Ashenshugar wrote:I think vect is a handicap to that army. If your opponent reserves all or you don't go first, you will have a very tough time winning. Dropping him for an additional 2 offensive units would strengthen the list considerably. He is also an easy target for anyone who takes out the wyche raider and drops a pie plate on them.

mercer wrote:Have you considered Beastmasters as a mop up unit? You've got tons of fire power but nothing to capitialise for when you blow troops out the transports. Beastmasters would do wonders for this.

As for not going first as long as you have terrain and everything has cover saves you should take a blow ok. Sometimes it maybe better to go second so you can do a refused flank (deploy your forces all on one flank) and attack a single part of the opponents forces, or going second allows the opponent to possibly come closer and into range of yuor guns. Lets face it if you go first you can only turbo boost for cover saves anyway as nothing will be in range except the dark lances.

Deadshane1 wrote:It's absolutely a solid list...it's almost identical to the netlist that Dash started up...obviously it's doing well.

I agree with not needing Vect. He's not needed in this sort of list. If you want a heavy hitting archon for CC use a generic.

A huge weakness I've seen on these sort of lists however is how weak they are against any army with significant volume of 4 foot range firepower. Your army is designed to dance at the 3-4 foot range and eliminate things w/o getting melta'd or shot at. Armies that feature lots of LONG range firepower mechanised...anyone with mass autocannons/lascannons/ or lots of mech mounted ranged firepower will give you headaches.

Spamming rifleman dreads (especially grey knight ones) on the table edge is the best way to say "You cannot win this game." to this sort of army.

mercer wrote:Doesn't Dash run double Wytches and the Baron? I wouldn't say Dash invented Venom spam...

Skarboy wrote:Solid list. I like Vect as a CC beast, but at 240 points, he's pricey, even at 2K. Also, his ability to seize really needs to be a focus of any list he's in, otherwise, you're paying a lot for a souped up Archon. Your list is not really built to seize, at least not as well as an infantry-heavy dark lance list that can risk being exposed during deployment to gamble on the seize. Do you really want to have your Ravagers and Venoms sitting out there against IG or SW missile spam hoping for a 4+ if the opponent isn't scared by Vect?

If you cut him, you would have 240 points. Spend 100 on 2 haemonculi and 70 each on upgrading two warrior squads to wyches in raiders. Should be about there on points. That should give you three assault units with haywires, plus a large mobile fire base. 6 venoms is still plenty.

Deadshane1 is right about the weaknesses of the list versus, in particular, mechanized shooty marines (lists with loads of riflemen, typhoon speeders, etc.). Having more vehicular assault units (wyches) can help offset this as they can tie up riflemen quite well and are death to chimera/razorback parking lots.

Deadshane1 wrote:

mercer wrote:Doesn't Dash run double Wytches and the Baron? I wouldn't say Dash invented Venom spam...

One wych, beast unit and the baron....other than that it's pretty identical. Blasters blasters blasters venoms venoms venoms and some other stuff.

I didnt say that either...but he's definatly helped put them on the map. Up until just recently people have been complaining about how DE fall short against IG and generally in tournament. Claiming to "invent" venom spam is like claiming to "invent" using melta to bust tanks....it's an obvious route to take within the codex. While he didnt invent it, he's definatly a spokesman for this sort of army.