Darragh wrote:I'd get shot of one of the 'fish, and a team of B'sides, put in a Railhead and a Pathfinder team, Also Fireknives aren't really that effective, a FireStorm is more effective against Geqs and just as effective against Meqs

Also try to utilise the special issue gear for the commander, the Airbursting Frag Projector is especially good.

Flinty wrote:You've got a lot of high strength shots in there, but I thik it will struggle against horde type armies.

I think firestorm is plasma rifle and burst cannon. Personally I think its a waste of a hardpoint to put a burst cannon on a crisis suit. If you want burst cannon you should take Stealth suits.

I would definately recommend a hammerhead for anti-horde duty. You might just be able to afford one in ther if you drop one of the devilfish and convert one of the Fireknife squads into deathrains with TL Missile Pod. Deathrains are pretty cheap and work fantastically well as a dedicated transport hunting squad. Against hordes they are also pretty good at picking off higher toughness suff that doesn't necessarily need the AP3 of the plasma rifle.

Darragh wrote:A FireStorm is Burst Cannon Missle Pod Multi Tracker. Tbh the Railhead will give you alot more flexibility than the B'sides.

guyrevell wrote:I play with a similar style (though different Crisis builds and with drones), and I'd say don't worry about horde armies w/the broadsides, though 3 x 2 is probably better than 2 x 3 (more targets for opponent, potentially 3 dead tanks a turn), the SMS isn't great but its still alright. With the Advanced Stabilization System (considered mandatory unless you take Array's by most players - dawn of war deployment screws broadsides royally, but with the ASS you can move on and shoot, and even get an extra turn or two SMS-ing a horde.

As for Crisis suits, I'd take a squad of Firestorms to add some dakka to make up for the broadsides (maybe 2 squads, with the 'EL joining the remaining fireknife squad), and try to find the points for at least one drone per team (especially since they are gonna go down quickly because of wound allocation - 3 identical models) for lascannons/meltas etc. The AFP is a pretty good weapon, which fits in nicely with the firestorm thing - could try an 'El wMissile Pod/AFP/Array,Multi, 2 x Shield Drone with 3 x 'Ui wMissile Pod/Burst Cannon/Multi, maybe swapping the Array on the 'El for a Positional Relay.

Troops-wise you could drop a squad + transport for a medium unit of kroot, and spend the rest of the points on drones and pathfinders, giving them the FW 'fish as their dedicated transport, and deploying in cover.

At this points level, taking 6 broadsides means you are going to be killing a lot of tanks, very, very fast, and I think taking a Hammerhead instead would weaken this - they are terrible at destroying tanks (without markerlights anyway) and though the blast is great Marines still laugh it off. Hammerheads are better taken in 2s or 3s, with other anti-armour support (also for armour saturation - if you have a single nasty tank and everything else is infantry, you know what that Dropdred/termicide/obliterators/any small melta squad will be heading for!).

Skelly wrote:My favorite models are the battlesuits and broadsides, so my list is insanely suit heavy:

1 Shas'El [Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Target Lock, Tracker] - 92

6 FireW's [D.Fish, D.Pod] - 145
6 FireW's [D.Fish, D.Pod] - 145

3 FireKnives [Multi Tracker] - 186
3 FireKnives [Multi Tracker] - 186
3 FireKnives [Multi Tracker] - 186

3 Broadsides [Leader with Target lock, 2 shield drones, Targeting Array] - 280
3 Broadsides [Leader with Target lock, 2 shield drones, Targeting Array] - 280

Davicus wrote:

Skelly wrote:My favorite models are the battlesuits and broadsides, so my list is insanely suit heavy:

1 Shas'El [Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Target Lock, Tracker] - 92

6 FireW's [D.Fish, D.Pod] - 145
6 FireW's [D.Fish, D.Pod] - 145

3 FireKnives [Multi Tracker] - 186
3 FireKnives [Multi Tracker] - 186
3 FireKnives [Multi Tracker] - 186

3 Broadsides [Leader with Target lock, 2 shield drones, Targeting Array] - 280
3 Broadsides [Leader with Target lock, 2 shield drones, Targeting Array] - 280

You have almost everything that I would have used to make my own Tau list, just lacking one thing.
Without bubble wrapping kroots, how do you intend to keep your suits safe for 4-5turns?

guyrevell wrote:Glad to hear the advice is good

To be honest you'll probably be fine without Kroot wrapping, except against the fastest assault armies. With that many Railguns and Missile Pods, you can safely expect to down most transports very quickly, short of a couple of Land Raiders. With most/all of the enemy on foot, you should just be able to whittle them down until you can kill the squads that close in. One strategy that can be great fun is to destroy nearly all of one flank so when you run out of jump-shoot-jump space you can retreat sideways instead of backwards! Also, having Broadsides later on is pretty convenient (if inefficient) for supporting Crisis squads (ie reducing the number of guys enough for the suits to safely rapid-fire them).

guyrevell wrote:Glad to hear the advice is good

To be honest you'll probably be fine without Kroot wrapping, except against the fastest assault armies. With that many Railguns and Missile Pods, you can safely expect to down most transports very quickly, short of a couple of Land Raiders. With most/all of the enemy on foot, you should just be able to whittle them down until you can kill the squads that close in. One strategy that can be great fun is to destroy nearly all of one flank so when you run out of jump-shoot-jump space you can retreat sideways instead of backwards! Also, having Broadsides later on is pretty convenient (if inefficient) for supporting Crisis squads (ie reducing the number of guys enough for the suits to safely rapid-fire them).

guyrevell wrote:And I haven't found stopping 3 wagons a struggle with Tau anti-tank,

Davicus wrote:

guyrevell wrote:Glad to hear the advice is good

To be honest you'll probably be fine without Kroot wrapping, except against the fastest assault armies. With that many Railguns and Missile Pods, you can safely expect to down most transports very quickly, short of a couple of Land Raiders. With most/all of the enemy on foot, you should just be able to whittle them down until you can kill the squads that close in. One strategy that can be great fun is to destroy nearly all of one flank so when you run out of jump-shoot-jump space you can retreat sideways instead of backwards! Also, having Broadsides later on is pretty convenient (if inefficient) for supporting Crisis squads (ie reducing the number of guys enough for the suits to safely rapid-fire them).

Can you enlighten me how is it that you can reliably stop 3 wagons, or even FOOT SLOgging orks with GHaz for that extra 6 inch fleet, w/o kroot bubble wrapping?
Do your math for me in case i m wrong.

Skelly wrote:Instead of de-railing the thread, could you make a list based on the one I provided that you think would be better?

Guyrevell has done nothing but give helpful advice, but if you think differently, I'd like to see what kind of list it would look like.

syypher wrote:What I've found is let's say I have 10 Termagants bubble wrapping my Tervigon from getting charged. They shoot 1 or 2 little squads at it. Even if they kill 5 or 6, my bubble wrap is efficiently nullified because I have 4-5 models left over... This really isn't going to prevent a charge anymore.

Normally for bubble wraps to be efficient enough you would need a higher body count so the opponent is actually "wasting" fire on it because they would have to dish out a considerable amount of fire, or you would need to make them tougher somehow. Ex. Casting Catalyst (FNP) on my bubblewrap so they have to shoot at my T6 hard to wound models. This let's my bubble wrap keep its purpose to prevent charges to my Tervigon. Oh and I can poop bubble wraps out...

Or you can just do 2's and have a partner bubble wrap for you with a CC efficient army and forget the Kroot

guyrevell wrote: Also I think 9 FireKnives (or a mix of 'storms and 'knives could quite easily wreck a large amount of scout boosting Koptas with a little markerlight support. Thats also why your mathhammer is a little flawed - it doesn't take into account (and can't really, being maths) the fact that Pathfinders will be reducing the enemy's cover saves, and that virtually all of the results on the chart are at least satisfactory for one turn, or that it might simply not be a big issue that the Wagon gets to move, because next turn a Crisis unit are going to deepstrike and shoot the back AV. I'll heartily acccept that 6 'sides, in a straight shooting contest, would get the result you suggested.

Dorion wrote:Looks more or less like my own 1500 point list. Fireknifes are the right choice, Burst cannons on Crisis suits is nonsense.
I think 6 Broadsides is overkill at this point level doubly so with this number of Crisis suits even against a heavy mech list.
People complain about anti-horde but SMS can deal with that.

Skelly wrote:I could drop a squad of firewarriors and devilfish for 20 kroot. Don't know if that'll be suffifcient to bubblewrap 6 broadsides though.

Skelly wrote:I could drop a squad of firewarriors and devilfish for 20 kroot. Don't know if that'll be suffifcient to bubblewrap 6 broadsides though.