<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Bringing Relentless in to 8th (2500 Dwarfs)"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/93.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Bringing Relentless in to 8th (2500 Dwarfs)
Dwarf Lord, shield bearers, great weapon, 1+ re-rollable armor save, immune to poison/killing blow, 4+ ward (266 points)
Runesmith, shield, spellbreaker, spelleater (147 points)
Thane, BSB, 1+ re-rollable armor save, immune to poison/killing blow (155 points)
30 Warriors, full command, great weapons (325 points)
30 Warriors, full command, shields (295 points)
20 Longbeards, full command, shields, MR of Grungni (315 points)
10 Rangers, great weapons, champion, musician (125 points)
20 Hammerers, full command (265 points)
Cannon, engineer, rune of forging, rune of burning (145 points)
Grudgethrower, engineer, rune of accuracy, 2 x runes of penetrating (170 points)
Organ gun (120 points)
Gyrocopter (140 points)

Total: 2473

Which leaves 27 points still available. Some thoughts are to give the BSB a magic weapon, or restore his kit to the old Strollaz set up (vulnerable but mobile). The gyro is considered suboptimal in a lot of circles, but I've already surrendered a lot of mobility to get as much as I have. I'm kind of appalled by the grudgethrower cost, but after using the strength 5 splash, I'm pretty enamored with it.

This version has also moved the MR of Grungni to the longbeards, who are more survivable and less of a priority target than the hammerers. It also complements their panic bubble...

Thoughts? Have I lost too much mobility from the old versions?

I'm hoping to get it the extra dwarfs modeled up and try it out soon...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2214259.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2214259.page GMT Bringing Relentless in to 8th (2500 Dwarfs) http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2217223.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2217223.page GMT Re:Bringing Relentless in to 8th (2500 Dwarfs) BSB weapon and a rune of furnace on him as well. I would go ahead and give the 2 engineers a brace of pistols too. You might as well give your lord the furnace rune too. Or you could go with a combination of two of those and try that rune of luck on your lord.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2217270.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2217270.page GMT Bringing Relentless in to 8th (2500 Dwarfs) ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2217320.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2217320.page GMT Bringing Relentless in to 8th (2500 Dwarfs)
I'd like to have the old MR of Steel build, but doing that comes out a lot more expensive.

I'm also considering just going with a Runelord and BSB for the characters, but at this point I'm pretty comfortable with the Dwarf lord and can use him pretty well. I'll see if I can get the 30 great weapons put together in time for a local tourney next week and give it a go.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2218499.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2218499.page GMT Re:Bringing Relentless in to 8th (2500 Dwarfs) gw might be a better choice for those 27 points.

Good luck in getting those warriors put together and glad you got the hobby and painting bug again.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2218687.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2218687.page GMT Re:Bringing Relentless in to 8th (2500 Dwarfs)
Here's what I tried:

Runelord[, MR of Balance (steal a die), Spellbreaker (dispel scroll), Spelleater (dispel scroll that removes a spell on 4+)
Thane BSB, MR of Gromril, Rune of Resistance, Rune of Preservation, Rune of Fire, rune of the furnace (1+ re-rollable, immune to poison/killing blow, 2+ ward vs. flaming, flaming attacks)
Warriors x 30 w/great weapons, full command
Warriors x 35 w/shields, full command
Warriors x 10 w/shields, musician
Longbeards x 20 w/great weapons, full command, MR of Grungni (5+ ward vs. shooting, magic missiles)
Quarrelers x 10 w/great weapons, musician
Hammerers x 20 w/full command
Cannon w/rune of forging, burning
Grudgethrower w/engineer, rune of accuracy, 2xrune of penetrating
Organ gun
Gyrocopter

This comes out to 2500 even. There's over 1200 wrapped up in core- so if I had the models, I'd swap the longbeards over to hammerers, and use the 20 points to put an engineer on the cannon and give the runelord a shield. I may do the latter by dropping rune of the furnace off my BSB, but if the runelord is in combat, I've kind of screwed up anyways. I'll have to ponder that a bit.

I got two games in with it tonight.

The first was a casty empire list- Mortar, 2 cannons, rocket battery, 2 engineers, steam tank, Lvl 4 life caster, 2 x Lvl 2 shadow casters, 21 flagellants, 25-ish sworsdmen with halberd detachment, 10 knights w/mounted bsb and archlector. It was a good first test, as I've sacrificed the strollaz in exchange for more defense (but I tend to not be able to advance against empire till the steam tank is neutralized anyhow). There was a lot of up and down, but enough life magic went off that the steam tank survived, and my BSB got dwellered. My great weapons were almost ready to junk the tank, swinging 15 times per turn at a tank with 4 wounds left, but failed a steadfast check when they got charged in the flank. The gyro soaked a cannonball hit, then rampaged through the backfield, picking up both engineers the mortar, and the rocket battery, while the rangers (with an assist from the grudgethrower) managed to whittle down the flagellants and wipe them out. In the end, I was down by 155 victory points, for the closest game I've had in 8th. Overall, was pretty happy, and definitely impressed by the Runelord's magic phase management.

The second was against a lizard man army with dual slann (!) both with shadow. I managed to stretch deployment way out, so avoided combats until late in order to minimize the impact of shadow debuffs and mindrazor. I picked off all the chaff, an engine, one of the slann (hammerers for the win!), and a block of temple guard, despite blowing the organ gun up for no hits early on. I was able to do an okay-ish job of keeping even a focused rumination magic phase in check, so was fairly happy again.

I'd be interested in hearing other thoughts- I think I'm probably toast against some of the power builds like the graveguard death star, but not sure what I can do there...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2230482.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2230482.page GMT Bringing Relentless in to 8th (2500 Dwarfs)

Also, when I see the dwarf-specific feedback all I see is "You could take Rune of Awesomeness, or Rune of Beardiness, and don't forget to add Rune of Stumpiness"
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2232071.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2232071.page GMT Re:Bringing Relentless in to 8th (2500 Dwarfs)
Red_Zeke wrote: I think I'm probably toast against some of the power builds like the graveguard death star, but not sure what I can do there...


really cant offer much advice as haven't expanded much into other armies, but reading from VC posts wouldn't your flaming cannon and runes of burning help out with a GG deathstar? from what lists I have read they always have that regen banner so you should bypass a little of their protection?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2232129.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2232129.page GMT Bringing Relentless in to 8th (2500 Dwarfs)
RiTides: Definitely double hammerers in this case. It gets me 20 points I'd really like to have and is stronger to boot. I've really been happy with all the WS 5 strength 6 attacks, so I'm going to see about going down that route soonly.

RZ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2232405.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2232405.page GMT Re:Bringing Relentless in to 8th (2500 Dwarfs) BSB's armor other than that looks good.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2241643.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2241643.page GMT Re:Bringing Relentless in to 8th (2500 Dwarfs) BSB has the master rune of gromril. It is just hard to tell when it isn't listed out.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2241705.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2241705.page GMT Bringing Relentless in to 8th (2500 Dwarfs)
I ran this through a 3 game local tourney today- and learned some things. No pictures as the camera was with the better half, but I will post a Relentless Lite to summarize in the next few days.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2242792.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2242792.page GMT Bringing Relentless in to 8th (2500 Dwarfs)
Red_Zeke wrote:I will post a Relentless Lite to summarize in the next few days.

Excited SKWEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2243294.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2243294.page GMT Bringing Relentless in to 8th (2500 Dwarfs)
Of course, I like to bond FW and take Etherials for similarly fluffy reasons.


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2259437.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2259437.page GMT Bringing Relentless in to 8th (2500 Dwarfs) BSB of his runes of furnace, flaming, and preservation in exchange for the master rune of challenge, but decided to leave it as is for a while.

Ran it out against a Shadow Slann army last night- 2 blocks of 30 saurus, 2 x 10 chameleon, 3 salamanders, 4 individual jungle swarms, 9 cold one cav with a scar vet, a skink scroll caddy, and a tricked out Slann.

Accidentally blew up the organ gun on the first shot, and didn't find a way to deal with the salamanders who crippled both units of hammerers. The central fight was a close run thing, but despite depleting the saurus, I was only able to contain shadow magic for so long before it finally swung the combat enough to where I was losing.

Things could've gone either way turns 3-4, but in the end, the lines collapsed and I gave up a massacre (!)

Pretty happy with the heavy magic defense, as it gave me a shot at holding strong (and even ate Occam's).

Going to keep everything as is for another few games to try to continue to get comfortable with something so different from my usual...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2272209.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2272209.page GMT Re:Bringing Relentless in to 8th (2500 Dwarfs)
Best of luck in your battles.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2272453.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2272453.page GMT Bringing Relentless in to 8th (2500 Dwarfs) IMO) there is no reason to take a Lord when two Smiths will do the job just as well and be more survivable.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2274282.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2274282.page GMT Bringing Relentless in to 8th (2500 Dwarfs)
Nagashek wrote:I wouldn't bother with a RL, honestly. They're twice the pts of a rune smith for twice the benefit, except that it's one character instead of two, uses up Lord pts, and is easier to snipe. If you aren't using an anvil (and its randomness is the antithesis of Dwarven engineering, IMO) there is no reason to take a Lord when two Smiths will do the job just as well and be more survivable.


So better to just run two smiths for extra redundancy? Will have to look into this at higher points fights. Thanks.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2274408.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2274408.page GMT Bringing Relentless in to 8th (2500 Dwarfs) WS 6 for a little better protection. I'm already having some trouble hiding the one of him, not sure where I'd stash two.

It is a good point, though. Currently, I'm certainly in an all the eggs in one basket situation. I just don't see a good way to protect the eggs if I split them up...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2275207.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2275207.page GMT Re:Bringing Relentless in to 8th (2500 Dwarfs)
Chris]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2275248.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2275248.page GMT Bringing Relentless in to 8th (2500 Dwarfs)
With swift stride and long charges it gives me a much better chance to run down/run off enemy units. It also serves to flee and redirect, though this is made difficult by it's high points value.

Basically, I've included it because it provides something you just can't get anywhere else in the list- which is to say, a great deal of mobility.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2275390.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2275390.page GMT Bringing Relentless in to 8th (2500 Dwarfs)
That being said, in the next couple days, I'm going to try to summarize what's been going on with the list using brief summaries and anecdotes from the last 10-12 games.

It's been largely successful, though I don't know if it has the legs to place high in a GT. More thoughts on that later.

In short- watch this space, or a similar one over in Battle Reports...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2397902.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2397902.page GMT Bringing Relentless in to 8th (2500 Dwarfs)
...but I don't think Dwarfs have much of a choice in this sort of style. They really seem to benefit that sort of thing (all to fit the feel of "hopelessly outnumbered, backs against the wall, singing their death songs" sort of feel, I suppose).

And that hasn't really changed since 7th, I think (except, in 8th, you've got a much better chance. And use bigger axes). This whole revolution about characters with little to no magical protection has me thinking, though. It's not like a Dwarf Lord can ever be invincible, so you might as well build him to kill as much as he can before he dies. Or at least not worry about it too much when he does. A 4+ Ward is still only 50/50...when you get your Ward, these days...

...you've got me thinking, I'll say that. I'm usually a pretty defensive player (odder still that Dwarf tactics don't appeal to me...and that Skaven ones do), so this is all hard to swallow for me. But anyway, good luck.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2398021.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/332942/2398021.page GMT