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Lizard Set-Ups - 1k/1.5k

Avatar 720 — GMT

Well, I dabbled around in Fantasy during 7th with my lizards (fantastic WDL ratio of 0-0-7 and an even better ratio of Slann snake-eyes on the miscast chart surivials and deaths during my 4 2k games despite having cupped hands of 1-3) and when 8th edition came out, I kinda stopped playing (i'd only just learned 7th edition; it was demoralising to buy another brick and memorise a changed version of what you'd only just finished learning. It's like memorising the dictionary only to find out all the words now have different meanings).

I had my first 8th edition game on Wednesday with my Tzeentch WoC vs Khornate Daemons (my first ever win of Fantasy) and that was a small 1k game (still not ready for 2k games and the introduction of if-this-spell-goes-off-you-lose armies). I'm now looking to restart my Lizards as 1k and 1.5k, but i've hit a metaphorical brick wall - What I want =/= what makes a lizardmen army even mildly competative.

I liked 7th edition where melee heroes could deal some serious damage without getting sniped by a spell or cannonball in turn 1 or ground into dust by a cheaper lord with more/better options. But now it seems like when I can use an Oldblood at under 2k points (where a Slann would usually be the better choice) he's too expensive for what he does. I like tooling up my characters because I like being able to expand his backstory. Saying "Valiant Lord X rides fearlessly into battle with a hand weapon and shield" doesn't have the same effect as "clad in his shimmering armour of destiny, a glowing dawnstone hanging around his neck with a solid gold chain, and wielding the ferocious halberd ". But it seems like what an oldblood can do in 1k-1.5k, a scar veteran can do cheaper and just as well.

My initial set-up (as you may have guessed) is:

Oldblood w/ Armour of Destiny, Dawnstone, Venom of the Firefly Frog, Halberd - 238pts

Venom not only poisons the halberd, but also makes it magical in case I run into something ethereal or otherwise immune to mundane attacks; dawnstone + AoF gives me a re-rollable 2+ AS and a 4+ ward; halberd makes me a mighty S6.

My BSB set-up is:

Scar Veteran w/ BSB, Enchanted Shield, Light Armour - 130pts

2+ save, but no ward; would it be worth investing into getting him the Glyph Necklace for the 5+ ward or grabbing him Armour of Fortune and a mundane Shield instead of ES + LA?

Skink Priests are another thing; with only 1 dispel scroll able to be taken per army, these guys costing 65pts, being fragile as hell and only having LoH; should I invest much into them? The Curse-charm coupled with the deadlier miscast table might be useful, as might the diadem or the ubiquitous dispel scroll, which leaves either of these:

Lvl 1 Skink Priest w/ Dispel Scroll + Curse Charm - 110pts
Or
Lvl 1 Skink Priest w/ Curse-Charm + Diadem of Power - 110pts

Level 2 is debateable in my opinion; at least for 1k points. How long can I keep a T3 2W model with no armour or ward save alive for? Will the investment be worth it?

Onto skinks; and I don't get cohorts. 5pt models that hit like wet spaghetti and have about as much survivability as a tiger in a poacher's front yard. Yet somehow people are saying that they're good with javs, that they're okay. I see it as horde-bait. We need numbers to get anywhere, and we need more than the average horde, which ramps our cost up. Are they worth investing in? Or are they slightly overhyped?

Skirmishers are a little better (being my MVPs in most games) and I understand taking them.

Saurus... the HW/S vs Spears debate still rolls on, but I have a general idea of what to use and when. Only problem is cost and numbers. At 11/12pts per model, they're hardly cheap, and since combat is almost purely initiative based now AND they have WS3, it seems a bit expensive to go horde, but a bit much to ask a small handful to be as good as the same amount of Chaos Warriors. Where's the line drawn? 20 at 5x4? 25 at 5x4? 18-24 at 6x3-4? 21 at 7x3? For 1k-1.5k, what is the best number and deployment? I usually put HW/S in 5 wide, and spears 6 wide, but I can see 7 being good too to maximise frontage.

Cham skinks are also fine.

CoC weren't great to start with, even worse now in my opinion. Is this generally true?

Stegs are thought to be almost necessary at even 1k now; right in thinking this? Which should I choose? Regular of Ancient? Regular is taken from a larger points allowance section and has a giant bow; ancient is hardier but can put the strain on rare points usually used for sallies.

Terradons and Kroxgiors; don't care. Despise them both and they'll rarely, if ever, grace my lists. Final word on these guys.

Temple Guard; what with being unable to use HW/S (unless this was recently cleared up) they become less defensive, but really only for use with a Slann (though I prefer a lone Slann).

Razordons; generally inferior to sallies (or were during 7th and the dawn of 8th); still correct?

Sallies; must-haves (or were at the dawn of 8th); still correct?

Ancient Stegs; see Stegs.

I've intentionally left out Slann and SCs because Slann are a little powerful at 1.5k, and SCs... let's face it, most of them are crap or highly situational. Tetto'eko seems alright; Gor-Rok might be nice vs cavalry/chariot lists; Chakax is debateable.

Anything else I need to know?

Re:Lizard Set-Ups - 1k/1.5k

bleedge — GMT

well, i'll try and give you some advice

oldblood: take the scar vet honestly, for considerably fewer points you get a hero who is almost as good, its not that the oldblood is bad its just the scar vet is undercosted for his brutality
-i like running a mounted scar vet with the BBOC or stick him in a unit of saurus with a great weapon and hide of the old ones

skink priests: because you're not going with a slaan i'd bring a level 2 with a scroll, you will need some magic defense and in eight edition a level 4 is almost mandatory, but you can get away with a level 2. the investment is worth it so that your opponent doesn't have free reign to cast as much as he wants. put the priest in a unit of skirmishers or even cohorts.

cohorts are good to protect the priest but they are even better to be used as throw away units to mess up your opponents battle line. use them to just mess with your opponent but field them in the minimum amounts. i also play with Skrox which are fun but onyl semi competitive. essentially think of them as 35 wound kroxigors, you wont be winning combat rez much but they are great for tearing apart high toughness monsters like bone giants or lone monster characters who can't stop the stubborn.

i <3 skirmishers

Saurus: yup you pretty much got it, run Hw/s 5x anything up to about 5, after that make them 6 wide and give them spears, (spears only become effective when you have about 30 saurus). i knwo some people horde them but its expensive and its basically your whole army so I'd advise against it.

cham skinks: they're okay not great but they do what they need to, which is hunt war machines. they die pretty easily tho and are costly to lose

CoC: anothe runit i like to take because of the fluff but they hit like a bowl fo jello. with a charcater in them they become fairly good but with the new rules for stubborn do not expect them to win a combat on their own (6 of mine lost to 10 WE archers *sigh*)

terradons suck and so do krox but i like them

yea, the temple guard are onyl useful with the slaan, otherwise their overpriced saurus, wityh the slaan they are mosters ebcause stick them in the center of your battle line and they will never die, especially qwith the lore of life. they are my anchor which my army pivots around.

yes razordons are okay but salamanders are simply incredible

Stegadons: take the ancient, its a few more points but the real damage is done on impact hits and the extra point of strength is nice and os is the extra wound. the howdah weapons are next to useless i find anyways unless you take an EOTG which is fun and cn be great or can be a real let down, depending on how much your dice like you.

slaan: yes they are a little powerful at 1-1.5K they are a little powerful at 3K too. this is what makes lizardmen dominate. the core of the army makes it competitive in that we have the best core in the game for the points. however, the slaan really is unstoppable, i've gone magic phases where my opponents stop throne of vines and then let me cats all 6 other spells in the lore of light.

Hope that's understandable

Re:Lizard Set-Ups - 1k/1.5k

Officemax — GMT

Well I usually take a level 2 priest and a level 1 priest for magic and it works most of the time in keeping the enemy's magic not devastating my army.
I sometimes take a horde of 40 saurus that is pretty good in combat and can take a lot of damage with out losing to many attacks.
Salamanders are one of the best things in the race section, great at killing hordes of rats!
You would really not take a slann in such a small army, they are best for high points game and with 20 Temple Guard as their bodyguard to anchor your battle line.
Hope this helps!