<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "New Skaven/Beastmen unit: Bull-Rat (name needs work)"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/93.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net New Skaven/Beastmen unit: Bull-Rat (name needs work)
In a battle between Empire and Beastmen, the Skaven appear to ambush the Empire. The unexpected arrival of the Skaven cause the Empire to get more shocked and run-away. The Skaven beg for their life when the Warlord talks the Beasts into working with them (like I said unexpexcted eh lol)
For days they work and finally they create a beast that works on both their sides.

Bull-Rat---Rare---125 pts

Unit Size
1

...M....WS....BS....S....T....W....I....A....LD
...6.....3.......1.....5....5.....4....3....4.....8


Special Rules

Can be used in either Skaven or Beastmen Armies, Impact Hits (D3+1), Unbreakable, Terror, Large Target, Immune to Psychology.

BloodFrenzy
The Bull-Rat is made from many sacrifised minotaurs that the mere sight of blood spurs its lust to kill. Every time its on the winning side in combat it gains adds an additional attack and it also has Infinite Hatred (has the normal frenzy rule on top of that but cannot lose frenzy).
Gore!
The raw momentum of the Bull-Rat is enough to crush the bones of any mortal. On the charge, It gains killing blow on a 5+ on man size targets, on large targets it does D3 wounds.
Gnaw
Like a rat, the bull-rat likes to chew on object. the player can choose to get rid of all his attacks for a single attack, on a roll of D6, 1-4 it picks up an enemy and gnaws on it, this inflicts D6 automatic S4 hits (killing blow if say it hits a 6 on a wound to represent that it just gnawed through a limb or head), 5-6 it it picks up an enemy and swallows it whole, removing it as a casualty(replenishes D3 wounds if it has lost any).
Rat Rush
If the Bull-Rat loses two or more wounds it takes the mind-set of a cornered rat and makes D6+2 additional attacks at S5 (after normal attacks and if gnaw does not swallow whole).
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320630/1992836.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320630/1992836.page GMT New Skaven/Beastmen unit: Bull-Rat (name needs work) http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320630/1994006.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320630/1994006.page GMT New Skaven/Beastmen unit: Bull-Rat (name needs work)
blak43 wrote:The beastmen wouldn't ally with the skaven, they don't really do allies unless it's to kill things, I could see the skaven manipulating the beastmen into attacking something or stealing minotaur parts or living bodies to make twisted freaks and rat ogres out of, even having something like a mix of a ghorgon and and HPA but not working together to make something like that.



That why I said unexpected lol]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320630/1995663.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320630/1995663.page GMT New Skaven/Beastmen unit: Bull-Rat (name needs work)
Omegalightning wrote:That why I said unexpected lol

Exactly! Just like that time the Tyranid Hive Mind unexpectedly joined forces with the Imperial Guard because of a powerful Tau invasion force coming down on the Tyranid home planet! Different universe, same concept.

While I think your fluff needs a little help, the random background story doesn't concern me as much as the unit's rules. It's obviously pretty tough and kind of a beat-stick, but it really isn't better than a properly kitted Doombull and at 250 points doesn't come close to the Hellpit Abomination.

Blood Frenzy is actually worse than the Blood Greed rule that minotaurs already have since they merely need to win combat, not kill 5 enemy models. You have two and a half rules directly from the Ghorgon, why not just play a Ghorgon? I just reread the rules for the Ghorgon and for only 25 points more it's better than your rat-bull in every way.

What are the Claws, Horns, and Teeth doing as equipment? You say it counts as a hand weapon and if they don't make any difference or have special rules, why include them as an equipment list?

When creating a new creature it's often best to first figure out why you are making this new creation. Here are a few reasons people often create a new unit:
1. What niche does it fill that an existing unit does not?
-Right now, your creature is outclassed by both the HPA and the Ghorgon while being at the same point value.
-According to your background story, maybe you'd be better off looking at the Minotaur/Rat Ogre level of creature rather than a big nasty Rare?

2. Do you have a model you want to use that does not currently have rules?
-I have a Syl-Iriah, Heroic miniature on the way, but there's little in the Wood Elf book I'd want to use her as a 'counts-as' for
-I could apply normal lord/hero rules for her, but that would not really do such a unique, characterful model justice

3: Do you have a background story you're in love with and cannot find a suitable existing unit for its counts-as?
-This one is very important to you because it seems you'd be better off just using the established Ghorgon rules with whatever backstory/model you'd like]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320630/1996160.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320630/1996160.page GMT New Skaven/Beastmen unit: Bull-Rat (name needs work)
Kirbinator wrote:
Omegalightning wrote:That why I said unexpected lol

Exactly! Just like that time the Tyranid Hive Mind unexpectedly joined forces with the Imperial Guard because of a powerful Tau invasion force coming down on the Tyranid home planet! Different universe, same concept.

While I think your fluff needs a little help, the random background story doesn't concern me as much as the unit's rules. It's obviously pretty tough and kind of a beat-stick, but it really isn't better than a properly kitted Doombull and at 250 points doesn't come close to the Hellpit Abomination.

Blood Frenzy is actually worse than the Blood Greed rule that minotaurs already have since they merely need to win combat, not kill 5 enemy models. You have two and a half rules directly from the Ghorgon, why not just play a Ghorgon?

What are the Claws, Horns, and Teeth doing as equipment? You say it counts as a hand weapon and if they don't make any difference or have special rules, why include them as an equipment list?

When creating a new creature it's often best to figure out a few things:
1: Why are you creating the new creature?
-What niche does it fill that an existing unit does not?
-Do you have a model you want to use that does not currently have rules? (see my Syl-Iriah proposed rules for this)


More to come later, back to work!


thanks for the advice and i'll try to think of rules for it
the only thing is combining rules from both armies and putting them together :/
i'll edit if some appear to me ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320630/1996316.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320630/1996316.page GMT Re:New Skaven/Beastmen unit: Bull-Rat (name needs work) ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320630/1996866.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320630/1996866.page GMT New Skaven/Beastmen unit: Bull-Rat (name needs work)
Swallow whole: Initiative test or die Infantry and monsterous infantry only. Skaven love to eat so it's fluffy in that way.

or

Burrow: Starting turn 2 roll a die if the desired result comes up place it on the board and scatter 2d6. May charge same turn, if it lands on a unit it counts as charging that unit. Skaven come from underground, fluffy in that respect.

Other rules and such will make it more skaven rather than all beastmen.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and the fluff seems kind of ruff, maybe expand on it or change it all together. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320630/1997686.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320630/1997686.page GMT New Skaven/Beastmen unit: Bull-Rat (name needs work)
But everyone else have points in the sense that it seems More beastmany than skaveny....

But then i don't think we can have it misfiring so it can't be REALLY skaveny ^^
And at 250 points in a rare slot.... People would just take the HPA...
maybe lower the stats and points to 125? that way 2 of the blighters in a 1000 point game will appeal to people more?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320630/1997768.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320630/1997768.page GMT Re:New Skaven/Beastmen unit: Bull-Rat (name needs work) ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320630/1998724.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/320630/1998724.page GMT