<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan?"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/93.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan?
The last two games I fought against Chaos in one and Wood Elves in the other. I barely won both games and it was because I had lots of great rank and file troops would took out almost all the basic troops of both armies I fought against. However, the Daemon Prince on the Juggernaught, the treeman, the other tree dudes, the chaos heavy knights and champion/heroes.

So, now I am faced with a conundrum. Do, I scratch the Slaan and build an Old one riding a Carnosaur? I can pimp out an Old blood, with like the blade of realities and frenzy with a ward save, which means extra attacks and every attack that hits you must take a leadership test or die, which is outright nasty. Or, I can keep going the Slaan route and dominate the Magic. Things like denying wizards 6's on casting die, and 2+ save against miscast and then giving the miscast to an enemy mage is pretty epic. However, it seems that the big bad stuff in the other players army is almost impossible to kill.

I used life magic and gave my Saurus unit +4 T one round against a Treeman, and while that 8 Toughness really helped prolong that unit's life I could not for the life of me kill or even wound the Treeman. That Unit eventually got wiped by the treeman and the wardancers that flanked them. I guess I could go the hero route since Slaan take up so many Lord points, but I cannot mount a Hero on a Carnosaur, and their items and stats are a bit more limiting.

So, what do you guys think?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2408589.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2408589.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2408698.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2408698.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2409318.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2409318.page GMT Re:Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan?
In my last game I made a small mistake and the wood elf player roll box cars on his charge roll and charged my stegadon and owned him. Then thunderstomped the skink shaman.

I would love to find a way to squeeze in a Slaan and have another lord and maybe a few heroes.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2409365.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2409365.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan?
Why the insistence on taking a hero on a Carnosaur? An Oldblood is pretty nasty even without any magic items (and for their points Scar Vets are great without magic items as well) and putting him on a Carnosaur actually makes him more fragile. All he really needs is a bit of defensive gear (probably a ward of some kind) and he can run around chopping things to bits. Assuming you are playing 2400-2500pts you should easily be able to fit in a Slann (figure around 400pts, thats pretty tooled up, BSB, 2 Disciplines) and an Oldblood (200pts or so) in to the 600 or so points you have to work with.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2409476.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2409476.page GMT Re:Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2409757.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2409757.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan? GW scar vets in your blocks, one for each block with GW, LA (or a mgic one) and maybe a ward. Remember you get 25% Lords and 25% Heroes, the 2 or 3 scar vets needed for your saurus blocks will gost around 100 pts a pop but the S7 is a nice way to slay big baddies and you can dodge nasty challenges via the unit champ, and the TG don't need this kind of bolstering having regen 5+/4+ and/or T6/8 should make them hard enough to kill and S5 can kill the bigger baddies over time.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2409799.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2409799.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan?
Unfortunately there is no comparison between an old blood killing potential and the utterly destructive force of a Slaan.. Even if the old blood was in combat at the start of turn 1 he wouldnt do more damage than the slaan can do in a single phase

Throne of vines allows you to make sure your slann virtually never dies to miscasts and buffs your spells. WFB is VP based, so that basically means you'll never give up 500+ VPs unless the entire unit dies

Giving your guys +2T or +4 means in general they'll be only wounded on 6s, making S4 models wound about 2.5x less than usual. For every 24 hits you'll suffer 12 wounds normally, but with a life slann that unit suffers *4*.. Thats 3x less damage. In turn those 9 extra saurus warriors will deal about 5 wounds in return to T4 models.

Regeneration provides much the same bonuses of the above spell, making your guys even more insane. Couple that with the standard setup for temple guard you're looking at standard combat res of +5.. And since they wont do any wounds, you win easily

Shield of thorns with throne of vines up is pretty damn amazing also since it makes you almost IMMUNE to small units. They each take 2d6 S4 hits, and promptly die.

You can also raise models back to life.. This spell can win you the game because you can 7 models back (IE 7 temple guard or bring back a salamander unit that almost died)

FInally you got dwellers below which against a unit of 20 models will kill more models in a single turn than an old blood will prob kill all game

In short life slann is amazing

Take my 2500 pt tournament army and play it against your friends.. they'll probably agree that a life slann is unfair (and so is the army as a whole

Life slann - 465 pt version
Cube o darkness priest

21 temple guard
3x 10 camo skinks

30 saurus
30 saurus

3 salamanders + 11 handlers
3 salamanders + 11 hanlders

This same list can be scaled to 2000 or 3000 by adding normal skinks to 3000 + salamanders.. or reducing saurus units and some camo skinks for 2000 pts. ALl rares and lords fit neatly in 250 or 500pt blocks

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2410461.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2410461.page GMT Re:Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan?
But untill then – POWER TO THE STAMPEDE ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2410563.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2410563.page GMT Re:Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan?
Slaan
- 4 disciplines
-cupped hands of the old ones
life magic

Old blood
-blade of realities

25 x sauruses with spears

25 x saurus with spears

20 saurus with spears

25 temple guard with veteran

20 skinks with 2x Krox

20 skinks with 2x krox

stegadon with engine of the gods as a mount for my skink priest
-skink priest had cube of darkness

1 x salamander with extra skink crew


I was able to fit an old blood in, but barely. I liked the idea of 5 attacks and every hit = leadership test or die. The old blood took out a lot, but then suffered instant death by the hands of the war dancer in a challenge. Once he died, the whole right flank of my army was weak, and they were in combat with a treeman for 3 turns, as I kept giving them +4 toughness but they could not wound the treeman with their Strength of 4.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2410684.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2410684.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan?
Kirasu wrote:

3 salamanders + 11 handlers




This confuses me. Are you saying you have 3 Salamanders and a TOTAL of 11 handlers, or that you have a total of 20 handlers for three Salamanders?

Because I always read it that you could only have 4 handlers per Salamander max.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2410842.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2410842.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2410850.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2410850.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan? Heavens magic isn't horrible, and skinks can get the job done.
You can still win without the uber-slann, and you're opponent will be happy that you aren't "That Guy".
Lizardmen units all tend to be pretty good, and the points saved on slann give you a lot of options.

-Matt
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2411049.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2411049.page GMT Re:Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan?
I have roughly the following (haven't done inventory yet)

100+ skinks
10 krox
100+ saurus
30+ Temple Guard
16 cold ones
2 slaan (4th edition ones)
3 x carnosaurs w/ riders
several blister packs of champions (both skink and saurus)
3x stegadons
3 x horned ones
3 x salamanders

I have more than I need but the guy selling his old stuff just lumped it all into one lot of miniatures and the price was about half of what it would cost retail to buy it. A lot of it is still on sprue. So, now I am completely done buying lizards, and I just need to paint all this stuff. Next I am thinking about building an Ogre army.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2411127.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2411127.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan?
Your answer to high toughness models are stegadons, temple guard, or Kroxigors. Having a slaan and two stegadons is pretty standard in a lot of Lizardmen lists.

Lore of Life is going to be your best bet almost always because against high toughness (and usually high strength) units, you just use flesh to stone and make the unit T8. A T8 unit of skinks with kroxes or Saurus Warriors can kill any unit in the game eventually.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2412512.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2412512.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2412743.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2412743.page GMT Re:Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan?
I will be probably building an army like this

1 x Slaan or 1 x Old blood on carnosaur

several blocks of 20 Saurus units

2 salamanders

2 stegadons

I haven't worked out the points yet, but I think I am going to ditch the skinks and just do rank and file saurus units.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2416545.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2416545.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan? IMO, i just can't seem to fit the gear i want on 'em.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2416874.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2416874.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan?
HoverBoy wrote:Carno bloods are too expensive for 2k IMO, i just can't seem to fit the gear i want on 'em.


Yeah my problem with my lizards is, if I field a Slaan I got nothing to take out other lords and heroes on the other side since the Slaan eat up so many points. If I take an Old Blood on a carno with some gear (blade of realities) then I can cause some serious damage to his big stuff.

I definitely need to keep my stegadons in the back this game. Last game I charged them up and they got torn to shreds by treemen.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2416912.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2416912.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan? TG unit and go nuts ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2416995.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2416995.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan?
HoverBoy wrote:In 2500+ you can include an economy slaan and an oldblood on foot, stick them in the same TG unit and go nuts


Yes but don't Old Bloods in the same unit as a Slaan always have to challenge? I like having the option of not issuing challenges.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2417009.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2417009.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2417850.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2417850.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2418888.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2418888.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan?
HoverBoy wrote:I've never heard of such a rule.


Yeah I read that rule on a special character and thought it was all old bloods. It is just that ultimate bodyguard dude.

I think I may field the skink special character that takes beast lore and hope I can morph him into something awesome. I think I will stick with the Slaan and life magic next game as well. I just wish skinks could take other lores outside of heavens.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2426491.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2426491.page GMT Re:Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan? WE vs Lizards

My list was roughly (don't have it in front of me)
Slaan
-4 disciplines
-cupped hands of the old ones
-Life Magic

20 x saurus unit
-standard
-musician

25 x saurus unit
-standard
-musician
-champion

20 temple guard
-champion
-magic banner that causes all attacks to be flaming attacks

5 cold ones
-champion
-musician
-standard
-magic banner that gives strider ability

2 x stegadons
- 1 engine of the gods with a skink priest lvl 1
- 1 giant bow

I lost initiative so he went first. Lots of shooting, hail of doom arrow. Some saurus and cold ones die. I charge the scouts with cold ones and they have strider so they go right into the woods no problemo. everything else marches
- cold ones wipe scouts and are left on my far right flank of the table

turn 2
- more shooting on his part, magic was tame

my turn 2
marching, blocked treeman's path to stegadon with 20x saurus block. Passed leadership test to march right up next to him. My stegadon on the left flank gets slaughtered by the WE Lord General.

Turn 3 was pretty much game over. At this point I had my cold ones charging from the flank, my saurus charing the treekin, my temple guard charging the giant archer unit with the mage/heroes in it. By the time his treeman even got close to being back in the game I had wiped most units in hand to hand. His treekin ended up wiping out my cold ones and saurus unit but my other stegadon charged in for a flank attack and it was death for the treekin with impact hits and thunder stomp.

Turn 4

Treeman finally charges into Temple Guard for the last ditch effort to score victory points. Flaming attacks cause double wounds, and I ended up getting a ton of wounds on him and he failed his saves. I killed his general with a good roll on a magic spell, and my stegadon did some damage to all the forest spririts.
a
Overall, this game was a lot easier to win this time because I was very careful with my movement and maneuvered my units around to avoid being charged by the treeman and the treekin. In fact, I did almost all the charging that game. Made a HUGE difference.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2434662.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2434662.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan?
Crom wrote:His treekin ended up wiping out my cold ones and saurus unit but my other stegadon charged in for a flank attack and it was death for the treekin with impact hits and thunder stomp.

You can't stomp on monstrous infantry! Looks like you did a good job manuevering overall, but definitely no thunderstomp allowed in this case...

I've made the same mistake plenty of times, it's hard to keep track of what you can do it against. But pretty much anything else that can stomp, can't be stomped, as well as cavalry.


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2436174.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2436174.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan?
RiTides wrote:
Crom wrote:His treekin ended up wiping out my cold ones and saurus unit but my other stegadon charged in for a flank attack and it was death for the treekin with impact hits and thunder stomp.

You can't stomp on monstrous infantry! Looks like you did a good job manuevering overall, but definitely no thunderstomp allowed in this case...

I've made the same mistake plenty of times, it's hard to keep track of what you can do it against. But pretty much anything else that can stomp, can't be stomped, as well as cavalry.




That's right you can only stomp infantry, swarms, and cavalry right? Can a larger creature like a stegadon stomp 40mm base units? We always get that rule messed up.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2438202.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2438202.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan? Only infantry, warbeasts and swarms are stompable.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2438347.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2438347.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan?
HoverBoy wrote:No you can't stomp cavalry either.
Only infantry, warbeasts and swarms are stompable.


OK we should hopefully get this rule right someday. Our gaming group (just 3 of us at the moment) haven't played GW games since 4th edition fantasy and 2nd Edition 40K. So, we are learning a lot of new rules. Back when we played the magic system used cards....]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2439324.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2439324.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2440259.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2440259.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan?
"Slann or no Slann". This is in the Tactics section, so I'll answer tactically.

Slann. Slann always. I really doubt you need 4 disciplines, though. Rumination is a must. Focus of Mystery...maybe. With four spells and choosing any one you want on doubles, I wouldn't mind missing out on Earthblood, (Thorny Spell of Thorns), or even Dwellers. Because I assume you're going for Life. Personally, I think that Shadow would work similarly, but the Lore Attribute would be worthless. Anyway, I could maybe see a ghost-Slann. That's...really all you need, aside from the Cupped Hand. And even this is overkill, honestly.

Your main concern seems to be those big scary things. Monsters. Killy characters. A Scar-Vet with a great Weapon is really efficient, and with Life buffs (Regen or T7/9), he's a monster.
Here's something I've noticed in 8th: it's all about efficiency. No one's invincible anymore, with Step-up and always wounding on 6's. So people don't dump a mess of points into their two characters anymore. It's all about how many attacks at what strength you get for how many points.
There are some exceptions to this (Tzeentch Chaos Lord with a 3+ Ward) that can still play at Herohammer or Point Denial, but the Old Blood isn't one of them.

One Scar-Vet, with naught but a great weapon, in each block of Saurus should take care of your problems.

One more thing: strictly speaking, the Blade of Realties is not a good buy. Too expensive. Save or die. Most guys have Ld8-9. Within range of the BSB, the chances are minimal. Higher S or more attacks would be cheaper and better.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2447994.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2447994.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan?
Warpsolution wrote:And it is downright silly that little guys get stepped on by big guys, but that huge guys don't step on big guys (similar logic to: why is a man afraid of a skeleton, but a giant isn't afraid of a bone giant?). But I digress:

"Slann or no Slann". This is in the Tactics section, so I'll answer tactically.

Slann. Slann always. I really doubt you need 4 disciplines, though. Rumination is a must. Focus of Mystery...maybe. With four spells and choosing any one you want on doubles, I wouldn't mind missing out on Earthblood, (Thorny Spell of Thorns), or even Dwellers. Because I assume you're going for Life. Personally, I think that Shadow would work similarly, but the Lore Attribute would be worthless. Anyway, I could maybe see a ghost-Slann. That's...really all you need, aside from the Cupped Hand. And even this is overkill, honestly.

Your main concern seems to be those big scary things. Monsters. Killy characters. A Scar-Vet with a great Weapon is really efficient, and with Life buffs (Regen or T7/9), he's a monster.
Here's something I've noticed in 8th: it's all about efficiency. No one's invincible anymore, with Step-up and always wounding on 6's. So people don't dump a mess of points into their two characters anymore. It's all about how many attacks at what strength you get for how many points.
There are some exceptions to this (Tzeentch Chaos Lord with a 3+ Ward) that can still play at Herohammer or Point Denial, but the Old Blood isn't one of them.

One Scar-Vet, with naught but a great weapon, in each block of Saurus should take care of your problems.

One more thing: strictly speaking, the Blade of Realties is not a good buy. Too expensive. Save or die. Most guys have Ld8-9. Within range of the BSB, the chances are minimal. Higher S or more attacks would be cheaper and better.


Thanks for the input.

Blade of Realities can be nice. The last game I used it, my old blood I squeezed in was on foot in a saurus unit and had the blade of realities. Yes, the blade is 75 points, so it only leaves you with 25 more points of items to give, but I actually just gave him that. I instantly killed 2 treekin (they have two wounds) hitting the unit with all 5 attacks. When you have people rolling 5 leadership tests, they will probably fail one. Since each model had two wounds, instant death meant that I got +2 to my combat resolve score. The great thing is, you have to take the test before I even roll to wound. Though I can see where better combination of items may come into play.

As for battle standard, I thought they only count towards combat resolution. Unless you mean the Army Standard which allows you to reroll failed leadership tests. However, I don't think that applies in this case, because does the army standard only allow for psychology and break tests?

I still have to go through and read all of 8th edition

So, what other combinations have you used of magic items and disciplines you found useful with the Slaan and other Lord/Heroes? Also, what lores of magic are great to take besides life? That toughness 8/9 is pretty nice. Dwellers below is pretty good against elves and things with str 3. Denying your enemy wizards all 6s is great too. There were a few failed spells last game because of that. Cupped hands of the old ones is great because if they dispell your 2+ save and augment spell for Life, you got the item to fall back on, and I did miscast last game and handed off the miscast and gave the wizard a str 8 hit. If I had wanted to be a jerk I could have used my ability to reroll on the miscast table and get a worse result and then hand it off, since I had that ability and the FAQ states you roll the results first, then hand them off with the cupped hands of course you must roll a 2+.

So, really it is a good tactic to get an ultimate power cast, use the ability to reroll results on the miscast table, purposely get the nastiest one you can, then roll a 2+ to hand it off.....

Though I could not bring myself to do that to my buddy last game since it was friendly. Otherwise, I would have rerolled the results, but he only suffered one STR 8 hit from the miscast table which really isn't all that bad of a result considering others.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2450457.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2450457.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan?
Rumination
Focus (Light)
Becalming

These three disciplines give him amazing offensive spellcasting, as well as the ability to shut down my enemies uber mage.

I also Take:

Cupped Hands
Battle Standard
Standard of Discipline

Hands protects him from miscasts, and is a nice Mage-Hunter, while the standard means everyone within 12" is Ld10 with a re-roll.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2451566.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2451566.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan? If you aren't using temple guard, it might be a pretty good ploy. Ghost slann with shadow; jump around.

Oh, Tree Kin have 3 wounds, so with 5 hits, you're doing kicking a lot of butt. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a better weapon in the game. Ignoring armor, regen and rolls to wound is pretty hot; and when you don't get the Golden BB, you still are hitting with S5 no armor save attacks.


-Matt]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2451749.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2451749.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan?
To address your comments: there are "standards" and there is the "army battle standard", shortened to "battle standard". And 8th lets you re-roll all Leadership tests.
Treekin are Ld8. The odds of one failing it's test is a little less than 50%. With a BSB nearby, that drops to almost 20%. So, on average, you'll kill one treekin if you hit with all five attacks, not including rolling to wound. Compare that to, say, the Ogre Blade, which will kill about one treekin/phase (2/3 of 5 attacks, 2+ to wound), for 35pts less, I believe.
Most lists have "The Weapon" in there somewhere. Most of them are pretty crazy. But most of them are simply not worth their points, like this one.

I've heard good things about Light magic.
@Matt: I suppose you could. Unless the Slann counts as something else? I just figured he'd be in with some Guard, but it would be pretty funny to watch him bop around like that.

@Carnifex: doesn't the Standard of Discipline somehow negate the Inspiring Presence rule? Or does it simply say that the unit doesn't get it, so since the Slann is in the unit anyway, its all gravy?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2451802.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2451802.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan?
Warpsolution wrote:@Carnifex: doesn't the Standard of Discipline somehow negate the Inspiring Presence rule? Or does it simply say that the unit doesn't get it, so since the Slann is in the unit anyway, its all gravy?

Read BRB FAQ.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2451985.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2451985.page GMT Re:Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan?
However, I got instantly killed by a war dancer doing the instant kill dance. I had buffed the toughness of the unit so the old blood had T9. The War Dancer had to roll 6's to wound against T9, and he had an item that allowed him to reroll failed to wound rolls. So he ended up rolling a 6 on his death blow roll and instantly killed my old blood. Ouch, that hurt! However, that was my whole plan the whole time was to use the old blood + the blade of realities to take out a treeman or some other baddie on the other side.

That game had epic dice rolls though. I failed my Cupped Hands saving throw and had to roll on the miscast table and take it myself. I instant killed a few models with blade of realities, the war dancer got the death blow on my old blood, I failed my cupped hands roll, and we were laughing the whole time how bad our dice rolls were.

The bigger more baddie units usually have really good armor or a ward save. The blade of realities ignores all of that, including regeneration. You straight up die. The whole reason I take an old blood (or a hero saurus) with the blade of realities is to attempt to instantly kill the other player's tough units.

I think I am playing Chaos next, and I am almost willing to be my opponent goes death magic and tires to use that initiative test or die spell on my lizards, which would be really really really bad. So, I think I am going to build my Slaan to deny all 6s the other wizard rolls, and then go all out and get ultimate power on a spell, roll the worst result I can on the miscast table and then hand it off to the Chaos wizard and hope he dies and takes out a good chunk of the unit with it.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2453607.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2453607.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan?
Crom wrote:The last two games I fought against Chaos in one and Wood Elves in the other. I barely won both games and it was because I had lots of great rank and file troops would took out almost all the basic troops of both armies I fought against. However, the Daemon Prince on the Juggernaught, the treeman, the other tree dudes, the chaos heavy knights and champion/heroes.

I know this isn't the point of the thread but I found it quite funny. Especially when you compare the size of the Demon Prince and the Juggernaught models. Most likely it was a Exalted or a Chaos Lord on the Juggernaught and everyone understands that you can't always get the names right for every unit in every army. If it really was a Demon Prince on a Jugger than your opponent cheated big time. Not only is a DP not allowed a mount but the Jugger removes one of the DPs biggest weaknesses, his Armour.

If someone were to try that against me then I would respond with a BSB, Banner of Disipline, Ld10, Life Slaan mounted on an Ancient Stegadon. That should be enough to give most WoC players fits (myself included). ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2455018.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2455018.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan?
Stonewyrm wrote:
Crom wrote:The last two games I fought against Chaos in one and Wood Elves in the other. I barely won both games and it was because I had lots of great rank and file troops would took out almost all the basic troops of both armies I fought against. However, the Daemon Prince on the Juggernaught, the treeman, the other tree dudes, the chaos heavy knights and champion/heroes.

I know this isn't the point of the thread but I found it quite funny. Especially when you compare the size of the Demon Prince and the Juggernaught models. Most likely it was a Exalted or a Chaos Lord on the Juggernaught and everyone understands that you can't always get the names right for every unit in every army. If it really was a Demon Prince on a Jugger than your opponent cheated big time. Not only is a DP not allowed a mount but the Jugger removes one of the DPs biggest weaknesses, his Armour.

If someone were to try that against me then I would respond with a BSB, Banner of Disipline, Ld10, Life Slaan mounted on an Ancient Stegadon. That should be enough to give most WoC players fits (myself included).


I just started playing again after a 14 year break from war minis. I am quite sure I got the term wrong and I am quite sure my buddy didn't cheat. At least on purpose. It was a lord character on a mount, so probably a Chaos Lord.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2455040.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2455040.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2456176.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2456176.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2456275.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2456275.page GMT Re:Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan?
After enough time he will fail enough dice rolls for his units to die by my scaly lizard hands.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2457709.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2457709.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan?
With the lack of partial VP nowadays, you could always try to concentrate your points into one big ol' block of Temple Guard and maximum two blocks of Saurus. Your Earthblood and Flesh to Stone spells will have to go off less often (not generally a problem with the Slann, but nevertheless) to be useful, and, at the end of the game, a unit of 40 Saurus that has been reduced to 5 lizards is still worth as much as 40.

From what I've seen, the typical trend with Chaos is 15-18 Warriors. Marauders are always in big chunks, but that's because they'll die fast anyway. If you can claim just one or two units without giving anything substantial up (which should not be hard for the Slann), you should win.

Not exactly the most sporting. But the uberslann isn't either.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2458523.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2458523.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan?
Warpsolution wrote:Sounds tough. But that's Chaos for you.

With the lack of partial VP nowadays, you could always try to concentrate your points into one big ol' block of Temple Guard and maximum two blocks of Saurus. Your Earthblood and Flesh to Stone spells will have to go off less often (not generally a problem with the Slann, but nevertheless) to be useful, and, at the end of the game, a unit of 40 Saurus that has been reduced to 5 lizards is still worth as much as 40.

From what I've seen, the typical trend with Chaos is 15-18 Warriors. Marauders are always in big chunks, but that's because they'll die fast anyway. If you can claim just one or two units without giving anything substantial up (which should not be hard for the Slann), you should win.

Not exactly the most sporting. But the uberslann isn't either.


The one good thing about the skinks is poisoned weapons. I did march up about 20 skinks in a block and a unit of skirmishing skinks and tossed about 20 to 25 javelins at the his juggernaut dude. I rolled a good 4 or 5 6's on my dice rolls. Which automatically wounded. Problem was, his armor was so good he saved on all of them.....

Your tactic is actually one I have been considering. With the new horde rules. Make a giant horde unit, and march them up the middle. Create like a tar pit trap of a unit. Sure, he can rush on in, but it is going to take him several turns to win if his characters actually survive. I should always have the rank bonus and with life magic I can restore wounds, and raise the dead to that unit. All the while my other units move around and take stuff out.

It does seem like every game I play my opponent makes one of my 20 unit block of sauruses completely useless. They do this by maneuvering their troops, and I already got so much in my deployment zone that I am forced to put a unit or two on the flanks. If it is a weak side and my opponent moves towards the other, then that unit stranded on the side of the table takes the whole game to move anywhere and sometimes never even sees combat once.

So, maybe if I did do a super huge unit and get all the bonuses for being a horde I can trap all his big stuff fighting that unit all game. If it doesn't bring the fight to him and smash every little unit out of my way.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2458672.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2458672.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan? The most common LM builds would have a TG block with a slaan and two saurus blocks, thorw skinks and beasties in to support.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2459402.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2459402.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan?
Goblins and Skaven can, technically, field tons and tones of rank-and-file, but there's a certain point where you get diminishing returns and your guys just get in each other's way. Forcing yourself to march forward and charge head-on is pretty lame. Your opponent can't really get at your flanks (at first), but those big blocks of terrible fighters need their flank-charges.

I actually played a game where we exchanged lists before hand, and I handed him a 2000pt list with nothing but Slaves and a naked Warlock Engineer; 6 units of ~80 and 4 or 5 of ~40. After I took in the look on his face, I handed him my real list.

...I wish I had 600+ painted Skaven...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2460874.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2460874.page GMT Re:Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan? WoC have the tools to deal with LM.

When two equal opponents face off often mismatches decide the battle. Dealing with WoC characters require the same tools as dealing with Chaos Warriors and Chaos Knights.
Anything that ignores and/or reduces Armour Saves is important although WoC can get some really good Ward Saves through Mark of Tzeentsch.

Okay, my suggestions:
Salamanders are good against Armoured targets (-3 AS), they are good flankers with a decent operational radius (+/- 20"). Unfourtunatly they only do 1 hit per model.
Saurus Characters can get S7 relatively easy. Even 1+ re-rollable AS is not that hot against S7. Just remember they will hit last against WoC, make sure they live to get their attacks.
Stegadons have high strength Impact hits. I don't even have to mention what Engines can do against Armoured Foes.

WoC characters always have to challange when possible, use this to your advantage. Makes sure you have plenty of champions to take the heat off your weaker chars when nessesary.
Protect important chars whenever possible, priests on engines can now get 4+ ward saves (common magic item) making up for one of their traditional weaknesses.

Oldbloods can be CC monsters, giving Chaos Lords a run for their money. Slanns can use magic to buffs/hexes creating mismatches, cast big spells that don't allow armour saves and/or take out 50% of a unit at once.
Slanns also cost twice as much leaving less points for engines, sallies, saurus blocks ect.

I wouldn't concentrate too much on WoC chars, they are too fast, too strong and too well defended to hunt. If they are in a unit then use your better movement (6" vs 4") to flank them with a mismatch if possible and then run them down. If they are on their own then use inderect attacks. Hit them with colateral damage when possible, catching them in the radius of Burning Alignment or dropping rocks. Use high strength spells or those that don't allow armour saves. If you can't kill them then don't bother. Use your speed to avoid them a good as possible and concentrate on the rest of the army. Even a lowly Lv2 Sorc can be a Tank, T4 2+ AS 3++ Ward or T4 1+ AS 4++ Ward. Even the weakest of WoC chars will eat skink heros for lunch.

I think the key is to get the right mismatches on his troops. His CC chars are a big pain in the *** but they can't win by themselves. They can't break steadfast and can't dispell your Slann. They need blocks of troops to support in order to really rack in points.
On the other side your opponent will try to get mismatches too. Watch out for Disk and Boobworm mounted Exalteds trying to hunt Sallies. Chars on Juggers don't need a sheild to get to 1+ AS. They will often have a halberd or a great weapon with a crapload of attacks.
They are never able to get LoSir though. If a Jugger is on the table then he can always be targeted by shooting, war machines (howdah weapons) and spells. Don't bother shooting at them though, only Bolt throwers and spells have a chance of getting a wound.

LM have an answer to most of what WoC throws at them. Just try to get the right tools in the right place. I think that LM vs. WoC is a good match up. Both sides should have chances of winning and it won't be a boring gunline/denial battle.

Stonewyrm]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2461154.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2461154.page GMT Re:Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan? D6 str 5 hits, with NO armor save. If I add them as mounts for my lvl 1 skink guys it will come out of my hero points. I just wish Skink priests could choose a different lore over heavens. I think the Chaos guy will field some dragon ogres this time, which if I recall, love it when you hit them with lightning based attacks.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2461897.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2461897.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2462239.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2462239.page GMT Re:Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan? lvl 1 + stegadon mount for under 300 points. If I use all my hero points I can most likely fit in two. I haven't factored this in just yet.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2462752.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2462752.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2462797.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2462797.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan?
HoverBoy wrote:An EotG comes in at 355 minimum.


Ok, well multiply that by 2 and I a still under my 750 pt hero limit.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2463040.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2463040.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan?

Edit: Altho an engine with a lightslaan makes for a nice shield effect vs shoting. Boosted Pha's + PoW = 12" bubble of "your shooting sucks good sir".]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2463291.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2463291.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan?
HoverBoy wrote:Enjoy your 20 pts of gear per priest

Edit: Altho an engine with a lifeslaan makes for a nice shield effect vs shoting. Boosted Pha's + PoW = 12" bubble of "your shooting sucks good sir".


I am playing against Chaos, they don't really have a lot of shooting, and the STR 5 D6 hits with no armor save is pretty dang epic. He will field knights, warriors, marauders, and some bad dude champions, a lord on a juggernaut, and probably a mage of tzeench or something along those lines.

Stegadons have decent movement. I can hold up in the back, buff the friendly units and then by turn 2 or 3 I can move them in with the impact hits and the Engine of the Gods, and it trumps Chaos's armor, which is some of the best armor in the game.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2463450.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2463450.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan? d6 S4 no armour + magic might be worth keeping the Stegs out of combat.

If I was a chaos soldier and had a choice between trying to cut up a granite lizard man who regenerates and a squishy little newt who was also microwaving my friends...2+ Armour won't save you from Chaos for long.

If your opponent's content to charge your blocks, I say let him. Then buff 'em up and bring out the nukes. Always wanted to try 2 Engines + Kroak for that.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2463480.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2463480.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan?
Warpsolution wrote:Honestly, the d6 S4 no armour + magic might be worth keeping the Stegs out of combat.

If I was a chaos soldier and had a choice between trying to cut up a granite lizard man who regenerates and a squishy little newt who was also microwaving my friends...2+ Armour won't save you from Chaos for long.

If your opponent's content to charge your blocks, I say let him. Then buff 'em up and bring out the nukes. Always wanted to try 2 Engines + Kroak for that.


Yeah I learned my lesson with that damn treeman, and with the damn Elven general too. Both games they have slaughtered a stegadon. However last game they only slaughtered the stegadon with the giant bow. Engine of the Gods does ST 4 hits against normal foes, but ST 5 hits against forest spirits, chaos creatures, and something else....no army book in front of me at the moment.

The no armor save is what is epic. I can totally mow down his heavy knights and his chaos warriors with the stegs. I may have to sacrifice a block or two of saurus units to keep them away from my stegs, but I mean the cost of a 20 model Saurus unit is pretty low, and the fact that even though those units have a high probability of being wiped, they will probably take a few out with them. Plus with ranks and cold blooded they most likely won't break for a turn or two, allowing my stegs to sneak up and use the microwave as you say, heh

I have yet to use any special characters at all in my LM army. Though I really want to check out that Skink who can use lore of beast, too bad he counts as lord points.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2463568.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2463568.page GMT Lizardmen, Slaan or no Slaan?
It's a good tactic, to be sure. A cunning general will ignore your stegadon and cream the lil' guy on top of him, negating that awesome golden calendar thing.

Oh, and it's Undead. Daemons, Forest Spirits, and Undead. Like those poor trees needed any more hate...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2467678.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/344531/2467678.page GMT