<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Serious Dark Eldar Changes"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/16.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Serious Dark Eldar Changes
Shattershard
Errata Shattershard so it can no longer snipe IC. As is if you fail your T test you are dead, no save and no reallocating wounds

Wracks
Change Wracks so that if their Sarg takes a special weapon he replaces both his poisoned weapons with the special weapon and a CCW. As is now, if the sarg takes any weapons he loses the +1 attack for having 2 close combat weapons, making it useless to do so.

Warriors
1. Warriors may replace their splinter rifles with splinter pistol and CCW for free. The whole squad has to be armed the same way, except for special weapon troopers and the sarg.
2. 1 in 5 warriors may replace his splinter rifle with a special weapon, instead of just 1. A 10 man squad can have 2 blasters, a 20 man squad can have 4 blasters. Compare that to a unit of Trueborn, a unit of 4 can have 4 blasters. This would give you a reason to field a full raider worth, or perhaps even a 15 man foot slogger squad.

Trueborn
The entire unit may have ghostplate armor for +5 points per model

Sargents
1. Blast Pistol reduced from 15 points to 10 points, still 15 points on IC. 6" range! Main reason for the reduction in cost is that Sarg just have BS 4. They might get to use it at 6" once in a game and are 1/3 likely to miss. Not great for 15 points. An archon is more likely to shoot more than once, and has BS 7, so naturally it costs more.
2. Ghost amror upgrade is +5 points for sargents. They only have 1 wound so are likely to take less saves than an Achon, who has 3.

Archons can be mounted on a skyboard for 20 points
Succubi can be mounted on a Reaver jetbike for 35 points

Combat drugs need to be tweaked for Hellions and Reavers. Right now if you roll a 1 nothing happens as Bikes and Jump Packs cannot run. I was thinking of giving hellions and Reavers "Scouts" if you get a 1 on your combat drugs. They are just so hyped to go they start the game a little early.


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/342549/2375710.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/342549/2375710.page GMT Serious Dark Eldar Changes DL should be assuant, AP1 and come on wracks for +1 point per model. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/342549/2393536.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/342549/2393536.page GMT Serious Dark Eldar Changes http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/342549/2395862.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/342549/2395862.page GMT Serious Dark Eldar Changes
Valkyrie wrote:The only thing I agree with you is the mounting of Archons and Succubi on Skyboards and Reavers.


+1

On the topic of Wracks, it's kinda supposed to be that way...

Shattershard is supposed to also be used to snipe characters.

The Blast Pistol is priced as GW wants it, and I'd say it's fine like that. I choose to compare it to the Infernus Pistol, and actually I think the Blast Pistol is stronger. Making it cost less for being "stronger" and the sergeant having the same BS as a Space Marine isn't fair at all. Your experience may vary with it I guess.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/342549/2396046.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/342549/2396046.page GMT Serious Dark Eldar Changes IG Sergeants with Plasma Pistols, who, despite being the same price as Blast Pistols miss 1/2 of the time, have a chance of blowing themselves up and are considerably weaker than Blast Pistols, yet you're saying Blast Pistols are overpriced? Be fair, your sergeants get a S8 Ap2 Lance Pistol for feth's sake, most armies have nothing like that sort of variety. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/342549/2396335.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/342549/2396335.page GMT Re:Serious Dark Eldar Changes http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/342549/2396378.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/342549/2396378.page GMT Re:Serious Dark Eldar Changes
While I don't use wracks, their profile seems fitting.

As for the skyboard/reaver situation, I was expecting these options in the book, however I am not the least bit vexed to find they are not.

The Archon is still one of the most brutal HQ choices if used correctly. The baron is almost like an archon riding a skyboard and reavers have a new role within the army. The increase of weapon skill wouldn't make much difference as reavers are not built for close combat and the melee damage they should be dishing out is by the fly over ability provided by blade vaynes etc. The huskblade is killy enough without the ability to scream up onto the enemy position on a bike.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/342549/2396626.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/342549/2396626.page GMT Serious Dark Eldar Changes
Valkyrie wrote:Exactly what grayspark said: Other armies have to pay the same amount of points for worse weapons eg: IG Sergeants with Plasma Pistols, who, despite being the same price as Blast Pistols miss 1/2 of the time, have a chance of blowing themselves up and are considerably weaker than Blast Pistols, yet you're saying Blast Pistols are overpriced? Be fair, your sergeants get a S8 Ap2 Lance Pistol for feth's sake, most armies have nothing like that sort of variety.


That 6" range limits it a lot more than you might think. He will get that off on anything he is in assualt range for but little else.

Just read up on the Infernus Pistol. I think they are overpriced at 15 too. I would suggest 10points for sargs there too.
Interestingly the DE codex also has Fusion pistols that only Harliquins can use. They seem to be identical to Infernus Pistols except they are a 10pt upgrade instead of 15.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
InventionThirteen wrote:reavers have a new role within the army. The increase of weapon skill wouldn't make much difference as reavers are not built for close combat and the melee damage they should be dishing out is by the fly over ability provided by blade vaynes etc. The huskblade is killy enough without the ability to scream up onto the enemy position on a bike.


I have no problem with reavers getting CC upgrades. I just think if you roll a 1 on the combat drugs table you get something, ANYTHING. +1 Int would be better than nothing. Its not that it does something awesome its just the principle of wow this does nothing at all for me.

If the Huskblade or WWP becomes too powerful when on a bike or skyboard, just restrict them so you cant take both. I dont want to add IC bikes to overpower anything I just think its a choice I might like to have, especilly for friendly games. Personally I dont think I would ever put an archon on a board or a succubus on a bike in competitive play, but about half the games I play are not competitive.
My suggestion about warriors being able to swap for pistol+CCW is similar. Wyches are going to be better in assualt any way you put it, but I dont see why warriors shouldnt be able to have CC weapons for friendly games and mood.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
grayspark wrote:On the topic of Wracks, it's kinda supposed to be that way...

so an Acothyst is initially bought with 3 attacks that always wound on 4+. He can be upgraded to carry a scissorhand for +15points which will give him 3 attacks that always wound on 3+. Somehow that doesnt seem like its worth +15 points. Somehow I dont think its supposed to be that way.

For referance a sybarite, with CCW and pistol, comes with 3 attacks at S3 which will usually wound on 4+ or 5+, sometimes not at all. Giving him a venom blade upgrades him to 3 attacks that always wound on 2+ and that is valued at +5 points.

Normally a sarg's weapon upgrades completely replace his old weapons and he gets a pistol and CCW. I dont think its right to give him a pistol, just replace his two posioned blades with two CCW for free if he wants to take wargear so he can take advantage of it. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/342549/2397660.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/342549/2397660.page GMT Re:Serious Dark Eldar Changes
2-If I was adding anything it would be to give Trueborn a unit-wide 4+ CCW option, just so all their good options weren't shooting.

3-Personally, my main change would be to make the entire Court 0-X for each and include Incubi and Trueborn in their with the Mistress of Poisons having an option to upgrade the trueborn, like "if the unit contains a Lhamaean you may upgrade any trueborn in the same unit to have their poisoned weapons to be 3+ at a cost 0f +X per model." If the trueborn all could have poison rifles or CCW already, instead of just 4+ rifles, this would make the thing worth taking while not making the SSlyth too good because of the bonus. You could adjust the Court to be nasty Combat, nasty shooting, or somewhere between, although it might lead to a few too many wound allocations.

Imagine 9 Trueborn with a Lhamaean. Either shooting (ala the Duke) or CCW and they are a more enticing option in competitive play, allowing to their not taking up a FOC spot. Or PGL Archon with a mix of Incubi and Sslyth. Decent shooting with an ability to cut through troops. Probably have to have a points adjustment, but I wish Archon's had the prestige to surround theirselves with the best help possible.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/342549/2397787.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/342549/2397787.page GMT Re:Serious Dark Eldar Changes
Trueborn should have access to ghost plate although this almost replaces the use of scourges.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/342549/2397800.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/342549/2397800.page GMT Re:Serious Dark Eldar Changes
a1elbow wrote:1-Considering how reavers work, I could care less about their combat abilities. If they are getting shot at with anything good then hopefully my opponent is using too much, and if they are in combat I made a mistake because they just shouldn't be. Reavers just aren't that good and the things they are decent for aren't combat. Imagine if they were, they would cost almost as much as a Terminator.

Terminators are 40 points a model, reavers are 22. Thats a lot closer to half as much as it is to equal.
Frankly I think reavers are not any good as a purely shooty platform. They have far too much CC in them with their pistol and CCW, combat drugs and godlike Int. They always have the option of assault those targets of opportunity, on the battlefield.
I dont know about the fluff of the DE jetbikes, but if people want a pure shooty bike there should be warriors on bikes, not wyches. No drugs, better save, no pistol and CCW and cheaper. That is an option I would have liked to have seen in the old dex but perhaps not in this one. scourges being FA now means that kind of pure shooty is already filled.

a1elbow wrote:
2-If I was adding anything it would be to give Trueborn a unit-wide 4+ CCW option, just so all their good options weren't shooting.

trueborn are really nice, great weapon choice, cool back ground, and potentially really cool models. I think ghost plate would be a nice addition, but some sort of CC option would be nice too. I just dont want them to be "warriors with more heavy weapons"

a1elbow wrote:
3-Personally, my main change would be to make the entire Court 0-X for each and include Incubi and Trueborn in their with the Mistress of Poisons having an option to upgrade the trueborn, like "if the unit contains a Lhamaean you may upgrade any trueborn in the same unit to have their poisoned weapons to be 3+ at a cost 0f +X per model." If the trueborn all could have poison rifles or CCW already, instead of just 4+ rifles, this would make the thing worth taking while not making the SSlyth too good because of the bonus. You could adjust the Court to be nasty Combat, nasty shooting, or somewhere between, although it might lead to a few too many wound allocations.


The court is not something I have play tested a lot because I usually play smaller games and there are no models. A change from 1-X to 0-X would be really important.
The Lhamaean is also a bit of a wound taker. I mean even if she dies the archon still gets the bonus. It would be cooler if it was an upgrade that also affected the other models in the unit.
The fluff on Incubi leads me to think they like to fight alone with their silent battle disipline and taking no part in other DE affairs.
The fluff on the Court precludes taking trueborn. The archon wants a retinue he can trust wont stab him in the back. Trueborn are exactly what he wants to avoid as they are next in line to succeed him.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/342549/2398995.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/342549/2398995.page GMT Serious Dark Eldar Changes HQ is a sad ommision and incubi dont have grenades, apart from that i dont really care about improvements. 99/100: It's a good codex quit whining or go play Necrons....]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/342549/2399079.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/342549/2399079.page GMT Serious Dark Eldar Changes
Blast pistol... eh... It's probably fair as is. If you were going to ask for anything, wouldn't 12" range be much more valuable?

Agree on the Warriors and special weapons ratio, except that the 2nd special weapon per 10 should REPLACE their option for a Dark Lance or Splinter Cannon. No 2 DL, 4 Blaster super troopers.

Ghostplate upgrades... fine, whatever.

The whole leader on a jetbike/skyboard thing isn't my speed, but I can see why some would want it. Fine.

No on the "Scout" move for Reavers. Really, you want a free 36" turboboost to start the game? Way too much. Hellions can still use the "run" move (they are jump infantry, can still run), BTW, so not useless at all, giving them a nearly guaranteed 23-24" move/assault range. I'd say just live with it or at most allow a re-roll.

Here some other tweaks that I would like as a DE player:

-Option for Haywire grenades on Kabalite Warriors
-Option for Plasma grenades on Incubi, Mandrakes, Reavers
-Option for Phantasm Grenade Launcher on beastmaster, succubus, klaivex, nightfiend, arena champion, etc.
-Option for Succubus to carry a webway portal
-Option for Heat Lances in more units, such as Trueborn or even Kabalite Warriors
-Cheaper wych weapons (5 pts) or just a return to the old "wych weapons" rule for the entire squad
-Disintegrators to be worth taking (S6, AP2, Heavy 3 or 4) so they are closer to what they used to be
-Rework the awful Mandrakes. They could be really cool, but they still suck. First, give them a starting pain token to give them FNP and a shooting attack to start. Give them grenades so being in cover doesn't hinder assault. Let their leader take wargear including a webway portal, as this would be a great way to make them useful in screwing with enemy deployment.


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/342549/2399357.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/342549/2399357.page GMT Serious Dark Eldar Changes
Skarboy wrote:The Acothyst thing is valid; it should at least be an option. Bear in mind, buying him anything doesn't REPLACE one of his poison weapons; you always have that option. Good to know if you ever buy him a Hexrifle.

yeah, it does kind of work for Hexrifles, if you really want your wracks to slog across the field instead of running...
Skarboy wrote:
Blast pistol... eh... It's probably fair as is. If you were going to ask for anything, wouldn't 12" range be much more valuable?

at 15pts I would go for 9" range, 12 would be too much.
Skarboy wrote:
Agree on the Warriors and special weapons ratio, except that the 2nd special weapon per 10 should REPLACE their option for a Dark Lance or Splinter Cannon. No 2 DL, 4 Blaster super troopers.

I would be fine going with "For every 10 warriors 2 can take blasters/shredders or 1 can take a DL or SC" but better would be something like "For every 5 warriors, 1 can take a blaster/shredder. 2 warriors that could take blasters or shredders can instead take a DL or SC"
Skarboy wrote:
Ghostplate upgrades... fine, whatever.
The whole leader on a jetbike/skyboard thing isn't my speed, but I can see why some would want it. Fine.

Both of these I think are for friendly games. I dont think either would be that competitive
Skarboy wrote:
No on the "Scout" move for Reavers. Really, you want a free 36" turboboost to start the game? Way too much. Hellions can still use the "run" move (they are jump infantry, can still run), BTW, so not useless at all, giving them a nearly guaranteed 23-24" move/assault range. I'd say just live with it or at most allow a re-roll.

I was not aware Hellions could run, I dont use them. I agree turbo boosting in a scout phase would be way too good. Perhaps restrict it to a normal move or do something else.
Skarboy wrote:
Here some other tweaks that I would like as a DE player:
-Option for Haywire grenades on Kabalite Warriors
-Option for Plasma grenades on Incubi, Mandrakes, Reavers
-Option for Phantasm Grenade Launcher on beastmaster, succubus, klaivex, nightfiend, arena champion, etc.
-Option for Succubus to carry a webway portal
-Option for Heat Lances in more units, such as Trueborn or even Kabalite Warriors
-Cheaper wych weapons (5 pts) or just a return to the old "wych weapons" rule for the entire squad

a lot of that would be nice... I suppose that Incubi cant use grenades because they have 2 handed weapons. I think beasts taking advantage of grenades is a little too much as well but the rest i can see.
Wych weapons are too expensive definitly, but people still take them for some reason so maybe they arent that bad. I rarely if ever take any.
Skarboy wrote:
-Disintegrators to be worth taking (S6, AP2, Heavy 3 or 4) so they are closer to what they used to be

The Disintegrator is fine. It use to be awesome, now it is kind of mediocer but it is nice to swap out the DL if you know your opponent has no vehicles. Why cant troops carry them? They would be awesome on scourges, trueborn and warriors.
Skarboy wrote:
-Rework the awful Mandrakes. They could be really cool, but they still suck. First, give them a starting pain token to give them FNP and a shooting attack to start. Give them grenades so being in cover doesn't hinder assault. Let their leader take wargear including a webway portal, as this would be a great way to make them useful in screwing with enemy deployment.

Mandrakes do just plain suck. I saw something about rending and a point adjustment, but that leaves them a lot like Harlies. They need a complete rework IMHO.

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