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HQ

Master of the forge
Conversion beamer


TROOPS

5 scouts
Sniper rifles
camo cloaks

5 scouts
sniper rifles
camo cloaks


ELITES

10 Sternguard
Rhino
extra armour

10 Sternguard
Rhino
Extra armour


FAST ATTACK

10 Vanguard
5 plasma
4 power weapon
1 relic blade

10 vanguard
5 plasma
4 power weapon
1 relic blade

5 vanguard
2 plasma
2 power weapon
1 relic blade
Razorback
Extra armour

HEAVY SUPPORT

Thunderfire cannon

Predator
twin linked lascannon
bolter sponsons

Predator
Twin linked lascannon
bolter sponsons





If my calculations are wrong please tell me, i don't realy have time to check...and my codex is at home lol.
Comments and criticism nessessary
Thak you all in advance.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/351535/2523644.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/351535/2523644.page GMT That's a pretty horrific list.

Rather than point out all the things wrong with it, why don't you try explaining why you think its good? Why you made the choices you did?

Ga.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/351535/2523681.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/351535/2523681.page GMT
1) You only have two troops choices - and rather fragile troops choices at that. Your opponent would only have to kill off these 10 scouts to render your chances of winning a Seize Ground or Capture and Control mission to nil! There is always the possibility you meant to include Pedro Kantor in this list (so the Sterngaurd would be scoring units too)?

2) I think giving your large groups of Sternguard some Combi-Weapons / Special Weapons would be a good idea. Combi-Meltas seem popular! This would mean they could tackle vehicles as well as infantry.

3) Vanguard are remarkably expensive, especially when kitted out with Power Weapons and Plasma Pistols. If you are paying for the Jump Packs they are over 30pts + a model...if you aren't taking Jump Packs then I'd recommend taking transports. Footslogging Vangaurd will be a huge fire magnet.

4) I'm not convinced by your choice of weapons on your Predators. Lascannons are anti-tank weapons and Heavy Bolters anti-infantry. Whatever target you choose, you will have redundant weapons. An Autocannon turret with Lascannon Sponsons avoids this problem and is more cost efficient.

I think you need to consider getting some more anti-tank weapons into this list - Lascannons / Melta / Power Fists etc. As it stands, any player with a decent number of vehicles (which is quite common as mech lists are so popular these days) will give you a very hard time.

Might help if you list which models you have available?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/351535/2523684.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/351535/2523684.page GMT Master of the forge: not that great. better to use these points to get a lot of combimelta's for your sterngaurd..

troops: only two units of 5 scouts? how do you win a game with 4 lootcounters? Enemy shoots down 10 models and auto-win...

with all these vangaurd I would give your sterngaurd droppods. get right in their face with sterngaurdbolters and combi-melta's en mess things up until your vangaurd arrives..
Vangaurd units are very expensive...I would lose the 5model unit and get more troops (in razorback).

Predators need to choose: lascannons and autocannon OR autocannon and heavy bolters. I would rather pick autocannon dreadnoughts...


edit: hahaha iam a little late....listen to orkyben.... where on the same page.. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/351535/2523692.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/351535/2523692.page GMT

I never was any good at making competative lists


I have completely re-written it...or at least part of it...into a 1500 point list, if you guys could possibly give me a hand making up the other 1000pts that would be great ^^




HQ

Chaplain - 100pts
Bike - 35pts


TROOPS

Tactical Squad - 90pts
5 additional marines - 80pts
Flamer
Missile launcher
Chainsword
Melta bombs - 5pts
Rhino - 35pts

Tactical Squad - 90pts
5 additional marines - 80pts
Flamer
Multi Melta
Chainsword
Melta bombs - 5pts
Rhino - 35pts

Scout Squad - 75pts
Heavt bolter - 10pts


FAST ATTACK

Bike squad - 90pts
1 additional biker - 25pts
Power Weapon - 15pts


HEAVY SUPPORT

Devastator Squad - 90pts
5 additional marines - 80pts
4 missile launchers - 60pts




I realise that i have very few vehicals or anti-armour, but as i have another 1000pts to add i should be able to come up with something
The idea of this list is to have the tac and scout squads take any objectives or easily defenceble areas while the bike squad and the chaplain ride into the middle of the enemy force...or their weakest point and tear them apart. During all this the devastator squad will hopefull blow away anything nasty that i can reach....any good?

C&C wellcome and requiered as usual And i'd like to thank you all for helping me realise what a horrendous list my last one was ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/351535/2541843.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/351535/2541843.page GMT
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/351535/2590658.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/351535/2590658.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/351535/2619323.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/351535/2619323.page GMT
Above 1,500 points you need 3 scoring units, at 2,500 there is no hard rule, but you should boost the Scouts to 10 and give them sniper rifles and Telion (he means you don't have to take Camo Cloaks).
You could try other versions of the scouts, but at 2,500 its unlikely they will survive long if they are less than full strength.

On the tactical squads the only thing to consider removing is the Meltabombs, otherwise you've done a smart thing and left them identical. In 40k one of the golden rules of writing a good list is this "If its worth taking once, its worth taking twice. If its not worth taking twice, is there a reason for me to take it all?"

Ok, so now we look at the HQ. You've got a chaplain, on a bike. First of all the chaplain is an assault character, he works best in CC and boosts his unit, in this case, bikers. Now while bikers are useful, you have too few to use effectively as an assault unit, there's only 1 power weapon in the whole 4 wounds. So lets ask ourselves; Is the Chaplain and his bike squad worth taking at 2,500 points? Answer: No, as an assault unit they are terrible, they will fall easy in combat, they have no advantage in melee and they lack the numbers for their pre-assault shooting to help out. Therefore we cut the unit and the Chaplain as they are consider either replacing them or reshaping.

Should we swap the Chaplain for Captain, and boost the squad to 6? Why not go the whole way and take a bike command squad as well giving us to units that can work together as harassment units? This gives us the bonus of 4th scoring unit. Whats more let us abandon the idea of a bike assault and focus on bikers as fast moving fire support, we can add 2 Special Weapons such as Meltaguns and an Attack Bike with a Multi-Melta, the Sergeant can take a Combi-Melta. The Bike Command Squad is even better, sure we can give them melee weapons, but what's better is giving the 4 Veterans Plasmaguns and having them blast 8 shots on the enemy, using FNP to help reduce the odds of Plasma Fun happening Fatally.

The same kind of analysis should be applied to other parts of the list, but I'm getting quite intimate with a glass full of Green Fairy so some one else can finish.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/351535/2619520.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/351535/2619520.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/351535/2619637.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/351535/2619637.page GMT
Also upon rereading the codex, theres a sneaky trick you can pull with the Veterans in the Command squad.

The wording on the weapon options is "bolt pistol and/or chainsword" which means its legal to take both Plasmaguns and Meltaguns on the same models, enabling you to choose between the two when shooting! Its costly as but if you want to be prick run them both at a low point level.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/351535/2619852.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/351535/2619852.page GMT OP needs to decide what he wants his army to do first... (i.e. Gunline, assault, etc...) ..and how (i.e. lightning strike, resilient, etc...)

then pick troop units that will achieve that... then pick elites that complement the troops focus and then decide what support you need to fill the gaps... and finally which HG best lends itself to the whole list to provide synergy...

ensure that your WHOLE army is competitive in each phase of the game... or if not how you will combat it...

at the moment the list is all over the place...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/351535/2620036.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/351535/2620036.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/351535/2626477.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/351535/2626477.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/351535/2652717.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/351535/2652717.page GMT