Secret to using them? Deploy them in cover, in objective range, never move. If your opponent has any kind of deep striking flamers (like obliterators), you may want to reserve them and bring them in on T3, into cover, near an objective, just to minimize the chance of any kind of flamer getting near them.

If they get flamed or assaulted, you just lost a lot of points worth of fancy elves. There are no ifs, no buts, you lost. They're gone. Equal points worth of Ratlings will take them out in CC.

I wouldn't take them in a foot eldar army. I wouldn't take them in any eldar army. I definitely wouldn't take them in a tau army, which has better shooting than eldar. I hope you REALLY like their fluff, I hope you write short stories about them, because chances are when you use them a few times, fluff will be the only good memory you have of them.

Also, don't talk to people as if they've never played a game.

Imbad wrote:leave it to the person asking for advice to determine somethings usefullness

Imbad wrote:1. What the best uses for them are
2. What are the good tactics and strategies with them
3. Are there any nifty little tricks I can use with them
4. What are their strengths and weaknesses

In a tau army... I don't know. Aren't tau supposed to be mobile if they want a chance to win? that's what I thought the tactic was.

Shas'el with plasma rifle, missile pod, multi tracker, 2 bodyguards, both with plasma rifles and missile pods, target arrays and HW multi trackers is 251 points. 3 crisis suits (elite version) with TL missile pods and targetting arrays are 159 points. These are your Tau power units, flexible, accurate, lots of firepower. Broadsides come in too, but they're not competing as directly with rangers.

5 pathfinders are 120 points. These guys are so bad, even eldar players don't like them, and ironically in their fluff, actual eldar don't like them a whole lot either. They shoot 5 times, lucky if 4 hit, then go 4+ for maybe 2 wounds. If they rend, sweet, but you're still going against a cover save. And at 24 points per model, they're probably not killing something worth more than them.

Imbad wrote:

leave it to the person asking for advice to determine somethings usefullness

Ok boss, I thought the idea of asking for advice was to have others impart their experience to you so that you don't need to make all of their mistakes and discoveries yourself. You said quite clearly that you've never played with rangers, then you bite my head off for assuming you've never played. Yes, I'm being condescending, but its hard to speak to someone as an equal when they're fielding pathfinders in a tau army, especially in apoc where the number of crisis and broadside suits on the table is limited only by available models and points limits.

So that you may better determine their usefulness for yourself, I will address your points from the OP concisely.

Imbad wrote:1. What the best uses for them are
2. What are the good tactics and strategies with them
3. Are there any nifty little tricks I can use with them
4. What are their strengths and weaknesses

1. Camping objectives that are in or near cover, such that they will never be approached, but still able to shoot the enemy. This generally means denying your flank to the opponent so that flamers and assault troops can't reach the pathfinders. For this, a screen of kroot with broadsides to hit transports would suffice - defensive, long range, and they can stop everything except deep strikers reaching the objective.

2. Just make sure they're within 36" of where the fighting is bound to be - they're too expensive to NOT shoot with, so you better be sure they'll have range without needing to leave their forest or building. Take them in minimum sized squads, to reduce their threat index and cost investment.

3. Monstrous Creatures without cover/invul saves are your best target, given you always wound on a 4+ and rend on 5's, but these are few and far between, especially not already in assault. Any ICs that end up without a squad, or perhaps small squads with ICs in them to drop their last few ablative wounds, before turning the IC into soup with a railgun or plasma rifle. With 5 shots, you can rely on one rending wound most of the time, but don't count on scoring two.

4. Their strengths is their survivability against standard shooting, and the fact that they are scoring. This makes them effective objective campers against many lists. Their weaknesses include being massively overpriced, with pathetic guns (even with 5+ rending), low range given they cannot effectively move (can't leave cover, stay with objective, heavy weapons), and if they lose their cover save from special weapons, templates or assault, then they're T3 5+ save elves that cost almost as much as a terminator.

I cannot recommend that you do not take these any more than I already have. As I said, they're literally a joke among Eldar players, people who put them in (competitive) lists in the army list forum are generally ridiculed and corrected. The only reason you would ever take them is for objective camping, and apoc has some use for them here, but it would be far cheaper to throw some actual Tau troops (especially Kroot) in there, go to ground and forget about them. 6 pathfinders are equal to a 3 man Crisis team, which are tough, maneuverable and very shooty.

Do some experimenting with them. Take 5 pathfinders (or proxy models), put them in cover, give them first turn. Then, 36" away, take an equal cost squad of 10 Storm Guardians, double flamers, warlock with embolden (or conceal, if you prefer) and have them run towards the pathfinders in the open, being shot every turn. See who wins. Put 10 Dire Avengers, no exarch, into cover 18" from 5 pathfinders in cover, let them shoot it out. Equal costs again.

These are ideal situations for the pathfinders to excel 1v1. I'm not completely savvy on Tau troops, but I'm sure you could do some proxy battles with Pathfinders vs Tau units just as well, if every 5 pathfinders is 120 points. Given their massive advantage (cover) and ideal conditions (shooting first, range, etc) see who wins.

I'll give you a hint, if the pathfinders don't pin either of the two squads above, they lose horribly, yes, even the shoot out with the dire avengers in cover... Good luck! Tell me how you go!

vikings vs mafia wrote:I would avoid them simply on the basis that there is already a tau unit called pathfinders and it could get mighty confusing. Maybe you could just convert them into counts-as pathfinders?

wisdomseyes1 wrote:

5 pathfinders are 120 points. These guys are so bad, even eldar players don't like them, and ironically in their fluff, actual eldar don't like them a whole lot either. They shoot 5 times, lucky if 4 hit, then go 4+ for maybe 2 wounds. If they rend, sweet, but you're still going against a cover save. And at 24 points per model, they're probably not killing something worth more than them.

You realize they are AP one on the roll to hit. How much is 5 terminators? Isn't it... i don't know... 200 points. And what do you get? tell me. A 2+ armor save and a powerfist, or a 3++ save on top of your 2+ and a thundershammer.

Pathfinders get a 2+ coversave, and don't need a landraider to be effective...

Now, what i don't understand is this idea of "making your points back"... not because it doesn't make sense... but because of how people are defining it.

A Tyranid venomthrope, a farseer with fortune, the fateweaver, a rhino will never make their points back. they aren't meant to kill everything. They are meant to do their job, whatever it may be. A farseer with fortune is 85 points. 2 terminators is less points. the farseer must be worthless because it can't beat the terminators.

This idea of "making your points back" died when Victory points were no longer used. And is still a pretty dumb way of ranking your models...

doubled wrote:Rangers as a whole are easy to use. Upgrade to pathfinders, and stick in cover hopefully on multiple levels in case of ignore cover templates, and shoot at small groups of the enemy. The AP 1 on 5 and 6 to hit means that they can do damage to elite units, if your really lucky even a vehicle or two. For apoc, I would run in groups of 10 at least. As has been said everything that can ignore cover saves just makes them go poof.

DAaddict wrote:Rangers/pathfinders are great when backed up by a doom seer. Truthfully on their own they are too hit or miss. Figure it this way: 10 pathfinders shoot, 7 hit, 4 wound. Of that a little over 1/3 of them are AP 2 or 1. Not bad but not really that impressive for 240 points. For 240, I would rather see a unit of Striking Scorpions or Banshees to give you that one counter attacking unit. Or for sheer firepower give me the squad of dark reapers with a tricked out exarch. For the amount of points you are sticking into the pathfinders, take 2 or 3 sniper drone teams.

and you accept that you would be better off tactically with just adding a kroot squad...

Then I guess me and tehscat's experience and disapointment in our Ranger squads is lost on you.

If you MUST take them (I will admit they have nice models)

Take them in units of 5. This keeps them as cheap as you can, and spreads them out in different locations so they don't all get gobbled up by templates or close combat at once.

Sit em in cover, on an objective and plink away. Cross your fingers and hope that the opponent wastes normal shooting on them and not your crisis suits.

Specifically, if you are using them with tau, use marker lights on the squad they shoot at. longl Rifles are pinning, so if you can use the Marker lights to lower that leadership check, you can potentially pin a squad a turn- which *might* actually be worth it

Imbad wrote: But those are scenarios where they absolutly need to take the best units they can to win, this is a case where I already have everything I need to win and am just adding on a little extra here and there for fluff and conversion reasons.