<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Lysander's Fail"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Lysander's Fail But my main problem with him is his Bolter Drill ability.
Why in the freaking world would you give a SC who has no ranged weapon and is a close combat monster an ability like that?
I could see Pedro or Sicarius or even Telion with this ability but i don't see its uses for Lysander.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2233727.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2233727.page GMT Lysander's Fail
He's versitile in that respect as a result of having abilities, granted either through special rules OR through stats. Use him as you see fit.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2233741.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2233741.page GMT Lysander's Fail tac termies 4xstormbolters and 1xcyclone

Or as thunder stated, run him with assault termies]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2233746.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2233746.page GMT Lysander's Fail http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2233753.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2233753.page GMT Lysander's Fail http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2233845.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2233845.page GMT Lysander's Fail TL-Bolters prior to an assault. Pedro and Sternguard aren't quite awesome at close combat, but having 3 attacks a model goes a long way towards fixing that.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2233866.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2233866.page GMT Lysander's Fail http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2233888.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2233888.page GMT Lysander's Fail
AbaddonFidelis wrote:yeah. twin linked bolters pwn noobs. really you dont need any other gun....


I'd take twin linked bolters over sternguards with 3 base attacks anyday lol.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2233911.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2233911.page GMT Lysander's Fail http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2235056.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2235056.page GMT Lysander's Fail
I haz done it. It iz lulz.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2235202.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2235202.page GMT Lysander's Fail Lulz and sadness if you ask me.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2235254.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2235254.page GMT Lysander's Fail I enjoy making the same joke over and over again, when it's no longer funny.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2235562.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2235562.page GMT Re:Lysander's Fail
Lysander is good in a tactical terminator or sternguard squad. He is probably not a bad investment even if you don't use the rule, so really getting to use it is just gravy anyways.

I'm not really sure how you could say that twinlinking your weapons is "crap".]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2235659.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2235659.page GMT Re:Lysander's Fail http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2235755.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2235755.page GMT Lysander's Fail

Automatically Appended Next Post:
AF hates bolters.
Lets just move on and enjoy their helpfulness when applied appropriately and with realistic expectations.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2235869.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2235869.page GMT Re:Lysander's Fail
Dracos wrote:How does that kind of sarcasm help a discussion? Are you just trolling?


Best part is the moderators inabilty or unwanting to fix this issue from many users (including some moderators) which is the main reason people post on other, smaller forums.
It's pretty difficult to get a discussion going about anything with these jackasses.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2236083.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2236083.page GMT Re:Lysander's Fail
Dracos wrote:How does that kind of sarcasm help a discussion? Are you just trolling?

dont be so serious.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2236127.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2236127.page GMT Lysander's Fail
AbaddonFidelis wrote:its not crap. its the complete and utter awesome sauce. how could anyone think that twin linking flamers and meltaguns and mastercrafting thunder hammers for a whole army is better than twin linking bolters for a single squad? It's just obviously not so. I dont even care about lysander's close combat ability, honestly. Just gimme that fethin bolter drill.


Comments like this really aren't of any use when people are trying to discuss something. If you don't have anything useful to add -- what a shcok that would be ! -- then please don't post. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2236129.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2236129.page GMT Re:Lysander's Fail
The best I could see would be with 10 Sternguard. 20 rerollable AP 3 shots (helps nullify gets hot too with rerolls), or 20 rerollable shots wounding on 2s is probably the best way to use this special ability.

He can be used in a pure assault unit (TH/SS terms in a land raider) and just ignore the bolter drill. His combat prowess alone is worth the points imo ( Terminator captain with TH/SS, and eternal warrior, 1+ wound, mastercrafted str 10 ap 1). 1 extra wound and Eternal warrior is huge! ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2236167.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2236167.page GMT Lysander's Fail
He is an absolute house in close combat and deserves alot of respect there!!!

I would like to see him with tactical terminator squad and attach a libby with gate and get busy!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2236175.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2236175.page GMT Lysander's Fail http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2236199.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2236199.page GMT Lysander's Fail
In so many of the codices the named characters are all over the place - some are no-brainers whilst others require you to be lobotomised before they look good.

Needless to say I've switched to a fluffy Salamanders list instead.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2236234.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2236234.page GMT Lysander's Fail
LavuranGuard wrote:I was looking long and hard at why you'd take Lysander, and despite really wanting to do a fluffy IF army I couldn't see how he'd ever be worth the points. Given Vulkan is streets better and cheaper who wouldn't want to use him instead (or Kantor)?

In so many of the codices the named characters are all over the place - some are no-brainers whilst others require you to be lobotomised before they look good.

Needless to say I've switched to a fluffy Salamanders list instead.


Lysander is a character to be taken for his combat prowess alone. There are few enemies that can withstand his str 10 ap1 onslaught, and he is hard as nails. Lysander would bend he'stan over a barrel and make him scream. He also has the underatted bolster defenses rule (give your objective holders a 2+ save when going to ground). Bolter drill is just a throwback to his old sergeant upgrade character and should be ignored for the most part.

He'stan is a character to be taken for his twin linking goodness. This also pigeon holes you into making most of your army woefully short range, basicly making it an auto-loss against DE with nightshields and a hard time with long range IG and eldar flying circus. Make sure to take some long range support if you use him!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2236276.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2236276.page GMT Re:Lysander's Fail http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2236572.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2236572.page GMT Lysander's Fail TH/SS terminators to arrive by deepstrike, close enough to help Lysander if he needs it. Combine that in your list with a tactical squad on a home objective, with the free missle launcher or multi melta and theres a very strong core of a force. Lysander is the whole reason i play Imperial Fists!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2236627.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2236627.page GMT Lysander's Fail
That said, the last time I faced him my opponent had him leading a unit of GK terminators. The whole thing was sick in HTH and was able to spray out a lot of accurate SB fire once I blew up their LR and didn't immediately give them great targets for assault. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2236647.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2236647.page GMT Lysander's Fail
sourclams wrote:Lysander with 20 Sisters of Battle.

I haz done it. It iz lulz.


I lulzed...

then I realized you ment in game.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2236956.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2236956.page GMT Lysander's Fail CC combat monster not a sternguard.

Bolter drill is a minor perk of a CC monster that works well if he goes into a unit of sternguard. Sternguard in a drop pod are very vulnerable to being charged after they land, so the idea of throwing a CC monster into the sternguard has merit.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2237033.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2237033.page GMT Lysander's Fail
AbaddonFidelis wrote:yeah. twin linked bolters pwn noobs. really you dont need any other gun....


20 bolter shots is enough to put a damper on anything's day, aside from T6 stuff. Do not underestimate the basic guns.

Anyway, As stated before, Lysander is best used for his ability to flatten almost anything in CC. Running him with assault terminators only amplifies this ability.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2237080.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2237080.page GMT Lysander's Fail I use Lysander and I never attach him to Assault termies... they're good on their own.
Put him in a sternguard instead and you will get:
-rerollable AP 3 weapons, poisoned 2+ or ignore cover for petty guardsmen in cover...
- Stubborn at Ld 10 for 'em
- Incredible cover saves for your devs or your objective holders
- resistance to sternguards!!!! You can let em live longer against plasmas and similar stuff assigning wounds to lysander!! he has four and decent chance of saving from everything so.... maybe at the end of each shooting phase you have one more sternguard...
- A close combat monster: who said the better way to defeat sternies is to assault them... fear my 3 S 10 ap1 attacks!!!

... and it's.... 200 points... you have to choose an hq anyway... in SM dex the other options are the majestic vulkan (melta LS spam urrah!!!), pedro, maybe cassius for his ludicrous T6 ...
anyway you can't spend less than 150 for a decent hq... why not spending 200 for a LOT of advantages???
I never play lysander with termies and I think He's worth his points anyway....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
p.s. ... if you look at my signature You won't see lysander armies... I use his rules of course, to represent DA masters
Zeruel: Vulkan
Khydor: Lysander
Terubel: Lias Issodon (IA 9)
Ghouron: Kantor]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2237083.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2237083.page GMT Lysander's Fail HQ in a list that already has Vulkan in it, riding in a drop pod with Sternguard.

Bolter Drill with Sternguard and Tactical Termies is great, bolster defenses isn't bad and 2+/3++, WE means that a wound that would normally have killed a Marine is getting laughed off. Lysander is wonderful for all these reasons, and that's before you factor in his S10 beatstick. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2237611.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2237611.page GMT Lysander's Fail
AP3 bolters against MEQ
1/18 shots get hot and kill the shooter
1/3 shots kill the target. (33%)
18 shots=6 dead MEQ and 1 dead sternguard

Same AP3 bolters with TL from Lysander
1/54 shots get hot and kill the shooter
4/9 shots kill the target (44%)
18 shots=8 dead MEQ and 1/3 of a dead sternguard

Poison 2+ rounds
Non TL 5/9 hit and wound 55%
TL 40/54 hit and wound 74%

TL makes a big difference with special issue ammo, especially 2+ poison rounds.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2239646.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2239646.page GMT Lysander's Fail http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2240975.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2240975.page GMT Lysander's Fail

Turn one dead C'Tan, if you will forgive the expression, FTW.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2241356.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2241356.page GMT Lysander's Fail
Monster Rain wrote:I like Lysander a lot. You know when I like him best? When he's the second HQ in a list that already has Vulkan in it, riding in a drop pod with Sternguard.

Bolter Drill with Sternguard and Tactical Termies is great, bolster defenses isn't bad and 2+/3++, WE means that a wound that would normally have killed a Marine is getting laughed off. Lysander is wonderful for all these reasons, and that's before you factor in his S10 beatstick.


Though I run a lot of meltas, I usually do not use Vulkan. 395 points in HQ, and lacking my precious Librarian is just something that this marine player cannot bare to do. I also see stubborn as better when getting that close to the enemy. It tarpits them when my tacs do get charged, and my power fists have won more than one combat because they killed their enemy through attrition.

Apples to oranges, I suppose ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2241549.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2241549.page GMT Lysander's Fail
Brother-Thunder wrote:Though I run a lot of meltas, I usually do not use Vulkan.


My luck with "to-hit" rolls is sufficiently horrible that I actually need Vulkan.

Brother wrote:-Thunder395 points in HQ, and lacking my precious Librarian is just something that this marine player cannot bare to do.


It's a hard trade-off, for sure. I would only do this in 2,000+ games and I nearly always have a Librarian. I usually find that having that S10 thunder hammer on a 4 would EW character charging out of a Land Raider tends to help me a lot more than a Psychic Hood or Null Zone, but YMMV.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2241556.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/333982/2241556.page GMT