<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<rss version="2.0">
	<channel>
		<title><![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?"]]></title>
		<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/54.page</link>
		<description><![CDATA[Latest messages posted in the thread "People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?"]]></description>
		<generator>JForum - http://www.jforum.net</generator>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ So Californians are being sold an idea for how to try and improve their finanical situation by voting on their own tax hikes.  Remember though folks...this is a poll so might not conform with reality in any way...<br /> <br /> <a href="http://articles.latimes.com/2011/apr/23/local/la-me-poll-budget-20110424" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://articles.latimes.com/2011/apr/23/local/la-me-poll-budget-20110424</a><br /> <br /> <blockquote class="uncited"><div>April 23, 2011|By Evan Halper, <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(85);'>Los</span> Angeles Times<br /> California voters agree with Gov. Jerry Brown that tax increases should help close the state budget deficit, and they want to vote on his plan for raising the revenue, according to a new Times/USC Dornsife poll.<br /> <br /> The Democratic governor has been traveling the state to tout his proposal for a balance of spending reductions and tax increases since it stalled in the Legislature last month amid a bitter battle with Republicans. He had wanted an election in June on a renewal of several tax increases that will have expired by July 1, but he now hopes for a vote in the fall.<br /> <br /> Sixty percent of those surveyed, including majorities of both Democrats and Republicans, said they back such an election. The alternative being pushed by most GOP lawmakers — forgoing an election and balancing the budget by cutting more from state services — was supported by just 33%.<br /> <br /> Support for the cuts-only approach dropped to 25% when voters were informed that it would probably require reductions in school funding, according to the survey conducted for The Times and the USC Dornsife College of Letters, Arts and Sciences.<br /> <br /> The findings reflect a significant shift in Californians' attitudes about how to approach the deficit. In November, 44% wanted the budget balanced with spending cuts alone.<br /> <br /> "It looks like Jerry Brown has successfully reframed the discussion," said Dan Schnur, director of the Jesse M. Unruh Institute of Politics at USC and a former GOP political consultant. "Spending cuts are OK to people in the abstract, but when you get specific they start to get scared."<br /> <br /> Voters clearly do not want the taxes extended without their say, however. A majority, 53%, said they opposed reinstating the levies through legislative action alone, an approach suggested by Democratic leaders. The Legislature and governor do not need voters' consent to raise taxes, but Brown has promised to seek it.<br /> <br /> Brown and lawmakers have already reduced a $26-billion deficit by about $11 billion, largely by cutting programs. The governor wants the taxes to fill most of the remaining gap.<br /> <br /> Brown "seems to be reflecting the mood of the state pretty well in terms of how to handle the deficit," said Democratic pollster Stanley Greenberg of Greenberg Quinlan Rosner, one of two firms that conducted the bipartisan poll.</div></blockquote>]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2720745.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2720745.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 25 Apr 2011 11:43:57]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ WarOne]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ I dont mind getting taxed. I mind what they spend it on though. <img src="/s/i/a/6d3c0a908a3861135dfaebde91c0ecf6.gif" border="0"><br /> <br />  I find it fething laughable how the majority of the American (I read an article in the LA times) and the British (read an article on the BBC) citizens say they "universally reject" pretty much everything that the government wants to cut, but also unversally reject tax increases. <br /> <br />  The masses are fething stupid. <br /> <br /> Those are the only two options that work. I think that we should all pay an extra ten percent income tax, stop spending money on stupid gak, and im 100% behind the idea. <img src="/s/i/a/6d3c0a908a3861135dfaebde91c0ecf6.gif" border="0"> ]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2720763.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2720763.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 25 Apr 2011 11:48:40]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ mattyrm]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>Re:People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ The problem isn't paying the taxes initially. The problem is that politicians are not responsible WITH said taxes, which in turn makes me not want to pay taxes.]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2721294.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2721294.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 25 Apr 2011 15:16:03]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ BuFFo]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Yeah,  I'll pay higher taxes if the government doesn't waste them, which they never fail to do.]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2722156.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2722156.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 25 Apr 2011 18:30:26]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Mike Noble]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Usually the people shouting we need to get taxed more:<br /> 1. Don't pay taxes<br /> 2. If they do their accountants insure they won't pay more taxes.<br /> 3. Have a vested interest in government expenditures. <br /> ]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2722246.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2722246.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 25 Apr 2011 18:49:40]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Frazzled]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Cut spending and raise taxes.  If people actually care about deficit reduction, they need to support both of these things.<br /> <br /> If they don't support both of these things, they are not serious/not honest about wanting deficit reduction.]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2722341.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2722341.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 25 Apr 2011 19:14:56]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Mannahnin]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Frazzled wrote:</cite>Usually the people shouting we need to get taxed more:<br /> 1. Don't pay taxes<br /> 2. If they do their accountants insure they won't pay more taxes.<br /> 3. Have a vested interest in government expenditures. <br /> </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Or we just want to actually fix the economy instead of generating profit for the rich? Not that I'm from the US or anything, but we've got a pretty intense health-care debate of our own in Sweden <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(258);'>ATM</span>, with both sides acting like a kind of person that the Dakka posting rules won't let me describe.]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2722377.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2722377.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 25 Apr 2011 19:23:08]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ AlmightyWalrus]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Mannahnin wrote:</cite>Cut spending and raise taxes.  If people actually care about deficit reduction, they need to support both of these things.<br /> <br /> If they don't support both of these things, they are not serious/not honest about wanting deficit reduction.</div></blockquote><br /> Cut spending first then we'll talk. Put the budget back to 2007 spending levels, then wack all deductions and raise the top scale to 40% for over $250M, and 50% for over $500M. Eliminate coirp tax deductions as well except for depreciation of US based capital assets. ]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2722385.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2722385.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 25 Apr 2011 19:25:04]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Frazzled]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Mannahnin wrote:</cite>Cut spending and raise taxes.  If people actually care about deficit reduction, they need to support both of these things.<br /> <br /> If they don't support both of these things, they are not serious/not honest about wanting deficit reduction.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> +1 to this.<br /> <br /> besides... not all taxes are bad!  i like teachers, police, firefighters... and such]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2722390.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2722390.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 25 Apr 2011 19:25:39]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ frgsinwntr]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Frazzled wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><cite>Mannahnin wrote:</cite>Cut spending and raise taxes.  If people actually care about deficit reduction, they need to support both of these things.<br /> <br /> If they don't support both of these things, they are not serious/not honest about wanting deficit reduction.</div></blockquote><br /> Cut spending first then we'll talk. Put the budget back to 2007 spending levels, then wack all deductions and raise the top scale to 40% for over $250M, and 50% for over $500M. Eliminate coirp tax deductions as well except for depreciation of US based capital assets. </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> It's amazing how much sense you can talk on occasion.  It just makes me sad how much of your posting in political threads is just nonsense, when you're perfectly capable of respectable stuff like this.  I disagree on the numbers, but at least you're proposing something.  <br /> <br /> How about 40% for those earning over one million, 45% over 10 million, 50% over 50 million, 55% over 100 million, and 60% over 250 million?  I'm right on board with you regarding corporate tax deductions.]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2722546.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2722546.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 25 Apr 2011 20:01:58]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Mannahnin]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Mannahnin wrote:</cite><br /> It's amazing how much sense you can talk on occasion.  It just makes me sad how much of your posting in political threads is just nonsense, when you're perfectly capable of respectable stuff like this.  I disagree on the numbers, but at least you're proposing something.  </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Thats a little hostile Manny. Here, have some weiner dog therapy. <br /> <object  ><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Wowz2y_aZsI?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Wowz2y_aZsI?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"     ></embed></object><br /> <br /> There now we're all better.  <img src="/s/i/a/5d13fa41280d6fdef786d41bc175d3f6.gif" border="0"><br /> <br /> <blockquote class="uncited"><div><br /> How about 40% for those earning over one million, 45% over 10 million, 50% over 50 million, 55% over 100 million, and 60% over 250 million?  I'm right on board with you regarding corporate tax deductions.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> You're actually recommending a rate lower than the Evil banker? Have you no shame!  <img src="/s/i/a/b3ae9cf68ec71745d6b110374d581299.gif" border="0"><br /> We're both on the same page in that the key is the deductions. The actual rate is almost irrelevant. <br /> ]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2722749.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2722749.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 25 Apr 2011 20:44:36]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Frazzled]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ If we eliminate loopholes and really raise the rates for those over 200k, and move toward socialized medicine I'll accept a higher tax rate for myself also.   <br /> <br /> I'm all about eliminating redundancies and programs that don't work, but I've spent too much time working with those who bear the brunt of cuts to be in favor of massive cuts when they come primarily from social programs.]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2725503.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2725503.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 26 Apr 2011 13:48:56]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Eilif]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ I'll take cuts and raise taxes. I'm with Frazz and Mannahnin.<br /> <br /> Although I don't think things will get better till we can stop leaking jobs to 3rd world countries.<br /> ]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2725524.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2725524.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 26 Apr 2011 13:55:52]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ sexiest_hero]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Agree with Frazz and Mannahnin <img src="/s/i/a/c944477abc92c1c101da485e07ff06d8.gif" border="0"><br /> <br /> Frazzled, you make me laugh pretty hard sometimes with your responses.]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2727530.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2727530.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 26 Apr 2011 21:18:50]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ daedalus-templarius]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Frazzled wrote:</cite><br /> Thats a little hostile Manny. Here, have some weiner dog therapy. <br /> <object  ><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Wowz2y_aZsI?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Wowz2y_aZsI?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"     ></embed></object><br /> <br /> There now we're all better.  <img src="/s/i/a/5d13fa41280d6fdef786d41bc175d3f6.gif" border="0"><br /> </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Looks like my Sora. Sora's got a deeper bark, though.<br /> <br /> Agreed on the cuts and taxes, too.]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2727562.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2727562.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 26 Apr 2011 21:24:35]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Platuan4th]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Taxes are needed to fund the government. When the government is in debt, they need extra money to get out of said hole. Therefore, taxes are good, as they helf out the government, which helps out us.]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2728271.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2728271.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 27 Apr 2011 00:47:09]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ micahaphone]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>Re:People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ I recall a quote that made a lot of sense to me.  I only wish I could remember who said it:<br /> <br /> "I like paying taxes.  With them I buy civilization."<br /> <br /> We just need to work on what we're spending them on.]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2729822.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2729822.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 27 Apr 2011 12:25:30]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ daedalus]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Mannahnin wrote:</cite>Cut spending and raise taxes.  If people actually care about deficit reduction, they need to support both of these things.<br /> <br /> If they don't support both of these things, they are not serious/not honest about wanting deficit reduction.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> The problem with this sentiment is it's been tried before. I'm old enough (not as old as Frazzled, but close) to remember all this <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(14);'>bs</span> during the Clinton years. "We must raise taxes to get the deficit under control!" was the mantra. And yet, decades later, here we are in a worse hole than before. <br /> <br /> I see a fundamental problem with just handing the Federal Government more money again. We tried that before, and it failed. <br /> <br /> Since our representatives can't resist buying votes for themselves with governmental expenditures above and beyond what they are collecting why should we believe they will be any better stewards with even more of our dollars? When there are knock down drag out fights over less than one percent of the annual budget why should I believe they can make the hard cuts of 10% or more needed? <br /> <br /> ]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2730477.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2730477.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 27 Apr 2011 15:24:41]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Major Malfunction]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>The Green Git wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><cite>Mannahnin wrote:</cite>Cut spending and raise taxes.  If people actually care about deficit reduction, they need to support both of these things.<br /> <br /> If they don't support both of these things, they are not serious/not honest about wanting deficit reduction.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> The problem with this sentiment is it's been tried before. I'm old enough (not as old as Frazzled, but close) to remember all this <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(14);'>bs</span> during the Clinton years. "We must raise taxes to get the deficit under control!" was the mantra. And yet, decades later, here we are in a worse hole than before. <br /> </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Not trying to be offensive or anything, but didn't that actually WORK until Dubya spent all the cash chasing bin Ladin down? There's always someone pointing out how much worse off the American economy was when he quit his second term compared to when he started his first...]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2730566.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2730566.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 27 Apr 2011 15:47:10]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ AlmightyWalrus]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>The Green Git wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><cite>Mannahnin wrote:</cite>Cut spending and raise taxes.  If people actually care about deficit reduction, they need to support both of these things.<br /> <br /> If they don't support both of these things, they are not serious/not honest about wanting deficit reduction.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> The problem with this sentiment is it's been tried before. I'm old enough (not as old as Frazzled, but close) to remember all this <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(14);'>bs</span> during the Clinton years. "We must raise taxes to get the deficit under control!" was the mantra. And yet, decades later, here we are in a worse hole than before. <br /> <br /> I see a fundamental problem with just handing the Federal Government more money again. We tried that before, and it failed. <br /> <br /> ...<br /> <br /> </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> How do you mean?<br /> <br /> The "New Deal" got the USA out of the worst economic slump in world history. Government spending.<br /> <br /> WW2 produced the biggest dividend in GDP growth ever seen. That and the Cold War powered the US economy through to the mid 70s. Government spending.<br /> <br /> If you examine the record on the US Budget deficit you can see that it generally gets worse under Republican presidents and improves under Democrat presidents.<br /> <br /> The reason why the US is in a hole now is because Bush spend billions on overseas adventures while giving tax cuts to generate new income by the Laffer Curve. Which didn't work.]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2730579.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2730579.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 27 Apr 2011 15:48:54]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Kilkrazy]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Without pissing on Killkrazy's GOP bashing and government love fest, let me just point out that Obama amassed a greater total of debt for the nation than all the administrations from George Washington to Ronald Reagen combined, but that can't all be laid at his feet. Pelosi and Reid helped quite a bit.  <br /> <br /> I will not argue that <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(50);'>GW</span> or anyone else didn't spend too much. They all did, and that's pretty much the point. Tax increases have done nothing to reduce the debt because our elected officials have no fiscal discipline whatsoever. They are vote whores and use the taxpayer's wallet to buy those votes. <br /> <br /> The *POINT* is that we cannot trust the Federal government with our money any longer. ]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2730770.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2730770.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 27 Apr 2011 16:33:39]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Major Malfunction]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Without pissing on Killkrazy's GOP bashing and government love fest, let me just point out that Obama amassed a greater total of debt for the nation than all the administrations from George Washington to Ronald Reagen combined, but that can't all be laid at his feet. Pelosi and Reid helped quite a bit. <br /> <br /> He had two wars and a resession to deal with. But those are facts.]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2730868.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2730868.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 27 Apr 2011 16:53:53]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ sexiest_hero]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ I don't mind being taxed more if it means that people will shut up <img src="/s/i/a/6d3c0a908a3861135dfaebde91c0ecf6.gif" border="0"><br /> <br /> You can't lower a national debt of trillions just by raising taxes though. It will contribute heavily, sure, but there needs to be more than just that. ]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2730889.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2730889.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 27 Apr 2011 16:57:29]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Samus_aran115]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>The Green Git wrote:</cite>Without pissing on Killkrazy's GOP bashing and government love fest, let me just point out that Obama amassed a greater total of debt for the nation than all the administrations from George Washington to Ronald Reagen combined, but that can't all be laid at his feet. Pelosi and Reid helped quite a bit.  <br /> <br /> I will not argue that <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(50);'>GW</span> or anyone else didn't spend too much. They all did, and that's pretty much the point. Tax increases have done nothing to reduce the debt because our elected officials have no fiscal discipline whatsoever. They are vote whores and use the taxpayer's wallet to buy those votes. <br /> <br /> The *POINT* is that we cannot trust the Federal government with our money any longer. </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> In your view, then, all governments, Democrat or Republican, are equally bad for the deficit. When did this come to be the case?<br /> <br /> ]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2730954.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2730954.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 27 Apr 2011 17:13:13]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Kilkrazy]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ I think it is really interesting that the <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(134);'>UK</span> and US continue to be mired in two overseas wars when their deficits are so high. ]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2730966.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2730966.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 27 Apr 2011 17:15:40]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Da Boss]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>Re:People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ I have absolutely no problem with paying taxes, what I have issues with are what the taxes go to...<br /> <br /> Food stamps, Medicaid, unemployment, and welfare are so incredibly flawed and abusable it makes me sick that im paying for these peoples things.]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2730974.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2730974.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 27 Apr 2011 17:17:55]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ ShivanAngel]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Kilkrazy wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><cite>The Green Git wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><cite>Mannahnin wrote:</cite>Cut spending and raise taxes.  If people actually care about deficit reduction, they need to support both of these things.<br /> <br /> If they don't support both of these things, they are not serious/not honest about wanting deficit reduction.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> The problem with this sentiment is it's been tried before. I'm old enough (not as old as Frazzled, but close) to remember all this <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(14);'>bs</span> during the Clinton years. "We must raise taxes to get the deficit under control!" was the mantra. And yet, decades later, here we are in a worse hole than before. <br /> <br /> I see a fundamental problem with just handing the Federal Government more money again. We tried that before, and it failed. <br /> <br /> ...<br /> <br /> </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> How do you mean?<br /> <br /> The "New Deal" got the USA out of the worst economic slump in world history. Government spending.<br /> <br /> WW2 produced the biggest dividend in GDP growth ever seen. That and the Cold War powered the US economy through to the mid 70s. Government spending.<br /> <br /> If you examine the record on the US Budget deficit you can see that it generally gets worse under Republican presidents and improves under Democrat presidents.<br /> <br /> The reason why the US is in a hole now is because Bush spend billions on overseas adventures while giving tax cuts to generate new income by the Laffer Curve. Which didn't work.</div></blockquote><br /> The New deal didn't get the US out of anything actually. It was WWII only. ]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2731009.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2731009.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 27 Apr 2011 17:25:10]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Frazzled]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>The Green Git wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><cite>Mannahnin wrote:</cite>Cut spending and raise taxes.  If people actually care about deficit reduction, they need to support both of these things.<br /> <br /> If they don't support both of these things, they are not serious/not honest about wanting deficit reduction.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> The problem with this sentiment is it's been tried before. I'm old enough (not as old as Frazzled, but close) to remember all this <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(14);'>bs</span> during the Clinton years. "We must raise taxes to get the deficit under control!" was the mantra. And yet, decades later, here we are in a worse hole than before. </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Is this a wilful distortion of reality, or do you genuinely believe this?  Clinton (and the Congress) DID get the deficit under control.  We had a budget <b>surplus</b> when Bush Jr. took office.  Which we then utterly squandered on tax breaks and simultaneous war.  Massive tax cuts at the same time as massive war spending is OF COURSE going to break the bank.  It's been going on for close to a decade now, and while Obama and the Democratic Congress certainly share responsibility for continuing those policies, trying to pretend that we didn't have the deficit under control prior to Bush is a non-starter.<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <span style="font-size: 9px; line-height: normal;">Automatically Appended Next Post:</span><br /> <blockquote><div><cite>The Green Git wrote:</cite>The *POINT* is that we cannot trust the Federal government with our money any longer. </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> I feel like I'm back at an early-80s Libertarian party function.  Bumper stickers in the parking lot: "Don't steal; the government hates competition." <br /> <br /> Since there is NO alternative to the Federal government spending our tax money (unless you'd like to move to another country), what's your actual suggestion?  In theory Tea Party fiscal conservatives were elected in droves last November to restore fiscal responsibility.  We're getting some more of that now.  Sometimes no thanks to the actual Tea Partiers (you should see the idiocy they're proposing and supporting in our State Legislature), but this is how representative democracy works.  Call and write to your representatives.  Vote for the people who represent the policies you support.]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2731034.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2731034.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 27 Apr 2011 17:32:31]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Mannahnin]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <a href="http://www.shmoop.com/great-depression/statistics.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.shmoop.com/great-depression/statistics.html</a><br /> <br /> The Great Depression Statistics <br /> By the Numbers<br /> The Economy During the Great Depression<br /> <br /> US Gross Domestic Product (current dollars)<br /> The Great Crash, 1929-1933<br /> in 1929: $103.6 billion<br /> in 1930: $91.2<br /> in 1931: $76.5<br /> in 1932: $58.7<br /> in 1933: $56.4<br /> <br /> New Deal Recovery and Recession, 1934-39<br /> in 1934: $66.0 billion<br /> in 1935: $73.3<br /> in 1936: $83.8<br /> in 1937: $91.9<br /> in 1938: $86.1<br /> in 1939: $92.2<br /> <br /> Mobilization for WWII, 1940-1945<br /> in 1940: $101.4 billion<br /> in 1941: $126.7<br /> in 1942: $161.9<br /> in 1943: $198.6<br /> in 1944: $219.8<br /> in 1945: $223.1<br /> <br /> <br /> ]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2731088.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2731088.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 27 Apr 2011 17:45:43]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Frazzled]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Looks like a steady recovery prior to the mobilization for WWII, then big jumps in GDP during the war.  Which seems to be proving KK right.]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2731124.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2731124.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 27 Apr 2011 17:52:15]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Mannahnin]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>Re:People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>ShivanAngel wrote:</cite>I have absolutely no problem with paying taxes, what I have issues with are what the taxes go to...<br /> <br /> Food stamps, Medicaid, unemployment, and welfare are so incredibly flawed and abusable it makes me sick that im paying for these peoples things.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> So, you have problems with your tax dollars helping people? or you have problems when people who don't really need help abuse these programs?<br /> <br /> Those programs help a lot of people who really need it, but they are flawed and in need of reform, obviously.  You can say that about nearly everything, as there is almost always a way to make things more efficient.<br /> <br /> The real question is, some families without food stamps would be on the verge of starvation.  Do you want to starve people so you can pay less taxes?]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2731199.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2731199.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 27 Apr 2011 18:05:18]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ daedalus-templarius]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ I had another fun idea while driving in the car last night:<br /> <br /> A new tax rate of 66.66% for anyone making over, say, 5 or 10 million a year.  One third is kept by the person, one third goes to the government, and one third is divided evenly among all employees at that person's company making under, say, $75,000 per year on their own pay.]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2731223.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2731223.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 27 Apr 2011 18:09:10]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Mannahnin]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Mannahnin wrote:</cite>Looks like a steady recovery prior to the mobilization for WWII, then big jumps in GDP during the war.  Which seems to be proving KK right.</div></blockquote><br /> Except of course it went down in 38. I'd proffer wartime mobilization started in 1939 (or more precisely spending on military armaments and selling them to dern ferreners). <br /> <br /> <br /> <span style="font-size: 9px; line-height: normal;">Automatically Appended Next Post:</span><br /> <blockquote><div><cite>Mannahnin wrote:</cite>I had another fun idea while driving in the car last night:<br /> <br /> A new tax rate of 66.66% for anyone making over, say, 5 or 10 million a year.  One third is kept by the person, one third goes to the government, and one third is divided evenly among all employees at that person's company making under, say, $75,000 per year on their own pay.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Thats easy. If this assume someone owns a company. <br /> I'll never make a $ and will pay no taxes with a proper accountant. Further, I run all my personal expenses through "the business."   if I start to make money I take loans from myself to myself and write off the interest. * Its the devil in the details. <br /> <br /> *Note all of the above I've actually seen in my former life with small businesses. <br /> <br /> Alternatively I reduce salaries on employees and count that tax as their bonus. In the words of the immortal bard shortly before being eaten by a raptor : "clever girl."<br /> ]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2731246.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2731246.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 27 Apr 2011 18:12:24]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Frazzled]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>Re:People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>daedalus-templarius wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><cite>ShivanAngel wrote:</cite>I have absolutely no problem with paying taxes, what I have issues with are what the taxes go to...<br /> <br /> Food stamps, Medicaid, unemployment, and welfare are so incredibly flawed and abusable it makes me sick that im paying for these peoples things.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> So, you have problems with your tax dollars helping people? or you have problems when people who don't really need help abuse these programs?<br /> <br /> Those programs help a lot of people who really need it, but they are flawed and in need of reform, obviously.  You can say that about nearly everything, as there is almost always a way to make things more efficient.<br /> <br /> The real question is, some families without food stamps would be on the verge of starvation.  Do you want to starve people so you can pay less taxes?</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Im talking about how they are abused by people who dont really need them. Im all for helping people who genuenely need it. What I do not like about the system.<br /> <br /> Food stamps- You can buy just about anything food related... If your on food stamps you should NOT be allowed to use the card on cookies, ice cream, chips, soda... <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(72);'>IMO</span> you should show up to a place once a week and they give you a box/bags with your food for the week based on numbers of people in your family.<br /> <br /> Unemployment is also horribly flawed, all you have to do is apply for 2-3 jobs per week, some people just pick jobs they know they wont get. <br /> <br /> Im a nurse so my opinion will be biased on medicaid, but you should NOT be allowed to have children while you are on medicaid. I see pregnant women come in all the time to deliver their third or fourth kid and they are already on medicaid.<br /> <br /> Its not hard to abuse the system either. I know of someone who lives with their SO, but they wont get married just so they can get food stamps. The woman files for food stamps with her 15k a year job and two kids, but lives with her SO who makes over 50k a year...<br /> <br /> Just yesterday I saw a woman in wal-mart, with an Iphone, a coach designer purse, and wearing clothing that I cant even afford. Sure enough she busts out a food stamp card to pay for her groceries... How is that fair that im paying for her damn food when I cant afford those luxuries she has. (course a horrible mini addiction might be why I wont drop 200+ bucks for a cell phone <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(84);'>lol</span>)]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2731469.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2731469.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 27 Apr 2011 18:59:18]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ ShivanAngel]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ If she Is on the food card she isn't making enough money for food. Ever stop to think she has a B friend that pays for her fancy stuff? Or she sells her food stamps to somebody who is going to use them.  400 a month in food goes fast for a single mom. food prices are crazy.]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2731511.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2731511.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 27 Apr 2011 19:10:46]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ sexiest_hero]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>Re:People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ If she has a friend paying for fancy stuff she should be asking for money for food instead, and selling her food stamps... If she can afford to do that she obviously doesnt need them that badly...<br /> <br /> You just listed two things incredibly wrong with the system<br /> <br /> Like I said I have no issues with people who NEED food stamps to survive, I just think it needs to be WAY more regulated. like you have to turn in reciepts every month or you show up to store XXXXXXX and get a bag of food for the week.<br /> <br /> Also you dont NEED a cell phone like you need food.. For the monthly cost of a cell phone (particularly and IPhone) you could buy groceries for a week or two.]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2731517.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2731517.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 27 Apr 2011 19:13:32]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ ShivanAngel]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Stricter regulations and oversight on food stamps and similar programs have been tried and proposed many times.  You have to do a serious cost-benefit analysis on how much money is genuinely lost to fraud, vs. how much money it would cost trying to stop it.  In many cases it costs more money than you'll actually save.<br /> <br /> I would argue that you functionally DO need a cell phone for proper job hunting nowadays.  At least if you have a family and responsibilities that require you to run errands outside the house.<br /> <br /> The idea that you could ban people on public assistance from having children would be rejected out of hand on human rights grounds.  ]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2731538.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2731538.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 27 Apr 2011 19:18:42]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Mannahnin]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Mannahnin wrote:</cite><br /> I feel like I'm back at an early-80s Libertarian party function.  Bumper stickers in the parking lot: "Don't steal; the government hates competition."</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> I'm sort of wondering why a person who believes that the government can't be trusted with money, and that elected officials will buy votes (which is true, because all votes are bought, just not necessarily with currency), would even be interested in politics.  Given the correctness of that scenario said individual should be preparing for revolution or state bankruptcy, not posting on the internet. After all, the politicians have the money to buy votes, and votes are purchased; plus the federal government, rather than particular representatives, is to blame so there can be no change.<br /> <br /> <blockquote><div><cite>Mannahnin wrote:</cite><br /> Since there is NO alternative to the Federal government spending our tax money (unless you'd like to move to another country), what's your actual suggestion?  In theory Tea Party fiscal conservatives were elected in droves last November to restore fiscal responsibility.  We're getting some more of that now.  Sometimes no thanks to the actual Tea Partiers (you should see the idiocy they're proposing and supporting in our State Legislature), but this is how representative democracy works.  Call and write to your representatives.  Vote for the people who represent the policies you support.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Funny thing about the Tea Party.  Only about half of the people who were elected on fiscal conservatism actually voted against the various interim budgets that have been passed this year.  This says to me that they're either more savvy than they let on, which also means they're less committed to the budget reductions they promised, or they simply rode the popular wave into office.]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2731546.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2731546.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 27 Apr 2011 19:20:29]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ dogma]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Different things. Her man bought her stuff for her birth day. Maybe she had a job and lost it. Nobody knows. Before I got re activated The economy crashed and me and my wife lost our jobs. We had bills and after selling all my gaming systems to keep the lights on, we sold some food stamps to my out of work Chinese neighbor so his family could eat and We could afford diapers. Me and my wife just cut down to two small meals a day. Oh on the outside we looked to do well but times were tough at home.<br /> <br /> Point is people look ok but you never know what goes on in the home.]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2731549.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2731549.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 27 Apr 2011 19:20:41]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ sexiest_hero]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Mannahnin wrote:</cite>Stricter regulations and oversight on food stamps and similar programs have been tried and proposed many times.  You have to do a serious cost-benefit analysis on how much money is genuinely lost to fraud, vs. how much money it would cost trying to stop it.  In many cases it costs more money than you'll actually save.<br /> <br /> I would argue that you functionally DO need a cell phone for proper job hunting nowadays.  At least if you have a family and responsibilities that require you to run errands outside the house.<br /> <br /> The idea that you could ban people on public assistance from having children would be rejected out of hand on human rights grounds.  </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Yeah im sure they have, and it probably would cost more, but I would rather it cost a little more/the same and it not be abused to be honest.<br /> <br /> Also I know you couldnt ban people from procreating just because they are on public assistance due to human rights. It is just incredibly messed up that some of those women literally have child after child after child because they dont have to pay for them.<br /> <br /> <br /> <span style="font-size: 9px; line-height: normal;">Automatically Appended Next Post:</span><br /> <blockquote><div><cite>sexiest_hero wrote:</cite>Different things. Her man bought her stuff for her birth day. Maybe she had a job and lost it. Nobody knows. Before I got re activated The economy crashed and me and my wife lost our jobs. We had bills and after selling all my gaming systems to keep the lights on, we sold some food stamps to my out of work Chinese neighbor so his family could eat and We could afford diapers. Me and my wife just cut down to two small meals a day. Oh on the outside we looked to do well but times were tough at home.<br /> <br /> Point is people look ok but you never know what goes on in the home.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> I can understand gak happens, and that people need the help, I have no issues with that.<br /> <br /> However I see the above described so often that it cant be that scenario every time. I also find it hillarious when people complain about money issues but wont even consider cutting their cable or internet. Those were the first things to go when I was really tight on cash.]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2731559.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2731559.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 27 Apr 2011 19:22:39]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ ShivanAngel]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>ShivanAngel wrote:</cite><br /> <br /> I can understand gak happens, and that people need the help, I have no issues with that.<br /> <br /> However I see the above described so often that it cant be that scenario every time. I also find it hillarious when people complain about money issues but wont even consider cutting their cable or internet. Those were the first things to go when I was really tight on cash.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Yea, I have a friend that complains about money, but still finds enough to buy $50 cartons of cigarettes multiple times a month.<br /> <br /> Go figure.<br /> <br /> But, the internet is pretty helpful if you are out of a job, you kind of need it now.  Although I guess the case could be made to go to the library to do your emailing/job hunting.]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2731715.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2731715.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 27 Apr 2011 19:47:41]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ daedalus-templarius]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>daedalus-templarius wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><cite>ShivanAngel wrote:</cite><br /> <br /> I can understand gak happens, and that people need the help, I have no issues with that.<br /> <br /> However I see the above described so often that it cant be that scenario every time. I also find it hillarious when people complain about money issues but wont even consider cutting their cable or internet. Those were the first things to go when I was really tight on cash.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Yea, I have a friend that complains about money, but still finds enough to buy $50 cartons of cigarettes multiple times a month.<br /> <br /> Go figure.<br /> <br /> But, the internet is pretty helpful if you are out of a job, you kind of need it now.  Although I guess the case could be made to go to the library to do your emailing/job hunting.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> I disagree about needing the internet... (at least where I live)... There are probably 3-4 places within a 10 minute drive or 30 minute walk where there are people who help you find jobs... For free..<br /> <br /> Funny how I never see anyone going in and out of that building... They must be perfectly content drawing unemployment.]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2731727.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2731727.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 27 Apr 2011 19:49:16]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ ShivanAngel]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>sexiest_hero wrote:</cite>we sold some food stamps to my out of work Chinese neighbor so his family could eat and We could afford diapers.</div></blockquote><br /> Just a heads up, this is a federal crime.  I think the consequence is a fine + loss of benefits, but still, not a good idea to do that.]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2731740.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2731740.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 27 Apr 2011 19:51:49]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ biccat]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ It sure was a crime. Yo'd be surpried what you will do when your job evaporates, and your family will go without. There are a lot of people that will do a lot worse if forced into starvation.]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2731913.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2731913.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 27 Apr 2011 20:21:04]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ sexiest_hero]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Frazzled wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><cite>Mannahnin wrote:</cite>Looks like a steady recovery prior to the mobilization for WWII, then big jumps in GDP during the war.  Which seems to be proving KK right.</div></blockquote><br /> Except of course it went down in 38. I'd proffer wartime mobilization started in 1939 (or more precisely spending on military armaments and selling them to dern ferreners). </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> You should review the mathematical principle of regression. (One swallow does not a summer make.)<br /> <br /> You could be right about 1939. Without evidence it is just a claim though.<br /> ]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2732058.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2732058.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 27 Apr 2011 20:50:11]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Kilkrazy]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Speaking of taxes, here's another petition!  <img src="/s/i/a/baf5f2e54c6b17d5c5d39aecadfa1272.gif" border="0"><br /> <br /> <a href="http://act.credoaction.com/campaign/tax_millionaires/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://act.credoaction.com/campaign/tax_millionaires/</a>]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2733394.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2733394.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 28 Apr 2011 02:31:01]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Mannahnin]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Mannahnin wrote:</cite>Cut spending and raise taxes.  If people actually care about deficit reduction, they need to support both of these things.<br /> <br /> If they don't support both of these things, they are not serious/not honest about wanting deficit reduction.</div></blockquote>Agreed.<blockquote><div><cite>Kilkrazy wrote:</cite>The reason why the US is in a hole now is because Bush spend billions on overseas adventures while giving tax cuts to generate new income by the Laffer Curve. <b>Which didn't work.</b></div></blockquote>Gee, it's almost like when I say the trickle down effect doesn't work, <i>I'm right.</i>  Who'da thunkit.  <br /> <br /> Oh wait, me.<blockquote><div><cite>Frazzled wrote:</cite>Cut spending first then we'll talk.</div></blockquote>We've already cut spending.  It is impossible to get to 2007 levels without also making dramatic cuts to medicaid, medicare, and social security, which are growing exponentially due to our aging population.  <br /> <br /> Yeah, I said it.  Our government's debt is the old peoples' fault.  That voting block that is the most active and most influential!  And I'm doing it in a completely straight-faced manner, knowing that my own family benefits from this situation because of how top-heavy it is (I have more aunts and uncles than I do cousins, nephews, and nieces).]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2734622.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2734622.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 28 Apr 2011 13:12:02]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Melissia]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ When I see state workers able to retire with full pensions at 55, with a garaunteed 3% pay raise in their pensions every year and full medical care I think "Hey good for them!". When I see them using their entitlements to splurge on expensive cars, homes, golf courses - all for being a lazy paper pushing state worker for 20 years, while I work a real, physical job with no health insurance for $22 an hour and bring home more like $15 after taxes to pay for their toys - I start thinking "feth these guys, I'll show you where to cut spending".  It's what they spend it on that bothers me with taxes. Overpaid lazy job-security-having State workers are not high on my priority list. Schools are, not because I have children, but because I can't stand ignorant youth. Wars in foreign lands are not a priority when homes are being foreclosed back home either. Multimillion dollar legal investigations into trivial technicalities for political posturing are not a priority either when much of the country is lacking in health care and god forbid, getting sick or injured can ruin a person completely. I wouldn't gripe about taxes at all, and be happy to pay more in taxes, if I saw it going towards things that actually help the people in this country as a whole, instead of just certain select groups that, through whichever loophole they managed to finagle their way in, get handouts, while other people lose their homes.]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2734659.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2734659.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 28 Apr 2011 13:24:40]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ mister robouteo]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>Re:People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>daedalus-templarius wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><cite>ShivanAngel wrote:</cite>I have absolutely no problem with paying taxes, what I have issues with are what the taxes go to...<br /> <br /> Food stamps, Medicaid, unemployment, and welfare are so incredibly flawed and abusable it makes me sick that im paying for these peoples things.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> So, you have problems with your tax dollars helping people? or you have problems when people who don't really need help abuse these programs?<br /> <br /> Those programs help a lot of people who really need it, but they are flawed and in need of reform, obviously.  You can say that about nearly everything, as there is almost always a way to make things more efficient.<br /> <br /> The real question is, some families without food stamps would be on the verge of starvation.  Do you want to starve people so you can pay less taxes?</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> I agree with parts of what Shivan is saying. Where I live your either doing well for yourself, or you took a serious kick in the teeth when all the shops closed down. So I see my share of people on food stamps and such, hell even my PARENTS were forced to get onto food stamps for the first time in their lives. I dont mind taxes going to those programs when its for people that <b>honestly</b> need it. My mother is the only bread winner now, and she works at a bank, so they cant afford food and a mortgage, so it helps them alot. Problem is, Ive taken my dad to the FIA (this is where you go to get on such programs) and Ive seen people in the rooms waiting to get in and I had no clue why they were there, other then to cheat the system. One time I saw a guy park a BRAND NEW GMC Yukon and walk with us up to the building, he was wearing a full rocka wear outfit and wearing some rather nice lugz boots. Then goes up, renews his medicaid card, as well as some how manage to get an increase in his food stamps. Im sorry but if you can afford a brand new vehicle and are wearing an outfit that is worth a couple hundred bucks, guess what, you can afford your food and insurance. <br /> <br /> <br /> They need to work on the guidlines of who is accepted in programs like this, as well as watch it with stricter rules, not some <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(14);'>BS</span> of well once a year we have to have a very easy to cheat on, look on your finances. Basically its are you working? No? Ok heres more money. ]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2734687.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2734687.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 28 Apr 2011 13:33:24]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ KingCracker]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Melissia wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><cite>Mannahnin wrote:</cite>Cut spending and raise taxes.  If people actually care about deficit reduction, they need to support both of these things.<br /> <br /> If they don't support both of these things, they are not serious/not honest about wanting deficit reduction.</div></blockquote>Agreed.<blockquote><div><cite>Kilkrazy wrote:</cite>The reason why the US is in a hole now is because Bush spend billions on overseas adventures while giving tax cuts to generate new income by the Laffer Curve. <b>Which didn't work.</b></div></blockquote>Gee, it's almost like when I say the trickle down effect doesn't work, <i>I'm right.</i>  Who'da thunkit.  <br /> <br /> Oh wait, me.<blockquote><div><cite>Frazzled wrote:</cite>Cut spending first then we'll talk.</div></blockquote>We've already cut spending.  It is impossible to get to 2007 levels without also making dramatic cuts to medicaid, medicare, and social security, which are growing exponentially due to our aging population.  <br /> <br /> Yeah, I said it.  Our government's debt is the old peoples' fault.  That voting block that is the most active and most influential!  And I'm doing it in a completely straight-faced manner, knowing that my own family benefits from this situation because of how top-heavy it is (I have more aunts and uncles than I do cousins, nephews, and nieces).</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> only on planet Mongo did we cut spending. We haven't <b>even cut the rate of growth </b>of spending baby. ]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2734733.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2734733.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 28 Apr 2011 13:46:59]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Frazzled]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ As I said, the only way to feasibly cut more is to cut into medicaid, medicare, and social security.  And that's not going to happen because of old people voting consistently for their own agenda at the expense of everyone else.  *shrug*]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2734763.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2734763.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 28 Apr 2011 13:56:35]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Melissia]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>Re:People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Well can you <i>really</i> blame them? They have to pay enough out of pocket as it is already. Im not saying the current system is a good one, but its what we have now. ]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2734791.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2734791.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 28 Apr 2011 14:03:44]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ KingCracker]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ And you can blame the private health care system for that.]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2734798.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2734798.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 28 Apr 2011 14:05:16]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Melissia]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>Re:People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Of course you can, you can really put the blame for it on alot of things. The problem is, thats how we do it currently. ]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2734814.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2734814.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 28 Apr 2011 14:09:32]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ KingCracker]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ And your point is?]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2734826.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2734826.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 28 Apr 2011 14:11:31]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Melissia]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>Re:People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Can you REALLY blame the elderly for voting to keep as much of what the got then? That was my point from the start]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2734838.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2734838.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 28 Apr 2011 14:13:02]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ KingCracker]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Yes I can, because it personally effects me through higher taxes and fewer beneficial programs for myself.<br /> <br /> My grandmother was smoking until the day she died.  Still got medical treatment paid for by the government up until the day she died of emphysema... caused by her smoking.  And when I visit my other grandmother at her nursing home, I see that exact same thing going on again and again and again.]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2734857.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2734857.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 28 Apr 2011 14:17:02]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Melissia]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Melissia wrote:</cite>As I said, the only way to feasibly cut more is to cut into medicaid, medicare, and social security.  And that's not going to happen because of old people voting consistently for their own agenda at the expense of everyone else.  *shrug*</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Some genuinely need it. That is a problem, just like with any handout program. Some people actually need it while others leech from it regardless of need. I don't mind feeding the hungry, but I rather resent my unwed mother of 3 neighbor's gigantic TV and new car while she pays $80/month subsidized rent, gets $400 a month in food stamps and works part time bagging groceries. How is it possible to investigate every handout? Just start looking on golf courses for who realy needs their SSI checks - instead of in homeless shelters and food bank lines?]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2734865.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2734865.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 28 Apr 2011 14:19:09]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ mister robouteo]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Yes, some do.  And because of the inefficiencies and profiteering of our private health care system, those that do heed it pay far more more than is actually necessary to get it.]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2734871.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2734871.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 28 Apr 2011 14:20:54]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Melissia]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Melissia wrote:</cite>Yes I can, because it personally effects me through higher taxes and fewer beneficial programs for myself.<br /> <br /> My grandmother was smoking until the day she died.  Still got medical treatment paid for by the government up until the day she died of emphysema... caused by her smoking.  And when I visit my other grandmother at her nursing home, I see that exact same thing going on again and again and again.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> In the words of the AARP.  <img src="/s/i/a/7ae18ba11c7ba79f6898e876a4b8ba4a.gif" border="0"> You! We vote you young whipper snappers.  Now shut up and make my mocha latte! <br /> <br /> Remember its not the fault of old people. Its the fault of the 60s generation that even now can't sacrifice <b>anything</b>. ]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2734894.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2734894.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 28 Apr 2011 14:24:26]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Frazzled]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Melissia wrote:</cite>And you can blame the private health care system for that.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Private health care sure beats the hell out of socialized medicine if you can afford it <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(325);'>tbh</span>...<br /> <br /> There are reasons people travel from all over the world to the USA for health care, as opposed to Canada or the <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(134);'>UK</span>...<br /> <br /> ]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2734897.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2734897.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 28 Apr 2011 14:24:51]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ ShivanAngel]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ And yet, it's still more expensive and is draining our economy.]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2734909.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2734909.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 28 Apr 2011 14:27:23]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Melissia]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Private health care sure beats the hell out of socialized medicine if you can afford it <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(325);'>tbh</span>...<br /> <br /> There are reasons people travel from all over the world to the USA for health care, as opposed to Canada or the <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(134);'>UK</span>...<br /> <br /> And that's why people in the USA go to Canada.....]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2735046.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2735046.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 28 Apr 2011 15:02:44]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ sexiest_hero]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>The Green Git wrote:</cite>The problem with this sentiment is it's been tried before. I'm old enough (not as old as Frazzled, but close) to remember all this <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(14);'>bs</span> during the Clinton years. "We must raise taxes to get the deficit under control!" was the mantra. And yet, decades later, here we are in a worse hole than before. </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> <blockquote><div><cite>Mannahnin wrote:</cite>Is this a wilful distortion of reality, or do you genuinely believe this?  Clinton (and the Congress) DID get the deficit under control.  We had a budget <b>surplus</b> when Bush Jr. took office...(insert Bush bashing here). </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> It's a tough stretch to call the most massive tax increase up until that date and a one year near surplus "under control". It was an anomaly, a blip and it was mostly accomplished with sleight of hand. At no point did the Clinton administration and Congress reduce the National Debt one iota; in fact the money borrowed increased just like it did before and after that one year budget "surplus". Debt shifted from public debt to intra-government holdings i.e. the Social Security trust fund bought up all the debt. The economy was doing pretty good due to the Tech bubble rising and <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(221);'>SS</span> buying up Treasuries. <br /> <br /> If the deficit was "under control" you would have seen sustained budget surpluses (notice the multiples here) and the total national debt going DOWN... which it never did.<br /> <br /> Who's willfully distorting reality? The guy who recognizes the big picture or the guy rooting for the home team because they fit his own agenda better? Open your eyes, the Federal government is stealing from you, your children and your grandchildren. <br /> <br /> I gotta go back to work now and pay some more taxes. I'll leave this topic to you rocket scientists. ]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2735122.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2735122.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 28 Apr 2011 15:26:49]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Major Malfunction]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>Re:People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Thats why I said <br /> <br /> "if you can afford it"<br /> <br /> Only reason people go to Canada from the USA is to get the healthcare cheap. Healthcare in the US is some of the best in the world.]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2735137.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2735137.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 28 Apr 2011 15:30:19]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ ShivanAngel]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Frazzled wrote:</cite> Remember its not the fault of old people. Its the fault of the 60s generation that even now can't sacrifice <b>anything</b>. </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> I had to +1 this one.  The Boomers are the Most Worthless Generation...]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2735189.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2735189.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 28 Apr 2011 15:46:45]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Eldanar]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>The Green Git wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><cite>The Green Git wrote:</cite>The problem with this sentiment is it's been tried before. I'm old enough (not as old as Frazzled, but close) to remember all this <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(14);'>bs</span> during the Clinton years. "We must raise taxes to get the deficit under control!" was the mantra. And yet, decades later, here we are in a worse hole than before. </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> <blockquote><div><cite>Mannahnin wrote:</cite>Is this a wilful distortion of reality, or do you genuinely believe this?  Clinton (and the Congress) DID get the deficit under control.  We had a budget <b>surplus</b> when Bush Jr. took office...(insert Bush bashing here). </div></blockquote></div></blockquote><br /> <br /> How is it Bush-bashing to say that "we" squandered our budget surplus with tax breaks and war?  We did this.  Our government, Rep and Dem.   <br /> <br /> Your thesis was that back under Clinton they said we must raise taxes to get the deficit under control, and that decades later things are worse.  This is a false argument, as it's acting like we've been raising taxes this whole time; when in fact we've been cutting them for most of that period.  The deficit being out of control is related to exactly the opposite thing that you were claiming.<br /> <br /> <br /> <blockquote><div><cite>The Green Git wrote:</cite>It's a tough stretch to call the most massive tax increase up until that date and a one year near surplus "under control". It was an anomaly, a blip and it was mostly accomplished with sleight of hand. </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> You have a fair point in there somewhere.  We could have done substantially better in the 90s too, and certainly some of that was accounting tricks.  But there's no contesting that we were more fiscally responsible then than we've been in the last decade.  <br /> <br /> <br /> <blockquote><div><cite>The Green Git wrote:</cite>Who's willfully distorting reality? The guy who recognizes the big picture or the guy rooting for the home team because they fit his own agenda better? </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Who indeed?  This is an interesting criticism to level given your "Bush bashing" silliness, above.<br /> <br /> <br /> <blockquote><div><cite>The Green Git wrote:</cite>Open your eyes, the Federal government is stealing from you, your children and your grandchildren.  </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Open your eyes, the people you've elected are doing what they think you want and what they think will keep them in office.  <br /> <br /> Calling it "stealing" is pretending they're a boogeyman and ducking responsibility for electing them.  We get the government we deserve.  It's no more venal, shortsighted, thoughtless and self-interested than we are, as a people.  We need to take responsibility to vote the rascals out and to write to and call their offices to tell them what they should and should not be doing.  I do this literally every week, usually multiple times a week.]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2735248.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2735248.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 28 Apr 2011 16:02:01]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Mannahnin]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Mannahnin wrote:</cite><br /> Calling it "stealing" is pretending they're a boogeyman and ducking responsibility for electing them.  We get the government we deserve.  It's no more venal, shortsighted, thoughtless and self-interested than we are, as a people.  We need to take responsibility to vote the rascals out and to write to and call their offices to tell them what they should and should not be doing.  I do this literally every week, usually multiple times a week.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> A thousand times yes.]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2735856.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2735856.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 28 Apr 2011 18:43:33]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ dogma]]></author>
			</item>
			<item>
				<title>People Actually Want to Get TAXED????!?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>dogma wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><cite>Mannahnin wrote:</cite><br /> Calling it "stealing" is pretending they're a boogeyman and ducking responsibility for electing them.  We get the government we deserve.  It's no more venal, shortsighted, thoughtless and self-interested than we are, as a people.  We need to take responsibility to vote the rascals out and to write to and call their offices to tell them what they should and should not be doing.  I do this literally every week, usually multiple times a week.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> A thousand times yes.</div></blockquote><br /> <img src="http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/2884/yesfunnypicturesracoony.jpg" border="0" /><br /> <br /> Third'd.]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2736238.page</guid>
				<link>http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/364049/2736238.page</link>
				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 28 Apr 2011 20:04:50]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ AlmightyWalrus]]></author>
			</item>
	</channel>
</rss>