http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net ) but in South Africa the majority (ie all) of our 750 point games for people with starter armies are "carnage": 1 compulsory troop and HQ, max limits as in sfoc, 5-7 turns, model closest to centre of table wins. The advantage of this game is it works very well with a small army, and the other is that you can play with as many people as you can fit around a table.

Anyway, with these objectives in mind:

HQ Ortan Cassius
125
OR Chaplain w/Terminator Armour and Storm Bolter
130

Troops Scouts w/sniper rifles and missile launcher
85

Heavy Support Predator w/ sponson mounted heavy bolters
85

Elites Terminator Assault Squad (2x lightning claws, 3x thunder hammers)
200
Dedicated Transport Land Raider
250
OR Land Raider Redeemer w/ pintle-mounted multi-melta
250

745/750 points

My battle plan is as follows:
Land Raider (supported by Predator) goes to center and camps there w/ chaplain and termin8ors inside it
Scouts provide long-range support
Chaplain/Cassius makes Terminators Fearless so they will not retreat
Any infantry will be taken down by Terminators, Predator heavy bolters and/or Flamestorm Cannons in LRR
Any Daemons and the like will be taken down (or at least weakened) by sniper rifles, autocannon, and other heavy weapons
Any vehicles (specifically AV14) will be taken down by Lascannons on LR, alternatively multi melta on LRR
The Predator alone can take care of everything else...

Now I have to make a choice between Cassius/Chaplain, and LR/LRR. This is still a hypothetical army, but it will tell me what to buy next.
Any help with the two choices I have to make? General criticism is also cool
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I'd recommend loosing the land raider and going for DS with your terminators, with the chaplain, although I believe a termy libby would be better suited here.

If you also loose the scouts, that gives you 340 points, including your five remaining points, to get a fully built tactical squad and a smaller 5 man squad.

depending on your upgrades, I think that leaves you enough points for a rhino and razorback for the tactical squads. You can then upgrade your predator to autocannon las-sponsoon build.

Either that, or you could reconsider the list a bit and try to get everything in reserve, either by DS or drop pod. That way, you can hit where your enemy leasts expects it, and seeing as he'll be in the center of the table... just an idea.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/366632/2763890.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/366632/2763890.page GMT
I think I'd better explain my motives behind choosing a LR... I think that despite the setback of them being very expensive, I know that there are very few weapons taken on carnage games which can take down an AV14 vehicle. I for example only have 3 at best, of which one has a decent range. Plus, the Terminators are already there even if it does get destroyed... instead of quite possibly somewhere else. The terminators and transport are indeed epically expensive, but it will be very hard to shift them.

I have no personal experience behind saying this, but I have talked to some veteran carnage gamers and apparently the ideal winning armies that other people use for carnage focus more on being in the center and weathering attacks through: I guess this is because of the fact that it is easier to be there already and suffer anything thrown at you than to displace your opponents' units in time for the game end. However, what i've drawn up is a very sort of "defensive" army if you see what I mean.

I thought long and hard about a librarian actually, but the worst thing is to have your terminators retreat from the center, because then you're essentially screwed! I believe that the Fearless bonus is more valuable than psychic powers. Maybe, maybe not ah well we'll wait and see! Esp seeing as i have a defensive army after all.

Despite the significant firepower that 15 Marines can bring to bear, relying too much on my infantry will leave me heavily out-weaponed, and again, it will be nigh impossible to shift any monoliths or the like from the center. Plus, scouts provide specialist weaponry, and I also don't "waste" points on them if you see what I mean.

It seems to me as though your mindset is geared a bit more towards versatility than is necessary in a carnage game. As one of the vets I talked to said, "The best carnage armies are the ones that can get heavy stuff in the center, LRs, Monoliths, Predators, Battlewagons, heavy defensive stuff. at the beginning of the game, and keep it there. heavy vehicles with heavily-armoured squads inside aren't gonna get shifted." That's what I was trying to do, and I think from the advice I've gathered a defensive force on the table is far more valuable than an offensive force off it. However, you do have a very valid point, as if squad x is going to endure 7 turns of fire it will last a lot less than if it only endured 3, even if it is now the attacking army

I really appreciate the advice . I'm still not entirely sure whether a more-infantry based army mobilized in light APCs will work better than one or two heavy units. I guess only time will tell, but I think I'll stick with the latter... Of the few carnage games I have played, I know for a fact either of these lists would probably win them.

I think you have a point with the librarian because unleashing Vortex of Doom on pretty much anything would be bad-ass indeed it's a tough call, I think I'll get both and see what happens with either!

Even if I haven't changed my army list much, at the very least you've helped me think about potential issues within my list. I think I just need to see what happens! the dice gods will decide! Worst case scenario, I'll be back here in a few months writing about my great idea for an offensive carnage army list!

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/366632/2764503.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/366632/2764503.page GMT having had a new for an army list, and thus been converted to s.

HQ
Captain on Space Marine Bike w/ Power Sword
150

Elites
Terminator Assault Squad
200

Troops
Bike Squad w/ 5 extra bikes, 2x meltagun
235

Fast Attack
Attack Bike w/ multi-melta
50

Fast Attack
Bike Squad w/ plasma gun, meltagun
105

Terminators start the game in reserve and will deep strike onto the table.
Bikes will roar around in true style, and shoot things.

I'm considering making the second bike squad more numerous, instead of having heavy weapons.

Advice is greatly appreciated! I haven't bought it all yet so it might be vital...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/366632/2869605.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/366632/2869605.page GMT