<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Spreading out the troops"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Spreading out the troops

- As models can only move as far as the slowest model, if one of your guys is forced to go through rough terrain, your whole squad will slow down.

- The way that shooting rules are spelled out now, If any of your models are in range of an enemy squad, that whole squad could, theoretically, shoot at you while only a few of your models would be able to return fire.

- While you aren't likely to have more than one or two guys hit by a small blast, four from a large blast, and probably about four from a template, it is equally unlikely that a blast template will scatter and miss, as your squad will have such a large footprint.

- It doesn't look as cool to have your guys spread out that much (this is subjective, but looking at the bat reps on dakka dakka, people seem to agree)

- The squad is easier to engage in close combat. (unless shot at immediately prior to charging)

- The huge space that your squad takes up can hamper your own movement.

- (I'm sure there are other undesirable consequences for spreading your troops out, please explain them to this humble noob)


So what, if there exists one, is the happy medium?

For a starting example, as obviously this "perfect coherency" depends on the amount of blast templates you're facing, I'll use my current 2500 army list that has 12 str 6 ap 5 small blasts, and 6 str 4 ap 6 small blasts]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/334103/2235768.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/334103/2235768.page GMT Spreading out the troops
If you're facing someone with loads of template weapons, spread out. If you're facing someone with none, bunch up.

Sometimes you'll want to spread some guys out (say, to reach an objective) and bunch others in the same unit up (say, to make sure that half the squad is also in the area terrain).

There is no single answer.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/334103/2235787.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/334103/2235787.page GMT Re:Spreading out the troops
Under what circumstances do you spread out and why? How far do you spread out and why?

Under what circumstances do you cluster together and why? How close are your models compared to eachother?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/334103/2235792.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/334103/2235792.page GMT Spreading out the troops
Lord PoPo wrote:- As models can only move as far as the slowest model, if one of your guys is forced to go through rough terrain, your whole squad will slow down.

Yeah, but that's not terribly likely if you know what you're doing in the movement phase.

Lord PoPo wrote:- The way that shooting rules are spelled out now, If any of your models are in range of an enemy squad, that whole squad could, theoretically, shoot at you while only a few of your models would be able to return fire.

Yes, but they can ALWAYS target the front model, REGARDLESS of how the squad is spaced. Spreading out doesn't make this any worse somehow.

On the contrary, spreading out likely makes it better as it's easier to get 50% of your squad behind some cover.

Lord PoPo wrote:- While you aren't likely to have more than one or two guys hit by a small blast, four from a large blast, and probably about four from a template, it is equally unlikely that a blast template will scatter and miss, as your squad will have such a large footprint.

Yes, it does make it more likely that your opponent will do SOME damage instead of NO damage, but blast templates hit as often as they miss, and I'd much rather take a 90% chance that my opponent will hit 1 model with his plasma cannon than a 50% chance that they will hit 12.

Lord PoPo wrote:- It doesn't look as cool to have your guys spread out that much (this is subjective, but looking at the bat reps on dakka dakka, people seem to agree)

True, but such is life in 40k.

Lord PoPo wrote:- The squad is easier to engage in close combat. (unless shot at immediately prior to charging)

Exactly, UNLESS SHOT.

Spread-out units are MUCH easier to prevent unwanted close combats as just a couple of casualties can easily add inches to the amount of ground they need to cover to get to you.

Also, on the flip side, spreading your squads out makes it easier to engage in assault yourself, if that's your thing.

Lord PoPo wrote:- The huge space that your squad takes up can hamper your own movement.

How? If anything, it should help because you don't have to deal with the can't move through your own models bother.

Lord PoPo wrote:- (I'm sure there are other undesirable consequences for spreading your troops out, please explain them to this humble noob)

The only problem with spreading out is that it dilutes your force concentration. You gain lots of advantages (including better field position), but in very large units, it means that you can have problems delivering the most fatal punch you can. Think of orks charging in where they can only manage to make like 6 or 8 of them get into close combat. That's a pretty whimpy waaaaugh, and now orks are stuck in a long-drawn-out close combat, in which they are ill-designed to excel.

Lord PoPo wrote:So what, if there exists one, is the happy medium?

Not really. If your opponent doesn't bring any blast or template weapons, then you can kind of bunch them up a bit.

The first sight of a large blast template, and my army instantly starts looking like this:



]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/334103/2235796.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/334103/2235796.page GMT Spreading out the troops


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It's gamey, but them's the rules and they are rules that let your units live longer vs. blast/template weapons.

Win/win for the most part...I guess the only problem is the somewhat large footprint...but chances are a unit that expands so much is expect combat at some point.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/334103/2235879.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/334103/2235879.page GMT Spreading out the troops
also many people will "checkerboard" a squad when it spreads out, Big AL up there makes his squads into a tangles spiders web with some models being farther apart than others, but the whole thing being still within coherency, it makes picking where to drop a blast more difficult.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/334103/2236189.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/334103/2236189.page GMT Spreading out the troops
Grundz wrote:also many people will "checkerboard" a squad when it spreads out, Big AL up there makes his squads into a tangles spiders web with some models being farther apart than others, but the whole thing being still within coherency, it makes picking where to drop a blast more difficult.

Yes, I make "please don't use large blast templates on me" bubbles with my infantry. They're sort of like perverse conga lines...





One could say it's cheaty to spread out against artillery fire, but come on, spreading out against artillery is just common sense. Were the British "cheating" in the first world war when they stopped marching in tight columns and started marching in widely-staggered formations?

I think because people WANT artillery to hit massed little piles of guys, it somehow becomes unfair when their opponent uses basic principles of warfare to thwart them.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/334103/2236318.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/334103/2236318.page GMT Spreading out the troops
Ailaros wrote:

One could say it's cheaty to spread out against artillery fire, but come on, spreading out against artillery is just common sense. Were the British "cheating" in the first world war when they stopped marching in tight columns and started marching in widely-staggered formations?


Yes.. Yes they were.

Ailaros wrote:
I think because people WANT artillery to hit massed little piles of guys, it somehow becomes unfair when their opponent uses basic principles of warfare to thwart them.



who says this?

And you raised a point earlier that, even though your squads are spread out, you don't lose mobility because you can move your other squads through the space provided. However, Doesn't this ultimately have the same result as clustering? I realize that you probably aren't going to be trying to move two models through the 2" gap that you, as the pictures show, consistently utilize, but even if moving a single model through each 2" gap, you're effectively reducing the affect that spreading out in the first place correct?

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/334103/2236757.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/334103/2236757.page GMT Spreading out the troops
As for who says it's cheaty, I've had people on dakka that they'd refuse to play me if I moved like I did in the above pictures. Even when it's not so specific, there is this feeling among some people that the use of proper spacing is taking advantage of some technicality in the rules and ideally shouldn't be allowed. You can even see it in this thread already:

Sanctjud wrote:It's gamey, but them's the rules and they are rules that let your units live longer vs. blast/template weapons.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/334103/2236777.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/334103/2236777.page GMT Re:Spreading out the troops
sure i don't like it(Really REALLY don't like it ) when people do it and i have a bunch of blasts, but it's a tactic to avoid blasts and i do it myself alot.

if it lets you win games do it. it also adds a modicom of reality into the game(as real as a game with 10ft super soldiers and lazer guns can get )]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/334103/2236966.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/334103/2236966.page GMT Spreading out the troops The reason I bring it up is because I don't like doing it, but it is (sadly) a necessity and it just doesn't 'look' right for little toy soldiers.

But these are just personal issues with it, preferences that others may or may not share obviously.

IMO, another one up for Warmahordes.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/334103/2238008.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/334103/2238008.page GMT