http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/93.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net 40k. thanks in advance


if it helps i would most likely be playing against vampire counts, chaos daemons, chaos, high elves and tomb kings]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3062297.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3062297.page GMT
Weapon teams are great, and there are a lot of them. The best two, IMO, are the Warp-fire Thrower and the Plague Wind Mortar. You can get both of these in the Island of Blood box set that you can usually find on Ebay for pretty cheap. I suggest picking one up, as it also includes a warlock engineer and a warlord.

The Warlock engineer is great because it can be your magic support and can take a DOOMROCKET!!! The doomrocket is AWESOME. I also suggest a single Warp Lightning Cannon for a small army.

Ok, so here's 1000 points of Skaven that you can do pretty easily off of Ebay (please note some of these numbers are approximate as they are off the top of my head):

Warlord + about 50-75 points of wargear either from the Skaven book or the main rulebook
~150
Warlock Engineer
Lvl 1 Doomrocket
95
25 Clanrats, Full Command (meaning Champion, Standard Bearer and Musician), shields, spears
145
Warp Fire Thrower
70
25 Clanrats, Full Command, shields, spears
145
Plague Wind Mortar
65
Warp Lightning Cannon
90


Ok, I lied...that's closer to 750. I suggest spending the extra points either upgrading your Warlock Engineer or adding another unit or two you like. Jezzails can be really good (when they hit stuff), and a small squad of those is only 60 points...the problem is that the new (Finecast) Jezzail models are ~50 for three of them, so Ebay is probably the best way to go if you want them. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3062418.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3062418.page GMT
Take many slaves to cover up your better units, it doesn't matter if they run as they don't cause panic in the rest of your army.

If you want to take RO's, take them in units of 4-6. That has worked best for me. And if they're 4 you should rank them up as 1x4, if 6 then 2x3.

You should include a warlock engineer or two as they can provide good magic defense/offense and they are very valuable in SoM games.

Get som warmachines to smash, splash and hack your foes apart.

And clanrat units should be 30+ in my experience at least. If they're less than 30 casualties will be pretty severe to your units.

Stormvermin should also be 30+ in a unit.

Always, ALWAYS take a BSB. No exceptions.

That's what I can come up with off the top of my head, if you want any more advice please PM me.

EDIT: Remembered one more thing. Since you want to play Skaven, remember, don't play fair. Outnumber them, outshoot them, kill them all.

(of course that should not be taken so far that your opponents wont play with you lol)

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3065065.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3065065.page GMT
- Seers are great. The Bell isn't overtly amazing, but it can do some weird stuff that will win you the game against some of the top armies.

- Get a BSB and protect him with the best magical goodies you can.

- Get a Doomrocket. Even if that's all he does--launch the Doomrocket--your Engineer is worth it. Always.

- Assassins aren't good.

- Get Clanrats spears or shields, but never both. It is mathematically inefficient. Never buy shields for your Slaves. Minimum recommended unit size varies, depending on the size of the game. At 2000 and up, I go with around 50. At 1000, I'll do 30ish.

- Weapon Teams are...okay. Expensive, super fragile, unreliable, but potentially devastating. Only get these after you've gotten your other goodies. Warpfire Throwers and Poisoned Wind Mortars are indeed the best. Ratling Guns are meh, Doomflayers always die, and Warp-grinders are the worst thing in the book.

- Get some Gutter Runners. Get them Poisoned Attacks and slings. Units of 5-7 work best.

- Rat Ogres and Censer Bearers are amazing on the offense, but won't survive the fight. Send them in to kill and to die, and always take just enough so that they can charge in, get attacked, and have enough guys left over to swing back.

- Jezzails aren't worth it. Basically ever. Globadiers are better, but still unwieldy.

- Plague Monks are decent. The Furnace is a good piece of machinery.

- The magic banners you get are, in order: the Storm Banner (if you don't rely too much on shooting), the Shroud of Dripping Death and/or the Plague Banner, and the Banner of the Underempire. Nothing else.

- Warp Lightning Cannons are the best unit in the Skaven book. Maybe one of the best in the game. Get one or two.

- Plague-Claw Catapults are okay.

- The Hell-Pit Abomination is amazing. Amazing.

- Doomwheels are sub-par. Great at monster hunting. Bad at everything else.

That's all I've got for now. Feel free to ask for more specific info.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3067354.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3067354.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3071706.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3071706.page GMT Cannons are awesome especially the warp lightning kind
Rat ogres dont do bad depends if you like the model.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3071742.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3071742.page GMT
A cannon will serve you well (mostly).

Rat Ogres hit hard and die fast. Consider that, and use them well. The special characters are generally considered to be overpriced and ineffective. I'd go without.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3072486.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3072486.page GMT
I would never take Skweel with Rat Ogres, because the FAQ said he is a champion, so he has to go in the front rank, which means he can be targeted and killed rather easily. Much easier than a RO, that is.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3075954.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3075954.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3081567.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3081567.page GMT
But yeah, 100 more points for a random ability is steep. Regeneration would be good on a huge block of Giant Rats or something, but that's about it.

Clanrats with spears will do better in combat than Clanrats with shields, since it's always better to kill your enemy faster than to survive longer. Still, most people use shields so that the Clanrats can hold down opponents for as long as possible, and kill them with other stuff.
Skaven can usually play the waiting game. Don't commit to any combats you don't have to, unless you're sure you'll win. Engage the missile troops, the soft troops, and the fast troops quickly, but against the tough/strong/awesome guys, you can probably sit back and wait. Shooting and magic will help, and then you can bog them down with Slaves or Clanrats to line up the devastating counter-charge.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3083739.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3083739.page GMT MM in the same unit, you actually have three champions...normally you only have one. Anyways, they would all then have to go in the front unless there wasn't enough room for all of them.

As far as shields vs spears, Mathammer apparently says spears are better (I understand it is because the extra attacks help your combat resolution better than the slightly better save), but the difference seems to be slight. I think it's probably close enough to come down to personal preference.

Someone else here can probably give you the exact maths if you're interested. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3086833.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3086833.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3087521.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3087521.page GMT
Shields versus spears: Shields reduce your casualties by 16%, whereas spears increase your potential wounds by 25-30%, depending on formation.
But I don't need an equation to prove this; it's pretty simple. Shields keep your guys around longer, where spears kill the enemy faster. You will never, ever win a fight simply by staying alive. You need to kill the other guy. So in order for a survival-based unit to be good, the percent of reduced casualties would have to be far greater than a unit with an increase in wound-output.
For example, if a unit could increase its potential wounds by 25%, or decrease its casualties by 30%, you'd still want to increase its killing power, since staying alive isn't going to help you win the fight on its own.
A Parry save can keep a model in the fight for longer, but he can still die later on. A dead enemy is dead. It's one model closer to the end of the combat, victory points, and the survival of your unit.

...spears are better. Granted, it's by a small margin. But they are better.
I use shields, though. My Clanrats are there to survive for as long as possible. My Rat Ogres and A-bombs are there to kill stuff.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3088823.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3088823.page GMT
3 squads of 30 clanrats with shields or spears and 2 warpfire throwers to defend against the flank. it can stand and shoot if charged and one poisoned wind mortar for the middle rank maybe

2 level 1 warlock engineers with doom rockets shoot down units that the clan rats are going to engage with.

1 warp lightning cannon shoot important stuff in the back of their army and defending my armies flank

what do you think about this list? thanks]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3111125.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3111125.page GMT
2. Weapon Teams are really, really iffy. I'd go double Warp Lightning Cannons and a small unit of Gutter Runners with poisoned slings before I get any teams. Maybe one 'Thrower to knock off Regen.

3. The Doomrocket is a magic item, so one/army. Otherwise, 25% of my army would be made up of Warlock Engineers with Doomrockets (5 at 1000pts).

4. Get a BSB.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3112035.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3112035.page GMT BSB) in a Skaven army at a bare minimum. The Warlord can be traded out for other Lords if you desire but you should consider at the Chieftain to be mandatory part of any Skaven army.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3114132.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3114132.page GMT BSB, your magic, and your Doomrocket all set to go while also having a semi-survivable general.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3124289.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3124289.page GMT BSB by placing them in range of most units. the plague priest (general) will try to stay close to the slaves so they can re-roll failed leadership to stay in combat longer and drop more templates. the warp lightning cannon will try to pick off their army's bigger stuff and hopefully ill have dice to get off warp lightning or pestilent breath in the magic phase.

Warlock engineer substitute warp lightning
Level 1 wizard
Doomrocket
95 points

Plague priest (GENERAL) substitute for pestilent breath
Plague censer
116 points

CORE
50 skavenslaves 10 x 5 formation
100 points

27 clanrats spears 7x4 formation
Musician
Poisoned wind mortar
Chieftain; battle standard, tail weapon
268.5 points

Plague claw catapult
100 points

Warp lightning cannon
90 points

27 plague monks (priest is goes in this unit) 7 x 4 formation
Musician
Standard bearer
Plague banner
234 points

what do you think?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3132531.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3132531.page GMT
- your general and BSB need protection. A 5+ Ward on each, at the least.

- I'd drop the wizard level on your Engineer and get a second one on your Priest, for the following reasons: it's cheaper, Plague spells compliment each other better than Plague and Ruin. Pestilent Breath isn't actually good. Plague, Wither, and Bless with Filth, however, are.

- Get those Slaves a musician. Drop a Slave, if you must. It's worth it. Always.

- Your close combat involves two S3 units, a BSB with S4 and 3, and a wizard who's S6 for a turn. Not too much in the way of power. Still, it could, in theory, work.

- Drop the Poisoned Wind Mortar or the Plague Claw Catapult for another Warp Lightning Cannon. The Cannon's got a small template, a line template, ignores armour, does d6 wounds, and is S2-10. It's...better. Always.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3135258.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3135258.page GMT
Warlock engineer
Doomrocket
45 points

Plague priest (GENERAL) level 2 i think is +35? i
foul pendant (5+ ward save)
Plague censer
146 points

CORE
50 skavenslaves w/ musician 10 x 5 formation
102 points

27 clanrats spears 7x4 formation
Musician
Poisoned wind mortar
Chieftain; battle standard, tail weapon
foul pendant (5+ ward save)
298.5 points

Warp lightning cannon
90 points

Warp lightning cannon
90 points

27 plague monks (priest is goes in this unit) 7 x 4 formation
Musician
Standard bearer
Plague banner
234 points

okay so this fixes your suggestions. is 2 warp lightning cannons overkill for a 1000 point game? ive only played 40k so idk and last weak half of a 6 player game of storm of magic which was fun but we started late so it ended early. plague monks are s3 yeah but if i can put them up against the enemy's hard hitting unit that is already down a few from fire with the reroll hits and wound it should be nice. if enough are alive before combat ill reform them to a horde for the extra rank. Heres my biggest thing for having those template there. i wasnt sure that i could fire into slaves with the warp lightning cannon and have it hitting the opponent. do i have to hit what i actually hit with templates or cannons or do i just randomize like the rules? idk about line of sigh but i know the warp lightning is tall so it can look down. where should i aim for the first hit mark of the lightning cannon.for the characters i think 5+ ward save is good for a 1000 point match since 60 points takes up a lot. i think i should at least keep the poisoned wind mortar but its expensive... feedback please it is much appreciated, merci beaucoup

p.s. i guess i only had pestilent breath cause i read it works in close combat to take out the opponent hopefully even faster for that unit. but wither looks really nice i agree ill read the other one you suggested. ill be over 40ish points so i guess i will loose the mortar and just add more clan rats or slaves]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3135369.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3135369.page GMT
I'd drop the Tail Weapon for a halberd and a Charmed Shield, so he'll have 3 S5 attacks instead of 3 S4 and 1 S3, and he can ignore the first wound on a 2+.

Plague Monks will falter against well-armoured opponents and tough ones. As your single greatest close-combat asset, they may well have to tangle with stuff they're not equipped to deal with. Still, with enough shooting/magic...

Two cannons is brutal at 1000pts. Not overkill, though. They're fragile and unreliable, so two helps. Still, not a friendly list by any means.

Slaves don't randomize hits any more, since Warpfire Throwers were splatting thirty Slaves to hit a Hydra 15 times. I'm not sure I understand your question about the Cannons. The template you put down after the shot bounces hits what it hits. Initially aim 12" away from the center of your target. Average bounce/overshoot is 12", so the template will hit a mess o' dudes.

Pestilent Breath does d6 S2 hits in combat. That's terrible. The 5+ Ward is probably enough.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3140078.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3140078.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3140159.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/382553/3140159.page GMT