<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "1750 point ultramarine tournament list need help"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net 1750 point ultramarine tournament list need help
4 X Troops: Tactical Squad 215 (10 man)
Missile Launcher; Rhino; Plasmagun

2 X Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron 90
Heavy Bolter; Typhoon Missile Launcher

Elite: Dreadnought 115
assault cannon, dreadnaught ccw

Fast Attack: Assault Squad 225 (10 man)
Flamer X2, sergeant with a bolt pistol and power weapon

HQ: Space Marine Chaplain 115
Jump Pack; Bolt Pistol; Crozius Arcanum

3X Heavy Support: Predator 85
Autocannon; Heavy Bolter (each side]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/381758/3046830.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/381758/3046830.page GMT Re:1750 point ultramarine tournament list need help
HQ-
Chaplain - Why are you taking a chaplain? While in Ye Olde times I would also run a 10 man ASM squad with a chaplain as a turbo-ginsu squad, those were also back in the days when rhinos were a point sink, fearless wasn't horrible, and a chaplain could be outfitted to go blow for blow with most any other HQ in the game. Nowadays, the only thing he has going for him is the rosarius and the reroll hits for the initial charge. This is compared to a Librarian, which gives you access to the awesome list of SM spells. Even a captain here would allow you to get a FNP bike CC squad, which I think I would rather have over an ASM + Chaplain squad.

4x tactical squads: I -hate- tactical squads. I do. A pair of these squads is fine for this points value. Drop the rest, spend the points on things that A: Won't die or B: Makes other things die. With a ML + PG loadout, I am guessing you intend to sit back and shoot. I'm pretty sure that with 430 points for dropping the two tactical squads, I can put something else on the board that does a lot better at shooting things than both tac squads combined.

Land speeders - Good to go!

Assault marine squad - 235 points. Way you have them set up, admittedly, they WILL shred anything firewarrior/boyz equivalent or lighter, but think on this: 225 points of assault marines, or five TH/SS terminators and some change. ATs will wade into fights that would annihilate the whole ASM squad and come out the other side laughing, generally speaking. ASM at this point, are just a gimpy grey hunter squad that moves fast. Unless you have a very clever plan to bully the units that cannot possibly fight off an ASM charge, don't bother. ATs or CC command squads will serve you better.

Dreadnought: This is interesting. I don't think it's really a bad choice, I run a TLLC dread myself...but my question is, your list appears to have everything sitting back and plinking away with 48 inch range weapons, or at minimum 24 inch...and then you have a non-pod, close range dread and an ASM deathstar rushing forward all on their lonesome?

Predators - Very nice anti infantry firepower...I myself prefer the auto-las predators, but to each his own on this one. Only thing I can say here is "I wish we had the BA predators that can actually move and shoot in a useful capacity." ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/381758/3046871.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/381758/3046871.page GMT 1750 point ultramarine tournament list need help
Sc077y wrote:ok, so i revised the origional tournament list to hopefully give it some more teeth, and increase the tatical flexibility to handle all comers. please let me know what you think of the army list and any feedback is greatly appreciated and welcomed...here goes...

4 X Troops: Tactical Squad 215 (10 man)
Missile Launcher; Rhino; Plasmagun

2 X Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron 90
Heavy Bolter; Typhoon Missile Launcher

Elite: Dreadnought 115
assault cannon, dreadnaught ccw

Fast Attack: Assault Squad 225 (10 man)
Flamer X2, sergeant with a bolt pistol and power weapon

HQ: Space Marine Chaplain 115
Jump Pack; Bolt Pistol; Crozius Arcanum

3X Heavy Support: Predator 85
Autocannon; Heavy Bolter (each side


IMHO, take what SOFDC said about tacs with a pinch of salt... Keep in mind you do need scoring units for ordinary objective-based games.

Please tell us what your rough outline of a game plan is. It does seem like SOFDC said that you want to sit back and shoot, but maybe if you tell us your master plan we could give some better advice. Just a rough outline though, this isn't the tactica section

AFAIK, the Predators are a really good buy. Make sure you use them to their full capability.

I personally don't like dreads that much, but that's a different story. It all depends on how you use it, although maybe shaving those chaplain points off and giving the cc dread a DP would be more effective. In this case maybe reconsider the AC for a MM for popping armour.

I fully agree with the chaplain being a bad buy. Get an assault librarian with MoA and Quickening, or a shooty one with VoD or something like that Join him to whatever squad serves its purpose.

If you're going to use all your tacs for long range heavy support, maybe drop one of those predators and take a dev squad, and then save points on the other squads' (lack of) heavy weapons. Just a thought, I'm not sure if a predator won't actually be a better buiy in this case.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/381758/3046972.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/381758/3046972.page GMT Re:1750 point ultramarine tournament list need help IMO are a point soaker) and upgrade your Dreadnought with an Ironclad Dreadnought in Drop Pod (this is a fantastic early game surprise, and turns the tide very easily). With the Tactical Squads, instead of having a Missile Launcher and Plasma Gun for each squad, consider: 2x Lascannon Flamer, 2x Plasma Cannon/Meltagun. This is the same points and is more effective, again IMO. Good to see someone utilising Tactical Squads! Great for their points if they're in a squad of 10 - way cheaper than Devastators for the same weaponry.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/381758/3046991.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/381758/3046991.page GMT Re:1750 point ultramarine tournament list need help
IMHO, take what SOFDC said about tacs with a pinch of salt... Keep in mind you do need scoring units for ordinary objective-based games.


This is good advice about anything. However, allow me to explain:

Let's assume for a moment that there is the maximum roll for objectives (5). In my experience there will be one or two easily obtained by either side, and one or two in the midfield. If you are in a position to -score- more than 2 objectives even in a objective rich battlefield like above, you have gained pretty decisive map control...something that an apparent gunline list will have some problems achieving.

On top of this, one tactical marine on an objective scores just as well as ten....and it gets invalidated by an enemy unit in contest range just as easily. Going past the 2x10 marine template in my view is purely for redundancy until (for me) 2000+ points, where there is just so much firepower on the boards that even 20 tac marines in rhinos will get wiped out if you make a mistake. However, spending more points on sub-par units here, means less competitive units (like your speeders and terminators...) crushing your opponent.

The point? Score your two objectives that you can realistically hold with your tactical squads (Perhaps split into 4 combat squads if you are feeling lucky.) and take the rest of your points and focus it into a ball of hatred and spam. Keeping him from scoring is every bit as important as actually scoring the objectives, maybe more so. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/381758/3047066.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/381758/3047066.page GMT 1750 point ultramarine tournament list need help The tactical squads are all meched up so they can move to a position and provide a thrusting unit that has enough members (and enough of them) that the typical competitive army would have trouble wiping them out in one or two turns. They are a thrusting force designed to knock out units and hold objectives, and each squad should be able to support each other with increasingly ranged fire. For example, two squads move up and begin moving into position to cover the objective, while the other two create a base of fire to cover the objective with overlapping fields of fire. the point of running the tactical squads isn’t just to take an objective, it’s to use them as an offensive tool to help deny objectives and maintain control of my own at all costs.
While the tactical squads are the thrust to the attack, the predators and the land speeders provide the much needed denied flank or counter flank. they also provide a mobile firepower base with enough shots that they can handle most units in the game or at least cripple them enough to make them a softer target for the 70+ bolter shots from the tactical squads when they move into engagement range. with that much mobility and dakka combined, picking off units of opportunity at extreme distances should be a feasible process, and running them in packs to provide an addition level of fire support for the tactical squads also means they can provide a second front where needed, especially with the repositioning of one of the rhinos.
The dreadnaught and the (don’t laugh at me) chaplain and assault squad. 1st, I know the librarian is really a better unit than the chaplain. however, I also know that I my local gaming area, it’s a lot of las/plas spam, eldar, chaos, orks, and nids (its kind of weird, I am the only codex astartes player, and there as many xenos players as marines) my meta has trouble doing a few things that I picked up on when I was playing my last few games:
They have trouble dealing with big squads. It seemed like, especially against a can wall and fish tau (admittedly, tau aren’t that good) and necrons that people had trouble getting rid of ten marines at a time. players had no trouble killing five or six, but it seems like they really had trouble getting the other half off of the table, and I had won those games based on the fact that I still had marines there at the end of the shooting, and the larger redundant squads reinforced the front line firepower. the reason why this is important, is just playing around, I took a chaplain and assault squad as I had played them in 5th ed yet (I know they were great but it was a list to test against their tournament armies, and I KNEW I was going to lose anyways, so I figured why not, and the chaplain and assault marines are really painted ok and they look cool!) what I found out was that everyone I have played with a list similar to this had no idea how to handle an assault squad as their armies were just set up to shoot it out. they almost single handedly won the game against the tau for me, but more surprisingly, against other marines armies, and the eldar and necrons, they really paid off as a counter charge/tar pit unit, providing me time to take apart the squad they were engaged with in close combat, while the rest of my army didn’t have to worry about it and continued to shoot.

There were also several times where a well timed and flanking assault squad showed up and prevented a tactical squad from being charged by what would otherwise have at them for lunch, allowing the marines to hold their ground and focus their fire on other targets that were closing in on them.
Lastly, the dreadnaught provides the biggest punch in close combat and is used as a stop gap. He moves to support the army where a hole is being developed. The AC has a good range and the expected engagement range for this army is somewhere around 14" after everyone moves, and gets into position and so forth. even if the dreadnaught doesn’t open fire on turn one, he is still good and will make a huge impact later on in the game when his counter charge/ rending AC matters most. (Although the idea of drop podding them does seem cool, thanks for the tip). The last point I make up with this is that the dreadnaught is the bullet sponge and he will soak up fire. No one wants him floating around there and rending things to death, and people definitely don’t want him assaulting things, so he has a tendency to get shot up disproportionately to the other armored targets in the game.
Oddly enough, people seem to leave land speeders alone, and I am not certain if they just feel that they aren’t a threat or what…I am still a little confused on this one.
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