<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "How does a Leman Russ shoot?"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/31.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net How does a Leman Russ shoot? AV of the building by -1 to represent lobbing a shell onto the roof where its not as armoured. However when I got home I thought of a Leman Russ firing at a bastion and how it would shoot at the walls and not lob a shells onto the roof because it physically can't.

Long story short I've decided to change the rule so it only works with barrage weapons but I know my friend will b&#ch that a russ would be able to lob a shell onto the top a bastion. So would it? Am I right to change our rule or is he right that russes can essentially be used as artillery?

Also any numbers, proof or even bits from novels would be appreciated cause I know he's not going to give up something that benfits him so easily without and form of support on my side.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/2987176.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/2987176.page GMT How does a Leman Russ shoot? Of course, this is just my rather inexpert opinion, but take it as you wish.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/2987199.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/2987199.page GMT How does a Leman Russ shoot? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/2987203.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/2987203.page GMT How does a Leman Russ shoot? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/2987384.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/2987384.page GMT Re:How does a Leman Russ shoot?
Any siege variant of a russ should hit the "side-armor" of a building, but as AV 14 is maximum a demosliher should have a good chance to ruin the building and without the walls the roof comes down soon..
So yes if he levels the building, he can lob at the roof when it is at the ground

Heard its 45° upwards as max traverse for russes, but sadly cannot remember where. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/2987388.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/2987388.page GMT Re:How does a Leman Russ shoot?
1hadhq wrote:In cities of death, only barrage hits from above.

Any siege variant of a russ should hit the "side-armor" of a building, but as AV 14 is maximum a demosliher should have a good chance to ruin the building and without the walls the roof comes down soon..
So yes if he levels the building, he can lob at the roof when it is at the ground

Heard its 45° upwards as max traverse for russes, but sadly cannot remember where.


Main rulebook states all vehicles have either:

a) 45° vertical Traverse(that's 22.5°, up and down) for non-articulated mounts on the model

-or-

b) A traverse of exactly what the model can traverse.

Imperial Armor 1, Tech-Spec states a -8°, to +20°, +22°, +25°, or +26° traverse; depending on the individual variant(MBT is -8° to +22°). this means none of them are capable of firing in a Barrage form since the Highest elevation Traverse will do little more than counteract gravity at extreme ranges.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/2987434.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/2987434.page GMT How does a Leman Russ shoot? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/2992120.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/2992120.page GMT How does a Leman Russ shoot?
Psienesis wrote:It's theoretically possible for a tank to lob a round to strike the roof of a building... but unless your gaming table is twenty feet long, the tank's going to be too close to its target to bother doing that. The maximum traverse of the cannon doesn't permit enough arc on the shot, unless the tank is firing from elevation (a hill or similar) and the target rooftop is at lower elevation from the tank.


Almost works, until you remember the max range on a battle cannon.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/2992796.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/2992796.page GMT How does a Leman Russ shoot?
Upshot? I agree that it's not really within the scope of the game to use battle-tanks as indirect artillery support, I'm just pointing out a scenario in which it would be possible, not that such a scenario is likely to be common in a 40K game.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/2992963.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/2992963.page GMT How does a Leman Russ shoot? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/2992988.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/2992988.page GMT How does a Leman Russ shoot?
All possible with a tank, to be sure, perhaps not possible within the scope of the rules of 40K.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/2993474.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/2993474.page GMT How does a Leman Russ shoot?
The thing is that the Rounds for the battle-cannon are depicted as fully-cased shells Artillery ballistics use Charge packets and a single shell(i.e. they are caseless); this is so the shell can be fired both via parabolic arc and with exactly the velocity required for ToT.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/2997851.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/2997851.page GMT How does a Leman Russ shoot? 40K...not possible. Sorry.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/3012633.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/3012633.page GMT Re:How does a Leman Russ shoot?
In rules terms the Leman does not hit side armor as we would expect if it was 'lobbing' the shell. If you want something 'lobbing' shells, you need artillery of some kind. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/3012652.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/3012652.page GMT Re:How does a Leman Russ shoot?
heck, we do bombardments with Abrams tanks who don't have much more of a traverse in the verticle direction(of course this is on desert terrain and over the curviture of the earth)

course, the Lemun Russ tanks need their turrets to be far larger to fit the gun so the scale is abit off.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/3016902.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/3016902.page GMT Re:How does a Leman Russ shoot?
Tanks != Mobile Artillery, even though they kinda look the same. A tank's rifle, and an arty piece's howitzer are very very different weapons. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/3017459.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/3017459.page GMT Re:How does a Leman Russ shoot?
ChrisWWII wrote:In theory, but the shell will be leaving so fast that minimum range will be extreme.


That's pretty much the sum of it, ChrisWWII is right.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/3017474.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/3017474.page GMT Re:How does a Leman Russ shoot?
ChrisWWII wrote:In theory, but the shell will be leaving so fast that minimum range will be extreme.

Tanks != Mobile Artillery, even though they kinda look the same. A tank's rifle, and an arty piece's howitzer are very very different weapons.

You got it! ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/3031057.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/3031057.page GMT How does a Leman Russ shoot? 40k isn't real life so I don't know what kind of ammunitions they have. But if I was me i wouldn't be so stubborn as a player and just except it. If every call was made your way then you wouldn't have any fun.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/3032786.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/3032786.page GMT How does a Leman Russ shoot?
It would suggest that these tanks (Bassie as far as i know is the only one but i'm happy to be proved wrong) can level their guns for direct fire, or traverse the barrell quite far up to allow for barrage (or lobbing) of shells.

Admittedly i have no idea how actual tanks work and am going off personal opinion and movies (i know, sorry). But when do you ever see a battle tank roll up to a building and lob a shell on the roof. They will always take a straight shot and blow out the walls. i suppose a tank could do it but they would need to be much further away, with a longer range gun......at which point they become an artillary piece anyway.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/3034101.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/3034101.page GMT How does a Leman Russ shoot? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/3035444.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/3035444.page GMT How does a Leman Russ shoot?
Admittedly i have no idea how actual tanks work and am going off personal opinion and movies (i know, sorry). But when do you ever see a battle tank roll up to a building and lob a shell on the roof. They will always take a straight shot and blow out the walls. i suppose a tank could do it but they would need to be much further away, with a longer range gun......at which point they become an artillary piece anyway.


This is, basically, what I was saying. A tank *can* lob a shell like an artillery piece... provided its mechanics allow it to traverse its turret up to 75, 80 degrees (less if the target is much further away)... but, why would you do this? Shoot the target in the face! You're a *tank*!

There are recorded instances of tanks and tank destroyers driving up ramps to fire at a high angle as substitute artillery pieces. It works but it's obviously a silly thing to do most of the time. The majority of tanks the majority of the time won't be shooting like that.


Yep. Throughout their history, some tank commanders have just gotten straight-up stupid with the tricks they've pulled out of their sleeves regarding their armor... but doing that sort of thing is really rather out of the scope of the tabletop game.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/3035824.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/3035824.page GMT How does a Leman Russ shoot?
Praxiss wrote:

Admittedly i have no idea how actual tanks work and am going off personal opinion and movies (i know, sorry). But when do you ever see a battle tank roll up to a building and lob a shell on the roof. They will always take a straight shot and blow out the walls. i suppose a tank could do it but they would need to be much further away, with a longer range gun......at which point they become an artillary piece anyway.


The biggest difference between tanks and artllery (besides armor and type of ammo) is velocity of shell.

Tanks fire high velocity shells in an attempt to have the ability to shoot accurately at long range, in addition, the speed often helps them penetrate armor better.

Artillery pieces tend to fire shells at a much lower velocity. Given that artillery is usually going for indirect fire, they want their shell to be able to arc in a ballistic trajectory, and not land an ungodly distance away.

So yeah, like I said. In theory tanks can function as makeshift arty, and arty can serve as make shift direct fire units, but they work much better doing what they were oriingally designed for. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/3035864.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/3035864.page GMT How does a Leman Russ shoot?
Psienesis wrote:
There are recorded instances of tanks and tank destroyers driving up ramps to fire at a high angle as substitute artillery pieces. It works but it's obviously a silly thing to do most of the time. The majority of tanks the majority of the time won't be shooting like that.


Yep. Throughout their history, some tank commanders have just gotten straight-up stupid with the tricks they've pulled out of their sleeves regarding their armor... but doing that sort of thing is really rather out of the scope of the tabletop game.


Actually, I remember that during the Taros campaign, a few tallarn regiments ended up stranded in front of a mountainous area full of kroots. The infantry companies were losing in the game of cat and mouse they played in the mountains with the kroots, so they took the habit of relying on their artillery to smoke out the xenos. But since basilics and bombards could not cope with the number of demands for artillery support, they ended up using their tanks (which had been left behind with the artillery companies since they could not advance through this kind of terrain) as artillery pieces.

Guess what happened next? Nothing. The kroots continued playing cat and mouse and ended up chasing the tallarn all the way back to their landing site a few months later (capturing said artillery pieces and tanks on the way).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/3035886.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/378669/3035886.page GMT