi or Pred http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1890777.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1890777.page GMT Proper BA Mech Movement + Vindi or Pred 1) I know it seems like a waste on fastness for a long range Pred but to me I like that ability to move 6" and still fire both my weapons or 12" and fire whichever I need the most atm.

Moving 12" is only effective in a few situations.

1) Getting to your enemy asap but with 48" lascannons it is almost pointless.
2) Getting away from your enemy, when your enemy comes calling for an assault you want to run it away
3) Finding cover (easy enough to figure out)

Remember that your sponsons have a huge firing arc (in BRB for more detail) so there is not much that you cant hit with both sponsons at one time. That is unless you want to protect your armour.

3) I do not have adequate infantry to deal a horde but I deal wit horde mostly by all my TL AsC and Baal Preds TL AsC + HBs.

A little secret on that. BA is not made to handle infantry on a mass scale. Orks and Tyranids are your greatest threat (in that order) That is why Flamestorm Baals are so important IMHO

4) This was my biggest problem. I now have a squad of 3x Land Speeders with MM's.

I would rather spend the points on a Flamestorm Baal but I will say I am inexperienced with LS
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1893533.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1893533.page GMT Proper BA Mech Movement + Vindi or Pred
Lysenis wrote:1) I know it seems like a waste on fastness for a long range Pred but to me I like that ability to move 6" and still fire both my weapons or 12" and fire whichever I need the most atm.

Moving 12" is only effective in a few situations.

1) Getting to your enemy asap but with 48" lascannons it is almost pointless.
2) Getting away from your enemy, when your enemy comes calling for an assault you want to run it away
3) Finding cover (easy enough to figure out)

Remember that your sponsons have a huge firing arc (in BRB for more detail) so there is not much that you cant hit with both sponsons at one time. That is unless you want to protect your armour.

3) I do not have adequate infantry to deal a horde but I deal wit horde mostly by all my TL AsC and Baal Preds TL AsC + HBs.

A little secret on that. BA is not made to handle infantry on a mass scale. Orks and Tyranids are your greatest threat (in that order) That is why Flamestorm Baals are so important IMHO

4) This was my biggest problem. I now have a squad of 3x Land Speeders with MM's.

I would rather spend the points on a Flamestorm Baal but I will say I am inexperienced with LS


How would you deal with LRs? Just curious. Do you have any dedicated anti av13/14? The guys I play with a lot have Land Raiders + Ven Dreds which are a paint for me to pop if I had my army list + Flamestorm baal over LS.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1893667.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1893667.page GMT Proper BA Mech Movement + Vindi or Pred MEQ environment with heavy mech lists, then melta weapons are you best friend.
Flamers are just for horde control.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1893675.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1893675.page GMT Proper BA Mech Movement + Vindi or Pred
syypher wrote:How would you deal with LRs? Just curious. Do you have any dedicated anti av13/14? The guys I play with a lot have Land Raiders + Ven Dreds which are a paint for me to pop if I had my army list + Flamestorm baal over LS.


There would be a problem. I would be running Assault squads with jump packs for that with infernus pistoals.

I normally run some thing like this:

HQ
Libarian w/ Storm Bolter, powers vary

Elite
Furioso Dread w/ Blood Talons + heavy flamer
Libarian Dread
Sang Priest x2

Troops
5 man Assault w/ Infernus Pistol, one infernus is with the sgt (named the Inferns Squad)
10 man Tactical Squad w/ Plasma Cannon + Meltagun and Rhino (combat squaded normally with melta in Rhino)
10 man Tac Sq w/ Multimelta + Melta Gun and possibly a Rhino

Fast Attack
Baal Pred w/ TL AC + HB
Baal Pred w/ Flamestorm Cannon

Heavy Support
Predator w/ Lascannon Sponsons
Predator w/ Lascannon Sponsons

That is how I run things. I dont usually play mech because I dont need to honestly. I use terrain to my advantage, I plan as I go, and I always watch all possibilties (former chess player so I look at all moves and what could happen)

I would not run 2 Baals that have TL AC I do not think you need to put the points on that but meh.

Remember that if your opponets are running Ven dreads and LR that means that there are less points that they have to spread around. Ven Dreads are the same as your Fuiroso's so AV 13 is not so bad. Lascannons need a 3 to hit and 4 to glance and 5 to pen that means you should pen 1/3 of the time, that means that having 4 lascannon shots will be penetrating atleast once a turn. not to mention that you have the same advantage. AV13 everywhere but the rhinos so he is weak there.

For LR I send the in the Infernus Squad. With only a D6 scatter you should be good on range more times then not.


wuestenfux wrote:Well, if you play in an MEQ environment with heavy mech lists, then melta weapons are you best friend.
Flamers are just for horde control.


While this is true when you can run up the TL AC Baal and the FS Baal, pop a transport with the TL AC Baal and then flame the guys inside with little effort and no save except invul you will do ok. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1893845.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1893845.page GMT Proper BA Mech Movement + Vindi or Pred TL AsC as more versatile as I can pop even the largest transports if I get 6's for rending. +4 TL shots = *drool*]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1893941.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1893941.page GMT Proper BA Mech Movement + Vindi or Pred
syypher wrote:I'm thinking of converting one of my preds to Flamestorm because I have so much anti vehicle now but I see the TL AsC as more versatile as I can pop even the largest transports if I get 6's for rending. +4 TL shots = *drool*
I agree as well but the flamestorm for me is the marine killer of the group. No cover and AP3 cant ask for better.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1894836.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/314026/1894836.page GMT