<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Khador starter, Look halfway down the page for questons"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/27.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Khador starter, Look halfway down the page for questons LGS, and I've always been interested in it. Thing is I have no idea where to start. I'm more interested in the play styles of each one. I think Cryx has been a bigger seller, so I'd like to do something other than that. But it all comes down to play style over aesthetics for me. I love Khador, but I might not like how they play.

So what I'm really asking is if someone would summarize the play styles. Is one a low model count hard hitting elite force? Is one a caster force? Is one an average force? Input would be great! ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2460687.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2460687.page GMT Debating on taking the plunge, Could someone give a run down of the Factions? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2460742.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2460742.page GMT Debating on taking the plunge, Could someone give a run down of the Factions?
Khador: Slow, tough, and brutal in hand to hand. If you don't want to worry as much about your warcaster, then you'll find some relief here. Not as big on the shooting, but can make up for that.

Menoth: Synergy and Fire. Expendable troops. Troops that get stronger as their fellow soldiers die. Magic denial.

Cryx: The glass hammer. Fast, nasty in assault. Sneaky with a lot of debuffs. If it matters at all, they're undead pirates who are led by a Dragon demi-god.

Rhul: Dwarves. Tough, but very, very slow.

Retribution of Scyrah: Elves. Angry elves. Fast, but generalists. Excellent solos.

Mercenaries: Too varied to say. You've got pirates, resistance fighters, and gold collectors. Rhul technically falls under this, but I like to think of them as a seperate faction. Solos, solos, and more solos.

I'd advise you to go look at Battlecollege for a more in-depth look at the factions. They give great tacticas on the units of each faction.


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2460784.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2460784.page GMT Debating on taking the plunge, Could someone give a run down of the Factions?
Legion of Everblight: Fast glass cannons. Hard to hit, but squishy once you make contact. Legion units/models are designed to be able to operate independently and still wreck face. As such, there is not a whole lot of synergy between models, such as no flank and few buffs. De-buffs are more common.

Circle of Orboros: Generally even faster and harder to hit than Legion. They don't tend to hit as hard, but they will probably get the alpha strike against most enemies if you're playing wolvess. If you're playing constructs, you're slow, hit a tiny bit harder, and you're a lot more durable. They like to teleport stuff around, too.

Skorne: Much like Khador, they are slow but hit like a 4 ton elephant, mostly because most of their heavies ARE giant 6-limbed elephants. They have a lot of synergy and love to torture things. They also have a nice fashion sense, what with the red and gold armor. Looks nice.

Trollbloods: Also a slower force with a bunch of medium sized bases. They are VERY hard to kill with most of their troops having tough (don't die on a 5 or 6 roll on a d6) and pretty much all of their beasts having regeneration (heal d3). They can have a good deal of synergy too if you bring the right models.

Minions: Pretty varied, but can also be broken up into gators or pigs. One of the best feats in Hordes, IMO, is on Doc Arkadius. Don't know a whole lot about 'em past this, though, since I've only seen one Minions army since I've started playing.

The biggest differnce is between Focus for WM and Fury for Hordes. For WM, your warcaster will generate its own limited number of focus per turn. This is allocated to 'jacks for use with charges, extra hits, boosting attack and damage rolls, etc. The thing is you can only allocate whatever your 'caster's focus is each turn, barring special rules (like souls for Cryx). With Hordes, your 'lock starts the game with her fury stat but cannot generate fury herself. Beasts generate fury, up to their fury stat per turn, and the 'lock will leach the fury off at the beginning of your next turn. So if you run 3 heavies and 2 lights, you can generate up to 18 fury in one turn. This puts the warbeasts at an advantage over the tougher and harder-to-kill 'jacks, but if you don't leach all the fury off the beast, there is a chance they will go crazy (frenzy) and attack the nearest thing to them. Therefore, Warmachine is a resource management game while Hordes is a risk management game. The other big thing is that Focus will increase a warcaster's armor, 1 for each foci left on him. A warlock can push damage onto a beast for each fury on her.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2461526.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2461526.page GMT Debating on taking the plunge, Could someone give a run down of the Factions?
Is a wolf list viable?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2464613.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2464613.page GMT Debating on taking the plunge, Could someone give a run down of the Factions? IIRC.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2464774.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2464774.page GMT Debating on taking the plunge, Could someone give a run down of the Factions? other than circle once... just working out that way) and they would have been my second choice. They look like they can be really awesome
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2465915.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2465915.page GMT Re:Debating on taking the plunge, Could someone give a run down of the Factions?
Cryx is undead plus pirates (also undead).

Cygnar is technolgy and lightning.

Khador is soviet russia with giant robots.

Menoth is all about the religious symbology.

Elves are kinda like eldar, they even have a jack that looks like a wraithlord.

Mercs are incredibly varied. They have pirates (living this time), dwarves in heavy armor (when are they not?), and more!

Then there is Hordes. It's like WM but the fury mechanic is the inverse of the focus mechanic.

There's Legion for blighted elves and dragon spawn

Trolls for badass trolls and smaller trolls that are also pretty badass.

Skorne for dudes in heavy, ornate armor (with very dry skin though)

And circle for druids, wolves, and stone golems. (Oh, and werewolves)

Then there is Minions for Pigs and Gators.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2466516.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2466516.page GMT Debating on taking the plunge, Could someone give a run down of the Factions?
Question is, how do I expand? I assume I need some shooty troops?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2473255.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2473255.page GMT Debating on taking the plunge, Could someone give a run down of the Factions?
As for what else to get, it's really a matter of taste. I usually field a nearly entirely melee force, with Widow Makers as my sole ranged element.

If you want to change things up quickly and cheaply, a new Warcaster can do that. Sorscha's rather generalist, so a more focused approach like the Irusks or Vlads could be an interesting change.

Infantry support for Khador comes in a couple of flavors: Heavily armored or hard to hit. In the ranged category, you're really only looking at the latter, with Winterguard Infantry killing things up close and Widow Makers picking off key targets from long range.

On the melee front, your two basic choices are Iron Fang Pikemen, which provide a strong punch at long range with high armor, or Kayazy Assassins, who are a pain in the ass to kill simply due to their appallingly high defense and Stealth (plus, they're impossible to pin down due to Parry and the ability to vault over other models once per game).

Sorscha generally plays well with Winter Guard, Widow Makers, and Man Hunters due to the interaction between Fog of War and Camouflage, so they're all good choices. The Kayazy work well almost anywhere, as do the Pikemen. She can't really run Warjacks amazingly well, but if you're looking in that general area Torch and Beast-09 are your go-to models (especially the latter due to his Affinity for Sorscha).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2473996.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2473996.page GMT Debating on taking the plunge, Could someone give a run down of the Factions? http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Hordes_Factions_at_a_Glance

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Warmachine_Factions_at_a_Glance

Let me know if you think these work as summaries, or help me edit as needed.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2476947.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2476947.page GMT Debating on taking the plunge, Could someone give a run down of the Factions?
Background: Thamar worship is strictly forbidden from what I can tell. Thamar is the evil twin and not a good deity at all. Morrow is the majority religion with a sizable Menite minority (this may have changed since Stryker tossed them all in an internment camp, but then Voyle tried to blow up those camps so I doubt they went to the Protectorate). The Cult of Cysus is outlawed but tolerated as they help the Strategic Academy maintain technological superiority.

Gameplay: We don't have basic grunts. The closest we have are Sword Knights, and even then I would say they're a specialized melee support unit as they really need to be close to a 'jack to get the most out of them. All of our units are specialists. Very, very good in one role, but absolutely crap when outside of their niche.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2480332.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2480332.page GMT Debating on taking the plunge, Could someone give a run down of the Factions?
powerslave84 wrote:I decided to go with Khador, seeing how the Oroboros box is getting redone in plastic, thus no distributors having it. I picked up the box, and some press gangers are coming next Sunday to demo the system for us.

Question is, how do I expand? I assume I need some shooty troops?


On how to expand, I would say get either the faction book, the faction deck, or both. That lets you see what is available (the faction book also lets you see the themes available and may point you toward a certain build you like). Then play a few games to get a feel for the game and your play style preferences. Then just look at what you see a need for to augment your own style. You can just pick up bits and pieces to add. Once you get a few pieces, you might look into a second warcaster. Just changing your 'caster changes the whole feel and play of an army.
Good luck and have fun.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2480748.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2480748.page GMT Debating on taking the plunge, Could someone give a run down of the Factions?
Gr3y wrote:
Gameplay: We don't have basic grunts. The closest we have are Sword Knights, and even then I would say they're a specialized melee support unit as they really need to be close to a 'jack to get the most out of them. All of our units are specialists. Very, very good in one role, but absolutely crap when outside of their niche.


I would actually call a good selection of Cygnar models generalist.

First is the true, 100% generalist category. These models work at range, in melee, stand on their head / whatever
Trenchers Infantry (smoke, assault, shoot, charge, whatever!)
Trencher Commandos (Anatomic precision, stealth, grenades, sprays, longer range shots, etc)
Thunderhead (Blast you with electricity or punch you to death. Your choice, and I likely won't need to roll to hit you more than once, if at all)

Then, you have the Melee models that can account for themselves at range:
Stormblades, Storm Lances, Storm Clad: Wonderful in melee, but a nice ranged attack in case you can't get into Melee (Saeryn, anyone?)

What about ranged models that are decent in Melee:
Black 13th (if you count gun fighter)
Defender (Rng 16 Gun, followed by a Pow 16 Hammer)
Charger (Average light in melee if you can't use the gun)
Journeyman (If he must, he can charge and buy 3 more pow 10 attacks)
The cyclone is a shooting model with a great set of covering fire templates that is also passable in melee (especially when mixed with a damage buff like Positive Charge, Harm, etc)

On top of that are models that are single roll with support
Rangers are cleary a ranged unit, but if for some reason they can't attack, they still provide +2 Rat to friendly models
Precurors are clearly a melee unit, but with the UA they provide ranked attack to allow for your shooting units to be unhindered
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2481271.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2481271.page GMT Debating on taking the plunge, Could someone give a run down of the Factions? UA to get the most out of them.

When the term "basic grunt" gets thrown around I think of stuff like Winter Guard or Zealots. Cheap units that can fill multiple roles. Cygnar doesn't really have that as our multi-role units are more expensive, usually running a point a model, than those cheaper 4/6 units.

The only cheap unit we have are Sword Knights but even then you want to run at least a Firefly with them so they can throw down with Flank. Which means our cheapest unit is... 13 points if you want to get full use out of them outside of your 'caster's control area. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2483275.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2483275.page GMT Debating on taking the plunge, Could someone give a run down of the Factions? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2503239.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2503239.page GMT Debating on taking the plunge, Could someone give a run down of the Factions? They kiind of suffer like Drudges in that there are other units that do roles better than they can.

They are a hybrid unit and so... a jack of all trades that are the master of none, whether that is desirable or not just depends on the player.

Reavers are very good at, use more resources than we cost to deal with us or we wreck your face.

Winter guard generally go with the whole package, so you get alot out of them, but does require a big chunk of points.

Widowmakers are a personal choice, they reach out and touch someone and can be very useful...have a somewhat narrow application but do what they do well.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2503563.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2503563.page GMT Debating on taking the plunge, Could someone give a run down of the Factions?
The winterguard are great if you max it out completely. So great in fact that it's commonly refered to as the Winterguard Death Star. this would involve a maxed out unit, a full allotment of rocketeers and an officer with standard. There's just so many people and at def 14 (more if you iron flesh them) with CRA and CMA. You can pretty much send them at anything and expect them to do some major damage.

Widowmakers shouldn't be put into the running here. They are not an infantry of the line unit, but rather snipers. They're very good at what they do. Especially with the sniper ability itself. I'd try to include a unit of them no matter what the list.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2503749.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2503749.page GMT Debating on taking the plunge, Could someone give a run down of the Factions? LGS considering this game pretty much exploded overnight. I know the other Khador player is using the Bears and Widowmakers, so I figured I'd get the Doom Reavers with the UA, or maybe even the Assassins as mentioned earlier. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2504040.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2504040.page GMT Khador starter, Look halfway down the page for questons http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2504179.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2504179.page GMT Khador starter, Look halfway down the page for questons http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2504358.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2504358.page GMT Re:Khador starter, Look halfway down the page for questons
Iron Fang Pikeman
Iron Fang Pikeman Unit Attachment
Widowmakers
Eiryss

This is a 25 pt list under the MK II that is both well balances and competitive, as well as providing a solid foundation of units you can use with other casters.

Good luck
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2504414.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2504414.page GMT Debating on taking the plunge, Could someone give a run down of the Factions?
powerslave84 wrote:I'm looking at Doom Reavers or Kommandos. How do they stack against, say, winter guard or widowmakers?


AKs are avg price, jack of all trades models. They have the most attacks per model in the khador army I think, (assault with thier gun + assault shield + bayonet). Their attacks are not powerful however, but khador has many ways to change that such as Butcher's feat that adds a damage dice to all damage rolls. Stack that with fury, and AKs become killing machines. They have low DEF but they have the same ARM as IFPs while having better offense. They have so many special rules, from gas grenades to gas masks, they can be really good if you play them right.

I have only used them twice, but I would imagine that they could be downright dominant if played properly.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2504806.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2504806.page GMT Khador starter, Look halfway down the page for questons http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2505679.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2505679.page GMT Khador starter, Look halfway down the page for questons spd but are more like woodsmen with pathfinder and stealth. They hit much harder as well, and have high MAT, ensuring they wont miss often. Kommander Strakhov's feat is great for speed, and the old witch has excellent movement shenanigans that she and scrapjack can pull off.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2505907.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2505907.page GMT Re:Khador starter, Look halfway down the page for questons http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2506319.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2506319.page GMT Khador starter, Look halfway down the page for questons
Playing definitely made me want something that is quick and hard hitting

That sounds much like Doom Reavers

IFP and AK's are fast when they need to be, but they trade their durability for it.

On the other hand, the Reavers have no choice and have traded any durability for consolidated offensive power.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2506525.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2506525.page GMT Khador starter, Look halfway down the page for questons http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2506662.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2506662.page GMT Khador starter, Look halfway down the page for questons http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2507634.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2507634.page GMT Khador starter, Look halfway down the page for questons MAT if he kills something first. His spells also make Spriggans especially nasty. Only problem is his random focus stat, which is generally managable.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2508011.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2508011.page GMT Khador starter, Look halfway down the page for questons
powerslave84 wrote:Hello everyone, Warmachine is starting to pick up at my LGS, and I've always been interested in it. Thing is I have no idea where to start. I'm more interested in the play styles of each one. I think Cryx has been a bigger seller, so I'd like to do something other than that. But it all comes down to play style over aesthetics for me. I love Khador, but I might not like how they play.

So what I'm really asking is if someone would summarize the play styles. Is one a low model count hard hitting elite force? Is one a caster force? Is one an average force? Input would be great!


Komador Cam, we shall protect the Mother Land and the Empress together! ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2509376.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2509376.page GMT Khador starter, Look halfway down the page for questons http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2509552.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2509552.page GMT Khador starter, Look halfway down the page for questons
I WAS going to try something like a MoW list.
But the internet says it is fail, so I dunno.

Just picked up the box today.
Figured I might as well jump on the bandwagon with everyone else.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2509592.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2509592.page GMT Khador starter, Look halfway down the page for questons Internet speak is only worth a grain of salt, esp. on a site that's primarily 40K...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2510225.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2510225.page GMT Khador starter, Look halfway down the page for questons
powerslave84 wrote:Yeah I just ordered them. I kind of want epic Butcher, it seems he works well with a Jack heavy list no?


pButcher is a much more reliable caster than e. Variable focus is a huge issue in a game that generally requires you to 'set up' your army for the win 1-2 turns out. Focus is your primary resource. Not knowing how much you'll get is a far greater disadvantage than it probably appears to you, right now. Also remember that in 99% of games, you automatically lose if your Warcaster dies, so eButcher's in-melee bonuses are difficult to take advantage of without a huge amount of risk. For the majority of games, your caster is going to spend a lot of time in the back ranks.

pButcher (p stands for 'prime', or non-epic) is still a very potent jack caster with Full Throttle boosting all melee attack rolls (a distinct advantage for the largely MAT6 Khador lineup). He's also got one of the scariest feats imaginable with a +1 damage die across the board boost. This plus Fury puts weapon masters lilke the Great Bears or MoW Demolition Crew at an "average" damage of 34-35 per swing while charging on feat turn. That's easily enough to utterly crush even the most heavily armored jacks and casters with 2-3 swings. It's also enough to make your 'swarm' infantry, like Winter Guard, very considerable in close combat, able to threaten most heavies.

Khador, as a faction in general, does most of its heavy lifting via its infantry. Even though Khador has the most durable jacks in the game with 34 boxes on average at ARM20 or higher, the faction offers almost nothing to its jacks in terms of synergy or speed boosts. This makes Khador jacks hugely vulnerable to getting charged--and even at ARM20 with 34 boxes, other faction heavies can easily turn you into scrap 1v1 if you receive the charge.

Jacks are still integral to Khador play, but while Menoth can effectively run 3-4 warjacks in a list with almost no infantry presence beyond those that buff jacks, Khador simply cannot do the 'jack wall' as well as some other lists while also maintaining a well rounded army. The two notable jack casters for Khador are Karchev, the Man in the Machine, and pButcher.

You've got the starter box, so you own Sorscha, Juggernaut, and Destroyer. I would recommend the following for your next big purchases:

Winterguard plus Winterguard Unit Attachment -- cheap crapfintry that can find a use in almost any list. Screens are invaluable, and you almost always need one as Khador simply to prevent your opponent from getting the charge on you as you compress distance. Their shooting attack is actually very, very potent when they combine their fire.

Great Bears -- cheap, elite stone killers. Each model gets two attacks, which is good for damaging jacks and clearing out infantry, and at Spd6 with reach they can 'threat' out to 11 inches by themselves, which is unusually good for Khador units in general. Sorscha can also pull shenanigans like Bounding Charge cast 3 times, one for each Great Bear, to give them 13 inches threat.

Drakhun -- Drakhun is yet another Khador weapon master, and a cavalry model with good MAT and high P&S. He can threat out to 12 inches by himself, but he's also got Countercharge, which means that when your opponent moves within 6", you get a free charge attack with Drakhun on your turn. He's good speed and area denial, which are both things that Khador generally lacks.

Above all, however, I would really examine what you want from your army in terms of playstyle. I got into Warmachine and Hordes for the giant robots and monsters, so even though I started with Khador, I eventually sold it off because I grew tired of the constant secondary role that my jacks were playing. Khador warcasters are not weak, but they are not as awe-inspiring as Cygnar warcasters. Khador warjacks are durable, but they do not on average stand up to Menoth warjack/unit/spell synergies for spell defenses and offensive power.

You have to play to the strengths of the faction, which in general is going to be high quality infantry. If that's what you're looking for, then Khador is good for you.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2510501.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/347566/2510501.page GMT