<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Which CC marines to play?"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Which CC marines to play? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/321648/2010238.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/321648/2010238.page GMT Which CC marines to play? CC with any space marine chapter except for DA.

Shrike: fleet of foot for every unit...and shrike's unit infiltrates as well.

Blood Angels: Furious Charge and feel no pain. Jump marines or mech...take your pick.

Space Wolves: Thunderwolf Cav is the most common hth unit taken by space wolves player, but if you want Cheap bodies, bloodclaw spam is pretty scary.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/321648/2010254.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/321648/2010254.page GMT Re:Which CC marines to play? CC army. Space Wolves aren't. Space Wolves are a close range army with a very good CC unit. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/321648/2011066.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/321648/2011066.page GMT Which CC marines to play? FNP and FC to your guys and a boatload of fast vehicles and jump packs]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/321648/2011133.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/321648/2011133.page GMT Which CC marines to play?
Also, you can give the ENTIRE army preferred enemy, which re-rolls all missed attacks. Nothing else Marine wise can match that in scariness.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/321648/2011209.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/321648/2011209.page GMT Re:Which CC marines to play?
Seaward wrote:Blood Angels, as they're actually a CC army. Space Wolves aren't. Space Wolves are a close range army with a very good CC unit.


I hate to admit it, but Seaward's right.

liam0404 wrote:Black Templars hands down. Every basic troop can be given a bolt pistol + close combat weapon.

Also, you can give the ENTIRE army preferred enemy, which re-rolls all missed attacks. Nothing else Marine wise can match that in scariness.


Not that you're biased.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/321648/2011222.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/321648/2011222.page GMT Re:Which CC marines to play?
Just Dave wrote:

liam0404 wrote:Black Templars hands down. Every basic troop can be given a bolt pistol + close combat weapon.

Also, you can give the ENTIRE army preferred enemy, which re-rolls all missed attacks. Nothing else Marine wise can match that in scariness.


Not that you're biased.


Not at all

But picture this:

8 Assault terminators on the charge against...lets say 30 Ork boys.

BT terminators can take furious charge. Let's say that (since their storm shields suck), they all have lightning claws.

32 attacks on the charge, with re-rolls, lets say around 24 hits.

3's to wound, so lets say 16 wounds - the misses are then re-rolled, so thats 20 wounds.

You'd have similare results against MEQ as well, since furious charge increases your initive. There are other units in the BT army that can hit with an impressive number of attacks, but I think this is one of their best combos.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/321648/2011232.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/321648/2011232.page GMT Which CC marines to play? BT Templar army.

Even so, picture this:

Mephiston. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/321648/2011237.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/321648/2011237.page GMT Which CC marines to play?
As for over-compensation, I think you're being a little harsh. The entire BT army is bred for assault - even a basic troop unit gets 30 attacks on the charge with re-rolls. I've lost my fair share of games yes, but with my current assault focussed list, i can honestly say that i've been able to outfight every army i've fought.

Some Pros:

Assault squads can all be given melta-bombs at the ludicrously low price of 2 points per model.

Our terminators are extremely powerful. Normal termies can take 2 assault cannons per squad - even if there are only 5 per model

We can take LRC's as dedicated transports

Preferred enemy for EVERY model (this is too good not to repeat!)

Fearless in CC (though this can work against you on occasion)

Some Cons:

Righteous Zeal can pull you off objectives (and sometimes make you fall back)

No LRR's

No devastator squads

No Vanguard veterans

I'm by no means saying the other chapters aren't good, I just think that the ONLY way to run the BT's is to kit them out for CC. It's what they are 100% designed to do.


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/321648/2011252.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/321648/2011252.page GMT Which CC marines to play? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/321648/2011543.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/321648/2011543.page GMT Which CC marines to play? BT can't, really.

Still, for sheer CC potential, other space marine armies can at least match the Black Templars. Blood Angels, while maybe not able to exceed the BTs in sheer hitting power, can certainly get stuck in quicker (jump/mech list). Different options to weigh. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/321648/2011563.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/321648/2011563.page GMT Re:Which CC marines to play? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/321648/2011598.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/321648/2011598.page GMT Which CC marines to play? HQs and troops. But there is enough there for some flavor, and just a rock hard core of scoring CC death. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/321648/2013128.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/321648/2013128.page GMT Re:Which CC marines to play? RZ is supposedly a con, a consolidate move(which is what RZ is) is "up to D6 inches"(P40 BRB). If your opponent won't let you not move, just nudge your models 1/16th of an inch or so, remembering that it's "up to" D6 inches, meaning you don't have to move max distance.
One of the other cons of Templars is that their powerfist models have only one attack(they were really hurt by the 5th ed pfist nerf), though preferred enemy helps out here.
Don't think that Templars are going to keep their preferred enemy in the next edition, though I'm sure they'll get flavor to make up for it.

Other not mentioned cons of BT include having to take an LD test to shoot at targets not the closest, not coming with grenades(and being more expensive than other marines on a model by model basis with them), and limited support choices(and some support choices that just cost much more!). On the other hand the Emperor's Champion is pretty awesome for a compulsory HQ choice, and he takes up no slot on the FoC. Preferred Enemy Lightning claw termies are possibly the most destructive hammer unit in the game at the moment with all those rerolls ensuring they always do maximum damage every assault phase. Mixed crusader squads are also slightly better than other armies basic CC squads because they have really cheap ablative wounds(and though neos don't get to use preferred enemy they hit almost as hard otherwise) for their special weaponey awesomeness. It's also worth noting that you can do neat things like give veteran squads "Veteran skills" so your preferred enemy lightning claw termies can have Furious charge, your cyclone or AC termies can have Tank Hunters, and your dreads can be given Tank Hunters or Furious Charge too, very handy with the limited HS options the codex has.

On the other hand the blood angels can have an all deepstriking list with 2 meltas in every squad where every squad has furious charge and feel no pain, or you can spam AV13/14 like no other army, or you can take probably IMO the most awesome skimmer in the game. You've got a number of really good possible lists here with Fast vehicles including fast razorbacks(a trendy list), DoA(risky, but scary), and high AV spam(troops in land raiders and 6x preds/vindis), as well as storm raven lists for fun and profit.

I'm suprised nobody mentioned mono-Khorne or hybrid CSM lists. Some of the best shock assault troops in the game backed by melta plague/CSM/raptor squads and a Daemon Prince(or two) with some antitank HS choices. The chaos marines 'dex is a bit limited and this isn't considered to be a tournament optimal build, but its' BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! and good fun to boot. Chaos marines in general, while not as strong as furious charge/feel no pain angels assault marines or preferred enemy crusaders are a viable close combatey army that can put out some dakka when needed. Plague marines in specific are good counters to typical assault units, being T5 and feel no pain with defensive blight grenades, and 'zerkers are amazing with WS5, 3a each(4 on the charge), and furious charge to make those WS5 attacks more devastating. Also Kharn rocks the socks of any other special character in terms of pure slaughterability(how many S6 PW attacks on the charge that hit on a 2+?), except maybe Abbadon.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/321648/2013408.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/321648/2013408.page GMT Re:Which CC marines to play?
liam0404 wrote:
Just Dave wrote:

liam0404 wrote:Black Templars hands down. Every basic troop can be given a bolt pistol + close combat weapon.

Also, you can give the ENTIRE army preferred enemy, which re-rolls all missed attacks. Nothing else Marine wise can match that in scariness.


Not that you're biased.


Not at all

But picture this:

8 Assault terminators on the charge against...lets say 30 Ork boys.

BT terminators can take furious charge. Let's say that (since their storm shields suck), they all have lightning claws.

32 attacks on the charge, with re-rolls, lets say around 24 hits.

3's to wound, so lets say 16 wounds - the misses are then re-rolled, so thats 20 wounds.

You'd have similare results against MEQ as well, since furious charge increases your initive. There are other units in the BT army that can hit with an impressive number of attacks, but I think this is one of their best combos.


If we're going with mathhammer:
For a similar price, consider 9 death company and an elite-slot chaplain (including their ride):
death company attacks: 45 on the charge, hitting on 3++ nets 39.798 hits
wound rolls on 3++ (furious charge) nets 35.19 wounds
nets 29.2 dead orks or 11.6 dead MEQ
This is without the chaplain's attacks or the 2-3 PF or PW you should give the squad.

Just a consideration.

EDIT: The above squad is ~315 points, more than 100 points less than the Terminator squad.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/321648/2013536.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/321648/2013536.page GMT Re:Which CC marines to play? Of course you could put them in a Storm Raven or Land Raider, but then they cost as much or more than Terminators.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/321648/2013607.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/321648/2013607.page GMT Which CC marines to play?
FaarisShazad wrote:Hey guys, as the title suggests I am looking for a marine army to play...to keep with CC
May I suggest... ?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/321648/2013646.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/321648/2013646.page GMT Re:Which CC marines to play?
Xeonicfront wrote:Death Company have the singular disadvantage that once their transport is destroyed they run towards the nearest visible enemy like maniacs so your opponent has almost as much control over their movements as you do, and if you disclose transport contents(and you should normally according to P92 "a note on secrecy", but opponent's permission trumps all) your death company transport -will- be destroyed.
Of course you could put them in a Storm Raven or Land Raider, but then they cost as much or more than Terminators.


This is exactly my point. Death company are the worst srs-business assault unit BA have, and they trump the BT in my opinion. PLUS BA have an up-to-date codex, model range that doesn't require a $30 conversion pack to look like BA, and aren't hampered by an anachronistic ruleset that no longer functions as intended.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/321648/2013739.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/321648/2013739.page GMT Re:Which CC marines to play? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/321648/2013773.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/321648/2013773.page GMT Which CC marines to play? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/321648/2015045.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/321648/2015045.page GMT