<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Hammer Heads, what are they good for?"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Hammer Heads, what are they good for? BS 4 S10 Ap1 gun is nice but broadsides do the same thing for half the price and they are more accurate...

Is it just the versatility of having the option of a S6 Ap 4 large blast template? Is it the survivability of an AV 13 vehicle with a 4+ cover save? Is it the ability to move 6" and fire the Rail gun/Template?

I have a Hammerhead gathering dust and need a reason to run it over 2 broadsides...

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1946884.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1946884.page GMT Hammer Heads, what are they good for? HH isn't 'bad' thou. I think you've covered all the important points ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1946974.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1946974.page GMT Hammer Heads, what are they good for? raw vehicle killing power, though, the Broadsides do the job a bit better.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1946988.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1946988.page GMT Hammer Heads, what are they good for?
Just wondering, normally I've seen/used 2 teams of 2 broadsides and 1 hammer head, or 2 hammer heads and one broad side team of 2.

Points you play at, and how much armor vs foot infantry is also a factor in which is better. (higher point values usually means more tanks to kill, which means more broadsides)

At 1500 and lower, a pair of hammer heads is probably all you need for tank busting and template dropping.

Considering that FOC are often a bigger consideration when building tau (elite and HS are filled quickly) I wouldn't worry about points as much as effectiveness.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1947004.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1947004.page GMT Hammer Heads, what are they good for? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1947022.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1947022.page GMT Re:Hammer Heads, what are they good for?

although the Railhead is most useful for the Pieplate and not the solid shot. infantry will get shredded.

in larger games and if you have a heavy MEQ local meta the Ionhead is better as 3 Str6 AP3 shots will drop Marins and their pesky Rhinos pretty quickly while the Broadsides do the anti-vehicle work.


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1947097.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1947097.page GMT Hammer Heads, what are they good for?
3 broadsides
Ion Head
Rail head.

A lot of ork, nid and guard players in our area, and I find that that mix works really well. Ion head does great on light vehicles and some harder inf. Also does wonders on TMC. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1947112.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1947112.page GMT Hammer Heads, what are they good for?
Blast template

6 str 5 ap5 shots from burst cannons (Target lock as well to split fire)

Ability to move 12 and shoot the railgun (multitracker)

All for about 170 points.

Broadsides can't come close to hammerheads in terms of anti-infantry firepower and mobility. Hammerheads can't come close to Broadsides in terms of sustained anti-tank firepower. Personally, I use both in every list, but I never play games smaller than 1500 points.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1947129.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1947129.page GMT Hammer Heads, what are they good for?
Hammerheads provide a mobile railgun, which allows side shots, use of cover, etc. The Submunition is ok, but should only be used when there are no vehicles to pop. Even popping a rhino is better than shooting at a squad in cover most of the time.

As for broadsides, they provide more raw firepower but with reduced mobility (even with ASS), are far more vulnerable to small arms and assault, and can't tank shock or move to contest.

Broadsides are still the best anti-tank, but ain't nothing wrong with a hammer head and 4-6 broadsides in 1850.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1947164.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1947164.page GMT Hammer Heads, what are they good for? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1947179.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1947179.page GMT Re:Hammer Heads, what are they good for? MEQ hunting.

1-2 Ionheads and fill the rest up with Broadsides.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1947244.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1947244.page GMT Hammer Heads, what are they good for? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1947350.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1947350.page GMT Re:Hammer Heads, what are they good for? MEQ killing. People see the AP3 on it and think MEQ killer, but with cover it only kills .83 MEQs a turn on Average (Actually it kills .83 of anything with less than a 2+ save in cover), a Submunition shot that covers 3 marines kills... .83 MEQ . Catch 6+ under the template and it outperforms the Ion Cannon with no cover.

Plasma on Crisis Suits does everything the Ion Cannon does, but it can't do what the Hammerhead Railgun can. And in those games when your broadsides have been tied up on turn 2 by FNP Blood Angels jump troops, or they failed their pinning test after losing a drone to IG Barrages, it's your Railheads that will continue to knock down the heavy targets.

Add to that how supierior the railhead is against any army without 3+ saves, and it's hard to justify the Ion Cannon for anything except TMC (And the submuniton will typically be far more useful against 'nids overall) or to shave a few points off.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1947696.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1947696.page GMT Hammer Heads, what are they good for?
DarkHound wrote:I wouldn't be too sure about that Polonius. I remember someone talking about using Ionheads in conjunction with suicide melta teams to complete their anti-tank requirements for less points.


I'm sure it's been tried, I just don't think you can rely on crisis suit suicide melta for tank hunting. Deepstriking melta is available to a lot of armies, and it's hardly used in any of them. Drop podding multi-meltas are used, and even deep striking landspeeders with MM, but deep striking meltas are a risky proposition.

I think broadsides are better, but the Hammerhead at least adds something new in terms of mobility and resilience. The Ionhead can be useful, but even against rhinos the Railgun is better,and how often are you really shooting at 3+ saves in the open?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1948063.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1948063.page GMT Re:Hammer Heads, what are they good for? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1948167.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1948167.page GMT Re:Hammer Heads, what are they good for? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1948301.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1948301.page GMT Re:Hammer Heads, what are they good for? BS.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1948317.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1948317.page GMT Hammer Heads, what are they good for?
Polonius wrote:
DarkHound wrote:I wouldn't be too sure about that Polonius. I remember someone talking about using Ionheads in conjunction with suicide melta teams to complete their anti-tank requirements for less points.


I'm sure it's been tried, I just don't think you can rely on crisis suit suicide melta for tank hunting. Deepstriking melta is available to a lot of armies, and it's hardly used in any of them. Drop podding multi-meltas are used, and even deep striking landspeeders with MM, but deep striking meltas are a risky proposition.

I think broadsides are better, but the Hammerhead at least adds something new in terms of mobility and resilience. The Ionhead can be useful, but even against rhinos the Railgun is better,and
how often are you really shooting at 3+ saves in the open?


I do it in every game and it works out fine for me. But then I have Ninja Tau so that's my armies plan, yeah I lose a suit here and there every now and then but most the time they get in and get the job done. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1949610.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1949610.page GMT Hammer Heads, what are they good for? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1950729.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1950729.page GMT Hammer Heads, what are they good for?
SoloFalcon1138 wrote:targets?

Would you mind elaborating on that statement a bit more ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1953063.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1953063.page GMT Re:Hammer Heads, what are they good for?
Grey Templar wrote:Forcing them to use marker lights to drop cover is good i suppose rather then bumping BS.


IIRC they work out to do the same thing if the weapon doesn't allow armor saves. Increasing your hits by 1/6 does the same thing as reducing their saves by 1/6. The choice really just determines how extreme your variance is likely to be. Been awhile since I've done the math.

Anyways, Ion heads are effectively S7, something that Tau can get elsewhere, on better platforms. Why waste your HS unit on it, when it A: doesn't kill meqs that well, less than 1 meq per round is NOT efficient. B: doesn't kill transports very well. Needing a 4-5 to GLANCE the most common transports AV is not a good weapon strength unless you can spam it. Which ion heads only get 3 shots.

So the things Ion heads are supposed to be able to kill are A: rhinos, and B: marines. Plasma crisis suits wound on 2s, with no armor, even on termies. Missile pod suits have 2 shots per at S7, which can take out rhinos. They are both cheaper and can be taken in larger numbers. You can even fire both weapons at once, so you get 2 plasma and 2 missiles per suit.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1953634.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1953634.page GMT Hammer Heads, what are they good for? lol. A good player will charge those broad sides fast. Something that shouldn't happen to a hammer head if your a good player!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1953657.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1953657.page GMT Hammer Heads, what are they good for?
theblessing8386 wrote:is this a serious question lol. A good player will charge those broad sides fast. Something that shouldn't happen to a hammer head if your a good player!


Broadsides have 72 inch range. There is no reason why they should be getting charged if you deploy correctly. Bring a kroot or even FW bubble for them, they should only get charged by lucky deep strikes or outflanking units (or snikrot kommandos)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1954976.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1954976.page GMT Hammer Heads, what are they good for? SMS system to thump some infantry.

But 5th ed nerfed its ability to move 12 and shoot everything. Combine that it is now hit on rear armor in HTH, it just isn't what it used to be. Broadsides are by far the better value in our HS slots now.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1955295.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1955295.page GMT Hammer Heads, what are they good for?
QuietOrkmi wrote:Lately I have been confused as to their purpose... A BS 4 S10 Ap1 gun is nice but broadsides do the same thing for half the price and they are more accurate...


you hit the nail on the head. there's no reason to run a hammer head when you could have had a pair of broadsides. railguns are not, alas, the cannons of doom that they were when that book 1st came out. cover and low rate of fire means that 1 long range shot with even an str 10 ap 1 gun isnt worth all that much. the submunition is so so... I definitely wouldnt pay to bring one. AF]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1955453.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1955453.page GMT Hammer Heads, what are they good for? HS. In the games I've played I've never needed more then the 3 and I've done well about 80% of the time.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1955456.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1955456.page GMT Hammer Heads, what are they good for?
theblessing8386 wrote:is this a serious question lol. A good player will charge those broad sides fast. Something that shouldn't happen to a hammer head if your a good player!

There's no need to charge something that never gets to shoot. A better player will just keep his few units worried about Broadsides out of their sight lines. They can't move and shoot.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1955561.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1955561.page GMT Hammer Heads, what are they good for? LR rolls up and pukes berzerkers all over your troops.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1955777.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1955777.page GMT Hammer Heads, what are they good for?
My kroot bubble keeps your from derp striking close enough to get melta shots off, so no just glanced it and your suicide unit dies horribly to plasma. Your LR full of angry guys gets parked by a railgun, and your guys walk.

See, I can do it too.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1956426.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1956426.page GMT Hammer Heads, what are they good for? AT gun.

What else can they do? Well they can be converted to Devilfish with magnets.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1956712.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1956712.page GMT Hammer Heads, what are they good for? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1956872.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1956872.page GMT Re:Hammer Heads, what are they good for?
I have dubbed my Railgun Hammerhead the S.S Useless. I would never take it if I thought I would never fight anything that the Template would be useful for. That is all.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1956977.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318123/1956977.page GMT