http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net DA, but I don't know what I would drop. What do you guys think?

HQ:
Farsear
-Doom
-Guide
-Spirit Stones
-Runes of Warding
-Runes of Witnessing
-Singing Spear

Troops:
10x Dire Avengers
-Exarch
-Blade storm
-Wave Serpent
-TL Scatter Lasers
-Spirit Stones
-Star Engines

10x Dire Avengers
-Exarch
-Blade storm
-Wave Serpent
-TL Scatter Lasers
-Spirit Stones
-Star Engines

Elite:
5x Fire Dragons
-Wave Serpent
-TL Scatter Lasers
-Spirit Stones
-Star Engines

5x Fire Dragons
-Wave Serpent
-TL Scatter Lasers
-Spirit Stones
-Star Engines

Heavy Support:
Fire Prism

Fire Prism

Fire Prism ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/340697/2343175.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/340697/2343175.page GMT
In past army lists I've looked at star engines are usually not recommended but if they are working for you then go for it. Do you find your fire prisms are durable enough without halo fields?

Do you find the two fire dragon squads can successfully get in there and take out vehicles/heavy armor quickly enough without the long range support of brightlances and the like? I haven't found fire prisms to be great at taking out vehicles.

I guess I'm asking how do you play this army versus a smaller elite style army (newer SM armies etc)? Against horde armies do you just try and out move to one side and blast away?

I'd also like someone else to comment on this list. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/340697/2343764.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/340697/2343764.page GMT TL their shots to get the scatter re roll. Also, since you used your star engines, your deep enough in the other players deployment to shoot at a valuable target even if your transport does get popped. Also, DO NOT underestimate their effectiveness against Elite troops such as Termies and the like. Many times I have used them against tough as nails units with GREAT success. Dont expect them to live much longer than 1 round of shooting though...they just don't.

I also use the star engines for keeping my Dire Avengers away from things that will eat them. You can also make your opponent move anywhere you want him to and then star engine to the opposite end of the board. This will give you another round or 2 of shooting while he chases you to the other side. For 15 points, its truly a must for the freedom to dictate where your opponent moves. It just adds to much more versatility.

Also, going back to the Prisms, turn 1 and 2 are CRUCIAL to their survival. You have to be sure to get your Fire Dragons into place for your big turn 2 heavy firing. Once you get those prisms out in the open, you HAVE to bring down the units that can really put a hurting on the prisms. I have only had one game where my prisms were taken out of the fight in the first couple turns and it does really hurt the rest of your force. But TBH, Holo Fields just aren't worth the points if your tactics are sound.

The Scatter Lasers have truly never failed me. They go after the light transports making my target priority for the Fire Dragons that much easier. For the points, the bright lances don't seem worth it. Also, scatter lasers can really piss off anything especially with a STR of 6 which means your pretty much rolling 2 to wound on most targets...their just great for versatility.

Against Horde armies, I just play the annoying Keep away game. Star engines help A TON when it comes to this. Don't be afraid to back your self into the corner and then fly 36 inches over the other army...its kind of funny actually.

Also, my dire avengers only get out of their transport if i KNOW for a fact that Dooming + guiding + Blade storming will bring down that unit. If they don't fall down, hope to hell that you got your max 18 inches away from them or you just lost a really valuable squad. I typically run both Serpents together just to max out my Blade Storm shots onto a big unit.

Sorry i was all over the place this thread, I just remembered different things at different times and didn't feel like going back through and putting them where they belong. I hope i answered your questions. Thanks for the comment Super Cow =)

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/340697/2351992.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/340697/2351992.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/340697/2352038.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/340697/2352038.page GMT
I like to outflank 3 of them with Cannons to keep them cheap at 120pts its a real bargain. I crash them into heavy weapon teams that are too close to the table edge, with Str4 they can only glance on 6s and you tie up the whole unit

Alternatively they can help with anti tank outflank them for rear or side armor shots and Ive always had them rip apart the tank they were shooting at smoke or not. And much like the dragons they are expendable and when that much Str6 pops up in the opponents deployment zone they sped a lot of fire power taking it out letting the rest of my army move into position.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/340697/2352075.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/340697/2352075.page GMT STR 7 AP 2 Blast. Its helped me out so much. I do see the appeal to 3 walkers though. Ill have to really give it a try.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/340697/2352247.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/340697/2352247.page GMT
I don't recommend taking War Walkers in this kind of list, their lack of mobility and reliance on Guide (which ties the Farseer and thus the rest of the list to them) hamstrings the rest of your list. Despite there reduced damage output you would be better off with Vypers.

Personally I would drop a Prism, strip off all the Star Engines and a few other upgrades and take a Falcon with a DAVU unit.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/340697/2352285.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/340697/2352285.page GMT apoc then it gets higher, but i have yet to find out how to get 4 prisms in a regular FoC.

but i do agree with the war walkers...they do not fit into a list like this. at best they would be useful for that one surprise hit when outflanking.

the star engines are nice...i use them myself but only prefer them on the dire avenger serpents for last minute objective grabbing. with that being said i do understand your reasoning for some of the upgrades on the serpents but id drop the upgrades to kit out the prisms with holo fields and stones]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/340697/2352357.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/340697/2352357.page GMT