<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Penal Legion Squads = Awesome"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Penal Legion Squads = Awesome
1. Ld 8
2. 9 Legionaires and a custodian
3. A troop choice
4. Special rules, Scouts, Stubborn
5. The Desperadoes crazy special rule e.g
1/3 chance of Lasguns counting as ASSAULT 2 not RAPID FIRE.
1/3 chance of Counter Attack, fleet and Furious charge.
1/3 Extra close combat weapon (oh and its rending!)

Seriously why is no one totting a 50+ of these as Troops they would literally tear things apart. Back them up with Tanks and Chimera's and you have a wave of sociopaths coming at you.

On another note I was thinking of making Colonel Schaeffer as a counts as Lord Commissar? Maybe using these models as they positively scream schaeffer IMHO, question is which one should i go for?
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2290045



]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1982009.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1982009.page GMT Re:Penal Legion Squads = Awesome Powerblobs are almost always better. Also, generally you want at least 1-2 squads of meltavets to deal with vehicles.

Lord Commissar is generally a fairly substandard choice. If you want to run CC Guard, use Colonel Shaffer as either Creed or Straken. Furious Charge helps immensely.

Also, posting fairly exact rules is frowned upon here, I think. Just a heads up.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1982040.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1982040.page GMT Re:Penal Legion Squads = Awesome
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Ian%27s_Drade_117th_Suicide_Legion_%28IG%29

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1982041.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1982041.page GMT Penal Legion Squads = Awesome
I use a squad or two on occasion and they always deliver something, even if its not a game winning action. A look of genuine surprise on my opponents face usually lol]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1982058.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1982058.page GMT Penal Legion Squads = Awesome http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1982067.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1982067.page GMT Re:Penal Legion Squads = Awesome
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Tactica%20Penal%20Legions

It is a try from me to sum up the capabilities of this unit (I play them almost since the codex came out)

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1982780.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1982780.page GMT Re:Penal Legion Squads = Awesome
Assault 2: 20 prisoners throw down 2 marines, and then charge in for another 2, (unless they get horribly mauled because they don't go first), or 7 GEQ. 30 guardsmen kill 3 marines with rapid firing or 10 GEQ. Damage-wise, they're roughly equal.

Fleet+FC: 20 prisoners charge into close combat and kill 1.5 marine or 9 GEQ. 30 guardsmen kill 4 marines or 10 GEq, just like last time. The guardsmen do more damage.

Rending+1 A: 20 prisoners charge into close combat and kill 3 Meq, or 10 guardsmen. Guardsmen do 4 or 10 again.

What we see is that the penal legionnaires do roughly the same amount of damage as their points in guardsmen, except they reduce their durability by 33% in order to gain outflanking.

Outflanking is nice, and there are times I'd consider taking them for non-fluff reasons, but legionnaires pretty much break even with their guardsman compatriots. Then when you add on things like that they can't be upgraded in any way and a bunch of other lost potential, you can see why few people take them.

That and...

Irdiumstern wrote:Powerblobs are almost always better.


For only 5 points more, you can buy 20 dudes with a commissar. When they charge, they kill 4 MEq and 9 GEq. They don't do any more damage right away, but as combat drags on over several player turns (which it usually does), the power blob pulls way out ahead. Plus, unlike taking 3 penal legionnaires, it doesn't leak KP like a sieve (especially once morale checks start being made).

It's not that penal legionnaires are BAD, it's just that they don't offer anything particularly "wow" when compared to other troops choices.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1983048.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1983048.page GMT Penal Legion Squads = Awesome
Veterans do more damage, platoons hold objectives cheaper, and power blobs are more reliable in assault. Use penal legions for what they're good at: disruption and sheer opportunism.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1983104.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1983104.page GMT Penal Legion Squads = Awesome
5 units of penal legionaries seems like a bad idea to me, but 1 unit seems like an excellent idea. Yes the blob squad is better, but outflanking + stubborn + low point cost is very useful. 80 points makes them completely expendable, and they don't have to win to win. They are perfect for charging devastator squads or ork lootas in the back field, and even if they lose they win...example being if they charge long fangs and kill 2 of them before being wiped out after 4 rounds of CC they damaged a heavy weapons squad and stopped them from shooting for 2 turns.

Leadership 9 stubborn on an outflanking unit is where a lot of their points are. They can easily tarpit a defiler without extra CC weapons, a wraithlord, or a venerable dreadnought.

The most important thing to keep in mind with these guys is diminishing returns. The first squad of them is the most likely to be used in the best possible way, the 2nd less than the first, the 3rd less than the 2nd, and so on....]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1983115.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1983115.page GMT Penal Legion Squads = Awesome btw!)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1983151.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1983151.page GMT Penal Legion Squads = Awesome
schadenfreude wrote:

Leadership 9 stubborn on an outflanking unit is where a lot of their points are. They can easily tarpit a defiler without extra CC weapons, a wraithlord, or a venerable dreadnought.


Penal legion are only LD8. They still break ~27% of the time.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1983161.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1983161.page GMT Penal Legion Squads = Awesome
Like sentinels, they're harassment weapons. Useful, but you shouldn't take out too many points out of your meat and potatoes.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1983196.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1983196.page GMT Penal Legion Squads = Awesome http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1983210.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1983210.page GMT Penal Legion Squads = Awesome http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1983507.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1983507.page GMT Penal Legion Squads = Awesome KP issue. However I think they have a real sting for what looks like a expendable unit. But best of all, they are troops so can capture objectives which is great if you draw an army out and then swoop in turn 3 or 4 off the board straight to the objective. This gives the Guard Army 2 turns to blast the units defending the objective and make their assault easier. All told though the IG have so many options they are brilliant.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1984597.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1984597.page GMT Penal Legion Squads = Awesome
schadenfreude wrote:They also compete with melta vets for the same force org slot.

5 units of penal legionaries seems like a bad idea to me, but 1 unit seems like an excellent idea. Yes the blob squad is better, but outflanking + stubborn + low point cost is very useful. 80 points makes them completely expendable, and they don't have to win to win. They are perfect for charging devastator squads or ork lootas in the back field, and even if they lose they win...example being if they charge long fangs and kill 2 of them before being wiped out after 4 rounds of CC they damaged a heavy weapons squad and stopped them from shooting for 2 turns.

Leadership 9 stubborn on an outflanking unit is where a lot of their points are. They can easily tarpit a defiler without extra CC weapons, a wraithlord, or a venerable dreadnought.

The most important thing to keep in mind with these guys is diminishing returns. The first squad of them is the most likely to be used in the best possible way, the 2nd less than the first, the 3rd less than the 2nd, and so on....


I agree, 1 or 2 squads should be it......

As I prefer platoon units over mechvets, it's not difficult to add penal legionnaires in my builds...I've used a single squad several times, and they were OK....not spectacular, but not lousy too...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1984616.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1984616.page GMT Penal Legion Squads = Awesome
mwnciboo wrote:This gives the Guard Army 2 turns to blast the units defending the objective and make their assault easier. All told though the IG have so many options they are brilliant.

The only problem with this is that if you're only taking like 1 unit, and the purpose is to get it onto an objective, then you really need an astropath to ensure that they arrive on the proper side of the board. Of course, if you take an astropath, they're pretty likely to show up on turn 2, before you've had a chance to do much damage to the enemy.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1985898.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1985898.page GMT Penal Legion Squads = Awesome http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1987145.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1987145.page GMT Penal Legion Squads = Awesome BA players face when my penal legion came in from the flank multi assaulted 2 vindicators and ripped the main guns off both and immobilised one stunned the other(rending for the win). Important to note they don't get grenades.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1987195.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1987195.page GMT Re:Penal Legion Squads = Awesome IG. To get a similar combination would require some fancy list building involving some special characters and commissars. Of course they will not win the battle for you all their own. But soften the enemy back line or flank with shooting before the legionnaires arrive and they will be a pain. Support units with heavy weapons are especially allergic to this treatment. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1987277.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1987277.page GMT Penal Legion Squads = Awesome http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1989308.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1989308.page GMT Re:Penal Legion Squads = Awesome
I put mine into a Valkyrie. Scout the Valkyrie and then scout the legionnaires out for a ridiculously large potential deployment zone
You can actually do this?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1989691.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1989691.page GMT Penal Legion Squads = Awesome
Scout moves work like normal movement, and I have yet to see where you can move after you disembarked out of a transport that moved 12".

Of course, this is all a touch silly, as you have to stay over 12" away from your enemy anyways, so it's not like you're able to get a 1st turn charge in with them or something.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1989985.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1989985.page GMT Penal Legion Squads = Awesome
Ailaros wrote:
Of course, this is all a touch silly, as you have to stay over 12" away from your enemy anyways, so it's not like you're able to get a 1st turn charge in with them or something.



Er yes you can get a 1st turn charge even with normal troops from a valk/vendetta. Scout 24" be 12" from enemy; turn one disembark 2"(more like 3" only sliver of base has to be within 2") move 6" and charge.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1990039.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1990039.page GMT Penal Legion Squads = Awesome
2nd, I'm pretty sure you can't pull off a 1st turn charge from a Valk. I've always measured the scouts 12" requirement to the hull, though you disembark from the base. Never really tried that hard to assault, though. /shrug]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1990121.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1990121.page GMT Penal Legion Squads = Awesome
ElCheezus wrote:1st, it doesn't work because voluntary disembarking is done during the movement phase.

2nd, I'm pretty sure you can't pull off a 1st turn charge from a Valk. I've always measured the scouts 12" requirement to the hull, though you disembark from the base. Never really tried that hard to assault, though. /shrug


1st you disembark at the start of your movement phase (ie after the free 24" turbo boost which occurs before the 1st turn).

2nd I always use the base for measurement as it's more accurate (as opposed to trying to measure on a diagonal up into the air). ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1990266.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1990266.page GMT Penal Legion Squads = Awesome
Sorry, but you just can't use this tactic and play by the rules at the same time.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1990733.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1990733.page GMT Re:Penal Legion Squads = Awesome
1. scout move valk 12" away from target
2. during first turn, disembark = almost 3"
3. move 6" as you disembarked from a non-moving vehicle
4. assault 6"
5. blow up a stationary tank with meltabombs

The penal legion disembarking from scouting valk is of course not cosher]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1990746.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1990746.page GMT Penal Legion Squads = Awesome
After this works exactly once and everyone realises that you're doing it, THEN you won't be able to use this tactic anymore.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1990753.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1990753.page GMT Re:Penal Legion Squads = Awesome KFF, they are often clumped up too, so you might get a multicharge.

Not something to be relied on, I think I've done it once or twice, but it is another trick the vendetta brings to the table. (doesn't help the penal legion though, vets are better for this assaulting role) ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1990765.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1990765.page GMT Penal Legion Squads = Awesome
The blobs did most of the firing, but the penal guys got ALL of the assault dirty work. Half of them got the second rule. The others got the last one.

They have their niche, I'll say. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1990779.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1990779.page GMT Penal Legion Squads = Awesome
Ailaros wrote:touche.

After this works exactly once and everyone realises that you're doing it, THEN you won't be able to use this tactic anymore.


Yes but as has been stated it forces your opponent to take steps to negate it and this in it's own way is a big advantage.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1990849.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1990849.page GMT Penal Legion Squads = Awesome D6" of movement before they get their first player turn.

I mean, yeah, as illumini said, at least they could get 10 free frag grenade hits on rear armor, but that's not exactly all that difficult to stop.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1990938.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1990938.page GMT Penal Legion Squads = Awesome
Ailaros wrote:this would be true, of course, if penal legionnaires actually did anything. I mean, if you do the above complicated thing AND get first turn without getting seized, all you're going to do to a slugga boys mob is give them a free D6" of movement before they get their first player turn.

I mean, yeah, as illumini said, at least they could get 10 free frag grenade hits on rear armor, but that's not exactly all that difficult to stop.


Except Penal Legion don't have grenades.

To be fair I was arguing that you can get a first turn charge. If you are going to do it then you are far better off using vets with demolitions 10 autohitting melta bombs for the win.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1990979.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1990979.page GMT Penal Legion Squads = Awesome
Ailaros wrote:touche.

After this works exactly once and everyone realises that you're doing it, THEN you won't be able to use this tactic anymore.


Your arguing againt a tactic that has proved successful in the past tense. You can't turn around and say; 'X happened last time so I'd better do Y' as what happens if your enemy implements tactic Z? Will you be happy to be caught off guard again only to lose the game, shake your fist and exclaim; 'Next time!...next time!' It might be a one-trick-pony tactic, but it worked against you in the game that 'mattered' (I use that with the most dripping amount of irony possible) so thats the most important thing.

You cannot exclude a tactic due to its one-time-use availability; doesn't a Deathstrike Missile slot into exactly the same category?

L. Wrex]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1991135.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1991135.page GMT Penal Legion Squads = Awesome http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1991139.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1991139.page GMT Penal Legion Squads = Awesome
Polonius wrote:It's a tactic like the four move checkmate in chess: it's not that works once, it's that it only works if your opponent allows it to work.


QFT.

L. Wrex]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1991147.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1991147.page GMT Penal Legion Squads = Awesome KP off of something, or just temporarily inconvenience your opponent at the most...

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1991149.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1991149.page GMT Penal Legion Squads = Awesome
L. Wrex]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1991173.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1991173.page GMT Penal Legion Squads = Awesome http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1991278.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1991278.page GMT Penal Legion Squads = Awesome
Lycaeus Wrex wrote:or force him to dedicate a portion of his force to deal with this 'inconvenience' thus granting you that extra turn of shooting that just may prove decisive.

This is basically THE motto of harassment units, like sentinels, and ratlings, and conscripts. The hope against hope is that you're annoying enough to your opponent that they will make a bunch of mistakes that you will soundly capitalize on.

Of course, even though it MAY prove decisive, it very rarely ever does, which is why so few people take sentinels, ratlings, conscripts, or penal legionnaires.

MekanobSamael wrote:Failing that, he doesn't lament the wasted eighty points.

Given that it's 2/3ds the price of a basilisk, which is actually likely to do something every game, perhaps he should...

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1992550.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1992550.page GMT Penal Legion Squads = Awesome
Ailaros wrote:
Lycaeus Wrex wrote:or force him to dedicate a portion of his force to deal with this 'inconvenience' thus granting you that extra turn of shooting that just may prove decisive.

This is basically THE motto of harassment units, like sentinels, and ratlings, and conscripts. The hope against hope is that you're annoying enough to your opponent that they will make a bunch of mistakes that you will soundly capitalize on.

Of course, even though it MAY prove decisive, it very rarely ever does, which is why so few people take sentinels, ratlings, conscripts, or penal legionnaires.


Hmmm. I'm not so sure about that. I know plenty of people who have made good use of sentinels, ratlings and penal legionnaires (conscripts however, are junk). The issue is that it is difficult to qualify why these units are good outside of saying 'I once saw X do Y and it won me the game!' Looking at the units on paper they aren't that great, but this is why some units are terrible on paper and yet can perform surprisingly well on the table; its a matter of player skill at the end of the day.

Would I say the above units aren't that great simply because their usefulness isn't immediately apparant? No. I would say that it depends entirely on the skill level of the player using that unit, and how it amalgamates into his/her overarching battle plan.

L. Wrex]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1993065.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1993065.page GMT Penal Legion Squads = Awesome
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1993226.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/1993226.page GMT Re:Penal Legion Squads = Awesome
How to use them is the key to get them heroic.

They have a big problem. They need many other supporting units in order to be effective. Which are:

Astropath -> CCS (Standard)
Storm troopers with meltaguns
long range support
more penal legions
faster scoring units already on the board

Their biggest advantage is, that the opponent does not know where the legion/s strike at the start of the game. So the legion player decides when to strike where and what.
And he can decide NOT to strike at all. This is very important.
If he has the choice, legions shouldnt fight at all, they should march. And if they fight, put 3 units of them at one target complementing each other and you will find them more effective than blob infantry.

Their advantage is they are stubborn MSU with first strike.

If you add points, you will see that a usefully equipped 30 man blob (commissar, 4 powerweapons 3 meltaguns) will be a small bit more expensive than 3 penal legions. Rather equal. But with 3 penal legions you do more than with a 30 man blob. You outshoot them with gunslingers (mobile 2 shots 24" is better than immobile frfsrf, you kill them in assault using all 3 of them or decide to tarpit them with 1 unit scoring with 2 others or you ignore them. And most important: The penal legions decide what they do, the blob reacts)

Still they have to be protected from rapid fire and flamers. Long range is not dangerous in the current metagame. So you need flanking melta chimeras to fill their anti vehicle lack and to have a shield. (storm troopers) and you need reliability in your flanking manoeuvering. (astropath) and morale for defending legions (standard).

So: Yes you have to build an army around them to be effective and you have to be experienced with them.

I recommend 3 of them together with 1-2 units of mechvets 1 CCS and 1-2 units storm troopers for a sneaky and highly versatile backbone and some selective big guns for the big damage. The rest is personal gusto.

Be careful with dicussions about units that bring in player skill. There are units that become better in the hands of skilled players (melta vets are a good example), and then there are units that a good enough player can simply win despite having.


To be honest: A good player can win with almost everything. I have seen a player getting top 5 with a store army and I have seen players lose mercylessly with top tier armies against rather decent opposing armies due to not understanding their army.

But there is a performance curve for every unit. There are units that increase their performance proportionally to the players skill.
And there are units that increase their performance exponentially compared to the players skill level.
And there are units that dont increase their performance significantly skilled player or not.

Example for 1: Almost every unit (a CSM unit with bolt pistols and chainswords and bolters and krak and frag grenades can be very deadly and a melta vet unit can perform very badly depending on the players skill)
Example for 2: penal legions (they can be weak guardsmen but they can also be a steamroller. It depends on the player.)
Example for 3: Manticore? (He stops getting more dangerous as soon as the player discovers he can fire directly and he can fire indirectly at the side armour with LOS without scattering disadvantage)
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/2060683.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/2060683.page GMT Penal Legion Squads = Awesome http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/2076028.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/2076028.page GMT Re:Penal Legion Squads = Awesome http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/2076237.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/2076237.page GMT Penal Legion Squads = Awesome http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/2076660.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/2076660.page GMT Penal Legion Squads = Awesome
schadenfreude wrote:

The most important thing to keep in mind with these guys is diminishing returns. The first squad of them is the most likely to be used in the best possible way, the 2nd less than the first, the 3rd less than the 2nd, and so on....


Ahh economics in wargames I love it ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/2076678.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/2076678.page GMT Penal Legion Squads = Awesome http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/2077570.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/2077570.page GMT Re:Penal Legion Squads = Awesome
The most important thing to keep in mind with these guys is diminishing returns. The first squad of them is the most likely to be used in the best possible way, the 2nd less than the first, the 3rd less than the 2nd, and so on....


I would argue to the contrary.

If all 3 kinds work together they are most devastating. 1 legion is nothing to worry about, 30 angry stubborn guys are hard to stop. (Their advantage over regular blob infantry is the possibility to choose whether to act together or separated and the ability to outflank. otherwise they work the same and (if you do the math) they are not less powerful if they need to act)

so we have the same situation as with blobs. 10 men are nothing, 30 are very annoying.

@ElCheezus

Their best use is harassment or scoring, no matter the die roll. You just have to be prepared to play them different ways.


QFT especially the last part sums it all up.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/2085133.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/2085133.page GMT Penal Legion Squads = Awesome FC. They ended up getting used for scoring, so they weren't useless by any means, but man they really need frag grenades sometimes. That 240 point Pask Vanquisher w/ Plasma Sponsons and HK was a juicy target. . .]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/2085145.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/2085145.page GMT Penal Legion Squads = Awesome BiD with meltaguns has killed probably at least half of my vehicles.

I'd actually think that penal legionnaires would do well as a support unit to other outflankers. Al'rahem shows up with a bunch of dudes while creed throws in a couple demolishers, or a few sentinels show up, or some stormies show up to help, or some penal legionnaires arrive as a screen.

By themselves, I don't envision penal legionnaires doing all that much (just like outflanking a single scout sentinel or two), but, like adding another piece of AV12 to an AV12 wall, adding in some more outflankers to an outflanking mob would actually add some synergy.



]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/2086954.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/2086954.page GMT Re:Penal Legion Squads = Awesome
Although I'll go on the record as lamenting the "Gunsligners" roll. Last game I played I really could have benefited them coming on and taking out a vehicle, but both rolled for Assault 2 lasguns. With S3 and no grenades at all, they can only do that if they get either rending or FC. They ended up getting used for scoring, so they weren't useless by any means, but man they really need frag grenades sometimes. That 240 point Pask Vanquisher w/ Plasma Sponsons and HK was a juicy target. .


Personnally I like psychos the least. The problem is with ini 4 they suffer most from the lack of grenades and they need their charge and this charge must be decisive. Against vehicles they dont do enough damage, they can only glance so you just win a turn with a not moving enemy vehicle but you are vulnerable to countercharges against a valuable scoring unit.

I love a screen of gunslingers. They are able to keep pace if advancing or retreating and still pour constant lasgun fire into the enemy out of a safe distance. If they get decimated you can still fall back behind your tanks and use them to score.

I'd actually think that penal legionnaires would do well as a support unit to other outflankers.


Or the other way round But, yes penal legions without support are far less powerful than with a good chimera shield that gets you the melta you desperately need to attack anything (storm troopers).
This is the advantage a blob has, he brings his meltaguns (if the enemy is arrogant or foolish enough to place any unit within 12" of the short edge).

That's why I like al'rahem. BiD with meltaguns has killed probably at least half of my vehicles.


Yes Al'Rahem has also some funny potential. Meltaing and then retreating out of counterdistance for example with his special order. But what I dont like about him is, that his platoon MUST outflank. This narrows his role, and for some reason I dont like platoon infantry (but that is personal ).
And I am not perfectly sure that his whole platoon is rolled for together concerning the side they arrive. (Rolling for reserves of course, but the roll where they arrive is after rolling for reserves and it is made unit per unit) If they reliably walk in at the same edge they are quite nice. If not, they are not so useful.
And I fear its the second.

I was shaking between Al Rahem and Penal Legions. I took Penal Legions for style reasons and today I dont want to miss them. Their dirty work is too essential and I love their strategic flexibility. Although I dont think they are better than Al'Rahems flanking force. I would estimate about the same performance.
And I am desperate enough to play even footguard without platoon infantry (well they get points problems if it gets to higher numbers though and they get little armoured support, but no chimeras... )




]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/2087505.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/2087505.page GMT Re:Penal Legion Squads = Awesome
-Nazdreg- wrote:And I am not perfectly sure that his whole platoon is rolled for together concerning the side they arrive. (Rolling for reserves of course, but the roll where they arrive is after rolling for reserves and it is made unit per unit)

Pg.37 of the guard codex that the decision to blob is "made at deployment" after which they count as a single unit. Whilst waiting to arrive in reserves, they're already just a single unit.

Meanwhile, on pg. 96 of the codes, it says that platoons are "rolled for collectively when determining reserves".

Al'Rahem shows up with everybody all at once on the same side.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/2087723.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/2087723.page GMT Penal Legion Squads = Awesome
L. Wrex]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/2087963.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320064/2087963.page GMT