http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/93.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net WHFB and got a bunch of Skaven from the starter boxes and a couple of other kits. After some discussions with people at the Seattle Battle Bunker and browsing some of the lists posted here, I put together a 2000 point list that I can hopefully use as a tool for learning the game and seeing how Skaven work as an army. Here is my list made from the stuff I have at hand.

Pts Unit
------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
150 | Warlord (Weeping Blade, Warpstone Armor)

122 | Chieftan (BSB, Additional Hand Weapon, Storm Banner)

123 | Warplock Engineer, Lvl 1 (Warplock Pistol, Brass Orb)

158 | Warplock Engineer, Lvl 2 (Warplock Pistol, Brass Orb)

200 | Clanrats x40 (Spears, Claw Leader, Standard Bearer, Musician)

200 | Clanrats x40 (Spears, Claw Leader, Standard Bearer, Musician)

150 | Slaves x50 (Slings)

150 | Slaves x50 (Slings)

180 | Gutter Runners x10 (Slings, Poison Weapon)

192 | Gutter Runners x10 (Slings, Poison Weapon, Death Runner)

150 | Doomwheel

090 | Warp Lightning Cannon

Aside from the usual c&c feedback, I'd like to know what this list is particulary vulnerable to. What sort of tactics and armies would I particularly have trouble with (beyond the trouble of simply being a noob at the game). I've played 40k for years so I'm fairly confident that I can apply tactics well, I just need some advice here because I've no idea how WHFB plays or what the armies are like.

Thanks in advance.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/362710/2700402.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/362710/2700402.page GMT BSB should take a halberd instead of extra weapon. I feel like you need more heavy hitters like another cannon or doomwheel. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/362710/2701450.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/362710/2701450.page GMT
I just realized the points only add up to 1865. I think that's where the missing weapon teams went. I should have one of each from the starter set. I'll update the list when I get home and can look at the army book.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/362710/2702531.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/362710/2702531.page GMT
- Ward saves on the general and BSB would be appreciated (drop the Warpstone Armour for a 5+, at least).

- With magic items, the BSB can't have a magic banner, and that's how I'd recommend it. The re-rolls on Ld is more important than negating shooting for a few turns, especially since you've got quite a bit of shooting in the list.

- Second the halberd for the BSB

- I'd get a Doomrocket before a Brass Orb. Cheaper, easier to use, and usually more effective.

- Spears are better than reg'lar old hand weapons, but you could save 40pts if you dropped them. I usually don't run them, since those 40pts can go a long way toward something with more punch.

- Command on the slaves is nice.
While Kenshin620 is correct in most instances, I think Clanrats are worth taking--even without weapon teams--as a way to bring some weight that can actually bunker a character in it without automatically exploding when it breaks from combat.

- Split those Gutter Runners into 3 units. There is essentially zero benefit to having lots of them in one unit. A unit of 5 needs to lose 2 guys before panic. A unit of 10 needs to lose 3. And with T3 and naught but a 6+ save, they'll die fast.
As good as these guys are, I don't think they're so useful as to field tons of them. I've always found they work best when used surgically, to take out war machines or get in those tight spots to distract your opponent for a turn or two.

- Doomwheels...I'm not sold on anymore. They're great against multi-wound models, but that's about it.
The Cannon, however, is a magnificently stupid piece of artillery. The best of every. world. ever.

There is a lack of straight-up power in this list. Lots of shooting, lots of poison, but not much in the way of high Strength. There's also a noticeable lack of magic defense; I'd try to get a Dispel Scroll in there or something, in case that Purple Sun doesn't go off irresistibly.
An army with a lot of armour would prove pretty resilient, and an army that can pump out a lot of attacks would prove dangerous. Warriors of Chaos/Dwarfs and High/Dark Elves come to mind, respectively.

I'd probably try to take out the cannon with fliers/scouts/whatever and tar pit the Wheel, so I could wreak some havoc with something big and scary. The Warpfire Thrower will help with that, though they're not exactly durable. Still, that's three targets instead of two.

It's really quite solid, though. A little different than I'd normally field, but I can appreciate the feel of it.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/362710/2702860.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/362710/2702860.page GMT WHFB yesterday at the Seattle Battle Bunker. (Yay!) So, while I'm still woefully uneducated as to the rules, I've at least seen how the game plays.

I had to modify the army list because I forgot to bring some models with me. (Boo!) So here is what I ran. Once I got home I discovered it was an illegal list (too many rare choices) . :(

Pts Unit
------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
135 | Warlord (Weeping Blade, Talisman of Protection)

102 | Chieftan (BSB, Additional Hand Weapon, Shroud of Dripping Death)

098 | Warplock Engineer, Lvl 1 (Warplock Pistol, Death Globe)

158 | Warplock Engineer, Lvl 2 (Warplock Pistol, Brass Orb)

310 | Clanrats x50 (Spears, Claw Leader, Standard Bearer, Musician, Poison Wind Mortar)

315 | Clanrats x50 (Spears, Claw Leader, Standard Bearer, Musician, Warpfire Thrower)

120 | Slaves x40 (Slings)

120 | Slaves x40 (Slings)

151 | Rat Ogres x3 (Packmaster x2, Master-bred Rat Ogre)

150 | Doomwheel

250 | Hell Pit Abomination (Warpstone Spikes)

090 | Warp Lightning Cannon

Total: 1999 points

Initial impression after stumbling through my first game:

I played against a guy who also had little understanding of the rules so the manager of the Bunker basically baby-sat us as we played our game. We both made some very poor choices in our setup and I'll have to do some reading on tactics before the next game. He left his general out in the open by himself and I put mine in a unit (good thing) that didn't even get into combat till turn four (bad thing). I don't think either of us used our special banners correctly, given everything we were forgetting to do.

I love horde units but I think that 40 rat units of slaves are too unwieldy. They blocked my clanrats from charges and even positioning more than once. Next game, I'll split them up into four units of 25. The other problem is that the slings didn't do anything for me as my friend said they would. Until I see him play a game and understand how he uses slings, I think I'll just drop them.

Clanrat hordes were nice. I definately think I'll continue using the two that I have.

I love the Warplock Engineers. My poor deployment meant one was basically there for the dispel but I was able to wreak havoc with Warp Lightning with the other.

I need to learn how to better use the Doomwheel. I don't dislike the unit but my ignorance of how to play it effectively made it less than optimal in the game. Also, I kept rolling 10s when I hit my own units and 2s and 4s when I hit his. :(

I'm very much liking the War Lightning Cannon. I was able to do some serious damage till it got charged and killed at the end of turn four.

My obvious choice for MVP is the Hell Pit Abomination. That was a fun unit to have running around the board. Poor setup meant that it was out of combat during turns three and four but when it was in combat it was amazing. When I make a 3000 point list, I'm definately using two of these.

So, for next Saturday I'll be changing the list a bit. I'll drop the Doomwheel for now, mainly because I want a legal list and I really like the other two rare choices I have. I'll also recoup 80 points by dropping the slings from the slaves. I'll decide what to do with those points once I read up on some tactics and, hopefully, get some good advice from you guys.

Any suggestions on retooling the list would be welcome.

Edit: Oh, and now that I've played with this army, I understand something that mystifies most 40k players. Magnetic bases. Yea, 52 card pickup isn't any more fun with plastic rats than with cards.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/362710/2718320.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/362710/2718320.page GMT
A few warnings, man:

- your BSB needs a Ward save, stat. Seriously. Anyone who even knows a little about in-game tactics will kill this guy as soon as he's in combat.

- the Death Globe is inferior to the Doomrocket in every way ever. The Brass Orb basically is, too, but, against two or three units in the entire game, is more devastating (though it's still less reliable).
It's not even an opinion; the one-sidedness of it all is infuriating. It's just math. And poor designing.

- Do not split those slaves up. Do not do it. They are a bit awkward to manuever. Learn to.
They are an invaluable unit, but only in large (40-50) numbers. Let them take the charge. Line up some counter-charges. Shoot a little. Charge in. It works, and it's worth it. Any other function of the slaves is far inferior compared to this.
Again, it pisses me off just how one-way this is, but there you have it: fact.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/362710/2719681.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/362710/2719681.page GMT FAQ about the skaven list so I guess I was legal after all. Still, until I see a Doomwheel used properly, I'll drop it from my list. Expect it to return in the future though.

I'm updating my list and I've given the BSB a 5+ ward save as well as a halberd.

I'll keep large slaves for next game and just run them in five wide on the charge and go wide once they're in melee.

I'll do a doom rocket once I get the model for it.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/362710/2721214.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/362710/2721214.page GMT
Pts Unit
---------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
146.0 | Warlord (Foul Pendant, Halberd, Poisoned Attacks, Tail Weapon)

117.0 | Chieftan (BSB, Halberd, Poisoned Attacks, Talisman of Endurance)

103.0 | Warplock Engineer, Lvl 1 (Doom Rocket, Warplock Pistol)

158.0 | Warplock Engineer, Lvl 2 (Death Globe, Warplock Pistol)

260.5 | Clanrats x38 (Spears, Claw Leader, Standard Bearer, Musician, Poisoned Wind Mortar)

265.5 | Clanrats x38 (Spears, Claw Leader, Standard Bearer, Musician, Warpfire Thrower)

102.0 | Slaves x50 (Musician)

102.0 | Slaves x50 (Musician)

127.0 | Gutter Runners x5 (Death Runner, Poison Attacks, Weeping Blade)

279.0 | Rat Ogres x6, Packmaster x3 (Master-Bred)

250.0 | Hell Pit Abomination (warpstone Spikes)

090.0 | Warp Lightning Cannon

After a bit of minor surgeory to the arm with the cleaver on the two IoB Warlord models I was able to fit them into units. So, I put the Warlord and a Lv1 Warplock Engineer in one Clanrat unit and the Chieftan (BSB) and the lv2 Warplock Engineer in the other. The goal was to prevent them from being sniped and also so one unit wouldn't be a bigger target than the other. I'm a firm believer in giving my opponent as many bad choices as possible.

I ran the four hordes deep instead of wide this time and had better luck than last week so lesson learned there. My opponent's goblin whirly-things and a unit of boys with a flame banner tore my HPA to shreds. I'll have to do better with it next time. Maybe start it farther back or something.

We're both new and my opponent plays Orcs. He had real difficulty with my hordes this go 'round. So here's an odd question. If you were an Orc player, how would you deal with this army?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/362710/2745309.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/362710/2745309.page GMT
Beyond that...there's just too many variables.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/362710/2748652.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/362710/2748652.page GMT