Latest posts for the thread "Need help with tactics for Leman Russ tanks"

Need help with tactics for Leman Russ tanks

minigun762 — GMT

It seems like most discussions on the Leman Russ talk about what to equip them with or which one to take, but I'm more curious about how to play them on the table.

What tactics, ideas or methods do you use to get the most out of them? I always come back to the high armor value of the tank and it makes me way to use it as a bully, pushing my way through incoming fire and acting as both a distraction and a bullet sponge for some of the softer vehicles.

Also, what units mesh well with the Leman Russ?

Need help with tactics for Leman Russ tanks

Biophysical — GMT

Interestingly, the guard codex tends to put raw firepower on AV12 vehicles. Combined with the fact that many AV12 vehicles have either good mobility, cover ignoring weapons, or indirect fire, and their weapon destructiveness is is further increased. This often leaves the LR chassis as relatively low priority targets because they're tougher and usually not much more damaging than the lighter tanks. Because of this, I like to use them aggressively. As pure backfield fire support, they are often ignorable on a table with good terrain coverage. As such, I tend to keep them cheap and use them aggressively. You pay for that 14/13/10-11 armor, might as well make use of it. It's sort of like a queen in chess, you want it in a dominant position, near the "high ground" (ie, a good view of important objectives/areas). Your other stuff then goes in to root out the leftovers.

In the role you're describing, a Demolisher is really the preferred tank. It's not too expensive, has 11 rear armor, and has a gun against which few defenses exist. I usually play it fast and loose. Don't fear meltas, play the odds. Squads that get close with 2-3+ meltas get hammered by the awesomeness of IG firepower. Squads with 1-2 meltas (depending on situation) get ignored. Let them take their chances. Even at close range, almost half the melta shots will bounce, and even after pinning, half will fail to destroy. Just keep moving a little each turn, make them make bad decisions to get into melta range, then make them pay.

Need help with tactics for Leman Russ tanks

Trickstick — GMT

Well it depends what type it is. With my rear armour 10 russes, I leave them at the back shielding the manticore. They stay still so they can unload all of their fire.

The demolishers charge the enemy, drawing fire and either giving cover to chimeras behind them or covering the side armour of the chimeras so that it can't be shot.

Need help with tactics for Leman Russ tanks

Ailaros — GMT

I agree that russes are less than obvious. They pay a points premium for the ability to fire a hull weapon on the move, and to have AV14 in the front.

The problem with the former, is that a single hull weapon or sponson shot at low speeds doesn't cover the points gap. So what's the point of shooting and moving? I guess it's to make it so that they're less vulnerable to assault.

The end result is something that has more durability against both shooting and against assault. The problem, though, is that it's still terribly unsurvivable to close ranged shooting and to assault.

With my experiences, the best I could figure out to do with them was to use them like artillery - they get parked in the backfield and hope that nothing gets close. The reason to take them over their other HS options is because they're tougher in a long-range slug-fest.

There's a lot of ways to handle long-range threats, even ones that directly compete with the russ, so...

Need help with tactics for Leman Russ tanks

Trickstick — GMT

They are a way great to give cover to your chimeras. As Ailaros says, they die to close range things easily. However, that leaves said threats very vulnerable to all of the fragile, hard hitting things that were hiding behind them.

Re:Need help with tactics for Leman Russ tanks

NuggzTheNinja — GMT

A lot of people are running missile spam these days. Deathwing Terminator Cyclones, Long Fangs, lots of Typhoons, etc. Generally speaking, you can use that AV14 front armor to shield your AV12 units.

Need help with tactics for Leman Russ tanks

TheMicah25 — GMT

or only take troops (blobs) and av 14 lrbt's... that way alot of your opponents firepower is wasted.

Re:Need help with tactics for Leman Russ tanks

Redscare — GMT

The role of the LR tanks have diminished somewhat over time due to the abundance of cover and vulnerability to assaults, but they can still serve a good purpose. For the purpose which you described, I would definitely agree that a demolisher is the best choice. It's AV11 is handy when you need to get up close, but without infantry support it still will not last long however.

Here's some other useful information about the underutilized tanks.

First, even though on a points for points basis they are not as efficient as griffons or manticores, they are still devastatingly effective against troops out of cover, and can sometimes make back their entire points cost with but a single lucky shot. That's something a lot of people forget, seeing how much 4+ is usually present on a table, which is understandable. However, it's unrealistic to assume troops will always have access to 4+ cover saves throughout a game.

Second, they are great against armies which relies on lascannons (or its equivalents) to take out armor. They can be a great shield for the much squishier AV 12 vehicles that the IG normally have. With a decent infantry screen, melta weapons and assault units also become less of a threat. Against the Tau for example, having at least one tank to soak up railgun shots can actually be quite effective. It may sound stupid at first, but compare the railgun's chances of damaging a tank (50%) to an AV12 (83%) and you can see the benefits.

Need help with tactics for Leman Russ tanks

DarkHound — GMT

People wrote:they die to close range things easily

By which I assume one means Meltaguns. A BS4 Meltagun has a 27% chance to pen AV14, with an extra 13% chance of glancing. So have fun surviving two turns in front of my Russ trying to slag it with your Meltaguns.

Recently I've really taken to running my line-backer Russes (Punishers and Demolishers) in squadrons for the added survivability and to help force wound allocation. "But your tanks get destroyed on a 4+! How can that increase survivability?!" Well, popping smoke on either of my two tanks gives them both cover. Those Meltagunners only deal damage 20% of the time, and if I put the damage results on the tank that didn't pop smoke this turn, he'll be free to pop smoke the next turn when he couldn't fire anyway.

Need help with tactics for Leman Russ tanks

Redscare — GMT

DarkHound wrote:
People wrote:they die to close range things easily
By which I assume one means Meltaguns. A BS4 Meltagun has a 27% chance to pen AV14, with an extra 13% chance of glancing. So have fun surviving two turns in front of my Russ trying to slag it with your Meltaguns.

Recently I've really taken to running my line-backer Russes (Punishers and Demolishers) in squadrons for the added survivability and to help force wound allocation. "But your tanks get destroyed on a 4+! How can that increase survivability?!" Well, popping smoke on either of my two tanks gives them both cover. Those Meltagunners only deal damage 20% of the time, and if I put the damage results on the tank that didn't pop smoke this turn, he'll be free to pop smoke the next turn when he couldn't fire anyway.

There are a few things wrong with this.

First, your math is a bit off. A single BS4 melta gun will do damage to AV14 48% of the time, with 39% being the chance of penetration and 9% chance of glancing.

Second, you are assuming your opponent will only try to throw a single melta gun shot at you a turn, which is pretty unlikely. Most people will try to concentrate fire on those tanks, especially if they are in a squadron because they represent a huge chunk of points and added vulnerability.

Third, while popping smoke helps squadrons greatly, unless the tank was already shaken, it is the loss of an opportunity to fire, and you only have so many chances to fire a tank in a typical game, considering that they usually do not last the entire duration.

Fourth, you have to remember that you can only allocate the glance/ penetration hits- you do not allocate damage results. That takes place after you have stated which tank is receiving which hits.

Need help with tactics for Leman Russ tanks

DarkHound — GMT

I guess you're right, my numbers might be off. I'll use them going forward.

With smoke up, a BS4 Meltagunner has a 24% chance of making it to allocation. Given that Meltagunners come in 2 or 3s, it is very rare indeed that you overflow damage to my other Russ. Hell, speaking purely from game experience, it takes more than one squad just to get damage on.

Your third point is dumb. 24" is sufficient to start firing right off the bat in almost all scenarios, especially given how bold you can be with AV14. At range, few units even bother shooting at AV14, especially when there are AV12 targets. I'm extremely willing to silence one tank if it means both can keep fighting.

Speaking from experience, turns 1 and 2 I've got free reign with my tanks. Then on turn 3 I've got to pop smoke and take care of the Meltagunners who just failed to destroy my Russ. If I didn't get the rest of them, I spend turn 4 doing the same. On turn 5 I've cleared damned Meltagunner within 24".

Need help with tactics for Leman Russ tanks

Rogerio134 — GMT

I played a game recently Vs Marines and my LRBT with a single battlecannon and 1 lascannon caused lots of damage but more importantly than that it restricted my opponents movement because of its extremely powerful direct fire capability.

I field 2 russes one of them a fully kitted out demolisher and one a minimal LRBT, put the demolisher on one side to advance and put the LRBT on the other side with a good line of fire to channel everything into the demolisher in a sort of "Refuased flank" strategy with the demolisher rolling into the enemy and causing carnage.

By doing this as well you create space for other units such a Chimera mounted vets or command units to roll into areas where the LRBT is covering the enemy.

They are excellent and cost only 165 pts for one with a single Lascannon and Battlecannon. I Personally love them and it goes well with my Basilisk and Demolisher.

Need help with tactics for Leman Russ tanks

minigun762 — GMT

Rogerio134 wrote:I played a game recently Vs Marines and my LRBT with a single battlecannon and 1 lascannon caused lots of damage but more importantly than that it restricted my opponents movement because of its extremely powerful direct fire capability.

They are excellent and cost only 165 pts for one with a single Lascannon and Battlecannon. I Personally love them and it goes well with my Basilisk and Demolisher.

I am often finding myself coming back to exactly this loadout. The Lascannon/Battlecannon combo really seems to make the most out of the LRBT. AV14 has more value at longer range and the 48"/72" range of your main weapons really limits your opponent's ability to hide from you. Now add on the fact that you can effectively move and fire both weapons while being a threat to everything from basic infantry to a Land Raider and its hard not to find a use for this tank.

Need help with tactics for Leman Russ tanks

Trickstick — GMT

minigun762 wrote:
Rogerio134 wrote:I played a game recently Vs Marines and my LRBT with a single battlecannon and 1 lascannon caused lots of damage but more importantly than that it restricted my opponents movement because of its extremely powerful direct fire capability.

They are excellent and cost only 165 pts for one with a single Lascannon and Battlecannon. I Personally love them and it goes well with my Basilisk and Demolisher.

I am often finding myself coming back to exactly this loadout. The Lascannon/Battlecannon combo really seems to make the most out of the LRBT. AV14 has more value at longer range and the 48"/72" range of your main weapons really limits your opponent's ability to hide from you. Now add on the fact that you can effectively move and fire both weapons while being a threat to everything from basic infantry to a Land Raider and its hard not to find a use for this tank.

I love this loadout too, but I stick HB sponsons on. I know it isn't a great use of points but it is the best generalist loadout for the best generalist tank in the game. Everything else in my army is super specialised and it is nice to have a generalist. Also, it is the classic loadout and it deserves some representation.

Re:Need help with tactics for Leman Russ tanks

Shep — GMT

Armchair analysis doesn't really ever favor russes. there is always an armor 12 vehicle that does it better.

But I run a single russ in quite a few of my tourney lists, and my reason why is probably the kind of thing that the OP is looking for.

I don't like draws, and I always want to win cap and control, I generally create an aggressive grouping of vehicles to go get the enemy base. the problem with sending chimeras and artillery to do that is that they have side armor 10. You just won't make it. I take my single russ (I usually always go with a rear armor 11 variant) and ride it towards the enemy held objective. Once they gain the angle and get side shots, they are looking at a respectable 13, and i generally take the accompanying chimera and put the russ in between its side armor and the enemy. Usually on a table edge. When I make that push that is going to end me in melta range, i pop smoke, and I'm always trying to eliminate defending meltaguns with artillery in the turns leading up to the end anyway.

If an opponent with excellent, heavy hitting assault units decides that my russ isn't going to make it to his objective, then there is no stopping it. Move at least 7" on the turn that he is going to charge you, and hope on the 6s to hit and rear armor 11 to survive. But thats one less nasty CC unit heading towards my objective.

In summary, be aggressive with russes, take shorter ranged, higher rear armored versions, and use them to escort mobile veterans/command squads in chimeras. If you just want to backline them, and shoot all game. Then there is an armor 12 version of artillery that can do it better.

Unless of course you are playing a denial game like Themicah25 suggested. In which case you completely shut down the mega-popular strength 8 spam of grey knights and space wolves.

Need help with tactics for Leman Russ tanks

minigun762 — GMT

Trickstick wrote:I love this loadout too, but I stick HB sponsons on. I know it isn't a great use of points but it is the best generalist loadout for the best generalist tank in the game. Everything else in my army is super specialised and it is nice to have a generalist. Also, it is the classic loadout and it deserves some representation.

On paper I would agree with you but I can't stand how sponsons look, especially on Leman Russ. It makes the whole tank look too chubby and cartoony.

Shep wrote:In summary, be aggressive with russes, take shorter ranged, higher rear armored versions, and use them to escort mobile veterans/command squads in chimeras. If you just want to backline them, and shoot all game. Then there is an armor 12 version of artillery that can do it better

That meshes well with my initial thinking, that its a bully unit and of all the choices, I really feel that the Demolisher plays the part of the bully the best. Having said that, the Executioner does give you that extra bit of range and any more I feel like people might be more scared of 3 Plasma cupcakes over 1 S10 pie plate.

Does one stand out over the other for being more aggressive or dangerous?

Need help with tactics for Leman Russ tanks

Trickstick — GMT

I would say that demolishers are dangerous against a wider spectrum of targets, whereas executioners are better at there speciality. Demolishers can threaten vehicles much better than the plasma can, just add a front lascannon and AV12-14 has something to be worried about. It helps if you have a couple though, so one lascannon and one demolisher cannon will likely hit the target.

Re:Need help with tactics for Leman Russ tanks

Drachii — GMT

I find that while demolishers are very effective at anti-vehicular work, my executioner is worth its weight in gold for the sheer terror factor. In my local gaming club, there's a lot of MEQs and they're all absolutely terrified of it (possibly due in part to the fact that the first time it fired, it wiped out a squad of terminators in one go. It got a reputation). This may be a local pecularity, but its effectiveness against the ever-present marines - it works on the rhinos, too, in a pinch - means I like to use it.

Just my 2 teef.

Need help with tactics for Leman Russ tanks

Shep — GMT

Demolisher is the most flexible, it doesn't really care what it is shooting at.

The executioner can shoot at lighter vehicles in a pinch, but is more focused on elite infantry.

The punisher (although much maligned) has its own specialty. Its problem mostly lies in the fact that it is easily the least flexible of the three, and worse yet, the unit type that it is most dialed in to fight against is quite out of vogue. (T3 foot units).

Need help with tactics for Leman Russ tanks

DarkHound — GMT

What I keep coming back to with the Punisher compared to other tanks is that my opponents have all learned to spread their gak out. A pile of small blast templates is worthless if they're only hitting a single model. In the same vein, the Punisher doesn't care about cover. The Punisher works because your opponent can't do things to hamstring its effectiveness. The rules are such that mechanized infantry will never be without cover and are never required to be bunched up (save for an Explodes result, I believe).

Otherwise, the Punisher is simply far and away better against T3 or 4 horde infantry.

Need help with tactics for Leman Russ tanks

Griever — GMT

Step 1) Open up a transport full of Space Marines

2) Shoot said Space Marines with Battle Cannon

all from the safety of the back table edge. The farther the Russ is from enemy AT, the less likely they'll be able to get into the side armor. Take advantage of the 72" battle-cannon.

Re:Need help with tactics for Leman Russ tanks

RubberJonny — GMT

I can't really offer anything more to what's been said already as although my Russ' have always been very effective they tend to be targeted and don't often survive past turn 2 Most notably by poncey Blood Ponces and their poncey reroll reserve roll, 1D6 scatter and 3 Melta weapons per poncey squad poncey-ness. But i digress.

I've always found the Battle Tank and Executioner to be the most effective all comers tanks and i've tried all sorts of combinations of sposons against a variety of armies and i've finally settled with:
Battle Tank with Heavy Stubber
Executioner with Heavy Stubber and Extra Armour
(fear the Stubber!)
I'm forced to keep them moving because being assaulted is a constant threat from almost all armies so sponson seem to be a waste and, to be honest, none of the sponsons have ever made either tank alot more effective.
Although 5 plasma blasts is an enjoyable sight it really bumps up the price and just makes the Executioner more of a target and the Battle Tank is a good price for what it is (armour 14 Marine killer), in my opinion. I will say my favourite setup for the Battle Tank was with Stubber and Plasma sponsons at a nice, round 200pts but over all it never felt worth it because of the forced movement or being picked off too early to do much (most targets being out of the Plasma sponsons 36" range first turn).
Life is hard for tanks that scream "kill me!" at your opponent because they tend to have the means to do so But after saying all that i still field them both because when they do fire they tend to deal more damage to my opponent than i take losing them And i could never turn my back in my first two tanks <3

Peace Out!
Jonny!

Re:Need help with tactics for Leman Russ tanks

minigun762 — GMT

Never really thought about the Stubber on a Leman Russ, probably because the rest of the weapons are all geared for busting armor or heavy infantry.

Tactically though, I feel that I have a better idea of how to use the tank, at least in the 3 main variants that we see.