<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS"]]>

<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2063166.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2063166.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS ap too high, rate of fire too low. you're chaos fight up close.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2063176.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2063176.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS mos bike mbs, and a sorc lash mos bike mbs, 3 squads noise with sb's champ ds and bm, rhino dp, thn the rest of the points is unrhinoed squads of 5 havocs with ac, theyre cheap and provide the strength 7 dakka i need to take out he necrons and nids i frequenly see]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2063199.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2063199.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2063281.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2063281.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS ?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2063288.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2063288.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS I have a cult of slaanesh that goes
2 demon princes mark/lash/wings
4 noise marine squads doom siren sonic blasters
2 havoc squads 4 lascannons icon of chaos undivided.
thats for 2000 points. at 1500 lascannons are probably too expensive for havocs. maybe a pair of tri las predators. idk.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2063403.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2063403.page GMT Re:Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS CSM codex suffers from almost all of their heavy weapons being just a bit more expensive than the 5th edition books and it puts them just above the price of being competative. In the Blood angels and Space Wolves books the missile launcher in a Dev/Long Fang squad is 10pts rather than the 20 you pay for an auto-cannon or missile launcher. 4 meltas in a 5 man squad for only 10pts each is quite a bit more attractive. For a bit more, you could change the Havocs for Chosen and then outflank with 5 meltas. This could save your heavy spots more templates to make better use of Lash, like a vindicator, obliterator, or defiler.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2063464.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2063464.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2063483.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2063483.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS

anything else you can contribute would be much appreciated

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2063686.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2063686.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS AC's are good with respect to the heavy weapons you could get on havocs.
They are wonderful transport openers.

In addition, you do fight up close, but being able to open up transports before you commit your front line can save you a squad.
There are faster armies: with the reach, medium strength, and better rate of fire you can take that away from them. Though they are reliant on terrain and local meta to get the most out of them.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Please look in the Oblits vs. Havocs thread for more info.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2065327.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2065327.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS CSMs with AC/MG opening transports in turn 1 + 2.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2065365.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2065365.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS

AbaddonFidelis wrote:junk. don't. there are a few situations where they are good but not many. ap too high, rate of fire too low. you're chaos fight up close.

This.

With a couple of narrow exceptions, autocannons are really only useful at slightly slowing down your opponent if they play a mech army.

Given that you WANT them close, why would you want to slow them down?

Also, given the cost:crappiness ratio of havocs, why even take any? Why not bikes or termicide or something?

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2066020.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2066020.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS
I do agree with alot of the bashing here, but if you want to see the opposite side of the coin, (as I suggested) lookin the Havocs vs. Oblits thread...there is some good lovin' for havocs there.

Otherwise, I'd just suggest MOAR TROOPS!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2066091.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2066091.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS ACs are weird; they are generally considered one of the best anti-light/Med-tank weapons you can buy... unless that is there are better choices in your army.

In their niche ACs are better than lascannons(it is the extra shots that grant this); they are more tactically flexible than heavy bolters(multiple high-str shots mean they are good for hordes and anti-AV). But in Havoc squads and the like missile launchers are better(Higher Str and Flexibility and the BS4 means that you will hit about as often as with a BS3 AC)

It mostly comes down to personal preference but for Marines(of any Variety) Missile launchers are far superior and generally the Same cost.

The Defiler should exchange it's autocannon for another CCW(you are shooting the Battlecannon, or running to get into assault)

Chaos Space marine Squads should have the second Special weapon(because they should be moving every turn, and trying to get into assault)

Chaos dreads should have either Lascannon/Missile launcher, or Pair of DCCWs, or DCCW+Lascannon, Plasma Cannon, or Multi-melta.

Reaper ACs on Chaos Termies are over-costed and thus kinda Garbage (they should either be suicide-squads, or assault bullies, and they cannot assault after firing the Reaper).

So really in Chaos marines the Only Place ACs fit is Havocs(where the ML is a better choice), and Predators(because the T-L Lascannon is overcosted).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2066278.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2066278.page GMT Re:Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS IG that have resurrected autocannons. on bs3 they are better and cheaper. I do however love the idea of autocannon CSM, and would probably just use them for the cool factor.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2066410.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2066410.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2066467.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2066467.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS
Missile launchers are my recommendation, but I don't run havocs so take it with a grain of salt. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2066834.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2066834.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS ac are not particulaly versatile but i dont see the need for versatile weapons in a jack of all trades army anyway, i find myself relying on their transport popping capability, and their anti mc abilities as well]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2066842.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2066842.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS

Ailaros wrote:

AbaddonFidelis wrote:junk. don't. there are a few situations where they are good but not many. ap too high, rate of fire too low. you're chaos fight up close.

I want them close on my terms. When you destroy their mobility, you can more likely engage them where you want. And wow, I have found the havoks to be useful in general and murderous against tyranids.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2066923.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2066923.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS
And yeah, a 4-ML brigade would probably put the hurt down on most MCs, but there are lots of ways to do that with chaos that are also better at non-MCs at the same time.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2066927.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2066927.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2066967.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2066967.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2067061.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2067061.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS

Ailaros wrote:but throwing them out of their bawkes does virtually nothing to their mobility, much less "destroy" it.

And yeah, a 4-ML brigade would probably put the hurt down on most MCs, but there are lots of ways to do that with chaos that are also better at non-MCs at the same time.

What exactly would be better at non-MCs than a missile launcher?

4 BS4 Missiles launched at most MCs should be 2-3 Wounds.

4 BS4 Missiles Launched at AV10-12 Should be 2-3 Damage results, at least 1 of them being a Pen, and AV 13
1-2 damage results(1 might be a Pen).

4 BS4 Missiles launched at a troops squad should be at least 6-8 models hit.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2067132.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2067132.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS

Mentat wrote:

Ailaros wrote:
AbaddonFidelis wrote:junk. don't. there are a few situations where they are good but not many. ap too high, rate of fire too low. you're chaos fight up close.

This.

With a couple of narrow exceptions, autocannons are really only useful at slightly slowing down your opponent if they play a mech army.

Given that you WANT them close, why would you want to slow them down?

Also, given the cost:crappiness ratio of havocs, why even take any? Why not bikes or termicide or something?

if you buy a squad of havocs and use them to blow up your opponent's rides, that's 2-300 points that are not in the close quarters fight, wherever it happens, since havocs have to stand still to do their job. so if your havoc squad keeps an opponent's 2-300 point squad out of the fight, you didn't gain anything. it makes more sense to buy a normal csm squad or some variant thereof and just melt them up close. that way you blast the rhino and charge them at the same time. the location of the fight doesn't matter that much, except with respect to the objectives. given that as the chaos player you ought to be *winning* those fights I don't see this as much of an issue. the only other thing that matters about the location is concentration of forces. since you have to keep your own guys out of the fight in order to keep their guys out of the fight if you go with the havocs, again you're not making any progress.

take close combat guys, spam melta guns. havocs are a complex solution to a simple problem. AF

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but if you just have to run havocs take missile launchers or lascannons, since they are useful against monstrous creatures, but autocannons are not.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2067407.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2067407.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS But on other vehicles or havocs, this is usually a poor choice.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2067428.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2067428.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2067434.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2067434.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS

AbaddonFidelis wrote:
if you buy a squad of havocs and use them to blow up your opponent's rides, that's 2-300 points that are not in the close quarters fight, wherever it happens, since havocs have to stand still to do their job. so if your havoc squad keeps an opponent's 2-300 point squad out of the fight, you didn't gain anything. it makes more sense to buy a normal csm squad or some variant thereof and just melt them up close. that way you blast the rhino and charge them at the same time. the location of the fight doesn't matter that much, except with respect to the objectives. given that as the chaos player you ought to be *winning* those fights I don't see this as much of an issue. the only other thing that matters about the location is concentration of forces. since you have to keep your own guys out of the fight in order to keep their guys out of the fight if you go with the havocs, again you're not making any progress.

take close combat guys, spam melta guns. havocs are a complex solution to a simple problem. AF

I dont use havok squads, my post above was (mistakenly) referring to havok launchers. I have an autocannon and meltagun in each CSM squad. I normally use the meltas on land raiders. The location of the fight does matter because i can often achieve local numerical superiority and leave some of the enemy units running to catch up. "Since I am chaos" doesnt help me win assaults against even numbers of Blood Angels. (well... until I pop the sanguinary priest with a hidden power fist)

edit: last game I did try a havok squad outfitted just like my CSMs except they had 4 heavy bolters. I knew I was fighting orks and wanted to try that out. They did really well with 12 36"range kill orks on a 3+ shots. What is nice about havoks is they as as good in assault as normal CSMs. Also you could outfit them with specials if you don't want to infiltrate or outflank a chosen squad or if you want something else in the elite slots.

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AbaddonFidelis wrote:for every army there is one and only one best way to handle a given situation. the sum of all the situations you're likely to encounter, and the compromise between the best way to handle any one of them determines the right way to build the army. all the other ways are wrong. it's not a game of preferences. the numbers are available for anyone to look at.

Well luckily there is also skill involved, so I can play my sub-standard list instead of having to take a boring cookie cutter list to win.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2067494.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2067494.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS

AbaddonFidelis wrote:for every army there is one and only one best way to handle a given situation. the sum of all the situations you're likely to encounter, and the compromise between the best way to handle any one of them determines the right way to build the army. all the other ways are wrong. it's not a game of preferences. the numbers are available for anyone to look at.

Wow, with an attitude like that I don't know how long you could play this game without losing your mind to monotony. Or you end up doing nothing but posting in complaint threads about the latest flavor of the day being OP against your last months flavor army.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2067626.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2067626.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS Just accept that's the way AF rolls and move on and mind other things. Seriously.

Havocs [or anything else we could talk about] don't work well for him ( or maybe he's just theoryhammering it so he actually doesn't know) but it doesn't mean it won't work well for others.

He's pushing his way of winning; the key word is of course 'his'.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2068427.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2068427.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS

Viper217 wrote:

AbaddonFidelis wrote:for every army there is one and only one best way to handle a given situation. the sum of all the situations you're likely to encounter, and the compromise between the best way to handle any one of them determines the right way to build the army. all the other ways are wrong. it's not a game of preferences. the numbers are available for anyone to look at.

the challenge is discovering what that way is. Your opponents are always changing so the requirements of your army always change too. Other than that I don't know what you're talking about ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2069641.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2069641.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS
I think that if you play in a mech heavy environment, especially one with lots of eldar or IG skimmers, the AC becomes substantially better. I disagree with Ailaros on the utility of slowing down transports, on the other hand I usually do it with dirt cheap IG, not pretty expensive Chaos.

On a more general note, when you play your first tournament play the army you know the best. Be comfortable and confident. You might lose. You might lose a lot. But taking a list that you're not fluent in won't help that, and will probably hurt it. Learn what works, and what doesn't. tournaments are full of people that win more than they lose with units that are mostly dismissed online. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2072765.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2072765.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2074915.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2074915.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS
Or just put him on Ignore and continue with the discussion. After all, what works for one player should work for another. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2074949.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2074949.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2074992.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2074992.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2075063.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2075063.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS

Nurglitch wrote:Sanctjud:

Or just put him on Ignore and continue with the discussion. After all, what works for one player should work for another.

I'm not sure that's always true. (and this may be a good topic for our secret project). ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2075076.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2075076.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS
In terms of three Lascannons vs four Autocannons, glancing or penetrating AV12:

Lascannons
3x(4/6)*(3/6) or (1/6) = 0.33 or 0.99

Shaken or Stunned = 0.22+0.33 = 0.55
Weapon Destroyed = 0.055+0.165 = 0.22
Immobilized = 0.055+0.165 = 0.22
Wrecked = 0.165 = 0.17
Asplode = 0.165 = 0.17

Autocannons
8x(4/6)*(1/6) or (1/6) =0.88 or 0.88

Shaken or Stunned = 0.88
Weapon Destroyed = 0.29
Immobilized = 0.29
Wrecked = 0.15
Asplode = 0.15

More dice means more opportunity to frig up the AV12- vehicle, if you have to shoot it in the face instead of the ass.

The same Autocannons vs Lascannon on Long Fang Infantry:

8x(4/6)*(5/6)*(2/6) = 1.48

3x(4/6)*(5/6)*(4/6) = 1.11]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2075163.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2075163.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2075169.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2075169.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS

Asgeirr Darkwolf wrote:If you want to take on light armor, autos are great. Land raiders or monoliths? Not so much.

OTOH, it's not like lascannons eat AV14 for dinner. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2075174.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2075174.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS AC's.

Unless they turn into S6 AP5 Heavy 9

That would make me want to use them.

Personally, I only use Havoc Squads for Missle spam...Or plasma cannon EDIT: nvm, I was thinking of loyalists. I can't even take plasmacannons

spam...Either one is fine. Heavy bolters, flamers and autocannons are basically useless, IMO. I'm ambivalent about lascannons. They have practical use, but they're still "The Gun of Many Ones"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2075204.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2075204.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS
Let's compare four Missile Launchers at AV12, glancing or penetrating:

4x(4/6)*(1/6) or (2/6) =0.44 or 0.88

Shaken or Stunned = 0.15 + 0.29 = 0.44
Weapon Destroyed = 0.07+0.146 = 0.22
Immobilized = 0.07+0.146 = 0.22
Wrecked = 0.146 = 0.15
Asplode = 0.146 = 0.15

Hmm, Autocannon wins again.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2075262.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2075262.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS AV 12... although, that is the majority. If the OP could post a list, so we can see how these havocs fit into the equation?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2075281.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2075281.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS

Automatically Appended Next Post:
lord bike mos demon weapon mbs

sorc bike mos lash mbs

noise marines, 6, rhino bm sonics on squaad, champ has ds sonic mbs pw, rhino has demonic possesion
*3

bikes, 5, champ fist, meltas on squad, 2, ios
*2 (run with lord and sorc for wounds and at)

all extra points go into 5 man havoc squads with 4 ac no rhino, (not sure how many sos, dont have the list in front of me) (no rhino but i sit them still and shoot the crap out of suff, concentrating on transports and mc's, i usually dont get them shot at because everyone i play against seems to be worried about the 2 hqs and ten bikers screaming towards them...)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2075327.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2075327.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS
Autocannon
8x(4/6)*(1/6) or (3/6) = 0.88 or 2.67

Shaken or Stunned = 0.586+0.89 = 1.48
Weapon Destroyed = 0.146+0.445 = 0.591
Immobilized = 0.146+0.445 = 0.591
Wrecked = 0.445 = 0.45
Asplode = 0.445 = 0.45

Missile Launcher
4x(4/6)* (1/6) or (4/6) = 0.444 or 1.777

Shaken or Stunned = 0.296+0.592 = 0.89
Weapon Destroyed = 0.074+0.296 = 0.37
Immobilized = 0.074+0.296 = 0.37
Wrecked = 0.296 = 0.30
Asplode = 0.296 = 0.30

Lascannon
3x(4/6)*(1/6) or (5/6) = 0.33 or 1.67

Shaken or Stunned = 0.22+0.555 = 0.78
Weapon Destroyed = 0.055+0.278 = 0.33
Immobilized = 0.055+0.278 = 0.33
Wrecked = 0.278 = 0.28
Asplode = 0.278 = 0.28

AV11

Autocannon
8x(4/6)*(1/6) or (2/6) = 0.88 or 1.77

Shaken or Stunned = 0.586+0.59 = 1.17
Weapon Destroyed = 0.146+0.295 = 0.44
Immobilized = 0.146+0.295 = 0.44
Wrecked = 0.295 = 0.30
Asplode = 0.295 = 0.30

Missile Launcher
4x(4/6)* (1/6) or (3/6) = 0.444 or 1.33

Shaken or Stunned = 0.296+0.443 = 0.89
Weapon Destroyed = 0.074+0.221 = 0.30
Immobilized = 0.074+0.221 = 0.30
Wrecked = 0.221 = 0.22
Asplode = 0.221 = 0.22

Lascannon
3x(4/6)*(1/6) or (4/6) = 0.33 or 1.33

Shaken or Stunned = 0.22+0.555 = 0.78
Weapon Destroyed = 0.055+0.278 = 0.33
Immobilized = 0.055+0.278 = 0.33
Wrecked = 0.22 = 0.22
Asplode = 0.22 = 0.22

Actually that's kind of interesting. 105 points of Lascannons do the same work as 80 points of Missile Launchers in the AV11 department. Again, Autocannons win though. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2075349.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2075349.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS

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i was just wondering if there was any other weapons i should consider?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2075353.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2075353.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS
Plasma Guns. They're like short-ranged Autocannons. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2075448.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2075448.page GMT Autocannons: good or bad?, CSMS http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2075527.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/324823/2075527.page GMT