http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net 40k, or at least people new to a particular codex. The idea is to present a much smaller list of options, all of which are competitive. That way the new player doesn't have to slog through a codex, but you're not making a whole list for them either.

Heres my list for vanilla Marines, are there any options you think I'm missing, any options that need tweaking?

Remember these represent the only options a player can choose from while making their army. Some options might not be here because I don't have models for them, but I don't mind subbing:

Terminator Librarian (1#, 175 pts) ...in Terminator Armour; Epistolary; Force Dome; Null Zone

Terminator Chaplain (1#, 145 pts) Rosarius; Crozius Arcanum; Digital Weapons; Combi-Flamer

Beamer Bike - Master of the Forge (1#, 155 pts) Bike; Converison Beamer

Tac Squad in a Rhino (11#, 250 pts)
9 Tactical Marines: Meltagun; Lascannon
1 Sergeant: Melta Bombs; Power Fist
1 Rhino: Storm Bolter

Cheaper Tac Squad (10#, 205 pts)
9 Tactical Marines: Meltagun; Missile Launcher
1 Sergeant: Melta Bombs; Power Fist x1

7 Snipers + Telion (8#, 195 pts): Camo Cloaks; 1 Heavy Bolter w/Hellfire Shells; Sergeant Telion

6 Snipers (6#, 116 pts): Camo Cloaks; 1 Heavy Bolter w/Hellfire Shells

Land Raider Crusader (1#, 285 pts): Extra Armor; Multi-Melta; Pintle-mounted Storm Bolter

Terminator Assault Squad (5#, 200 pts) 5x Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield

Ironclad Dreadnought (2#, 180 pts): Extra Armor; Dreadnought CCW; Meltagun; Seismic Hammer; Heavy Flamer
1 Drop Pod

Vanilla Dreadnought (2#, 165 pts): Extra Armor; Dreadnought CCW; Multi-Melta; Heavy Flamer
1 Drop Pod

Land Raider (2#, 355 pts): Extra Armor; Multi-Melta; Pintle-mounted Storm Bolter; 2x Twin Linked Lascannons; Twin Linked Heavy Bolter; Brother-Sergeant Chronus;

Assault Squad (10#, 245 pts): 2x Flamers
1 Sergeant: Melta Bombs; Lightning Claws (pair)

Land Speeder Squadron (2#, 180 pts): Multi-Melta + Multi-Melta, and Multi-Melta + Typhoon Missile Launcher
[list]Devastator Squad (5#, 165 pts): Missile Launcher x4, Combi-Meltagun x1, Meltabombs

Vindicator (1#, 130 pts): Extra Armor

Sternguard Veteran Squad (9#, 275 pts)
7 Sternguard Veterans: Combi-Meltagun x3
1 Sergeant: Melta Bombs
1 Drop Pod: Deathwind Missile Launcher

Thunderfire Cannon (1#, 100 pts)

Dakka Predator (1#, 110 pts): Extra Armor; Pintle-mounted Storm Bolter; Autocannon; Heavy Bolter (each side))

Pewpew Lasers Predator (1#, 190 pts): Extra Armor; Pintle-mounted Storm Bolter; Twin Linked Lascannon; Lascannon (each side))

Pewpew Dreadnought (1#, 160 pts): Extra Armor; Twin Linked Lascannon; Missile Launcher)

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Everything needs tweaking. You're spending way too many points on upgrades and you're not considering what the unit is actually supposed to do.

I like the idea though.

Librarian - Nullzone, Avenger - 100
*Chaplain - Jump Pack - 115
Master of the Forge - Conversion beamer, Bike - 155
Tactical Squad - Meltagun, Missile Launcher, Combi-Flamer, Rhino - 220
Tactical Squad - Combi-Melta, Razorback with Lascannon/Plasma Guns - 175
Scout Squad - 4 Sniper Rifles, 1 Heavy Bolter - 85
Land Raider Crusader - Extra Armour, Mutli-Melta - 275
Assault Terminators - 4 TH/SS, 1 2 x LC - 200
Ironclad Dreadnought - Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod - 180
Dreadnought - Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod - 150
Dreadnought - 2 x TL-Autocannon - 125
Land Raider - Extra Armour - 265
*Assault Squad - 2 Flamers, Powerfist - 235
Land Speeder - Typhoon Missile Launcher - 90
Land Speeder - Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer - 70
Vindicator - 115
Predator - Heavy Bolter Sponsons - 85
Predator - Lascannon Sponsons - 120
Devastator Squad - 4 Missile Launchers - 150

There you go, breath the sweet air of competitiveness. Notice how every unit listed above still perform that same job but costs far less?
Extra Armour on shooting vehicles is fail; pintle mounter storm bolters everywhere is fail; Land Speeders with Melta/Typhoon combination is fail; Powerfists on Tactical marines is fail; Epistolary upgrade is fail; Brother-Sergeant Chronus is fail; Devastator Squads with Meltabombs is fail.
There are some units that can't really be pre-made, such as Sternguard, as they're only used to fill a specific gap in a list.
The units marked * are still terrible, no matter how optimised they may be.

I do like the idea though, but it's better if you're giving your players good options to start with.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/372427/2869901.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/372427/2869901.page GMT