<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "dark eldar first draught. OPEN TO ALL CRITICISM!"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net dark eldar first draught. OPEN TO ALL CRITICISM!

Baron Sathonyx - 105 pts

x10 hellions-205 pts
-helliarch-10 pts
-phantasm gremade launcher-20pts

x10 hellions-205 pts
-helliarch-10 pts
-phantasm gremade launcher-20pts

x10 hellions-205 pts
-helliarch-10 pts
-phantasm gremade launcher-20pts

x10 hellions-205 pts
-helliarch-10 pts
-phantasm gremade launcher-20pts

5 reavers -120pts
heat lance
-10 pts


5 reavers -120pts
haet lance
-10 pts


5 reavers -120pts
heat lance -10 pts

voidraven bomber-205 pts
-necrotoxin missiles x2-20pts
-implosion x2 -20pts

The hellions are meant to harrass units, splinter tough units (such as carnifexes, avatars etc.) because of there STRENGHT X!
and they assault the weaker ones. if assaulting weaker ones they still shoot at them, of course. making good use of the hit and run (shoot, devestate in big charge, get out of there, then reavers can pick off the last survivors, if there are any) maybe I should use two units to pick on one unit at a time?

The reavers are used as tankbusting and other specifics:
first there turbo means by the end of turn one they could be in the enemy's deployment zone, bladevleaving on the way, then fire at any devestators or long range tankbusting the enemy may have.

there speed is just awesome on their own, their good harrasment with their bladecleaves, this can support the hellions

with the heat lance, it's as easy as pie to turbo into the behind of a tank and melta it's face off!


The hellion:

Used as the big tankbuster, the missiles i picked were to try to be versatile, whereever it goes it can (essentially) kill tough guys and kill many troops at once.

I may have made this list quite badly but this is my first list with dark eldar! btw ive been playing 40k wince i was seven (aka a very long time) so i am not a noob to the system but I have ony stuck with the 'imperials' so this is my first non-imperium list.

my mistake! i meant to put heat lances on there!

All criticism welcome! thank you!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2312059.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2312059.page GMT Re:dark eldar first draught. OPEN TO ALL CRITICISM! imo.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2312120.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2312120.page GMT dark eldar first draught. OPEN TO ALL CRITICISM! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2314005.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2314005.page GMT Re:dark eldar first draught. OPEN TO ALL CRITICISM! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2314034.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2314034.page GMT dark eldar first draught. OPEN TO ALL CRITICISM! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2314160.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2314160.page GMT dark eldar first draught. OPEN TO ALL CRITICISM! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2314220.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2314220.page GMT Re:dark eldar first draught. OPEN TO ALL CRITICISM!
The magic number for reavers is 6. 3 is too few, but 9 is too many, but you should have a multiple of 3. If you put one more bike in each squad, then you can have a second heat lance. Sometimes the lance misses, sometimes it doesn't penetrate even when you're in melta range, and sometimes you just roll bad on the damage chart. A second lance is really important in those squads. Also, be careful about turboboosting into the rear lines on turn 1. Flamers kill those bikes dead, and if you're in their backfield, they might be able to use one against you. Also, turboboosting doesn't help in CC. If you get charged, you don't have much in the way of CC fighting power. They aren't our most fragile units, but even if they're surviving in CC, they still aren't using bladevanes or heatlances.

You also added your points wrong. The squads as you have them are 122pts. The squads as they should be are 156pts.

In your hellion squads you don't need all those PGLs. First of all, the Baron has one, so that squad doesn't need one. Second of all, because only the Baron's squad get to be skilled riders, they are probably the only ones that should be charging into cover anyway. Your helliarchs should have agonizers or something. You don't have a single power weapon in your entire list...not even the baron gets one. Hellions get a pretty good shooting attack, but it isn't that good. Warriors can be shooty for less points, as can trueborn. None of the squads are all that good in CC.

I know you're going for a hellion theme, and that's fine, but you might consider a squad of wyches, wracks, or incubi to help you with you lack of CC punch. Wyches are pretty good in CC and also score, without breaking the bank in terms of points or money, so you might start there.



]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2315040.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2315040.page GMT dark eldar first draught. OPEN TO ALL CRITICISM!
You're also heavily lacking in anti-tank overall, though hellions will glance AV10 on a 6 in assault and chew up most infantry, both at range and in close.

rmeju wrote:Hellions get a pretty good shooting attack, but it isn't that good. Warriors can be much shootier for less points, as can trueborn.

That's... not really true. Warriors in a raider can move 6" and shoot 12" twice (and come out to the same cost as ten hellions, if you don't trick out the raider), and truborn (especially in a raider) will cost more than hellions, for only a slight improvement over basic warriors (move 6" and shoot 18" thrice, for about the same points as a reaver when you factor in the raider's cost). Hellions can move 12" and shoot 18" twice. And of the three, hellions are the only one that's worth anything in assault, though wyches have them beat there.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2315157.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2315157.page GMT dark eldar first draught. OPEN TO ALL CRITICISM!
On to the list....Reavers need to be in 6's, Drop one unit and add 1 bike to each of the other two units, that lets you get a second heat lance for each squad.

I'd suggest Ravagers for heavy support, but if you want the voidraven its up to you

Another possibility is a beastmaster squad, 4 masters, 5 kymeara and 6 razorwing's. They take a hell of a lot of punishment to bring down.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2315201.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2315201.page GMT Re:dark eldar first draught. OPEN TO ALL CRITICISM! PGL so which ever unit he flies with you will not need that 2nd PGL. So I would drop a PGL and put the Baron in with them.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2315458.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2315458.page GMT dark eldar first draught. OPEN TO ALL CRITICISM! It's pretty low on AT too.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2315955.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2315955.page GMT dark eldar first draught. OPEN TO ALL CRITICISM!
I'm with those who say to drop the bomber. IMO, Ravagers are better.
I'd make 2x6 Reaver units, drop the bomber and get a Ravager or 2.
Also... Where are your power weapons? Your Helliarchs should have power weapons at a minimum - preferably Agonizers. Would be nice to get an Arena Champ wth Agonizer upgrade in each of your Reavers, too.
Wounding on 4+ isn't all that great vs. MEQ, if they get their regular saves.

Eric]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2316371.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2316371.page GMT dark eldar first draught. OPEN TO ALL CRITICISM!
Sir Pseudonymous wrote:
rmeju wrote:Hellions get a pretty good shooting attack, but it isn't that good. Warriors can be much shootier for less points, as can trueborn.

That's... not really true. Warriors in a raider can move 6" and shoot 12" twice (and come out to the same cost as ten hellions, if you don't trick out the raider), and truborn (especially in a raider) will cost more than hellions, for only a slight improvement over basic warriors (move 6" and shoot 18" thrice, for about the same points as a reaver when you factor in the raider's cost). Hellions can move 12" and shoot 18" twice. And of the three, hellions are the only one that's worth anything in assault, though wyches have them beat there.


I did change my post, although you seem to have gotten to it a touch before I made the correction. However, I have to disagree that warrior squads need to be mounted in raiders. I've had excellent results with both 10 and 20 man squads (plus 1-2 cannons) deployed in strategic cover. Depending on how aggressively/conservatively they are placed, they chew things up if they get close at different points in the game (conservative placement will make its points later in the game). The cannons have a longer range, the rifles have a comparable range (especially given that hellions can't always afford to move 12" directly toward the enemy), and anything that gets within 18" is in more serious trouble with the warriors than they are with the hellions.

This is not to say that hellions don't have great anti-infantry shooting. They do. But warriors absolutely do not need a raider to be effective, and they can certainly put out more dakka per point than a hellion can. At rifle range or shorter, the warriors pay 6.67 points per shot (this assumes a 10 or 20 man squad with cannons to match) whereas the hellions pay 8 points per shot. Within ~18", the warriors are a hair over 4 points per shot. While of course this might mean that the warriors might need to step out of cover, frankly the hellions aren't in cover either, and aren't really much more durable, especially for the cost. It might not even matter, since the warriors are likely to chew up anything that might return fire.

This ignores the fact that hellions are more mobile and can deepstrike. As far as CC goes though, there's not really much of a reason that a warrior squad sybarithe can't be tooled up just like a helliarch, although I will concede that an army list probably shouldn't be built that way.

Anyway, my point is that for the dakka, footslogging splinter squads are worth considering! You just have to build them right and get a little practice with them.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2316514.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2316514.page GMT dark eldar first draught. OPEN TO ALL CRITICISM! PGL from a Hellion squad, unneeded since running the Baron in the squad.

2) Give every Helliarch an Agonizer. Hellions are amazing, but they NEED a power weapon to be able to stand toe-to-toe with even a Marine squad.

3) You need three Heavy Support choices. Your anti-tank is far too low. Ravagers really are the only competitive choice for most lists at 1500 points. At higher levels I think Razorwings are worthwhile, but at lower points levels 115 points for a Ravager w/Flickerfield is about as good as you can get.

4) Reaver squads are unneccesary, especially in that configuration. Minimum of 6 per squad, and 3 squads of them is not worthwhile.

I've had considerable experience with a similiar list. You're on a good starting track for a good Hellion list, you just need to tweak it to be able to TOAC. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2317290.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2317290.page GMT Re:dark eldar first draught. OPEN TO ALL CRITICISM!
x10 hellions-185 pts
-helliarch
agonizer

x10 hellions- 205 pts
-helliarch
-phantasm grenade launcher
-agonizer

x10 hellions-205 pts
-helliarch-
-phantasm grenade launcher-
-agonizer

x10 hellions-220 pts
-helliarch-
-phantasm grenade launcher
-agonizer

6 reavers -156pts
heat lance
heat lance


6 reavers -156pts
heat lance
heat lance



6 reavers -156pts
heat lance
heat lance

Ravager-125
night shields
flickerfield

ravager-125
night shields
flickerfield

can anyone suggest where to drop 18 pts ( 1500 pts list)

is this list any better now? please criticise.

p.s i am not dropping ravagers

pps i'm english so i spell draught D-R-A-U-G-H-T

THX!!!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2319255.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2319255.page GMT Re:dark eldar first draught. OPEN TO ALL CRITICISM!
Thaylen wrote:Any criticism you say... You might want to change the spelling in the subject line.



This

My thoughts exactly well played.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2319291.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2319291.page GMT Re:dark eldar first draught. OPEN TO ALL CRITICISM! AT firepower. The problem that I've run into with reavers and Heat lances involving transports is that they work great, but the reavers suck in cc and you're pretty likely to get shot, then "potentially" assaulted, depending on what's inside and if you can't get out of range even with the free 6" move. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2319417.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2319417.page GMT dark eldar first draught. OPEN TO ALL CRITICISM! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2320073.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2320073.page GMT Re:dark eldar first draught. OPEN TO ALL CRITICISM! my new list, (joking, thanks to Thephish for this proposed list) I, personally like it, what do you think?

Baron Sathonyx

x10 hellions-185 pts
-helliarch
agonizer

x8 hellions- 173 pts
-helliarch
-phantasm grenade launcher
-agonizer

x8 hellions- 173 pts
-helliarch-
-phantasm grenade launcher-
-agonizer

x8 hellions-173 pts
-helliarch-
-phantasm grenade launcher
-agonizer

6 reavers -156pts
heat lance
heat lance

6 reavers -156pts
heat lance
heat lance

Ravager-125
night shields
flickerfield

Ravager-125
night shields
flickerfield

Ravager-125
night shields
flickerfield]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2322452.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2322452.page GMT dark eldar first draught. OPEN TO ALL CRITICISM!
...you need an HQ choice. : )

Eric]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2324369.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2324369.page GMT Re:dark eldar first draught. OPEN TO ALL CRITICISM! CC, those return powerfist/TH hits are going to hurt you in a big hurry. Just something to think about. I could see potentially dropping a reaver or hellion squad for the points needed to put some girls in a raider or venom.

Other than that, I like the list!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2324695.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2324695.page GMT dark eldar first draught. OPEN TO ALL CRITICISM!
MagickalMemories wrote:I think....

...you need an HQ choice. : )

Eric


He had the Baron in there. Looks like it got deleted or something by accident.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2325340.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2325340.page GMT dark eldar first draught. OPEN TO ALL CRITICISM!
---Looks like he's edited him in since my last post.


Not my style list, but looks interesting.

Eric]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2334759.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/338785/2334759.page GMT