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				<title>My Final Ard Boyz List, SW rip it apart please.</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <b><span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(56);'>HQ</span></b><br /> Njal<br /> Rune Priest: Living Lightning, Tempests Wrath<br /> <b>Troops</b><br /> 3x 7GH: <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(563);'>MG</span>, <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(423);'>MotW</span>, Banner, Rhino<br /> 1x 5GH: <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(563);'>MG</span> Razorback <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(478);'>TLAC</span><br /> 1x 5GH: Flamer Razorback <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(478);'>TLAC</span><br /> <b>Elites</b><br /> Wolf Guard: 4x Combimelta/Powerfist 1x <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(332);'>TDA</span> w/ <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(417);'>CML</span><br /> <b>Heavy Support</b><br /> 6 Long Fangs: 5 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(328);'>ML</span> Las/<span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(166);'>Plas</span> Razorback<br /> 2x6 Long Fangs: 2 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(80);'>LC</span> 3 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(328);'>ML</span> Las/<span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(166);'>Plas</span> Razorbacks<br /> <b>Fast</b><br /> Land Speeder <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(330);'>MM</span>/TML<br /> Land Speeder <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(330);'>MM</span>/TML<br /> 2x Land Speeders <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(330);'>MM</span>/TML<br /> <br /> 68 Models 2500 points on the nose.<br /> 21 Missiles/7 Las Cannons a turn, 5 Scoring Units, and the best Anti-Psyker tech in the game (Njal).  So what are the weaknesses, how would the other Ard Boyz net lists beat it?  <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(19);'>CC</span> welcome.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Fri, 12 Aug 2011 03:56:14]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ OverwatchCNC]]></author>
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				<title>My Final Ard Boyz List, SW rip it apart please.</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ horde/nids would give you some trouble orkz too, possibly paladin heavy grey knights]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Fri, 12 Aug 2011 04:10:52]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Tomb King]]></author>
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				<title>My Final Ard Boyz List, SW rip it apart please.</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ I think 21 Frag missiles a turn will handle the hordes just fine.  Paladin Heavy <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(305);'>GK</span> are a definite issue with this list, then again it is for any list right now except Purifier spam <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(305);'>GK</span> and Plasma Vet heavy <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(69);'>IG</span>.  <br /> <br /> Any suggestions on how I could improve the list to counter Paladin <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(305);'>GK</span>?]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Fri, 12 Aug 2011 06:11:39]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ OverwatchCNC]]></author>
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				<title>Re:My Final Ard Boyz List, SW rip it apart please.</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ I would use 2 more rune priests rather than Njal and you the extra 75 pts to equip them.<br /> Njal can only use one shooting attack and most of <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(124);'>sw</span> physic powers are shooting, 5/7 are shooting.<br /> The only thing i can see to be a bonus for Njal will only be useful if you rush up into your opponents with allot of 18" and a 12" which leaves him vulnerable to counter attack.<br /> <a href="http://space-wolves-grey.blogspot.com/search/label/Njal%20Stormcaller" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://space-wolves-grey.blogspot.com/search/label/Njal%20Stormcaller</a> for more info<br /> edit: grammer, and link]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Fri, 12 Aug 2011 08:26:52]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Nmh]]></author>
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				<title>Re:My Final Ard Boyz List, SW rip it apart please.</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Overall, I think your list is pretty solid all around; however, there are some fine tuning issues that need to be addressed.<br /> <br /> 1) The <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(417);'>CML</span> Terminator is quite a bit too costly for my taste. Add in the 4th Combi-melta/power fist Wolf Guard and you're at 107 points that could be used elsewhere.<br /> <br /> 2) The Melta on the razor hunters seems unnecessary really and should probably be exchanged for a flamer.<br /> <br /> 3) 4 Lascannons for your Long Fangs is a bit much. Consider 2 plasma cannons instead of the last 2mission lascannons as they are a godsend against Draigo armies.<br /> <br /> 4) 21 missiles is fancy and all but I think you could stand to lose 4 and replace the two single typhoons with <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(330);'>mm</span>/<span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(336);'>hf</span> speeders.<br /> <br /> At this point you've saved a lot of points, got a little better luck with Terminator armies and you can afford the 6th troop that you know you want.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Fri, 12 Aug 2011 13:07:47]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Unholy_Martyr]]></author>
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				<title>Re:My Final Ard Boyz List, SW rip it apart please.</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ The real questions are more about how you will play. This is more important than your list. Anyone can write a list, its another question about how it will play! <br /> <br /> Where will you stick your traitor?   How will that squad help to keep him alive?<br /> <br /> How do you plan on grabbing objectives?  Will you be just moving your grey hunters forward?   Who will sit on your back objective on mission 2?<br /> <br /> What are your plans to prevent your speeders from getting quickly killed on the missions where it gives an extra battle point? <br /> <br /> What is the role of the wofl guard?   How can they be used to be a hammer? <br /> <br /> How do you plan on taking down heavy armor armies like mech'dar?<br /> <br /> What are your overall strategy for the missions?   <br /> <br /> What are your plans on how to deal with the armies out there? Go through each of the armies and make a basic plan on how to taclke them. <br /> <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(69);'>IG</span>, <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(124);'>SW</span>, C:<span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(119);'>SM</span>, <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(22);'>CSM</span>, Orks, 'Nids, <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(305);'>GK</span>, etc....]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Fri, 12 Aug 2011 14:02:10]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ labmouse42]]></author>
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				<title>Re:My Final Ard Boyz List, SW rip it apart please.</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Unholy_Martyr wrote:</cite>Overall, I think your list is pretty solid all around; however, there are some fine tuning issues that need to be addressed.<br /> <br /> 1) The <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(417);'>CML</span> Terminator is quite a bit too costly for my taste. Add in the 4th Combi-melta/power fist Wolf Guard and you're at 107 points that could be used elsewhere.<br /> <font color='red'> The <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(417);'>CML</span> Terminator takes the place of the 5th <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(105);'>PF</span> Combimelta <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(225);'>WG</span>.  I don't have a 5th <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(225);'>WG</span> for the flamer squad because the traitor will go in this <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(112);'>RB</span> and hide.</font><br /> 2) The Melta on the razor hunters seems unnecessary really and should probably be exchanged for a flamer.<br /> <font color='red'>Noted, I will probably change that. </font><br /> 3) 4 Lascannons for your Long Fangs is a bit much. Consider 2 plasma cannons instead of the last 2mission lascannons as they are a godsend against Draigo armies.<br /> <font color='red'> <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(331);'>PC</span> have never performed well for me.  My opponents are smart and always keep their guys 2 inches apart when players field <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(331);'>PC</span>.  I also disagree that a <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(331);'>PC</span> is better than a <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(80);'>LC</span> against Palagins.  The <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(80);'>LC</span> kills a Paladin, <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(331);'>PC</span> only cause a single wound.</font><br /> 4) 21 missiles is fancy and all but I think you could stand to lose 4 and replace the two single typhoons with <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(330);'>mm</span>/<span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(336);'>hf</span> speeders.<br /> <font color='red'> I am not so sure about this either, the <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(336);'>HF</span> isn't any better than the TML, I save points but lose effectiveness.</font><br /> At this point you've saved a lot of points, got a little better luck with Terminator armies and you can afford the 6th troop that you know you want.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> <blockquote><div><cite>labmouse42 wrote:</cite>The real questions are more about how you will play. This is more important than your list. Anyone can write a list, its another question about how it will play! <br /> <br /> Where will you stick your traitor?   How will that squad help to keep him alive?<br /> <font color='red'>The traitor goes with the squad that has no <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(225);'>WG</span> and will hide. Our <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(38);'>FLGS</span> has plenty of tall terrain. </font><br /> How do you plan on grabbing objectives?  Will you be just moving your grey hunters forward?   Who will sit on your back objective on mission 2?<br /> <font color='red'><span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(390);'>GH</span> will move forward starting turn 2 or 3 usually. One of the small <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(390);'>GH</span> squads in <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(112);'>RB</span> camps my objective. </font><br /> What are your plans to prevent your speeders from getting quickly killed on the missions where it gives an extra battle point? <br /> <font color='red'>Again our <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(38);'>FLGS</span> has lots of <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(85);'>LoS</span> blocking terrain. </font><br /> What is the role of the wofl guard?   How can they be used to be a hammer? <br /> <font color='red'>The <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(225);'>WG</span> get shared out amongst the <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(390);'>GH</span> squads and the <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(417);'>CML</span> <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(225);'>WG</span> goes with a <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(450);'>LF</span> squad.  There is no hammer unit in this lilst, <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(305);'>GK</span> brought about the end of non <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(305);'>GK</span> hammer units. </font><br /> How do you plan on taking down heavy armor armies like mech'dar?<br /> <font color='red'>Mechdar can be handled by 21 missiles, 7 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(80);'>LC</span>, and 14 melta shots a turn.  I am not worried about Mechdar, Mech <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(69);'>IG</span> and Mech <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(305);'>GK</span> do concern me. </font><br /> What are your overall strategy for the missions?   <br /> <font color='red'>Destroy all my opponents transports turns 1 and 2, whittle down the infantry as they walk across the board then objective grab turns 3+ </font><br /> What are your plans on how to deal with the armies out there? Go through each of the armies and make a basic plan on how to taclke them. <br /> <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(69);'>IG</span>, <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(124);'>SW</span>, C:<span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(119);'>SM</span>, <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(22);'>CSM</span>, Orks, 'Nids, <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(305);'>GK</span>, etc....<br /> <font color='red'>Excellent advice about sitting down and planning for the most common Ard Boyz lists.  I will definitely do this, thanks. </font></div></blockquote><br /> ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Fri, 12 Aug 2011 18:15:44]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ OverwatchCNC]]></author>
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				<title>Re:My Final Ard Boyz List, SW rip it apart please.</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Here's the list I was going to bring if I played <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(124);'>SW</span>...<br /> <br /> 3x Rune Priest each w/ <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(425);'>LL</span> various power and wargear to make them legal each one goes into Long Fangs<br /> <br /> 3x 3-man Wolf Guard + Razorback w/ LasC/<span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(126);'>TL</span> <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(329);'>PG</span> (one each in the Long Fangs and the Grey Hunters)<br /> <br /> 6x <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(390);'>GH</span> w/ Flamer + Razorback w/ LasC/<span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(126);'>TL</span> <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(329);'>PG</span> <br /> <br /> 3x Landspeeder w/ Hvy Flamer and <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(330);'>MM</span><br /> <br /> 3x 6-man Long Fangs (5 Missile Launchers) + Razorback w/ LasC/ <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(126);'>TL</span> <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(329);'>PG</span><br /> <br /> Lot of <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(316);'>KP</span>, but it was a beast to fight.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Fri, 12 Aug 2011 18:33:29]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Dark_Angels_Sav]]></author>
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				<title>My Final Ard Boyz List, SW rip it apart please.</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Things to consider on those Paladins:<br /> <br /> 1) If you're facing a decent sized group, Draigo is probably there and he'll enjoy shrugging off the Lascannons coming in. Plasma Cannons may not instakill but if the squad is big enough, it will deviate onto 3-4 even with them spread out due to their larger bases.<br /> <br /> 2) Shrouding and the fact that there's going to be a good amount of terrain will make those Lascannon shots even more frustrating...quantity over quality in this regard.<br /> <br /> This has just been my experience.<br /> <br /> Still think you should find a better place for the points over that Terminator...]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Fri, 12 Aug 2011 18:43:54]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Unholy_Martyr]]></author>
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				<title>My Final Ard Boyz List, SW rip it apart please.</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Ok.<br /> Drop <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(417);'>CML</span> Termie.<br /> Drop the 2 speeders in squadron<br /> Drop <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(563);'>MG</span> on <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(112);'>RB</span> <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(390);'>GH</span><br /> Drop 2 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(80);'>LC</span> on one <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(450);'>LF</span> Squad<br /> <br /> Add 2x Dreads with <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(331);'>PC</span>/<span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(478);'>TLAC</span><br /> Add 2 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(331);'>PC</span> to <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(450);'>LF</span> Squad<br /> Add plasma gun to the two small <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(390);'>GH</span> squads<br /> <br /> I lose 6 Missiles 1 Melta Shot and 2 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(80);'>LC</span> shots.<br /> I add 4 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(331);'>PC</span> shots, 2-4PG shots, 4 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(478);'>TLAC</span> shots<br /> <br /> Worth it?<br /> <br /> <br /> <span style="font-size: 9px; line-height: normal;">Automatically Appended Next Post:</span><br /> <br /> Njal<br /> Rune Priest: Living Lightning, Tempests Wrath<br /> <b>Troops</b><br /> 3x 7GH: <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(563);'>MG</span>, <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(423);'>MotW</span>, Banner, Rhino<br /> 2x 5GH: <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(329);'>PG</span> Razorback <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(478);'>TLAC</span><br /> <b>Elites</b><br /> Wolf Guard: 4x Combimelta<br /> 2x Dreads <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(331);'>PC</span>/<span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(478);'>TLAC</span><br /> <b>Heavy Support</b><br /> 6 Long Fangs: 5 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(328);'>ML</span> Las/<span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(166);'>Plas</span> Razorback<br /> 1x 6 Long Fangs: 2 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(80);'>LC</span> 3 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(328);'>ML</span> Las/<span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(166);'>Plas</span> Razorbacks<br /> 1x 6 Long Fangs: 2 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(331);'>PC</span> 3 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(328);'>ML</span> Las/<span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(166);'>Plas</span> Razorbacks<br /> <b>Fast</b><br /> Land Speeder <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(330);'>MM</span>/TML<br /> Land Speeder <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(330);'>MM</span>/TML<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> 15 Missiles/5 Las Cannons/4 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(331);'>PC</span>/4 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(478);'>TLAC</span> shots a turn, 5 Scoring Units, and the best Anti-Psyker tech in the game (Njal).]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Fri, 12 Aug 2011 19:40:49]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ OverwatchCNC]]></author>
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				<title>My Final Ard Boyz List, SW rip it apart please.</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(635);'>OW</span>, abandoning the 4 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(56);'>HQs</span> (<span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(649);'>RPs</span>) we were discussing? ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Sat, 13 Aug 2011 04:15:49]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Brothererekose]]></author>
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				<title>My Final Ard Boyz List, SW rip it apart please.</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Brothererekose wrote:</cite><span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(635);'>OW</span>, abandoning the 4 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(56);'>HQs</span> (<span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(649);'>RPs</span>) we were discussing? </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> 4 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(649);'>RPs</span> were great until <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(305);'>GK</span> came out.  With Aegis all over the place and SR and Chimera being armor 12 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(425);'>LL</span> has lost much of its luster.  Njal is worth 2 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(293);'>RP</span> all on his own.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Sat, 13 Aug 2011 06:58:44]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ OverwatchCNC]]></author>
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				<title>My Final Ard Boyz List, SW rip it apart please.</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ just my opinion but have you thought of dropping 1 or 2 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(450);'>LF</span> packs for vindicators?<br /> <br /> yes it is only one shot a turn but a S10 pie plate is going to be havoc for Paladins... and any horde that might show up... even agains AV10 a indirect hit can with a bit of luck wreck a vehicle and glance AV11...  and they are durable!! <br /> <br /> also, I would either go <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(331);'>PC</span>/<span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(571);'>DCCW</span> &<span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(336);'>HF</span> or 2 x <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(478);'>TLAC</span> on the dreads... they should have a defined role... i.e. anti infantry (<span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(331);'>PC</span>/<span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(571);'>DCCW</span> & <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(336);'>HF</span>) or anti transport (<span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(587);'>Rifledread</span>)<br /> <br /> on your <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(225);'>WG</span>... I would put 3 x combi melta & <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(105);'>PF</span> (for your rhino squads) and drop the 4th... or add a 5th...<br /> <br /> also speeders for me don't belong in this list I think there are better suicide units... maybe Scouts or even a small <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(504);'>TWC</span> micro hammer unit? but it is as was said... how do you play and what units best suit YOUR game plan...<br /> ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Sat, 13 Aug 2011 10:20:49]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Varl Sigmund]]></author>
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				<title>My Final Ard Boyz List, SW rip it apart please.</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Well I took a list very similar to the second one I posted.  Massacre and Minor the first two rounds, got seeded for the top table final round and got a draw, the other top table also ended in a draw (hate Victory Points).  I ended up 3rd which is all good since that gets me into Regionals in Sept.  Look for a full break down on the blog in my sig tomorrow night, Sunday, if you are interested.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Sun, 14 Aug 2011 06:13:26]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ OverwatchCNC]]></author>
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