Latest posts for the thread "Vannila Dark Angels, can it be done?"

Vannila Dark Angels, can it be done?

Commander Usiel — GMT

The idea for my army is a very themed shooty army with traits and Dark Angel special rules. It is painted as Dark Angels so I'm not stealing Dark Angel rules.

I want to use:
'Trust your Battle-Brothers'
'Heed the Wisdom of the Ancients'

opposed with:
'Eye to Eye'
'We Stand Alone'

Then write the list from Vanilla (ultramarines) codex and add special rules for all IC and Terminator Hounors sgt's. Paying the appropreate points.

I think it's 5pts to stubborn a TH Sgt and 10pts for IC?

I need to know more exact cost for DA Special rules and if this kind of vanilla + army special rules thing can be done (or if it's been done), I figure an army built this way would never be allowed in a tounament but I'm not worried about that.

Any help or critisism would be appreciated.

Usiel - playing outside the box buy the rules

RE:Vannila Dark Angels, can it be done?

Mannahnin — GMT

By the rules, of course not. The SM codex is very clear that if your chapter has its own special rules, you use those instead of the trait system.

If you want to make up your own rules with friends, feel free, but they may come up with something crazier in return (I'd like to use Bloodletters in my Slaanesh army!) that you wouldn't be too happy with.

IMO you should just use the DA rules OR the trait system. Either one can easily make for a powerful army. My DA have a very nice win percentage, a top ten GT finish, and several tourney wins.

RE: Vannila Dark Angels, can it be done?

Commander Usiel — GMT

I envisioned a static firing line, so I wanted true grit to protect my tac squads from assault. Dark Angels always make me think of shooting configured Dreads so I wanted lots of them. I also wanted to incorporate the forge world Mortis class and the plasma cannon Dread. But there goes my elites using DA rules and I want Deathwing.

I suppose if I build using the space marine codex I could use a commander which would give my army a Ld of 10, which is almost like stubborn. Plus the armies fighting style is static so it's like intractable.

How would you compose a Dread heavy army using Dark Angel rules though?

RE: Vannila Dark Angels, can it be done?

KiMonarrez — GMT

Um... you're mistaken.

The Mortis dread is a 0-1 Dark Angel (or successor) elite choice. The plasma cannon dread is also an elite choice (and Dark Angels are the only loyalist chapter that can still use them), but there's no restriction on them. That leaves 1 elite slot open for a deathwing squad.

And the angels can do a static firing line as well as any marine chapter.

No need to try to use traits (which you can't, if you want to use DA rules). Just use our blessed codex.

RE: Vannila Dark Angels, can it be done?

KiMonarrez — GMT

After thinking on it a little bit... you can also fill that 3rd elite slot with another plasma dread... and still take deathwing as part of a deathwing command squad for a terminator leader of some sort.

RE:Vannila Dark Angels, can it be done?

Death_Wing — GMT

Posted By Mannahnin on 02/26/2006 10:05 AM

By the rules, of course not. The SM codex is very clear that if your chapter has its own special rules, you use those instead of the trait system.

Were is it very clear? The ONLY reference I have found that uses "must" and "trait" is on pg. 45 under Chapters of Legend. Where it states:
"if you wish to play an army of one of these Chapters [Imperial Fist, Raven Guard, Salamanders, White Scars, Crimson Fists, Iron Hands, Blood Ravens] using the traits rules, then these are the traits you must use."

No reference to Chapters with their own codex's Also besides the table on pg. 8 there are no other references to any of the chapters that have a codex (Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Black Templars), so based on this and conclusions that other people come up with on this forum those chapters don't have any rules in the Space Marine Codex so you can come up with your own traits for them. (they all count as "codex" or "regular" marines).

Also I have experimented with the trait rules on my marines and nobody has said anything to me about it at my local gaming store.

RE: Vannila Dark Angels, can it be done?

KiMonarrez — GMT

40k uses a permissive ruleset. That means, if it says you can... you can. If it says you can't, you can't. If it doesn't say you can't, you still can't.

I see nowhere it stating that DA CAN use those rules. Same thing with all the other subcodex. Oddly enough, same thing with using the Ultramarines.

RE: Vannila Dark Angels, can it be done?

Death_Wing — GMT

But it also states that you don't need to use those traits for the listed chapters if you don't want to. So you could do the same with subcodex chapters. And besides, who will stop you from using a colour scheme that is the same as Dark Angels, and call tem Dark Angels. But you don't use the Dark Angel codex.

RE: Vannila Dark Angels, can it be done?

Commander Usiel — GMT

Well I had already begun tearing my list to pices, and used HQ Terminator Squads. Plus I didn't mention the other Ven Dread in the list which filled all three slots when adding the Plasma dread and the Mortis.

The problem I'm having now is, it reads something along the lines of: One Grand Master or Master may be up graded to Master of the Deathwing. They may take a Deathwing Terminator squad as a command squad. So I used my Grand Master as the Master of the Deathwing and gave my second HQ a Dark Angels Hero ( Master) terminator armour, so that his command squad can wear Terminator armour as well, or can only the Master of the Deathwing use a Terminator Command Squad?

Usiel - Got Tactical Dreadnought Armour?

RE: Vannila Dark Angels, can it be done?

Death_Wing — GMT

Only the Master of the Deathwing can have a terminator command squad, all other characters (besided master of the Ravenwing) can only have a tactiacal squad for a command squad. So the master can have terminator armor, but his squad will have power armor.

RE: Vannila Dark Angels, can it be done?

Commander Usiel — GMT

Well that throws my list out the window

Any suggestions... anyone? please?

Usiel - Got nothin

RE: Vannila Dark Angels, can it be done?

KiMonarrez — GMT

Playing fast and loose with those rules there Death_Wing. Of course you can have more characters in terminator armor leading terminator squads. Look at the Dark Angels FAQ 4.1 on GW's site, and you'll see that the "command squad" entry in the Dark Angels codex has been completely replaced. Now you use the "Terminator Command Squad" entry in the space marine codex.

I see nothing in the rules that prevents you from having 2 terminator command squads if you want to.

Might be SLIGHTLY against the fluff... but not illegal.

RE: Vannila Dark Angels, can it be done?

citadel97501 — GMT

For your elites throw in some grey knight terminators, their about even with the death wing but their fearless instead of stubborn and don't get the same weapons. . . They get strength 6, AP 4, assault 3 weapons that ignore invulnerable saves, or they can get heavy flamers that ignore invulnerable saves. . .

They are also incredibly nasty in hand to hand, strength 6 power weapons with WS 5, if a psychic power affects them they get the same affect as psychic hood but each one gets to use it, so if you hit a squad with Storm of the Emperor's Wrath don't expect it to go off. . .

They also get some other great rules like True Grit with their Storm Bolters, roll for nightfighting whenever you shoot them without any wargear affects (no acute senses), they can have smaller units of terminators, and they get a nice psychic power to use on initiative 1, basically drops a Large Blast Template on whatever their assaulting. . .

And for all those great rules they only cost like 50 points per terminator. . . they might have some other stuff but I don't remember it all right now. . .

look for them in the Demon Hunter Codex

RE:Vannila Dark Angels, can it be done?

Subtext — GMT

Posted By citadel97501 on 03/03/2006 3:27 AM
For your elites throw in some grey knight terminators, their about even with the death wing but their fearless instead of stubborn and don't get the same weapons. . . They get strength 6, AP 4, assault 3 weapons that ignore invulnerable saves, or they can get heavy flamers that ignore invulnerable saves. . .

They are also incredibly nasty in hand to hand, strength 6 power weapons with WS 5, if a psychic power affects them they get the same affect as psychic hood but each one gets to use it, so if you hit a squad with Storm of the Emperor's Wrath don't expect it to go off. . .

They also get some other great rules like True Grit with their Storm Bolters, roll for nightfighting whenever you shoot them without any wargear affects (no acute senses), they can have smaller units of terminators, and they get a nice psychic power to use on initiative 1, basically drops a Large Blast Template on whatever their assaulting. . .

And for all those great rules they only cost like 50 points per terminator. . . they might have some other stuff but I don't remember it all right now. . .

look for them in the Demon Hunter Codex

Ohh come on, Dark Angels and Inquisition totally drags the fluff through the dirt.

RE:Vannila Dark Angels, can it be done?

blue loki — GMT

Posted By Subtext on 03/03/2006 8:23 AM

Ohh come on, Dark Angels and Inquisition totally drags the fluff through the dirt.

Not to mention that the FAQ states that DA can take exactly zero (0) allies.

RE: Vannila Dark Angels, can it be done?

KiMonarrez — GMT

To be honest blue loki, I don't know what to make of that FAQ. That FAQ was created and then updated between when the =][= books were released. So, what takes precidence? The DA codex update didn't allow it, then the Daemonhunter codex did, then the FAQ disallowed it, then the Witchhunter codex did.

I really don't know that using grey knights really IS illegal, since the RAW explicitly contradicts itself.

That being said, having =][= allies is EXTREMELY unfluffy.

RE: Vannila Dark Angels, can it be done?

Commander Usiel — GMT

Exactly,
I am making a themed army and the last faction the Dark Angels want breathing down their neck is the Ordo Malleus.

I was given the FAQ rules by a Red-Shirt and it was only half a page (the rest was some crappy picture) that were mods to DA special rules like 'stubborn'. I didn't get anything about a HQ change. But I also later learned that the same Red-Shirt didn't know of the Second Edition DA ver 3.5 codex. Go figure.

So cheers KiMonarrez

Usiel - Got Deathwing?, hell yeah!

BTW could someone make a link to the 4.0 FAQ so I can download it. Tah