<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Opinion on the cyclone"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/27.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Opinion on the cyclone
Cyclone seems like a nice model with it's huge versatility, medium ranged guns that make lots of attacks, yet are still capable of hurting heavies. Double open fists, ability to place aoe dmg templates on the field...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1951948.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1951948.page GMT Opinion on the cyclone
I've used a pair of them a few times now with eCaine. The double handed throw is an option that is really good to have finally without having to take the THead. Overall though, it's not a primary jack. It's a good support jack that is good at alot of things but not great at anything. I've also put one on the dude to get d6 thunderbolt shots off and that's a very viable thing for a control scenario.

At least one usually gets out of the case most of the time now for me.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1952031.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1952031.page GMT Re:Opinion on the cyclone
Covering Fire allows you to place templates on the table to block charges, and funnel infantry to areas of the board you want them to go. Covering Fire requires line of sight, and can be placed anywhere on the table within the range of the weapon. This is important- cast Snipe on the Cyclone, and you can now place those templates out to 14". POW 12 has a better then average chance to kill most single wound infantry. It'll probably do a point or two against most warjacks and warbeasts as well.

When it comes to shooting, you're looking at 2d3 shots- 2-6 shots. Good range of 10", and POW 12 is excellent. Considering all the range buffs (Snipe, Fire Group) and ranged attack buffs (Deadeye, Temporal Acceleration) Cygnar has access to, the Cyclone can fit into just about any list. Combined with a good RAT of 6, this warjack can do some serious damage against infantry and warcasters. Remember, boosted POW 12 can kill most warcasters.

While shooting is what this warjack excels at, it's not that bad in melee. He has a great MAT 7, good armor, and only mediocre P+S 14 on his fists. But wait, what is this? It has two open fists?!?! Only one other warjack in the Cygnar arsenal has two open fists, and it's the character warjack Thunderhead. With a STR of 11, his MAT of 7, the Cyclone should be able to pull off a Two Handed Throw with ease. Add the sheer amount of disruption available, and you can easily take out an enemy warjack for a turn. It's also great to see the look on your opponents' face as you declare the two handed throw to open up a charge lane to his warcaster.

The Cyclone is a great ranged warjack that shouldn't be underestimated in melee combat.

To answer the question about extra attacks: Strafe grants d3 shots from initial attacks. Initial Attacks are the base attacks a model gets without focus, spells, or feats. As soon as you make an extra attack, you are no longer making an 'Initial Attack'. Firing Squad (from Kara Sloan) grants an extra attack outside of a models' activation. In the case of the Cyclone, it's 1 shot.

Edited for Line of Sight comment. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1952069.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1952069.page GMT Re:Opinion on the cyclone
Tamwulf wrote:
The Cyclone is a great ranged warjack that shouldn't be underestimated in melee combat.


But it also shouldn't be counted on in melee. Unlike a jack like, say the Defender, you won't be able to stand up to other heavies even if you dump 3 focus on it. Marshalling it to a gun mage UA and using the special shots seems like the best use of the volume of fire, but it doesn't have that much hitting power and is really just infantry clearing in most cases which Cygnar doesn't have severe deficiencies at. It isn't bad, but it trades off almost all of its melee for some good, but not great, shooting. I guess the biggest compliment I could give to it is that it's OK, but a little pricey for a non-fighter.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1952252.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1952252.page GMT Opinion on the cyclone
This is important- cast Snipe on the Cyclone, and you can now place those templates out to 14".


I'm a bit hazy, but I don't think this works.
But I need to go home and get my book to be sure.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1952255.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1952255.page GMT Opinion on the cyclone http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1952406.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1952406.page GMT Opinion on the cyclone .

Striked out my inquiry.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1952558.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1952558.page GMT Re:Opinion on the cyclone
Plus while the cyclone has problems with arm 19+ targets, with three focus for boosted damage rolls, it tends to shred lighter targets with little difficulty.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1953048.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1953048.page GMT Opinion on the cyclone
This means that it can do one of the best power attacks in the game, the double handed throw. The DH throw is a pretty reliable way to toss another jack around, knocking over other jacks, doing damage, and even hopefully knocking over the enemy warcaster, or clearing a path to him.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1953115.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1953115.page GMT Opinion on the cyclone
EDIT **Disclaimer** This guy looks like the business. I own one myself, which is a conversion with the new bits on an old chassis so he fits in better with his Ironclad hulled brothers. I do use him from time to time, but...

The trouble is that the Cyclone is the EPITOME of Cygnaran warjack design. It has lots of cool abilities... (and pays for them!!!) Let's go through them now:

  • Two handed throw available!~
  • D3 POW12 shots per arm!~
  • Covering fire *action! - This is the one thing the Cylcone does that is awesome. What doesn't this do...! Covering fire can block around 8" of frontage with POW12 autohitting godness - pretty much killing any infantry... 12" if you add Ryan's mage storm! You can put it on your own guys who have already activated to kill guys its fighting in melee. Sure, your guy might die, but then they'll die too. If they move away, its free-strike time. It works great with heavy jacks using the run/engage/cover fire trick. It's even tastier if your heavy has reach!

    • Sadly, other than the sauciness that covering fire offers, warjacks will tramp straight through those templates and, it has almost no hitting power directed POW12s (read, not covering fires) and POW14 is pretty useless on targets that your typical heavy is expected to engage. Like most Cygnaran heavies, its ARM18 ensures that it really isn't very survivable against enemy heavies AND he loses a cover fire template when his arms get disabled. This is bad because his cover fire templates don't block LOS, so a sneaky commander might opt to rip off one of the Cyclone's weedy arms so that his infantry can march where you don't want them to.

    To further compound this problem, as he IS a heavy, and one with a good ability. So, despite a complete absence of hitting power... he's 9 points. 9 points of situational awesome, and 9 points of direct combat FAIL.

    Trouble is that the Cygnar arsenal is full of 9 point jacks such as:

    ROWDY. (This guy does everything, and is survivable on top of that.)

    Defender. Hitting harder, further when shooting, along with harder cortex frying smashing in melee... Bringing the hurt in the form of boosted POW15's from 16/20" away.

    Centurion, while somewhat maligned, is still more flexible as he's much hittier than the Cyclone. He suffers from being slow, but if you get him to the front, he also offers a nice 6" no walk past zone with reach, and with his *action polarity shield makes a nice no-charge-ARM21 speedbump.

    For another point, you could get Stormclad. This guy is a rockstar. He shoots, hits hard, has reach, and gets free focus from your mini-stormclad wannabes. You don't have to worry about enemy infantry if you killed them all with electroleaps!]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1953423.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1953423.page GMT     Re:Opinion on the cyclone
    Tamwulf wrote:Covering Fire requires no line of sight, and can be placed anywhere on the table within the range of the weapon.
    I'm afraid you're incorrect here. The template has to be centered on a point within Cyclone's LOS.]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1953699.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1953699.page GMT     Re:Opinion on the cyclone
    mazgier wrote:
    Tamwulf wrote:Covering Fire requires no line of sight, and can be placed anywhere on the table within the range of the weapon.
    I'm afraid you're incorrect here. The template has to be centered on a point within Cyclone's LOS.


    Indeed you are correct Sir! I was thinking of something else.

    I hate it when people say "Meh- it's too expensive!" about Cygnar Warjacks. ARM 18 is average for a heavy Warjack. When you throw in the fact that we have access to the excellent Arcane Shield, it's suddenly not so bad. The role of the Cyclone is anti-light armor. Why would you send it up against an enemy heavy warjack? Like I said, I'd use it to clog up a charge lane for infantry, or perform a two handed throw to clear up a lane.

    Other arguments: Don't consider anything in Cygnar in a vacuum. We have few, if any, models/units that are effective by themselves with no buffs from other models/units. Start thinking about the combo's you can use! A Defender has a very different role then a Cyclone. A Stormclad has a different role from a Defender or Cyclone. Ol' Rowdy is in a class by himself. He is one of those few models Cygnar posses that makes him good in every situation except one- he has no ranged attacks.

    The Cyclone appeals to my play style and the Warcasters I favor. He's not for everyone. It also depends a lot on what your local gaming scene is like. In my area, a lot of people favor infantry heavy armies. Somewhere else could be the exact opposite.
    ]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1953891.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1953891.page GMT     Opinion on the cyclone ARM 18-20 is I think the POW is more than sufficient to make jacks think twice (not particularly hard, mind you) about approaching. There's enough Snipe being passed around Cygnaran casters to play havoc with threat ranges, and arcane shield is more than available.
    It works well with most casters, performs reliably with Junior, marshals well to the ATGMO/sword knights/trenchers. The dual fists are under rated as a benefit. The aforementioned area denial is particularly useful - especially against armies like Cryx where one infantry could mean a Deathjack getting personal with your caster.
    I think the one thing it will do is tempt you to mismanage your focus. You'll be tempted to pour focus into it.]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1953945.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1953945.page GMT     Opinion on the cyclone
    ]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1954642.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1954642.page GMT     Re:Opinion on the cyclone
    Tamwulf wrote:I hate it when people say "Meh- it's too expensive!" about Cygnar Warjacks. ARM 18 is average for a heavy Warjack. When you throw in the fact that we have access to the excellent Arcane Shield, it's suddenly not so bad. The role of the Cyclone is anti-light armor. Why would you send it up against an enemy heavy warjack? Like I said, I'd use it to clog up a charge lane for infantry, or perform a two handed throw to clear up a lane.

    I hope you are kidding. If it is anything that Cygnar excels at, it is hitting stuff that has light armor. Vs one wound models up to ARM16, POW10s perform admirably, and Cyngar is literally awash in POW10-POW12s - from electroleaps to magelock pistols, long guns, military rifles, stormcalls, chain guns, hand cannons, storm glaives, electroleaps etc. I think that a Cygnaran general would be severly limiting themselves (to their detriment) by taking the Cyclone over other more flexible choices. For combatting light armor, instead of the Cylcone, I'd take ATGM w/ attachment (one point less) or ATGM with Black 13th (one point more). Every time. They have the same range, are more accurate, and while having less raw power in their shots - POW10s are more than enough to wreck most light armor. On top of that, their special fire-modes more than make up for the loss of cover fire. The only thing that the Cyclone has over infantry is that he's more durable. Trouble is that he's just one model, and he looses a lot of functionality as soon as his arms start getting disabled.

    With respect to the comment about arcane shielding the Cyclone... I find myself using that spell most often on something that I'm throwing into the teeth of my enemy. The Cyclone doesn't fill this role. Sure, you can put it on him... but to paraphrase Chris Rock - "You can drive with your feet too, but that don't make it a good idea." I think that while the flexibility to do so exists, I think that it would be a rare occurance.

    Tamwulf wrote:Other arguments: Don't consider anything in Cygnar in a vacuum. We have few, if any, models/units that are effective by themselves with no buffs from other models/units. Start thinking about the combo's you can use! A Defender has a very different role then a Cyclone. A Stormclad has a different role from a Defender or Cyclone. Ol' Rowdy is in a class by himself. He is one of those few models Cygnar posses that makes him good in every situation except one- he has no ranged attacks.

    Yes. Yes and Yes. Trouble is that the only thing Cyclone has that sets it apart from the mass infantry killing power that Cygnar has is - COVERING FIRE. The other Jacks opperate in areas where they are the go-to models if you want a certain role filled. The Cyclone, while a decent performer, is sitting in a role that is saturated. Neither his cost, nor his abilities are such that he is made an attractive choice. With his current rules, IMHO, he's always going to be a backup kind of guy.]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1955102.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1955102.page GMT     Opinion on the cyclone http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1955412.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1955412.page GMT Opinion on the cyclone
    Maybe its just thinking from a Cryx point of view. Its that same point of view that makes me less likely to find the ATGM a threat that isn't resolved by a feat or cheap infantry. I'm more impressed by it than a Centurion (nobody respects the hammersmith).



    ]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1957118.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1957118.page GMT     Opinion on the cyclone
    Oldgrue wrote:Dice-6 is still enough to pay attention to in volume. While a pristine warjack might not consider consistent (if light) damage a real threat it is going to be terribly fortunate not to be threatened by the Cyclone immediately afterward. Anything that has to cross the Cyclone to get into position is therefore at risk. There's a lot to be said for area denial. An assassination run that crosses the cyclone becomes a high-risk proposition.

    If you look at averages, what AV18 combat heavy 'jack is going to care about 4 points of damage from the Cyclone or 1 point of damage from running through the metal storm? Same goes for heavy multi-wound infantry. The only real melee threat the Cyclone is to a heavy is a DH Throw (P+S 14 is a joke). For a 9 point jack, it is not there to engage heavies, but infantry and light jacks.

    Bonechickens however need to run from it.


    Maybe its just thinking from a Cryx point of view. Its that same point of view that makes me less likely to find the ATGM a threat that isn't resolved by a feat or cheap infantry. I'm more impressed by it than a Centurion (nobody respects the hammersmith).

    Nobody is wrong then about the Hammersmith. He's excellent with both Nemos and bonded to eStryker. The Centurion pretty much impresses nobody anymore.
    ]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1957831.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1957831.page GMT     Opinion on the cyclone
    12thRonin wrote:
    If you look at averages, what AV18 combat heavy 'jack is going to care about 4 points of damage from the Cyclone or 1 point of damage from running through the metal storm? Same goes for heavy multi-wound infantry. The only real melee threat the Cyclone is to a heavy is a DH Throw (P+S 14 is a joke). For a 9 point jack, it is not there to engage heavies, but infantry and light jacks.

    Bonechickens however need to run from it.

    You really need to stack buffs with the Cyclone if you want it to be multi role. To be fair though, multi wound infantry still need to be cautious around Pow 12 covering fire -- most are arm 16 and will eat several points of damage on an average roll and die on a good roll.

    Regarding buffing, a Juggernaught might be just fine running within range of an unbuffed Cyclone, but if you can Rust and Harm the Juggernaught, those ranged attacks are going to hurt, especially if you threw some focus at the Cyclone first. Same deal in Melee, throw positive charge on a Cyclone and its looking fairly solid (like a higher mat Kodiak). Stack on one other buff and it will trash other jacks and beasts.



    Nobody is wrong then about the Hammersmith. He's excellent with both Nemos and bonded to eStryker. The Centurion pretty much impresses nobody anymore.


    The Cent is just a touch expensive (it probably should be 8 points) but its hard to argue with an Arm 24 heavy holding the line if you have Arcane shield on it. The big thing, I think, with the Cent is you really need a movement buff on it to get the most use out of it, so look at either Nemo or Kraye, and maybe Consider Darius for the repair option.]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1959273.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1959273.page GMT     Opinion on the cyclone
    Endgame wrote:Regarding buffing, a Juggernaught might be just fine running within range of an unbuffed Cyclone, but if you can Rust and Harm the Juggernaught, those ranged attacks are going to hurt, especially if you threw some focus at the Cyclone first. Same deal in Melee, throw positive charge on a Cyclone and its looking fairly solid (like a higher mat Kodiak). Stack on one other buff and it will trash other jacks and beasts.

    Cygnar is notoriously poor for buffs. The only two damage boosters that I can think of are positive charge and disrpution field. Which limits you to Darth or the pNemo. The debuffs from mercs are more available - but more often than not, Cygnar units have to stand on their own when dishing out the damage. Aside from that, its much better to be piling your buffs onto something hitty to make it more hitty rather than put it on something that has infantry level strength only to get it to low scale of heavy warjack hitting power.

    Much as I hate to admit it, I think the Cent is properly priced. Unfortunately. It's paying the +1 Arcane Shield Tax for expected ARM24. +1 POW on Reach crit Sustained with *action Shield seem to be the tradeoff for 2 medium weapons with beat back. Fair enough I suppose.]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1959877.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1959877.page GMT     Re:Opinion on the cyclone http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1960048.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1960048.page GMT Opinion on the cyclone
    12thRonin wrote: what AV18 combat heavy 'jack is going to care about 4 points of damage from the Cyclone or 1 point of damage from running through the metal storm? Same goes for heavy multi-wound infantry.


    Anything set up for an endgame. Cavalry can be written off. Multiwound infantry don't come through pristine. The AOE tends to be overlapped when multiwound infantry are on the field making this higher risk proposition.


    The only real melee threat the Cyclone is to a heavy is a DH Throw

    Which can be effectively disabling. Alternatively it could end up on its can in front of something that originally wasn't in place to take it apart.


    ...wrong then about the Hammersmith. He's excellent with both Nemos and bonded to eStryker.

    So, good with 2 and maybe a third (I can see better uses for eStryker's bond) is better than a toolbox? We'll have to agree to disagree and chalk it up to play styles.]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1960308.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1960308.page GMT     Opinion on the cyclone
    So, good with 2 and maybe a third (I can see better uses for eStryker's bond) is better than a toolbox? We'll have to agree to disagree and chalk it up to play styles.

    You mean he's excellent with half of the top tier casters, then yeah (and he's pretty good on eHaley as well) we'll disagree. Plus he's good with the chain attack at opening up assassination angles.

    If you will re-read above, you will see that I actually do like the Cyclone. It just has no business engaging heavies as you are wasting what it can do. You'll also see that I am a believer in the DH throw as a viable tactic. However, it is a support jack, not a main liner and has no business fighting heavies. The only time I ever shoot a Cyclone at one is if he's on the Dude and he's firing thunderbolts.

    If you are really counting on 4 points of damage on a heavy warjack to set up an endgame, I wish you luck.]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1961264.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1961264.page GMT     Opinion on the cyclone
    12thRonin wrote:If you will re-read above, you will see that I actually do like the Cyclone. It just has no business engaging heavies as you are wasting what it can do. You'll also see that I am a believer in the DH throw as a viable tactic. However, it is a support jack, not a main liner and has no business fighting heavies. The only time I ever shoot a Cyclone at one is if he's on the Dude and he's firing thunderbolts.

    Therein lies the problem. At 25, spending 9 points on a support heavy who while awesome at what he does, is way too much points such a situational model. Even at 35, I'd be hard pressed to pick him over infantry or one of his more flexible brothers. I'll second that adding him to the Dude is awesome - and what I usually do, but only really feasable at large points values as that's a hefty 17 point investment. He's a good fit after you have guys occupying all the neccessary offensive damage roles and have points left over for some disruption. I often add him at 50, and always add him at 100.]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1961701.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1961701.page GMT     Opinion on the cyclone
    keezus wrote:
    Cygnar is notoriously poor for buffs. The only two damage boosters that I can think of are positive charge and disrpution field. Which limits you to Darth or the pNemo. The debuffs from mercs are more available - but more often than not, Cygnar units have to stand on their own when dishing out the damage. Aside from that, its much better to be piling your buffs onto something hitty to make it more hitty rather than put it on something that has infantry level strength only to get it to low scale of heavy warjack hitting power.

    You've got lightning shroud on eNemo as well, and you never need to worry about armor when you've got siege on the table. Mix in Aiyana and Holt and / or Gorman and you have more than one way to get the cyclone to effectively P+S 16 on all casters, and 18 on 4.

    I completely disagree with piling buffs on the already heavy hitting targets -- there is really no reason to even drop positive charge on a Stormclad or Rowdy, let alone harming the target. Sure, you'll probably be rolling at dice +4, and you'll kill your target in 2 to 3 hits. Alternatively, you could just drop 3 focus on the Stormclad / Rowdy and you'll still kill your target and you could drop the buff on another jack to make it more viable multi roll.

    If you can entirely negate infantry with cyclones, then all you have to worry about is enemy armor. If you're running Siege or eStryker, who happen eat armor for breakfast, you're starting off in a really good situation.

    keezus wrote:
    Much as I hate to admit it, I think the Cent is properly priced. Unfortunately. It's paying the +1 Arcane Shield Tax for expected ARM24. +1 POW on Reach crit Sustained with *action Shield seem to be the tradeoff for 2 medium weapons with beat back. Fair enough I suppose.


    I think I'm going to break out the Cents with Darius again. Something about *action polarity shield mixed with Jack Hammer has me intrigued.]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1961876.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1961876.page GMT     Opinion on the cyclone
    If the Cent were 8 points, wouldn't he be almost an auto include? I think he's one of those models that gets hosed by the no half point. He's way too good at 8 and he's outclassed by everything else that's 9. Heck, take off the * from the polarity shield like it was in Mk 1 at 9 points. I think that would make him viable against the other 9 pointers.]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1961929.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1961929.page GMT     Opinion on the cyclone
    @ What points value do you run that 19 point core though? That's a huge investment at 25, and half your points at 35. I'm old fashioned in the way that the only solo that I almost always include is Jr. as I always find myself wanting that extra arcane shield with pStryker or pHaley and having an extra 3 ARM on pNemo (+power token) is also very nice.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    Endgame wrote:I completely disagree with piling buffs on the already heavy hitting targets -- there is really no reason to even drop positive charge on a Stormclad or Rowdy, let alone harming the target. Sure, you'll probably be rolling at dice +4, and you'll kill your target in 2 to 3 hits. Alternatively, you could just drop 3 focus on the Stormclad / Rowdy and you'll still kill your target and you could drop the buff on another jack to make it more viable multi roll.

    YMMV. I play against a lot of Khador. Trust me, even Stormy needs at least one boost otherwise he can't be guaranteed to wreck in one turn.

    Example:
    P+S19+3D6 ~ 30 (24 damage left) (2 focus left)
    P+S14+2D6 ~ 21 (23 damage left)
    P+S19+2D6 ~ 26 (15 damage left) (1 focus left)
    P+S19+2D6 ~ 26 (9 damage left) (no focus left)

    So the +2 damage is key IMHO. I think the P+S18 guys really need it. VS everyone else, what you say is true, but I'd rather be safe than loose my jack in the counterattack.]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1962284.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1962284.page GMT     Opinion on the cyclone
    keezus wrote:
    YMMV. I play against a lot of Khador. Trust me, even Stormy needs at least one boost otherwise he can't be guaranteed to wreck in one turn.

    Example:
    P+S19+3D6 ~ 30 (24 damage left) (2 focus left)
    P+S14+2D6 ~ 21 (23 damage left)
    P+S19+2D6 ~ 26 (15 damage left) (1 focus left)
    P+S19+2D6 ~ 26 (9 damage left) (no focus left)

    So the +2 damage is key IMHO. I think the P+S18 guys really need it. VS everyone else, what you say is true, but I'd rather be safe than loose my jack in the counterattack.


    It depends on what you damage with those hits and what your target is. I'm OK with only dealing 12 damage to a juggernaught as long as I knock out the right arm or cortex. On the other hand, I want to be sure that I kill a Dire Troll Mauler though the mauler has fewer boxes and less armor so thats pretty doable.

    I don't mind playing risky. If you want to be 100% positive that you wreck an undamaged Khador heavy in one turn, I can see and agree with your point.]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1962495.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1962495.page GMT     Opinion on the cyclone
    keezus wrote:
    @ What points value do you run that 19 point core though? That's a huge investment at 25, and half your points at 35. I'm old fashioned in the way that the only solo that I almost always include is Jr. as I always find myself wanting that extra arcane shield with pStryker or pHaley and having an extra 3 ARM on pNemo (+power token) is also very nice.


    35 normally, but the Dude normally packs a defender most of the time in those cases. If he gets a Cyclone, it's usually cause I'm running eCaine and he's there to do zone / crowd control or make a hole for Caine to charge through for a Gatecrasher. Siege also sees this setup quite a bit as well. I don't run this with either Stryker though. I don't run eHaley cause she bores the hell out of me to play. Nemo likewise usually doesn't see this setup either cause I run him jack heavy. Strangewayes in this case is usually my only solo.

    I don't take Jr as much as I used to. 3 points is really stiff for an arc shield battery.]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1962527.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1962527.page GMT     Opinion on the cyclone I find centurions and defenders are much harder to deal with and play against.
    While the covering fire templates are handy vs infantry heavy armies, those of us that run jack heavy just look at the cyclone and think thats a big waste of 9 points.

    Just my opinion from outside cygnar looking in.]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1963706.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1963706.page GMT     Opinion on the cyclone It can deal with infantry, it can deny points to infantry.

    If attached to the Dude he can ping pong other jacks a bit and if in range, can two hand throw.

    I mean you could go with two Trencher Chain guns if you just wanted the cover fire, but they are not as flexible...and IMO, in any game system, there is a 'flexibility' tax and hence the cyclone being a competitor to the Defender and Centurion who have less and less flexibility, but maximizees other aspects.]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1964223.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1964223.page GMT     Re:Opinion on the cyclone http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1966388.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1966388.page GMT Opinion on the cyclone def tough to deal with. It hits hard at range, and it hits hard enough in melee, plus if you dont drop it in one turn, one of your jacks is losing it's cortex, guaranteed.

    I would eat six pwr 12s than lose cortex + other damage.]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1966600.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1966600.page GMT     Re:Opinion on the cyclone
    Dronze wrote:Having played against the cyclone in a couple of games, I can see packing 2 for the sake of mass infantry denial, but you then leave yourself a gaping hole in your anti-jack capabilities, so while they are effective at higher points, I can't really see them being of much use until you break that 35 point barrier, and even then, I can't see them being justified to anything but a journeyman warcaster. Cygnar has some supremely nasty tools at it's disposal, but this is one better left to covering your advance and casting a net to catch infantry charges.


    Jr's wearing his big boy pants there for sure. Kill 3 points to eliminate 21 from the game? That's painting a huge Bulls-eye on him.

    I've done it before too but it's a huge eggs in one basket kinda thing.]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1970327.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1970327.page GMT     Opinion on the cyclone
    pHaley
    ^Cylcone
    ^Cyclone
    ^Hunter
    ^squire
    5x Storm Lances
    Laddermore
    Journeyman
    ^Hunter
    Black 13th

    Use the Cyclones to lay down covering fire to protect your hunters and storm lances. The hunters will eat armor alive, especially on the feat turn (you'll probably have dropped 6 shots by the end of turn 2). The Storm Lances use ride by attack to harass the enemy with ranged attacks (which are surprisingly effective with Deadeye and Laddermore). Temporal barrier should slow down any Melee heavies from bothering you too much.

    Here is another (repost for the Privateer Forums)

    eStryker
    ^Cyclone
    ^Cyclone
    ^Squire
    6x Trenchers
    ^2x Porter
    ^UA
    6x Storm Blades
    6x Storm Blades
    Journeyman
    Aiyana and Holt
    Black 13th
    Lanyssa Ryssyl
    Piper of Ord

    I have occasionally swapped the Black 13th, Ryssyl, and Aiyana and Holt for Rowdy and another Porter. You can also trade the second unit of Storm Blades for the UA and a pair of Storm gunners on one unit, though I've never tried it, it seems OK in theory.

    The list functions on the idea that the trencher smoke wall will protect the list for ranged attacks. The Trenchers, in turn, are protected by Covering fire, Arcane Shield, Deflection, Dirge of Mists, and their own smoke cloud or cover, making them Def 14 (or 16 or 18), Arm 20 against ranged and magic attacks. If you go first, you advance and dig in with the Trenchers, being sure to leave enough room to drop covering fire in front of them if the enemy has melee AD like doom reavers. If you go second and your opponent has any decent amount of ranged or magic threat, you advance and drop smoke, leaving half the trenchers behind the smoke wall of the first 5.

    Also, a neat trick is to pop Stryker's feat, charge past your trenchers with your storm blades, kill stuff, drop smoke with the trenchers, and then fall back behind the smoke with the 3" move. it doesn't usually come into play, but its one turn of playing with MKI smoke wall which is pretty seriously solid in the right game (like charging into pKreoss's line killing stuff, and then falling behind the smoke so he gets no use out of his feat).

    Armor removal usually isn't a problem with storm blades charging a target that has been harmed or with postive charge nearby, and the threat range is pretty solid with Hunters mark. Positive charge and hunters mark also make cyclones a valid armor removal tool, allowing for 5 Mat 8, P+S 16 attacks. It might not always kill what you're after, but it will drop enough damage on most targets to cripple them. And, of course, if all else fails, you've got Stryker to kill whatever you need.
    ]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1971119.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1971119.page GMT     Opinion on the cyclone http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1971180.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1971180.page GMT Re:Opinion on the cyclone
    The role of the Cyclone is anti-light armor. Why would you send it up against an enemy heavy warjack?


    What you should/want to do and what ends up happening is very often two completely different things in WM...]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1971211.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1971211.page GMT     Re:Opinion on the cyclone
    CT GAMER wrote:
    The role of the Cyclone is anti-light armor. Why would you send it up against an enemy heavy warjack?


    What you should/want to do and what ends up happening is very often two completely different things in WM...


    Based on that logic, I should take nothing but cheap Mechanithralls with no WAs or Necrosurgeons, because something will kill them anyway. Hell, by that logic I should just concede before the game starts because my opponent might kill my warcaster. Just because your opponent might counter a model is no reason not to take it.]]>     http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1972498.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1972498.page GMT     Opinion on the cyclone I still try it out in different lists time to time but the special action always outshines the damage it dose.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1972882.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/318461/1972882.page GMT