<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "What makes you care when someone dies?"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/54.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net What makes you care when someone dies? This page, where mattyrm expressed a disdain for the lives of those he does not know (quote, "I don't give a gak if people I never met and don't personally know died."), I wonder what stages people actually begin to care at?

I was not remotely bothered by the death of, say, Princess Diana. I found her irritating, and I never cared about anything she used to do. Ditto that irritating one from Big Brother who died of Cancer. All very sad for those involved, and I am not happy they are dead or anything nasty like that, but the only impact either of their death's had on me was that when Diana died I was driving for 4 hours that day in a car with a radio but no tape deck, so I had to listen to gak all day.

Pete Postlethwaite, on the other hand, was a wonderful actor who brought lots into my life, including but not limited to his role as Sgt Obadiah Hakeswill in Sharpe, where he defined villainous for me. He was the main influence in a D&D character I played for several years. I also enjoyed his performances in Romeo & Juliet, the Usual Suspects and several other films. It upsets me that I will never see him perform another role. It is made worse by the fact that he seems to have been a genuinely lovely bloke.

So, are you, like mattyrm, someone who does not give a gak if someone dies whom you have never met, or do you find that there are other ways to reach you?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2289620.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2289620.page GMT What makes you care when soemone dies? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2289638.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2289638.page GMT What makes you care when soemone dies?
That's not to say I'm not upset when I hear of deaths from the floods in India or anything. But it is harder to relate to them. Though personally I'm amazed (and a bit sickened) that people here are so upset and are donating so much over the floods happening here in Queensland that have killed 10 people but shrug off death tolls numbering the hundreds if they happened across the water.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2289681.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2289681.page GMT Re:What makes you care when someone dies? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2289755.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2289755.page GMT Re:What makes you care when someone dies? Normaly I can't say I care a great deal when public figures pop thier clogs regardless of what they have done during their lives.
My grief, when it is required, is taken up by close family and friends, the people who deserve it most as they have had the biggest influence on my life and have helped me to become the person I am today. However I do, to an extent, understand the grief which follows the death of a celebrity.
In many cases they have been role models, provided inspiration or simply said something that has cheered us up or helped us through a rough time when others have either not understood or been unable or unwilling to do so themselves.
I will always remember Pete Postlethwaite for his potrayal of Obadiah Hakeswill in Sharpe a series which I loved from the moment it first aired to this day, as such I am saddened by the death of a man who to keep me entertained and amused for such a long time, but that sadness could never, and should never, equal that felt by the death of someone you have a real life relationship with.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2289995.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2289995.page GMT What makes you care when someone dies?
I think my Science background has omitted that emotion from me


Could you explain this in a more detail? I don't recall science requiring one to be emotionally stunted. A person should be able to study the natural world and still feel emotions. Usually when I hear this it is more the case that an individual doesn't have highly visible reaction to someone passing, which is considered the norm somehow, so when they don't have that reaction they think they are not feeling, which I don't believe is true. Just becuase you don't weep every time someone passes doesn't mean you are emotionless or unable to feel.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290011.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290011.page GMT Re:What makes you care when someone dies? OT thread and have a laugh, or continue watching porn.

I feel a bit sorry for someone at that moment, then it goes away the next]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290024.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290024.page GMT What makes you care when someone dies?
If you catch my drift. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290077.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290077.page GMT What makes you care when someone dies?
Because deep down all he wants is a hug. We should all club together and send him on one of those 'sing round the campfire and explore your feminine side' weekends.

If you catch my drift...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290118.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290118.page GMT What makes you care when someone dies?
I dont see why Alb and MGS seem personally upset about things however, but anyway. Thats twice you have personally insulted me MGS, i dont self harm. Its absurd to suggest such a thing, and If you want to come round and see If i have any self inflicted scars I will be happy to PM you my address. You might actually like me in real life.

I took umbrage with "macho bollocks" as that is basically saying "absolute nonsense with no logic behind it"

You can disagree with my logical reasons (see below) by comparing them other reasons you can yourself give, we are all very different people, we disagree about things all the time, but it most certainly aint "macho bollocks"

First of all i find RIP threads to be ridiculous in of themselves, because really, what is the actual point of them? I have known many men shuffle off the mortal coil this year alone, ive never felt the need to make an RIP thread about it, I am of the opinion that it is somewhat crass and it comes across as someone trying to say "look how caring I am" or "I care about this person so you all should too" so I refrain from doing it.

But anyway, lets get down to the meat of it. Ok, im of the opinion that said thread was down to 80% as Patriotism/Nationalism (which i view as intensely idiotic) and 15% Celebrity Worship 5% Genuine sorrow. My argument is simply this.

a. Would MGS have made a thread about another similar actor if he was not British?

More than likely not. The Americans (and my missus) get alot of flak for "flag waving" but I am of the opinon that the British are easily as bad for it.

b. If you have never met or spoken/written/had genuine human interaction with an individual, you cannot be "genuinely" upset about it.

Many personal friends of mine have died these last two years, I was bothered.

Other Royal Marines who I had never met before died, and I wasnt hardly bothered. I felt some sort of bond with them as brothers from the same regiment, but not enough to go and talk about it in the public forum.

Random people die? Not bothered.

Would other actors be more bothered about Pete than random Joes? Perhaps.. i wouldnt know if they have that same feeling of empathy.

c. I feel that most of what people profess to be sympathy as "fake sympathy" because they feel that they should be upset about it, but it isnt real.

In a world with a population as vast as ours, we all harden our hearts to get by. This in itself is somewhat depressing, but it is essential to our own well being yes?

If we all broke down every time we heard about a kid with cancer, a rape, a dead baby, how would we get anything done?

So what does this all mean? Am i sociopath because i dont profess to feel as much sympathy as the next man?

Granted there is also some underlying bitterness, many friends of mine are no longer with us, and nobody is "really" bothered are they?

Perhaps the argument is merely semantic, what does "bothered" actually mean?

I liked PP from the tiny amount i could ascertain from seeing him on film, but seriously, im not bothered.

Why are you?



]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290126.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290126.page GMT What makes you care when someone dies?
mattyrm wrote:Yeah its an interesting topic to be sure..

I dont see why Alb and MGS seem personally upset about things however, but anyway. Thats twice you have personally insulted me MGS, i dont self harm. Its absurd to suggest such a thing, and If you want to come round and see If i have any self inflicted scars I will be happy to PM you my address. You might actually like me in real life.

I took umbrage with "macho bollocks" as that is basically saying "absolute nonsense with no logic behind it"


I wasn't personally insulting you mate, just pulling your chain. Your fond enough of calling me a softy tree hugging pinko liberal after all, if you're going to go about dishing this stuff out, learn to accept it a little more graciously...


As to the rest of your post(s) on this, simply put, I said it was a shame and that we had lost a talent who's work I and others here on this site had enjoyed. It was posted by me to let others on dakka know who might not have heard about it otherwise, I thought it news worthy and let them know. I was not demanding any wailing or gnashing of teeth and myself read it whilst drinking my morning coffee, I commented to the wife that it was a bloody shame and she agreed, we then got on with our days and didn't give it much more thought other than I posted it here and on facefeth.

I have no interest, for example, in your 'mates wot nobody else cares about but I do'. I sympathise with those marines and other soldiers, as I mentioned in the other thread, I have recently lost a friend to the conflict in Afghanistan.

Have you considered meditation btw? You do seem to be the one who's upset about things, not I nor Alby. It might help you calm down.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290167.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290167.page GMT What makes you care when someone dies?
I don't get how recognizing he died meant you were supposed to be bothered. It was never asked of any of us to be bothered, just that we take notice he had died. You seem to think you are being asked for more of a reaction than you actually are.

Also, not everyone hardens their hearts. Don't confuse your worldview with the actual world. While most humans do, not every single one does. Their are some incredibly open and compassionate people out there.

It ia just as insulting to tell others their sympathy is fake as it is for others to tell you how you should react.

I don't see why it is so hard to say "Oh, he died? I enjoyed him in a few movies, that's to bad", and then move on with your day. No one is gnashing their teeth or tearing their clothes, just recognizing someone that almost all of us saw in some capacity over the last 17 years or so ceased to exist. You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of what sympathy means.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290182.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290182.page GMT What makes you care when someone dies? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290196.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290196.page GMT What makes you care when someone dies?
Y ou have basically been giving me sarcy remarks ever since i posted, which indicates somewhat obviously that it is of course you that are angry and upset, not me. Dont give me the "oh here is the worlds smartest man" and "oh look Matty cuts his wrists" and "noone cares wot i duz" and then go "lol! Your upset" when you are being very childish.

Anyway, its neither here nor there and i am being silly as well trying to play the "who overreacts" game with you. Lets move on.

I just dont get why you lost your rag so much, or why it would bother you personally? its not like you an Pete played bridge in the working mens club every Thursday.

I dont really care when people i have never met die, it affects me not a single jot. I dont "miss" them, i dont talk to them, i never did, and the world is a rough place and you just have to crack on. Does it make me an evil man because my tolerance for emotional pain is a tad high? It takes a great deal to upset me. And that is my own personal defininition of being "bothered".

Sorry about your mate in the Gan btw.

Oh and meditation is for poofs. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290200.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290200.page GMT Re:What makes you care when someone dies?
It depends on the individual. Most people feel sympathy when seeing some horrible case on the TV, but they don't "break down" upon hearing it. There is a middle ground between that extreme reaction and not caring. It's easy to feel a little loss or sympathy and then carry on with your day. It's not like you have to take every death either as you would that of a parent or simply not feel moved at all.

My grandfather died a few years ago and I wasn't hugely bothered by it. He'd been ill a long time and I didn't see him that often really, it wasn't a close relationship. I felt like I should be more upset, but I wasn't, I was fine. A few weeks later one of our guinea pigs died and I was desperately upset by it.

I think my Science background has omitted that emotion from me.


I don't think so. I'm from a science background and work with lots of scientists and they don't lose the ability to grieve that I've noticed. I'm quite emotionally deattached on some things and don't get particular upset about much but that's just the individual, it's just being level headed IMO. Doing science doesn't turn you into Mr Spock.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290208.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290208.page GMT What makes you care when someone dies?
I loved David Gemmell, I own every single book he ever read.

He died pretty young, and i was pissed off because he wouldnt write any other books, but was i upset about it?

How could I be? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290223.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290223.page GMT What makes you care when someone dies?
mattyrm wrote: I dont really care when people i have never met die, it affects me not a single jot. I dont "miss" them, i dont talk to them, i never did, and the world is a rough place and you just have to crack on. Does it make me an evil man because my tolerance for emotional pain is a tad high? It takes a great deal to upset me. And that is my own personal defininition of being "bothered".


But words aren't really up for grabs unless you left your wife/girlfriend, your friends, and everyone else and are sitting alone on an island as this is a fever dream as you are having to use words to communicate here. If you are going to invent your own language and definitions there is no way to have a reasonable discussion. You are arguing against things no one has brought up. Recognizing a death isn't the same as it affecting you. Understanding PP died didn't slow my day down any, I just understood he died. None of this has anything to do with a 'high tolerance for emotional pain'. You seem to think recognition means some emotional outburst when it doesn't. If you look up the definition of the word you won't it has anything to do with emotion.

And for someone passing themselves off as having high tolerance for emotions you sure aren't showing it here. You're getting more worked up than anyone ever came close to about PP dieing. Is it becuase you think no one is going to recognize you when you die? Is it jealousy or is it a sense of unfairness that some people get a broader recognition? Just becuase more of us knew someone doesn't mean your friends are any less cared about, just that they aren't international stars; no one is thinking or saying that one is better than the other, just that more people had a shared familiarity with one. You are strawmanning it up all over the place in this and it is a bit odd as to understand why.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290253.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290253.page GMT What makes you care when someone dies?
I was merely pointing out that their is a logic behind it, and it is not simply down to "macho bs"

Explain your reasoning to me. I am "worked up" because i reply to people?

Jelousy? Unfairness? When did i even mention these terms? Are you trying to peg me as one of the cast of Dawsons Creek ? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290266.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290266.page GMT What makes you care when someone dies?
mattyrm wrote:Mate, your kidding me arent you? You fall out with people all the time cos you visibly get super upset, and then you say "oh I dont get upset, whats wrong with all you guys?!" Weren't you on albys ignore list cos you spat your dummy out?

Y ou have basically been giving me sarcy remarks ever since i posted, which indicates somewhat obviously that it is of course you that are angry and upset, not me. Dont give me the "oh here is the worlds smartest man" and "oh look Matty cuts his wrists" and "noone cares wot i duz" and then go "lol! Your upset" when you are being very childish.

Anyway, its neither here nor there and i am being silly as well trying to play the "who overreacts" game with you. Lets move on.


Nope, I was just being sarcastic. This issue doesn't bother me. I am a fairly passionate and opinionated windbag on many things and have very strong convictions over certain issues. In this topic I initially thought your first post in the PP RIP thread was trolling or flamebait perhaps but I then saw your further postings. You don't feel any sort of loss over this actor's death, I feel a sense of sadness (albeit fairly minor) about not seeing him in any new movies. There's the fairly minor difference. You have questioned it and raise an issue where I think there isn't really one. I've not seen anyone else taking your stance on this but several seem to agree that it's ok to pay a moment's respect to someone you've never met if you admired what they did.

The only celebrity death I can think of me being upset over would probably be David Attenborough as his work and programs basically gave me my love of the natural world and I've been a big fan of his books, television and his campaigning. I have a strong admiration for the man as I understand him to be.


mattyrm wrote:
I just dont get why you lost your rag so much, or why it would bother you personally? its not like you an Pete played bridge in the working mens club every Thursday.

I dont really care when people i have never met die, it affects me not a single jot. I dont "miss" them, i dont talk to them, i never did, and the world is a rough place and you just have to crack on. Does it make me an evil man because my tolerance for emotional pain is a tad high? It takes a great deal to upset me. And that is my own personal defininition of being "bothered".


Your use of the phrase 'tolerance for emotional pain' seems to indicate that, again as someone else stated, you see someone paying a moments respect as a weakness and giving in to this 'emotional pain'. Noone here has gone into mourning over the post I made, I wasn't building a shrine or sobbing uncontrollably over it.

If I see those starving kids on the news, I don't roll about on the floor crying about it, but I do feel bad for them, I might send some money to help them and I certainly would like them to have a better life, because I have the ability to empathise and relate as another human being.

In the reverse, I consider you're inability to empathise or understand why others would 'pause for thought' to be a weakness all of it's own. That's not an insult btw, just an observation. It's entirely likely that conflict has hardened your emotions and that's a shame, because for you to reach that state, as you've said, you've had to know people die to violence.

mattyrm wrote:
Sorry about your mate in the Gan btw.


So am I, he was just a bloody kid himself and he left behind a lovely girl who I've known since she was in primary school, and a little baby who will never know him. Bloody waste.

Interesting that you say sorry though, because that's a sentiment isn't it? Expressing condolences and all that. You didn't know the guy and you don't know me, but you can relate to that can't you.

mattyrm wrote:
Oh and meditation is for poofs.


I'm sure the shaolin monks would disagree... ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290267.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290267.page GMT What makes you care when someone dies? I've lost my Grandmother,Mom,a Sister and several very close friends and each of theses passing deeply affected me due to each Pearson being an integral part of my "real" life.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290277.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290277.page GMT What makes you care when someone dies?
mattyrm wrote:
Jelousy? Unfairness? When did i even mention these terms? Are you trying to peg me as one of the cast of Dawsons Creek ?


If the gak fits...


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290281.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290281.page GMT What makes you care when someone dies?
mattyrm wrote:I dont really see how not giving a gak when a famous person dies becomes strawmanning it up?


I suppose you should go look up what a strawman argument is before you refute it. In essence, you are becuase you are arguing against things that no one has presented. You are also being a bit of a hypocrite. If you honestly didn't care, you wouldn't have taken the time to post in a thread to say you don't care. That is how real apathy works. You are wildly overreacting to a post about the news of a well known and liked actor dieing and coming off as unhinged. You don't just seem like you aren't apathetic, you seem angry that others are sympathetic or empathetic. You posted in the thread initially and then you consistently respond, and with vigor. These aren't something an apathetic person does. It is also your choice of words as well that present someone who is feeling nothing. If the Royal Marine training is anything like the US Marine training I would guess that you've suppressed certain human elements to the point where you don't understand something even as slight as saying "oh, he died". It is irritating you far more than it should, and this is fairly common among highly indoctrinated in-groups. Thus why you keep coming back to "macho" definitions and the like. It is a defense shield for combat but problematic when you aren't being shot at. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290305.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290305.page GMT What makes you care when someone dies? MGS, the issue here is simply that we dont actually know each other and we both have a different idea of what "bothered" actually means.

You might be entirely correct, maybe it is a weakness not being more "well rounded", too much Ying and not enough Yang or whatever, but when your in your thirties, well, your too old to change your whole personality arent you?!

I dont even think IRL i am "macho" I mean, i dislike hugs, feel extreme distaste when I see grown men cry and i would never wear a pink shirt, but thats about it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ive seen that Dawson clip a few times and hence his name came to mind..

Ahriman, I wont bother retorting to your psycho analysis because it is entirely off topic, but Alb knows me in real life, and its way off base. However, i can safely say that i am not "crazy macho" because I dont feel i must prove you wrong, and I am more than comfortable with you believing that IRL i am actually extrememly effeminate and the reason i stated i feel the way that I do is because I am actually a girly man and i like watching Hugh Grant movies.

And US marine training is a quarter as long, its extremely easy and they let women in. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290310.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290310.page GMT What makes you care when someone dies?
mattyrm wrote:
I dont even think IRL i am "macho" I mean, i dislike hugs, feel extreme distaste when I see grown men cry and i would never wear a pink shirt, but thats about it.


That's not being macho mate, that's just being British. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290339.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290339.page GMT Re:What makes you care when someone dies?
There's nothing wrong with feeling a sense of loss when someone (famous) you admire dies. I felt this when Leslie Nielson, Richard Pryor, and Captain Lou Albano died, just to name a few. It's not about going into mourning or anything like that (well, maybe when Super Mario died, I mean, c'mon). It's just feeling sad from the point of view that you won't get to enjoy further efforts from them. The very fact that you equate this feeling with being "pissed off" is interesting.

Overall, I gotta say, this topic and your responses kinda remind me of Wicked Sensitive Crew by Dropkick Murphys for some reason:




"Well, if you guys are hard, then I'd rather be soft. I gotta find me some seriously sensitive dudes."]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290348.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290348.page GMT What makes you care when someone dies?
But, I would still never actually mention that I don't care. That wouls make me come off as insensitive even if I'm not. I'd just not say anything. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290350.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290350.page GMT What makes you care when someone dies?
mattyrm wrote:
Ahriman, I wont bother retorting to your psycho analysis because it is entirely off topic, but Alb knows me in real life, and its way off base. However, i can safely same that i am not "crazy macho" because I am more than comfortable with you believing that IRL i am actually extrememly effeminate and the reason i stated i feel the way that I do is because I am actually a girly man and i like watching Hugh Grant movies.

And US marine training is a quarter as long, its extremely easy and they let women in.


myrriamrm, I'm just tossing out ideas here becuase your reaction to the thread is so over-the-top as to be perplexing. You have spent more time arguing about how you don't care and what it means to be sensitive than almost anyone took to recognize someones passing, and no one asked you if you cared, asked you to care, or wanted to know what your ideas of masculine were. You introduced all that into both threads on your own without any coaxing. That doesn't strike you as odd?

Also, one military service talking trash about another? Shocking! Of course we allow women, our service isn't entirely made of poofs!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290365.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290365.page GMT What makes you care when someone dies?
FITZZ wrote: When a celebrity/entertainer/etc,who work I admire passes away I may feel a sense of loss,and in some cases (Joey Ramone for example) even a twinge of sadness,however their is no profound grief involved,simply because no matter how much I admired or enjoyed these peoples works,they was no real emotional attachment to them.
I've lost my Grandmother,Mom,a Sister and several very close friends and each of theses passing deeply affected me due to each Pearson being an integral part of my "real" life.


We have evolved empathy and emotions though, and for most of history we have only 'known' people as those being around us, friends, family and neighbours. When these people are suffering in some fashion we empathise with them. Through TV and media, which are very recent developments relatively speaking, we now 'know' lots of people and simply the same feelings can be stirred with people we've never met. It applied to starving kids on TV from another country. Why should we care? They aren't our family, they don't even know them. Helping them in any fashion is unlikely to benefit us in any way at all. But we empathise with them and are emotionally moved by their plight. It's probably for this reason that some people get very upset when their favourite TV character dies. And I mean "character" not actor. People watching a character in a soap or some other series every week for some years can create emotional attachment to that person and become upset when they 'die'. It may me an evolutionary emotional misfire originally formed for empathising with those strictly in your local area or group, but we didn't evolve watching TV and reading newspapers they just trigger the same feelings, and it doesn't make the feelings less real for the person feeling them.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290456.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290456.page GMT What makes you care when someone dies?
Ultimately mate, its a forum where we just come and shoot the gak. I wasnt commenting because i have "deep and personal" feelings about any of it, or because i "secretly need a hug/girlfriend/mothers love, i was commenting because thats just what we do on here!

I quickly typed in "who cares" because i dont really care that much and i was taking the piss out of MGS a tiny bit by saying "Be a man.. man!" I dont wish to open a massive can of worms, i dont hate PP, Im not a sociopath, i dont actually wish to offend any American marines and i dont really mind if you wish to think that i have hair like David Bowie and i wear leather underpants.

Dont be getting all Freud on me cos i knocked a few posts out. If you ever see me dressed like a French sailor you can say "I told you so"
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290467.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290467.page GMT What makes you care when someone dies?
mattyrm wrote:would never wear a pink shirt


Ahem...



...clearly, after seeing the above, you would.

Was going to post 'True Colours', but that song isn't fun...

Cyndi Lauper wrote:Matty just wan't to have fun...



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mattyrm wrote: i dont actually wish to offend any American marines and i dont really mind if you wish to think that i have hair like David Bowie and i wear leather underpants.


I didn't think you did. I've never met a serviceman who didn't bag on the other branches/services. I thought that was part of the fun of being in the service. You get to make fun of the others.

mattyrm wrote:Dont be getting all Freud on me cos i knocked a few posts out. If you ever see me dressed like a French sailor you can say "I told you so"


Why are you so worried about someone getting 'all Freud' on you? Tell me how that makes you feel.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290495.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290495.page GMT What makes you care when someone dies?
Howard A Treesong wrote:
FITZZ wrote: When a celebrity/entertainer/etc,who work I admire passes away I may feel a sense of loss,and in some cases (Joey Ramone for example) even a twinge of sadness,however their is no profound grief involved,simply because no matter how much I admired or enjoyed these peoples works,they was no real emotional attachment to them.
I've lost my Grandmother,Mom,a Sister and several very close friends and each of theses passing deeply affected me due to each Pearson being an integral part of my "real" life.


We have evolved empathy and emotions though, and for most of history we have only 'known' people as those being around us, friends, family and neighbours. When these people are suffering in some fashion we empathise with them. Through TV and media, which are very recent developments relatively speaking, we now 'know' lots of people and simply the same feelings can be stirred with people we've never met. It applied to starving kids on TV from another country. Why should we care? They aren't our family, they don't even know them. Helping them in any fashion is unlikely to benefit us in any way at all. But we empathise with them and are emotionally moved by their plight. It's probably for this reason that some people get very upset when their favourite TV character dies. And I mean "character" not actor. People watching a character in a soap or some other series every week for some years can create emotional attachment to that person and become upset when they 'die'. It may me an evolutionary emotional misfire originally formed for empathising with those strictly in your local area or group, but we didn't evolve watching TV and reading newspapers they just trigger the same feelings, and it doesn't make the feelings less real for the person feeling them.


Overall I agree with you,I can obviously empathize with the plight of starving children,and was indeed saddened by the passing of people I'd only "known" through various media (Ramone,Carlin and Pryor immediately jump to mind)...and I recall my Grandmother crying because a character in one of "her soaps" (the character not the actual actor) had passed away.

I simply contend that,for me at least,the feeling of grief and loss are much more pronounced with the passing of a person who has actually been "involved" in my life in a personal way.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290528.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290528.page GMT What makes you care when someone dies?
FITZZ wrote: I simply contend that,for me at least,the feeling of grief and loss are much more pronounced with the passing of a person who has actually been "involved" in my life in a personal way.


This is what I don't get. No one has argued we should feel more for a celebrity than a family member. Not once has anyone made that statement, yet it has been refuted several times.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290543.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290543.page GMT Re:What makes you care when someone dies?
Now correct me if I'm wrong, or simply tell me to feth off, but it seems mattyrm has seen plenty of good men killed, almost all of whom will never be noticed by the public, and his view is that if they aren't recognised, why should these people?


And on topic, I don't care when someone dies. I have the respectful "Damn that sucks" and about 1 second of thought to how the family must feel before going about my business.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290569.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290569.page GMT What makes you care when someone dies?
Ahtman wrote:
FITZZ wrote: I simply contend that,for me at least,the feeling of grief and loss are much more pronounced with the passing of a person who has actually been "involved" in my life in a personal way.


This is what I don't get. No one has argued we should feel more for a celebrity than a family member. Not once has anyone made that statement, yet it has been refuted several times.


Don't misunderstand Ahtman,I wasn't attempting refute an argument that,IMO,shouldn't exist.

I readily agree that for many,the passing of celebrities can be a moving experience,and I don't see that as somehow being a "bad" thing (the emotions experienced,not the passing).
I than added that of course one feels that sense of loss more deeply when it is some one whom the person actually knew that passes,but meant that statement as a simple matter of ,what should be,fact,not as an attempt to negate the feelings one has regarding the former.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290624.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290624.page GMT Re:What makes you care when someone dies?
Tim the Biovore wrote:Even though I am fairly confident that mattyrm may have over-reacted a bit


It is the over reaction that has gotten attention, not the sentiment.

Tim the Biovore wrote:is that if they aren't recognised, why should these people?


99.9% of the world will die without being noticed globally. A few people are known throughout the world. The diferrence is fairly simple. Of course there are great monuments to fallen soldiers, not so much to actors and musicians.


Tim the Biovore wrote:And on topic, I don't care when someone dies. I have the respectful "Damn that sucks" and about 1 second of thought to how the family must feel before going about my business.


Have you read the thread?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290689.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2290689.page GMT Re:What makes you care when someone dies? IRL. I wouldn't say he was macho in the Captain Awesome, 'gym-queen' sort of way. He's more of a '50s dad' type.

He hates it, HATES it, when I try to hug him!

On Topic: I will be VERY sad when Pratchett finally goes. Fact.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2291203.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2291203.page GMT Re:What makes you care when someone dies? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2292954.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2292954.page GMT What makes you care when someone dies?
I've noticed that a lot on here actually.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2292996.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2292996.page GMT Re:What makes you care when someone dies? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2293161.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2293161.page GMT What makes you care when someone dies? circumstances that killed the girl are more important to you than the girl herself. That doesn't seem like a "high tolerance to emotional pain", it just seems cold and detached.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2293253.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2293253.page GMT Re:What makes you care when someone dies?
BloodQuest wrote:Wow! Some of you guys are pretty cold!


Albatross wrote:They aren't, they're just trying to act like they are.


Quoted for perfectly timed, apt answer.

On topic:

I have really only been upset at the deaths of two "public figures" if that's the term we've been using. Warren Zevon and more recently, Leslie Neilsen. I wasn't as upset as I would have been had it been someone that I know, but it still bummed me out.

As for more private citizens: The condition of the person's death when I hear about it has a pretty big impact on my reaction to it. Some 97-year old woman who died in here sleep? Good for her, she had a good run.

Something like the Jessica Lunsford incident makes me physically ill.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2293782.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2293782.page GMT What makes you care when someone dies?
LN has been the only person who's death provoked more than a joke or a shrug of the shoulders. There was a moment of "huh..." but it was short-lived.

I'm not completely without emotion, but really there are a select few people i'd honestly grieve for any period of time longer than the day they died, anyone else... sucks to be them.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2293872.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2293872.page GMT What makes you care when someone dies?
Fifty wrote:One of the things that confuses me, mattyrm, is how worked up you get about things you perceive in the world as "injustices", such as the thread on dangerous driving, but then don't care about a person you can put a face to. You got more worked up about a poor faceless person in a news report than Pete Postlethwaite. That in itself is fine, as the whole subject of dangerous driving is one that gets my goat too, but to be so upset about the girl who was killed by the drink driver then pass off Pete with less than a "meh" seems odd. It is like it is the circumstances that killed the girl are more important to you than the girl herself. That doesn't seem like a "high tolerance to emotional pain", it just seems cold and detached.


True enough, first of all, im not a proper bastard, i think that the argument was merely down to the use of one word. I do not see how it is possible to be genuinely concerned when somebody you do not know dies, thats not to say anything bad about PP, its just my opinion.

Terry Pratchett is a good example by Alb, i really like the bloke, have all his books, watched his euthanasia lecture, admire him greatly, but will I care when he dies? Of course not! I dont know him! The only thing that will sadden me is that i will not get to read any more of his wonderful books, but thats not really caring is it? I mean.. its for selfish reasons!

If the only reason people care when a famous person dies is because they feel it will impact on their life negatively, thats not really caring is it?

Now what you said above however, is very true. And i can explain that one in far more simple terms.

To me, the circumstances ARE more important than the girl herself. I dont know the girl, or her Dad. I kinda feel sorry for the father, because i can imagine it happening to me and therefore have empathy for his situation. I feel very strongly about these miscarriages of justice because when we allow filth to get away with things then it increases the likelihood of this incident happening to me, or someone that i actually do know, and therefore do care about.

Ergo, i dont realy care about the girl. Sure its sad, but i cant care, because i dont know her or her dad. I can empathise, but its not really caring.

And i care about criminals, and dirty criminal immigrants that we should be deporting and terrorists etc because they kill innocent people, and one day, one of the innocent people might be someone i actually genuinelly DO care about.

Its hard to convey tone and genuine emotion via keyboard, and im sorry if that makes me sound like a douche, but i really didnt intend for this to turn into an epic, i was merely winding MGS up and then retorting to several people flinging things in my direction.

I dont think im a bad guy really.. but... the worlds a tough place right? You just gotta be tougher! ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2294920.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2294920.page GMT What makes you care when someone dies?
mattyrm wrote:
Its hard to convey tone and genuine emotion via keyboard, and im sorry if that makes me sound like a douche, but i really didnt intend for this to turn into an epic, i was merely winding MGS up and then retorting to several people flinging things in my direction.


Seems you failed doubly there.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2294961.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2294961.page GMT What makes you care when someone dies?
So what mattyrm is reading is that we are emotional about the subject when we aren't. What we see when he is typing is that he is saying that his passing isn't even worth the merest glance, which is an exceptionally bleak attitude.

Of course, assuming the only reason people notice someone passing away is how it will affect them is in error, but not the cause of the tension or confusion. I'm sure for some it is true, but it is certainly not the case in all.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2294979.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2294979.page GMT What makes you care when someone dies?
Matty, your position does make a lot more sense as expressed here. The truncated, beer-soaked way you tried to get it across before didn't quite work. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2295461.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/337425/2295461.page GMT