<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "2500 Point Tournament Skaven List"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/93.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net 2500 Point Tournament Skaven List BSB or in the Monk unit. Any ideas on that one? Spell-wise its all Plague with the Priest rolling first to mitigate the Seer’s rolls.

Lords:
-Warlord, War-litter, Warlock-augmented Weapon, Enchanted Shield, Talisman of Preservation-225

-Grey Seer, Power Scroll-275

Heroes:
-Cheiftain, Shield, BSB, Storm Banner-122

-Plague Priest, Lvl1, Flail, Plague Furnace-254

Core:
-40*Clanrats, shields, standard+musician, poisoned wind mortar-257

-40*Clanrats, shields, standard+musician, poisoned wind mortar-257

-40*Clanrats, shields, standard+musician, poisoned wind mortar-257

Special:
-35*Plague Monks, Standard-255

10*Gutter Runners, Slings, Poisoned Attacks-180

Rare:
-Hell Pit Abomination-235

-Warp Lightning Cannon-90

-Warp Lightning Cannon-90

Total=2497

Fortitude=7
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/335840/2264679.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/335840/2264679.page GMT 2500 Point Tournament Skaven List bsb should have the storm banner (since you dont have stormvermin) and give the monks the plague banner, because it makes them awesome.

also, as i love them, get two doomwheels, since they of course, eradicate big threats. against multi-wound models, they can be a nightmare. also, they survive more often than the hpa.

another tip is not to take the runners in such small numbers]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/335840/2267041.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/335840/2267041.page GMT 2500 Point Tournament Skaven List BSB or the Monks. I feel the Monks are better for this as the Lore of Death can effectivly snipe my BSB. Whether or not that is relavent as by then the BSB should have the Banner activated, I don't care.

2) I too like the doomwheel, but they are worse in combat then the HPA. Sure they are better against multi-wound models, but I really don't have much a problem with those. I'm curious how you say they survivie more then an HPA. Mine always were killed quite easily without much fuss.

3) Runners can only be in units of 5-15, running them at 10 is all I can with the points I had. Last night I played a game against Dwarfs and 10 seems like enough. Those 'few' were able to rock through both his organ guns and were heading for the cannons, which would have fallen just as quickly.

In total I'm unsure that those suggestions actually make my list any better. I don't think it would make it worse, neccicarily, but I think my points above illistrate reason as to why not to do them.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/335840/2267976.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/335840/2267976.page GMT 2500 Point Tournament Skaven List BSB is far more important. Those re-rolls turn goodness into greatness. Give him the Armour of Destiny.

Though keep in mind, with the cannons and the mortars and the 'Runners, the Storm Banner hurts you too.

- With all the flaming attacks now, the A-Bomb is much less survivable. Less than Doomwheels? Not sure. But the Wheels are not nearly so good as they used to be, what with the same maneuverability as the 'Bomb.

- And for this "small" unit of Gutter Runners, I ask you: why so big? What's the difference between one unit of 10 and two units of 5, except that the latter can shoot or charge at two targets each turn? Besides, only six of them can fight against a war machine anyway.

Other suggestions: (1) get a catapult, and drop a cannon (for variety), (2) drop a mortar for a thrower for the same reason, (3) get spikes on your A-Bomb. At 15 points, it's a steal. Carin Wraiths, transcendant Slaan, and ethereal-vampire-turned-dragons are in for a surprise. You could drop some Monks or a 'Runner for the points.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/335840/2270686.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/335840/2270686.page GMT 2500 Point Tournament Skaven List
2)-The Storm Banner has never really effect me, as it usually cancels itself on my turn.

3)-Huh? Flaming attacks haven't really been a problem in my area. Can't tell you why on that one.

4)-This is an interesting idea. I'll try it out and see how it goes. The only advantage 10 has is one more rat needs to die to force a panic. I'll make sure to try this out in my next game and see how well it works.

5)-catapult for cannon: I don't see this as I find the cannon better. Variety doesn't matter as much for me as my cannons will be different enough.

6)-drop a mortar: I disagree with this, as I believe clanrats need a weapon team to be worth anything. Plus they help deal with armor and consistantly have done good for me. They're also one of my favorite models, so I'm biased.

7)-I don't see that as reason enough for the 15 point upgrade. Again my cannons can take down things like slanns and dragons with ethereal. The wraiths I'm confident I can magic away. However, I do see the point of such an upgrade and if I fin the need for it will gladly find the points for it.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/335840/2271399.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/335840/2271399.page GMT 2500 Point Tournament Skaven List
1- Yes, I see that you don't have the points (as it's not in your list, and your list is done...and people don't make lists with 50 points unspent). What I'm saying is, make the points. It's worth it.

2-3 Okay, I've talked to a lot of people who say things like "well, I don't use that, because it's never worked for me". And I'm here to say: Dice are random. I'm talking statistics, here, not what has or hasn't worked out in your games in the past (for, I couldn't actually contribute to that thread).

And as for flaming attacks not being in the area, same concept, man. I'm talking about general suggestions that lead to a well-balanced list.
And the magic banner is ten points...

4- Yeah, 10 needs 4 to panic. But two groups of 5 need, effectively, 4 to panic. And they can't all be killed in the same volley. When it comes to 'Runners, they'll die if your opponent wants them to. And they don't have much for Ld. So I say, let 'em have some, but make 'em work for the rest.

5- I assume your cannons are different in terms of the models? The catapult is a worthy device, with a much higher potential and a more limited range of targets. I just suggested it because everyone and his breeder fields two cannons, and even though a catapult and a cannon will probably do the same thing, your opponent will like you better because it's not all the same.

6- So...you see I suggested to drop the Mortar for a Thrower, right? Most people will agree that those things are better than the Mortars now. And it's the same thing with variety. My opponent looks at the table, and sees three Mortars. Even if they're not "the best", he's probably going to assume that I think they are, and that I'm bringing a mess of them to the table to win. Now, if I've got a Thrower in there, that pattern won't be there. So even though I'm doing the same thing (or more), he likes me better.

7- Here's a question: what happens if your A-Bomb gets into combat with something you couldn't kill beforehand, and you essentially lose those 235 points? I know you've got plenty of shooting, and pretty good magic, but hey, it happens. "Like, 1 in 10 games" you say, and to that I say "Fif. Teen. Points.".]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/335840/2272011.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/335840/2272011.page GMT Re:2500 Point Tournament Skaven List ) really just does not seem worth it to me in the long run. With those extra points you could easily add a bunch of things to make your list a little better, change up some items, ect. I do have to agree that a plaugeclaw catapault would be nice and it would fit your list as you seem to have a pestilence heavy theme going on. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/335840/2272041.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/335840/2272041.page GMT Re:2500 Point Tournament Skaven List
1)-I still don't know 50 points is a lot, and I'm not sure where to find it without dropping something important.

2 & 3)- S0 far you are the only person off of two sites who have even mentioned these possibilities. To that I have this to say. Strom Banner statisticly won't effect me that much. All my guns don't use BS so its 4+s all around. So I need a 4+ to see if it even affects me, and after that half my machines still work. I'm okay with that. That Banner itself wouldn't be needed if I didn't have to fight better shooting armies, like Empire and Dwarfs. That item by itself has made all the difference with those two.

4)- I can see the validity in this, thus why I'm going to try it out.

5)-I've got the old one, and am waiting for wave 2 for the second. As you say everyone runs them, well that is because they are really good. Still there are two things that make it better then the catapult for me. Fist I just like the model better, not a reason as far as performance, but still. Second I am one of three Skaven players out here and the other two run either catapult+catapult or cannon+catapult. Something else that I feel makes a difference may be area. You say your opponents like variety, well mine don't care. No one here puts a different unit in for S&Gs unless it really doesn't matter. Also they somewhat expect it from me, with the hordes of guys and all.

6)-Catapults better then Mortars? I disagree with that. The catapults will wound most targets on 6s, baring elves, but have a larger blast. Mortars wound on 5s, but have a smaller blast. Both are good, but the Mortar is cheaper and is a Clan Skryre weapon, thus I like it more.

7)-I don't just throw my A-bomb around. It doesn't fight head on, if I can help it, and usually fights always on the flank. I'm saying the magic attacks are uneeded as etheral shows up in none of my games.

@gmaleron: As I state above, against armies that out shoot me it tips the balance in my favor. Even if it only lasts for a turn, which it has gone longer, that is a turn they won't be shooting me as bad.

Also my army is a Warlod army with more clan Skryre in it then Pestilence. With only two clan Pestilance units how did you come to the assumption it was the majority that?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/335840/2272206.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/335840/2272206.page GMT 2500 Point Tournament Skaven List IMO. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/335840/2272228.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/335840/2272228.page GMT 2500 Point Tournament Skaven List
A funny sidenote my army as is incorperates all the factions of a skaven army. Seer, Warlord, and the four Greater Clans.

The Storm Banner is reliable. It will 100% mess up a turn of enemy shooting, and has only a 50% chance to mess with my own. I find it too useful to skip. It also does more then stop shooting if you don't know. It grounds flyers, which can allow my units to charge it and hold the beast. Got Kairos himself that way. Big Old Chicken can't handle two blocks of Clanrats, one buffed with Bless with Filth, and a A-bomb.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/335840/2272315.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/335840/2272315.page GMT 2500 Point Tournament Skaven List Warpfire Thrower. 'Cause they're, ya' know. Kind of the same, but a little different.

Also...clearly, you like the cannon model better than the catapult one, as the latter does not exist.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/335840/2278259.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/335840/2278259.page GMT 2500 Point Tournament Skaven List
Anyways here is a newly redone version of the list after some thinking during the holiday. Added in two big slave blocks. On to those throwers I could drop some slaves to get one and maybe put some musicians in to those slave blocks. does 40-45 slave blocks work?

Lords:
-Warlord, War-litter, Shield, Sword of Might, Dragonhelm, Talisman of Preservation-203
-Grey Seer, Power Scroll-275

Heroes:
-Cheiftain, Shield, BSB -72
-Plague Priest, Lvl1, Flail, Plague Furnace-254

Core:
-30*Clanrats, shields, standard+musician, poisoned wind mortar-212 (5by6)
-30*Clanrats, shields, standard+musician, poisoned wind mortar-212 (5by6)
-30*Clanrats, shields, standard+musician, poisoned wind mortar-212 (5by6)
-50*Slaves-100 (5by10)
-50*Slaves-100 (5by10)

Special:
-29*Plague Monks, Standard, Storm Banner-263
-5*Gutter Runners, Slings, Poisoned Attacks-90
-5*Gutter Runners, Slings, Poisoned Attacks-90

Rare:
-Hell Pit Abomination-235
-Warp Lightning Cannon-90
-Warp Lightning Cannon-90

Total=2497
Fortitude=7]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/335840/2286927.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/335840/2286927.page GMT 2500 Point Tournament Skaven List
Mathematically, the Warpfire Throwers are more reliable (same chance to misfire, but a much larger template and a much smaller range of movement). The Mortars can move and shoot, so they make up for it in this respect, but in terms of firing, the 'Throwers should, on average, hit and kill more often.

Once again, though, I doubt that 30 Clanrats will stand up to much. I'd drop one unit to bulk the others out to 40-50, and get a 4+ Ward on the BSB.
Besides that, there's not a lot here I wouldn't expect in a competitve Skaven list.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/335840/2289269.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/335840/2289269.page GMT