Latest posts for the thread "Zeitgeist-Moving Forward"

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Deadshane1 — GMT

Anyone seen this? I found it really interesting....basically reminds me of why I dont bother voting. I also hope for something serious to happen globally in my lifetime...not because I'm a masochist or just enjoy the idea of turmoil...but b/c I'd rather see some sort of actual "progress" that we don't have in our culture or society right now. Change acutally requires something horrible to occur before people react.

Anyway...I just thought that this movie would be a great subject for discussion.

Please though...if you havent watched it, you don't have an opinion worth listening to. Watch it b4 you start bashing.

EDIT:Actually...I just found an interesting summary of "the Zeitgeist movement" so if you're insistant on not spending 2 and a half hours......

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

ph34r — GMT

Summary of the "summary" for those who don't even want to waste 10 minutes

1. 00:00-2:30, vague concepts and saying bad things are bad
2. ~2:30-3:30, abolish all countries this is a good idea I swear
3. ~3:30-4:00, my standard of "civilized" is higher than yours
4. ~4:00-5:00, science! bombs get stronger! the system is broken!
5. ~5:00-6:00, sustainability is good, consumerism is bad (duh), the economy is a conspiracy, the free market is evil
6. ~6:00-6:30, the system is bad and impossible to make good, we should change everything
7. ~6:30-7:00, resources are important (duh), some resources are limited (duh)
8. ~7:00-7:30, we have to survey the planet and determine how much of everything there is (????), determine what the "carrying capacity of the earth" is (???????????????)
9. ~7:30-8:30, survey the planet and objectively assess what places have what resources (????)
10. ~8:30-9:00, design a new society based on the "survey" you have done on the planet and determine how many hospitals you need (????), base everything on statistics (?????????)
11. ~9:00-9:30, technology! another picture of a future city! technology! depth of field!
12: ~9:30-10:15, weigh all parameters and you will have a perfect society!

That was the most embarrassing garbage I have ever watched. As an engineer I am saddened that some people think that this is an actual, practical, effective, or even good "in theory" idea. The people who produced this video display a disappointing knowledge of science, technology, and how technological and societal advancements work.

Re:Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Mr. Self Destruct — GMT

Cool, we get ultra-globalized eugenics-lite completely based on science and natural resources, that tries to defeat a system based on autonomy of resources by making us completely reliant on technology, and put the entire faith and responsiblity of humanity into a conceptual 'artificial intelligence' that is a single entity that controls everything.

Please explain to me what the feth you have to smoke to make this make sense and where I can get some of it.

Re:Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

rubiksnoob — GMT

This is. . . . worse than t-rexes eating coconuts.

Re:Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Blacksails — GMT

I couldn't even get through the first two minutes of the summary. The first two minutes hurt my brain with the vague comments about...things and stuff, and established facts we already know. Of course the world is a closed system, I think we figured that out when we established the world was round.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Monster Rain — GMT

This guy's grandmother seems like a really sore loser. "You beat me at monopoly. Too bad you're going to die someday, kid!" Goodness, what a vindictive old hag.

I watched the first 15 minutes so far, I have to take a break. Even the summary is friggin' ponderous.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

dogma — GMT

Deadshane1 wrote:...but b/c I'd rather see some sort of actual "progress" that we don't have in our culture or society right now.

What is progress?

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Monster Rain wrote:This guy's grandmother seems like a really sore loser. "You beat me at monopoly. Too bad you're going to die someday, kid!" Goodness, what a vindictive old hag.

I watched the first 15 minutes so far, I have to take a break. Even the summary is friggin' ponderous.

Honestly, I had to stop because my stomach cramped due to laughter.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Chowderhead — GMT

Screw this, this is the next generation's problem.

Wait, I'm the next generation. feth.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

ph34r — GMT

dogma wrote:
Deadshane1 wrote:...but b/c I'd rather see some sort of actual "progress" that we don't have in our culture or society right now.

What is progress?

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Monster Rain wrote:This guy's grandmother seems like a really sore loser. "You beat me at monopoly. Too bad you're going to die someday, kid!" Goodness, what a vindictive old hag.

I watched the first 15 minutes so far, I have to take a break. Even the summary is friggin' ponderous.

Honestly, I had to stop because my stomach cramped due to laughter.

Apparently, Deadshane, being an authority on such matters, deems all the advances in science, technology, cultural freedom and equality, standard of living, and any related matters "not progress".

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Chowderhead — GMT

Also, I'm glad I'm not the only one laughing my ass off.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

ph34r — GMT

Chowderhead wrote:Screw this, this is the next generation's problem.

Wait, I'm the next generation. feth.

Become a scientist or engineer to fix your generation's problems. Or become a college dropout and make videos about how many problems we will have and how someone should fix them.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Chowderhead — GMT

ph34r wrote:
Chowderhead wrote:Screw this, this is the next generation's problem.

Wait, I'm the next generation. feth.
Become a scientist or engineer to fix your generation's problems. Or become a college dropout and make videos about how many problems we will have and how someone should fix them.

But I wanna be a firefighter!

Fine, I'll go solve the world's problems. Give me half a turkey sandwich, Nuclear Launch Keys, and accesses to Cheyenne mountain. I'll fix it all.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

ph34r — GMT

I can do all of that except the sandwich. You will have to live with ham.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Chowderhead — GMT

I don't eat ham. Do you have Roast Beef?

Also, I'm at 6 minutes, and laughing my head off.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

dogma — GMT

Oh, oh God no. Sapolsky doesn't understand determinism and never has.

Re:Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Chowderhead — GMT

"WW2 is bad because we wasted resources."

Go youself. Most of my family died in the holocaust. War happened because Hitler became a land grabbing, anti-Semitic douche-bag.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Monster Rain — GMT

ph34r wrote:
Chowderhead wrote:Screw this, this is the next generation's problem.

Wait, I'm the next generation. feth.
Become a scientist or engineer to fix your generation's problems. Or become a college dropout and make videos about how many problems we will have and how someone should fix them.

Correction. "High School" drop out, IIRC.

Then he taught himself science!

Anyway, I watched the summary. My Own Private Watching Thread.

Apparently we should get rid of our prisons in order to be civilized?

What do we do with our murderers and child molesters, then? This thing sounds like a bunch of stoned 14 year olds discussing the world's problems.

Ah, so we should limit how many people are on the earth? What happens when we exceed it, if we haven't already?

Do these people have any idea how much of our precious and limited resources completely restructuring a global society and inventorying the world's resources would consume?

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dogma wrote:Oh, oh God no. Sapolsky doesn't understand determinism and never has.

I've got a humble amount of post high school psychology education, and I thought it was pretty well established that "Nature" and "Nurture" aren't mutually exclusive. I suppose that if someone didn't know these things then this guy would seem like an authority.

Re:Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

dogma — GMT

Chowderhead wrote:
Go youself. Most of my family died in the holocaust..

And?

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Monster Rain wrote:
I've got a humble amount of post high school psychology education, and I thought it was pretty well established that "Nature" and "Nurture" aren't mutually exclusive. I suppose that if someone didn't know these things then this guy would seem like an authority.

I can't get over the idea that nature is deterministic, but man is not, because apparently man is not part of nature.

Re:Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Chowderhead — GMT

dogma wrote:
Chowderhead wrote:
Go youself. Most of my family died in the holocaust..

And?

The broadcaster talked about WW2 in a way that suggested that it was un-needed and useless. I find that offensive.

Re:Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Monster Rain — GMT

dogma wrote:I can't get over the idea that nature is deterministic, but man is not, because apparently man is not part of nature.

It seems to almost touch on a mystical sort of "The Secret" sort of thing at times that I find equally amusing and sad.

Re:Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

dogma — GMT

Chowderhead wrote:
The broadcaster talked about WW2 in a way that suggested that it was un-needed and useless. I find that offensive.

Why?

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Monster Rain wrote:
It seems to almost touch on a mystical sort of "The Secret" sort of thing at times that I find equally amusing and sad.

That was the first thing the music reminded me of.

Re:Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Chowderhead — GMT

dogma wrote:
Chowderhead wrote:
The broadcaster talked about WW2 in a way that suggested that it was un-needed and useless. I find that offensive.

Why?

Because if WW2 never happened, I would be dead, my family would be dead, my people would be dead, and everyone would be killing all non-Aryans.

Re:Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Monster Rain — GMT

dogma wrote:That was the first thing the music reminded me of.

Well, that and the newer Battlestar Galactica.

And, well, forget about that other thing. Too late now.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Deadshane1 — GMT

I like all the bashing. Especially since noone has actually made any substantial arguements against anything the video or the idea in general talks about.

"I watched part of it."

"It's stupid."

"You're stupid for posting it...but I'll offer no serious arguement against the ideas within."

Constructive.

"WW2 is bad because we wasted resources."

Go youself. Most of my family died in the holocaust. War happened because Hitler became a land grabbing, anti-Semitic douche-bag.

I see you completely missed the point.

Re:Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

dogma — GMT

Chowderhead wrote:
Because if WW2 never happened, I would be dead, my family would be dead, my people would be dead, and everyone would be killing all non-Aryans.

There were Jews outside Europe, you know.

Also, there was no guarantee that the Germans would have taken the continent.

Re:Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Chowderhead — GMT

dogma wrote:
Chowderhead wrote:
Because if WW2 never happened, I would be dead, my family would be dead, my people would be dead, and everyone would be killing all non-Aryans.

There were Jews outside Europe, you know.

Also, there was no guarantee that the Germans would have taken the continent.

Well, A. I'm Polish, so I was dead from the start if they never fled, and B. If no-one put up a fight, the Nazi's would have steamrolled Europe.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

dogma — GMT

Deadshane1 wrote:I like all the bashing. Especially since noone has actually made any substantial arguements against anything the video or the idea in general talks about.

Yeah, derivative humanism that is poorly explained.

Re:Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Deadshane1 — GMT

Chowderhead wrote:Because if WW2 never happened, I would be dead, my family would be dead, my people would be dead, and everyone would be killing all non-Aryans.

So, if there was no war where people were dying....you would be dead?

Huh?

You're making no sense whatsoever.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Monster Rain — GMT

I'm commenting as I watch it, and I'm pretty sure I gave some substantive rebuttals.

Especially that bit about his harridan of a grandmother.

Re:Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Chowderhead — GMT

Deadshane1 wrote:
Chowderhead wrote:Because if WW2 never happened, I would be dead, my family would be dead, my people would be dead, and everyone would be killing all non-Aryans.

So, if there was no war where people were dying....you would be dead?

Huh?

You're making no sense whatsoever.

Holocaust =/= War. My Grandparents were vorn in Poland, and they were the only ones to come to America.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Blacksails — GMT

Deadshane1 wrote:I like all the bashing. Especially since noone has actually made any substantial arguements against anything the video or the idea in general talks about.

There's nothing substantial in the video to be constructive about. It doesn't say anything, there's no meat. Its just a bunch of wishy-washy, vague concepts and ideas that ultimately are impossible to achieve. Its like an essay with no body, just an intro saying how awesome it'll be and a conclusion saying how awesome the intro was.

Re:Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Monster Rain — GMT

Deadshane1 wrote:
Chowderhead wrote:Because if WW2 never happened, I would be dead, my family would be dead, my people would be dead, and everyone would be killing all non-Aryans.

So, if there was no war where people were dying....you would be dead?

Huh?

You're making no sense whatsoever.

No, it makes sense.

As much as I hate to bring up Nazis, they were doing this whole "Holocaust" thing that you may have heard of. Since Chowdah is jewish, this may have directly affected his current living status. Not unlike when Marty McFly was disappearing from the family photo.

Not that WWII was all about the Holocaust, but it's part of the picture (of the context of WWII, not the McFly family photo).

Re:Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

dogma — GMT

Chowderhead wrote:
Well, A. I'm Polish, so I was dead from the start if they never fled, and B. If no-one put up a fight, the Nazi's would have steamrolled Europe.

!: You weren't alive.

2: Your parents/grandparents had agency.

3: Not fighting is not the same as not fighting WWII.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Deadshane1 — GMT

dogma wrote:
Deadshane1 wrote:I like all the bashing. Especially since noone has actually made any substantial arguements against anything the video or the idea in general talks about.

Yeah, derivative humanism that is poorly explained.

I didnt find anything in the video to be poorly explained. Being that it's meant as an introduction to an idea or set of ideas...I found it to be very interesting.

If one desires more explanation....it is availible. This is a HUGE topic after all that we're talking about here.

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Blacksails wrote:There's nothing substantial in the video to be constructive about. It doesn't say anything, there's no meat. Its just a bunch of wishy-washy, vague concepts and ideas that ultimately are impossible to achieve. Its like an essay with no body, just an intro saying how awesome it'll be and a conclusion saying how awesome the intro was.

I suppose if you wanted to you could say that about any documentary.

I found this one to be full of information and intriguing ideas. Of course I watched it in it's entirety. Being that I HAVE watched it all, I find the claims of "no meat" or "not saying anything" totally false.

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ph34r wrote:
That was the most embarrassing garbage I have ever watched. As an engineer I am saddened that some people think that this is an actual, practical, effective, or even good "in theory" idea. The people who produced this video display a disappointing knowledge of science, technology, and how technological and societal advancements work.

So, as an "engineer" you prefer more violence, famine, unemployment, inequality, waste, and slavery? That's what you're saying after all, though I don't see what being an "engineer" has to do with it other than attempting to establish some sort of false authority on the subject.

I'm sorry, I'll entertain the "theory". While it may not be practical or even possible at this point in time...it's worth paying attention to. Hardly embarrassing.

Embarrassing would be saying everything is fine right now with the world, and NOT even entertaining other ideas.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

ph34r — GMT

Deadshane1 wrote:
ph34r wrote:That was the most embarrassing garbage I have ever watched. As an engineer I am saddened that some people think that this is an actual, practical, effective, or even good "in theory" idea. The people who produced this video display a disappointing knowledge of science, technology, and how technological and societal advancements work.

So, as an "engineer" you prefer more violence, famine, unemployment, inequality, waste, and slavery? That's what you're saying after all, though I don't see what being an "engineer" has to do with it other than attempting to establish some sort of false authority on the subject.

I'm sorry, I'll entertain the "theory".

Nice logical fallacy. I know I shouldn't entertain you with a response... but hell, it makes me laugh

The fact that you are so willing to put words in my mouth is easy for me to understand. You have no logical way to defend this clown of a production, after all how could you? What sort of knowledge of science, technology, economics, or politics do you have again?

I think the answer would be "none", but I'll do you the courtesy of explaining for yourself.

Deadshane1 wrote:While it may not be practical or even possible at this point in time...it's worth paying attention to. Hardly embarrassing.

Embarrassing would be saying everything is fine right now with the world, and NOT even entertaining other ideas.

The reason this is so embarrassing is because it's a person trying to be taken seriously, who is basically saying "what if we knew everything about our resources and planet, and could control society entirely as a given? things would be great!"

No gak they would be great, but if we could know everything about the planet and control everything about humanity there are a ton of better ideas than this lunatic has.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

dogma — GMT

Deadshane1 wrote:
I didnt find anything in the video to be poorly explained. Being that it's meant as an introduction to an idea or set of ideas...I found it to be very interesting.

If one desires more explanation....it is availible. This is a HUGE topic after all that we're talking about here.

Its meant as a sales pitch, and has about as much salience.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

cptbravo — GMT

I believe chowdah, what others are trying to say, in a kind of roundabout way is, that the guy in the video is saying that world war two should have never happened as it was a huge waste of resources, not that no one should have fought the Nazis. Does that make sense?

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Deadshane1 — GMT

ph34r wrote:
Deadshane1 wrote:
ph34r wrote:That was the most embarrassing garbage I have ever watched. As an engineer I am saddened that some people think that this is an actual, practical, effective, or even good "in theory" idea. The people who produced this video display a disappointing knowledge of science, technology, and how technological and societal advancements work.

So, as an "engineer" you prefer more violence, famine, unemployment, inequality, waste, and slavery? That's what you're saying after all, though I don't see what being an "engineer" has to do with it other than attempting to establish some sort of false authority on the subject.

I'm sorry, I'll entertain the "theory".
Nice logical fallacy. I know I shouldn't entertain you with a response... but hell, it makes me laugh

I don't see how this is a fallacy. You actually said that you're saddened by this idea, or that it's even a "good" one. The idea IS at it's heart attacking the horrible states that I pointed out.

The fact that you are so willing to put words in my mouth is easy for me to understand. You have no logical way to defend this clown of a production, after all how could you? What sort of knowledge of science, technology, economics, or politics do you have again?

Probably not enough to satisfy you, I assume you have doctorates or better in all four areas?

The point is that I'm attempting to BE more informed. That's why I posted this entire thing for discussion. So far all you "as an engineer" has done to this point is scold me for having an open mind and thinking that a better and more beneficial society is possible for humanity.

No constructive info to someone who needs more facts, just "that idea's dumb and I'm embarrassed that you're being stupid for watching it."

Thanks, smart guy, for sharing your knowledge.

I think the answer would be "none", but I'll do you the courtesy of explaining for yourself.

You would be thinking wrong if you assume I have no clue on any of the areas you pointed out however. I have no desire to justify myself to you, I'm just attempting to discuss a youtube video that I found to be somewhat inspiring.

Deadshane1 wrote:While it may not be practical or even possible at this point in time...it's worth paying attention to. Hardly embarrassing.

Embarrassing would be saying everything is fine right now with the world, and NOT even entertaining other ideas.
The reason this is so embarrassing is because it's a person trying to be taken seriously, who is basically saying "what if we knew everything about our resources and planet, and could control society entirely as a given? things would be great!"

No gak they would be great, but if we could know everything about the planet and control everything about humanity there are a ton of better ideas than this lunatic has.

I guess the Wright Brothers thought it would be GREAT if they could somehow learn to get people to fly. Good thing you werent around to tell them that it was a lunatic idea....oh wait, those people were around, they ignored them....and flew.

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cptbravo wrote:I believe chowdah, what others are trying to say, in a kind of roundabout way is, that the guy in the video is saying that world war two should have never happened as it was a huge waste of resources, not that no one should have fought the Nazis. Does that make sense?

WWII is a footnote in this entire presentation. One example used. It's hardly a real issue here for discussion.

Re:Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Crablezworth — GMT

Zeitgeist, the movie series are interesting. They do a very good job of outlining all the downsides of capitalism/consumerism. The bs that is religion and the pitfalls of how the economy works. That's about where it stops being interesting though.

From that point on it always seems like some star trek nerds fantasy about resource based economy/society with no explanation of how to get from point a to point b.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

ph34r — GMT

Deadshane1 wrote: Probably not enough to satisfy you, I assume you have doctorates or better in all four areas?

The point is that I'm attempting to BE more informed. That's why I posted this entire thing for discussion. So far all you "as an engineer" has done to this point is scold me for having an open mind and thinking that a better and more beneficial society is possible for humanity.

You are trying to be more informed... by posting some complete nutter's video online, and hoping to learn from discussion by miniature wargamers on the internet???

Are you completely gone?

Deadshane1 wrote:You would be thinking wrong if you assume I have no clue on any of the areas you pointed out however. I have no desire to justify myself to you, I'm just attempting to discuss a youtube video that I found to be somewhat inspiring.

I think it is fair to say that one could argue that everyone has some level of "a clue" on all topics. I think you don't have "no clue". However I think you have a very low level of clue. You might even have such low amount of clue that it in fact could be considered rather than a low level of correct information, but an amount of incorrect information that outweighs the correct. I also think you have no formal "clue" on these subjects.

Deadshane1 wrote:While it may not be practical or even possible at this point in time...it's worth paying attention to. Hardly embarrassing.

There are real professionals that work their entire lives to improve the life of all humanity. They don't need to say "hey, what if we had all this magical knowledge and then changed fething everything and everyone was cool with it and ignore the massive and impossible costs of changing society in this way". This video is the equivalent of what stoned kids talk about, except it's a guy throwing out an hour of scare tactics and big words to try to trick the undereducated into believing a total redo of society is required.

Deadshane1 wrote:Embarrassing would be saying everything is fine right now with the world, and NOT even entertaining other ideas.

Okay. Instead of making videos claiming everything is gak at a fundamental level, let's work to continue solving problems. You could get an advanced education in science, and start solving problems in the world. Join me, it's fun.

Deadshane1 wrote:I guess the Wright Brothers thought it would be GREAT if they could somehow learn to get people to fly. Good thing you werent around to tell them that it was a lunatic idea....oh wait, those people were around, they ignored them....and flew.

What you are saying is exactly the opposite of what is true. Damn, that's a big swing and a miss. The Wright Brothers are exactly what is good in the world, people making inventions and solving problems and improving society. Not sitting around making scaremonger wishlisty videos from their undereducared points of view saying how everything is terrible.

Deadshane1 wrote:
cptbravo wrote:I believe chowdah, what others are trying to say, in a kind of roundabout way is, that the guy in the video is saying that world war two should have never happened as it was a huge waste of resources, not that no one should have fought the Nazis. Does that make sense?
WWII is a footnote in this entire presentation. One example used. It's hardly a real issue here for discussion.

The issue is that he is completely out of touch with reality.

Re:Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

WARORK93 — GMT

So...what? They want to every nation to dissolve their borders and get all of mankind to work together to make some sort of technology based utopia? That's what I got out of that...although I admit that the video was so vague it was hard to get very much concrete things from it...

If I'm on the money...I say...Fat chance...the only way to unite all of mankind is to give it something that requires it to unite for its survival...not much else can be done that could unite the entire earth...

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Deadshane1 — GMT

So basically, gamers or dakkaites in general have no business discussing real life issues? I thought that gamers were open minded and imaginative. That's what this topic is all about. I don't see how miniature gamer forums are a horrible place to discuss issues.

Ph34r, Are you a miniature wargamer? Or an engineer with an opinion on this subject? I ask b/c you're posting here on dakka...yet you think (apparently) that all mini wargamers are too stupid to discuss real issues.

I'm not saying this guy should be Emperor, I don't give a F about this guy...I just thought what he had to say was mildly interesting.

Look man, just so I can understand you, since I'm inept.

Which one(s) of these are false:

Banks rip people off
rich make money off the poor
entire political system is becoming more vague and corrupt
money is the real religion in america
the u.s. is a country of consumers
advertising is bombarding us all
WWII (while necessary) was very expensive and we dont use those same resources to better life today
Violence is way more widespread in poorer areas
Natural rescources are running out
We're NOT addressing the energy crisis

....b/c these are the things the guy's saying. So I don't see what's being made up here. None of these are new topics or things that the guy made up. George Carlin, a political activist was on here too. I know he was probably stupid according to engineers all over, but.... If all the above is incorrect...where do YOU live? I'd like to come live in engineerland.

Let go for a second the pipe-dream utopia, because thats not the entirety of the 2 and a half hours.

The point of the entire video is that we need to change or alter the current system...because they're not working.

This is just something we all need to be aware of, it's not that radical (while the utopia part may be).

I really cannot beleive that you said we should'nt discuss relevant topics here on dakka. I cannot beleive you're not being hounded on here b/c of that. Why can't you try to be an intellectual AND a gamer?

It's ridiculous.

Re:Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Blacksails — GMT

How do banks 'rip people off'? Define 'rip people off'. They're a business. Businesses make money. And where else would I keep my money? Get paid in cash and store it all in a vault in my place?

Vague statements like 'rich make money off the poor' do nothing to add to your argument. There's no meat in it. How? Why? What is enabling them to do that? How could you possibly change it? What difference would it make?

You know what would make your arguments stronger? Facts. Numbers. Scholarly works detailing the plight of the lower classes and how they are supposedly being ruined by the upper class. Also, remember that much of what you're saying is US-centric. While many other states share similar qualities, not every problem the States has is a problem for the rest of the world.

And what is this WWII was necessary nonsense. WWII happened, necessity has no factor in it. Also, I'd like to point out that warfare accelerates technological advancement more so than periods of peace.

The rest of what you said is established fact we all know. Putting it in a video with creepy music and montages doesn't change it.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Karon — GMT

The core of his argument is understandable. We need to change because what we are doing right now isn't working from his point of view.

However, then he goes insane and tells us irrelevent things like "WW2 WAS A WASTE OF TIME GAUIZ"

No gak, most Wars are. They rarely accomplish anything truly beneficial, but they happen.

His ideals are right, but the way he wants to go about is just downright slowed - if you can't see that, you are the same as him.

In theory, most peoples ideals are right, but its the individual that corrupts those ideals.

Hitler wanted to accomplish world peace, he wanted to be united under one flag so that there would be no fighting.

How he was going to go about that though....not so good.

Re:Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Deadshane1 — GMT

Blacksails wrote:How do banks 'rip people off'? Define 'rip people off'. They're a business. Businesses make money. And where else would I keep my money? Get paid in cash and store it all in a vault in my place?

Vague statements like 'rich make money off the poor' do nothing to add to your argument. There's no meat in it. How? Why? What is enabling them to do that? How could you possibly change it? What difference would it make?

These two questions are all I need to tell me that you didnt even watch the video...much less have any idea about how banks work. Have you read the paper in like...ever? You're on the internet right now, right? Go look it up.

You know what would make your arguments stronger? Facts. Numbers. Scholarly works detailing the plight of the lower classes and how they are supposedly being ruined by the upper class. Also, remember that much of what you're saying is US-centric. While many other states share similar qualities, not every problem the States has is a problem for the rest of the world.

What arguments am I making, besides the arguement that the above video (that you have yet to watch) was interesting?

And what is this WWII was necessary nonsense. WWII happened, necessity has no factor in it. Also, I'd like to point out that warfare accelerates technological advancement more so than periods of peace.

War's don't just happen, people make decisions and they occur. I guess the next Hitler that rolls along we'll just all hand over the key's to our car.

For the nosebleeds, my point wanst that WW2 was neccessary, but that U.S. involvement WAS. From what I know Israel was given to the Jew's b/c of WW2.

Was WW2 necessary? Ask the millions of Jews that live in Israel.

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Karon wrote:However, then he goes insane and tells us irrelevent things like "WW2 WAS A WASTE OF TIME GAUIZ"

He never said that.

Re:Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Deathshead420 — GMT

I thought it and the first one was "interesting". The second one moving forwards was just "ok", slow pacing of the second one ruins the mid to end of it.
I would say the first one is better IMO, due to more of a religious overtone.
They are what they are...most people wouldn't know the truth or lies if you proved it to them either way.

Re:Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Deadshane1 — GMT

Blacksails wrote: Also, remember that much of what you're saying is US-centric. While many other states share similar qualities, not every problem the States has is a problem for the rest of the world.

You know the owner of this site lives in the U.S., along with probably the majority of posters in general? Go to the Canadian Dakkadakka. Last time I heard of Canada was b/c South Park was making fun of it. I don't get mad at you guys when you make off topic threads about syrup or hockey. What's all that aboot, eh?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Deathshead420 wrote:I thought it and the first one was "interesting". The second one moving forwards was just "ok", slow pacing of the second one ruins the mid to end of it.
I would say the first one is better IMO, due to more of a religious overtone.
They are what they are...most people wouldn't know the truth or lies if you proved it to them either way.

Yea I agree the first one was better and the Utopia part is a pipe dream. I just thought that the whole thing is thought provoking.

I didnt expect to piss off so many people on here, I thought we'd get more GOOD discussion rather than simply how stupid the whole topic is w/o any arguement otherwise to the contrary.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

dogma — GMT

Karon wrote:The core of his argument is understandable. We need to change because what we are doing right now isn't working from his point of view.

However, then he goes insane and tells us irrelevent things like "WW2 WAS A WASTE OF TIME GAUIZ"

No gak, most Wars are. They rarely accomplish anything truly beneficial, but they happen.

I'm...so...damn...proud.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Deadshane1 wrote: War's don't just happen, people make decisions and they occur. I guess the next Hitler that rolls along we'll just all hand over the key's to our car.

So long as you aren't "undesirable" that isn't a bad plan.

Re:Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Blacksails — GMT

Deadshane1 wrote:
Blacksails wrote: Also, remember that much of what you're saying is US-centric. While many other states share similar qualities, not every problem the States has is a problem for the rest of the world.

You know the owner of this site lives in the U.S., along with probably the majority of posters in general? Go to the Canadian Dakkadakka. Last time I heard of Canada was b/c South Park was making fun of it. I don't get mad at you guys when you make off topic threads about syrup or hockey. What's all that aboot, eh?

Nice. Resorting to insulting other countries. Bravo.

You posted a video that discusses the problems with the world, but a number of those problems are American-centric, and as such, have less impact in other countries. Banking in Canada is much different than banking in America, making your banking point a non-issue for us Canadians.

Anyways, I have no desire to continue this with you if you're going to insult my nationality. Normally I laugh at comments like that, but in this context, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Good day.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Deadshane1 — GMT

Thanks dogma, for engaging me in conversation rather than just saying "you're a dumbhead".

Sometimes I think dakka is populated by spambots.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Blacksails wrote:
Deadshane1 wrote:
Blacksails wrote: Also, remember that much of what you're saying is US-centric. While many other states share similar qualities, not every problem the States has is a problem for the rest of the world.

You know the owner of this site lives in the U.S., along with probably the majority of posters in general? Go to the Canadian Dakkadakka. Last time I heard of Canada was b/c South Park was making fun of it. I don't get mad at you guys when you make off topic threads about syrup or hockey. What's all that aboot, eh?

Nice. Resorting to insulting other countries. Bravo.

You posted a video that discusses the problems with the world, but a number of those problems are American-centric, and as such, have less impact in other countries. Banking in Canada is much different than banking in America, making your banking point a non-issue for us Canadians.

Anyways, I have no desire to continue this with you if you're going to insult my nationality. Normally I laugh at comments like that, but in this context, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Good day.

I bolded the parts that I meant.....I meant the rest as a joke, hence the smiley.

I apologise. I meant no offense, just joking.

However, if you really watch the video. I think you'll find that MUCH of what's said are GLOBAL problems, that and you have to understand, that if America falls...where does that leave YOUR country? America's problems are indeed CANADA'S problems. Beleive me, if the U.S. degrades down to anarchy, you guys are going to hear it.

...pretty much the same way as we here in America would prefer that Canada remains stable and without any sort of upheaval.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Monster Rain — GMT

You know, the more I look into this zeitgeist thing on the internet the less and less I care for it.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Deadshane1 — GMT

Monster Rain wrote:You know, the more I look into this zeitgeist thing on the internet the less and less I care for it.

In what way?

Like you don't like the video, the movement?

Re:Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

dogma — GMT

Subject change:

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Deadshane1 — GMT

You know they're part of the movement, right?

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

notprop — GMT

WW2 accelerated development significantly, this continues after 1945. These developments have filtered into modern society. So there's a reason why this advert is incorrect.

While I admire the sentiment of a better sustainable future, this comes across as an advert for a cult based upon environmental communism. Ironic really, the communism not the cult side (USA seems to lead the world here).

As for the sustainability aspect, moved to Europe especially the Scandinavian nations if you want something like this (chicos are hot too).

The model city looked like something from Joe 90 as well.

It all seems rather flawed to me.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Deadshane1 — GMT

notprop wrote:
While I admire the sentiment of a better sustainable future, this comes across as an advert for a cult based upon environmental communism. Ironic really, the communism not the cult side (USA seems to lead the world here).

"Okay, some people a freaked out about the Venus Project being another form of Communism, Socialism, or any other system of governance. It is none of those.

People are saying the the Resource Based economy is like communism. That is like saying every other method of distribution is pretty much like communism. The thing is, we share resources all the time. It is the method of which we distributed resources that really matters. In a Resource Based economy, you won’t have to worry about money. You don’t need to give it away. No one will force you to give up your stuff. That is YOUR burden. There are no police, no military, no MONEY. That separates a Resource Based economy from communism, socialism, and the rest. There are NO LEADERS. There is no one person or small group of people who run everything. It is an economy based on resources rather than an economy based on money."

Automatically Appended Next Post:

notprop wrote:WW2 accelerated development significantly, this continues after 1945. These developments have filtered into modern society. So there's a reason why this advert is incorrect.

Humanity does NOT "need" war in order to advance technologically. War is NEVER a good thing, not even where technological advancement is involved. The costs for the technological advancement during the war were 50-70 million persons who lost their lives during the war. What? So you could have a cell phone today?

I think every one of those people who died during the war would've preferred another avenue for "technological advancement" over that of a World War.

Advancement aside, the point made about WW2 was that it was a reckless usage of rescources. One that we havent matched in more altruistic endeavors....like homelessness, famine, or disease. The country came together to fight WW2 with housewives going to work in steel factories to make tanks and bombs while husbands were overseas fighting. Seeing the country come together to come up with a cure for Cancer would be nice....

....but since it's not profitable to "Cure" cancer, I don't think we'll see that.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

notprop — GMT

Deadshane1 wrote:
notprop wrote:
While I admire the sentiment of a better sustainable future, this comes across as an advert for a cult based upon environmental communism. Ironic really, the communism not the cult side (USA seems to lead the world here).

"Okay, some people a freaked out about the Venus Project being another form of Communism, Socialism, or any other system of governance. It is none of those.

People are saying the the Resource Based economy is like communism. That is like saying every other method of distribution is pretty much like communism. The thing is, we share resources all the time. It is the method of which we distributed resources that really matters. In a Resource Based economy, you won’t have to worry about money. You don’t need to give it away. No one will force you to give up your stuff. That is YOUR burden. There are no police, no military, no MONEY. That separates a Resource Based economy from communism, socialism, and the rest. There are NO LEADERS. There is no one person or small group of people who run everything. It is an economy based on resources rather than an economy based on money."

Sorry fella, not my intent to get you so riled up, certainly not to the extent that you have quoted The Good Word to me.

But I will say this, as system with no police, no military and no money is one thing, but no leaders?

This chap is obviously delusional if he thinks that any human social system will operate without it leaders never mind Grunts, rozzers or cash.

There are hierarchies in all culture even the war-free animal world. To have no leaders smacks of naivety.

This dream future will still have crime, accidents and disasters, even without then people will still look up to others for example, advice and leadership.

Deadshane1 wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

notprop wrote:WW2 accelerated development significantly, this continues after 1945. These developments have filtered into modern society. So there's a reason why this advert is incorrect.

Humanity does NOT "need" war in order to advance technologically. War is NEVER a good thing, not even where technological advancement is involved. The costs for the technological advancement during the war were 50-70 million persons who lost their lives during the war. What? So you could have a cell phone today?

I think every one of those people who died during the war would've preferred another avenue for "technological advancement" over that of a World War.

Advancement aside, the point made about WW2 was that it was a reckless usage of rescources. One that we havent matched in more altruistic endeavors....like homelessness, famine, or disease. The country came together to fight WW2 with housewives going to work in steel factories to make tanks and bombs while husbands were overseas fighting. Seeing the country come together to come up with a cure for Cancer would be nice....

....but since it's not profitable to "Cure" cancer, I don't think we'll see that.

I don't think anyone (except you just then) said the war is "needed"? It was stated that no benefit came from war, this is factually incorrect. Not just Technologically but Socially as well. I.e. National Health here in the UK. Pretty altruistic I think.

If we could have had that with out the deaths then that would be great but this feller is flogging an ideology not a time machine.

As for a cure for cancer, the first company that invents that is guaranteed a virtual monopoly (bigger than GWs ), that would seem pretty profitable to me with the added bonus that all your competitors find their chemicals/placebos redundant.

Sorry mate this ain't going to happen unless there some other way of relieving everyone (never mind the super rich) of their land/money/possessions other than war/revolution. So to avoid future wars this fella will have to ignore his own beliefs and get his hads a bit dirty - for the greater good.

This is all starting to sound like an episode in Star Trek/Stargate where they discover a perfect society only to find that the Troglodytes/Tau are running the show or something.

Actually its worse that that, this fella has seen The Demolition Man and wants t be Dr Cockteau/Nigel Hawthorne!

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

ph34r — GMT

Deadshane1 wrote:So basically, gamers or dakkaites in general have no business discussing real life issues? I thought that gamers were open minded and imaginative. That's what this topic is all about. I don't see how miniature gamer forums are a horrible place to discuss issues.

Ph34r, Are you a miniature wargamer? Or an engineer with an opinion on this subject? I ask b/c you're posting here on dakka...yet you think (apparently) that all mini wargamers are too stupid to discuss real issues.

I'm not saying this guy should be Emperor, I don't give a F about this guy...I just thought what he had to say was mildly interesting.

Gamers or dakkaites are not in any way knowledgeable about the issues, real or not, described in this video. Not all mini wargamers are too stupid to discuss real life issues, did I ever say that? No, but it would be a lot more convenient for your argument if I did. I did however say that discussing this topic here will not yield illumination for you.

Deadshane1 wrote:Look man, just so I can understand you, since I'm inept.

Which one(s) of these are false:

Banks rip people off
rich make money off the poor
entire political system is becoming more vague and corrupt
money is the real religion in america
the u.s. is a country of consumers
advertising is bombarding us all
WWII (while necessary) was very expensive and we dont use those same resources to better life today
Violence is way more widespread in poorer areas
Natural rescources are running out
We're NOT addressing the energy crisis

1. No. People choose to overspend, the banks facilitate that.
2. Duh. The rich also make money off of the rich. It would be insanity to say otherwise, after all the rich must get money somewhere? The poor also make money off the poor.
3. Everywhere in the world? Here in the US? We are currently in a troubling time with all the teaparty Dunning–Kruger effect folks thinking they can do politics, but that doesn't mean that the political system is becoming "more vague and corrupt"
4. The feth? No.
5. Welcome to capitalism?
6. Bombarding? What? Advertising exists.
7. WWII, while necessary, also saw advancements across the board in technology. Medicine, communication, computers, airplanes... a quick Google search should be enough to convince anyone. In fact, if WWII had never happen, we would not be nearly as advanced technologically as we are today. Standard of living would be lower. Now, were these gains worth all those deaths in a vacuum? Maybe, it's hard to say. Were they worth it in the context of stopping the Third Reich? Yes.
8. Yes.
9. Sort of. Some are running out, others we are beginning to renew and recycle efficiently, others we are switching away from for alternatives.
10. We are. Not as much as I would want, but we are. I would have the US switch to Thorium fueled nuclear power, but the general populace is too afraid of nuclear power plants to back it, and the republicans with their coal and oil industries will want to milk everyone as long as they can.

Deadshane1 wrote:....b/c these are the things the guy's saying. So I don't see what's being made up here. None of these are new topics or things that the guy made up. George Carlin, a political activist was on here too. I know he was probably stupid according to engineers all over, but.... If all the above is incorrect...where do YOU live? I'd like to come live in engineerland.

Let go for a second the pipe-dream utopia, because thats not the entirety of the 2 and a half hours.

The point of the entire video is that we need to change or alter the current system...because they're not working.

This is just something we all need to be aware of, it's not that radical (while the utopia part may be).

I live in California! Engineerland is great, weather is warm and it never snows.
It is not an uncommon belief that the current *insert anything here* is not working/not working well enough/not working how I want it to. The way this lunatic wants to go about "fixing" his perceived "problems" however? Complete garbage.

Deadshane1 wrote:I really cannot beleive that you said we should'nt discuss relevant topics here on dakka. I cannot beleive you're not being hounded on here b/c of that. Why can't you try to be an intellectual AND a gamer?

It's ridiculous.

I think that Dakka is a fine place to discuss topics.

I think this Zeitgeist guy is an underinformed fearmongering fool.

I think that you can be an intellectual and a gamer... and I think that most people on dakka are not informed enough to discuss serious matters such as the (ridiculous) points raised by this video. Dakka is not a good place to discuss such serious issues. Is there a better one out there on the internet? I don't know, I'm not looking for one.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Monster Rain — GMT

Deadshane1 wrote:
Monster Rain wrote:You know, the more I look into this zeitgeist thing on the internet the less and less I care for it.

In what way?

Like you don't like the video, the movement?

I don't like the video. I genuinely tried to watch it, brother. I've done a lot of reading on cults and whatnot, and a lot of this sounds like theosophy with "universal wisdom" replaced with "technology." The whole "Jesus is the Gnostic Solar Deity" (paraphrasing, here) bit is right out their playbook. I have literally heard and/or read this spiel at least 10 times from different groups that are claiming to hat "the answer."

I wasn't kidding around when I said that it sounds like The Secret, and there are quite a few carnies out there working that angle to profit off of people who are looking for answers. This really comes off as another one.

On an unrelated note:

ITT yet another person who posts here but acts like they're too cool/smart to post here.

Talk about cognitive dissonance.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

ph34r — GMT

Monster Rain wrote:ITT yet another person who posts here but acts like they're too cool/smart to post here.

Talk about cognitive dissonance.

I don't always view the Off-Topic forum, but when I do, the threads are usually terrible. This one is extra terrible.

And just because I am cooler/smarter than you, doesn't mean that being cool and smart is bad. Try it sometime?

EDIT: And If you think "being informed" and "posting in Off-Topic" are enough to cause cognitive dissonance, well... I guess I'm just sad for you.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Karon — GMT

dogma wrote:
Karon wrote:The core of his argument is understandable. We need to change because what we are doing right now isn't working from his point of view.

However, then he goes insane and tells us irrelevent things like "WW2 WAS A WASTE OF TIME GAUIZ"

No gak, most Wars are. They rarely accomplish anything truly beneficial, but they happen.

I'm...so...damn...proud.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Deadshane1 wrote: War's don't just happen, people make decisions and they occur. I guess the next Hitler that rolls along we'll just all hand over the key's to our car.

So long as you aren't "undesirable" that isn't a bad plan.

<3 <3

Deadshane, seeing as you ignored my post entirely, I'm going to drop out and say you are only engaging in arguments you think you can justify enough.

If you think that this man and his "movement" will do anything, then you are naive.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Monster Rain — GMT

ph34r wrote:EDIT: And If you think "being informed" and "posting in Off-Topic" are enough to cause cognitive dissonance, well... I guess I'm just sad for you.

I'll use your own rudeness against you here. It seems to fit.

ph34r wrote: Nice logical fallacy. I know I shouldn't entertain you with a response... but hell, it makes me laugh

Re:Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

reds8n — GMT

.. I under and appreciate, really, how frustrating it is when another poster just cannot or will not see exactly how right you really, truly are. We've all been there, probably on both sides of this particular dance.

But this does not give you free license to insult the other poster/s, be it through creative attempts to bypass the swear filter or by making general cracks about their understanding and intelligence.

So, please, stop doing it. Feel free to point out the flaws in the argument or presentation presented, or simply say why you don't feel that the idea(s) are workable.

Or, you know, shrug it off and move along.

Obliged.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

ph34r — GMT

Monster Rain wrote: I'll use your own rudeness against you here. It seems to fit.

You assume (incorrectly) that I "think I'm too cool to post here" (and how could you know what I think?), yet I "post here anyway". Would you care to support your (wrong) assessments? I would think not, because you are not psychic, feel free to impress me.

But hey, I get it. It's a lot easier to put words in my mouth than to actually form arguments. If you don't want to be coherent though, we are in fact in Off-Topic, and there are a million threads that don't necessitate being reasonable.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Monster Rain — GMT

ph34r wrote:
Monster Rain wrote: I'll use your own rudeness against you here. It seems to fit.
You assume (incorrectly) that I "think I'm too cool to post here" (and how could you know what I think?), yet I "post here anyway". Would you care to support your (wrong) assessments? I would think not, because you are not psychic, feel free to impress me.

But hey, I get it. It's a lot easier to put words in my mouth than to actually form arguments. If you don't want to be coherent though, we are in fact in Off-Topic, and there are a million threads that don't necessitate being reasonable.

I don't know who you think you're kidding.

Anyway, when you grow out of this "I need to insult people who disagree with me" phase maybe you'll be taken a little more seriously. Sure, we were having a little fun with the video, but there was some discussion of it sprinkled in there. You took it to an extremely nasty and personal place.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Deadshane1 — GMT

ph34r wrote:You are trying to be more informed... by posting some complete nutter's video online, and hoping to learn from discussion by miniature wargamers on the internet???

ph34r wrote:I think that Dakka is a fine place to discuss topics.

When you can stop being hypocritical, we can discuss the actual issue. Too close to trolling for my tastes.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

ph34r — GMT

Deadshane1 wrote:
ph34r wrote:You are trying to be more informed... by posting some complete nutter's video online, and hoping to learn from discussion by miniature wargamers on the internet???

ph34r wrote:I think that Dakka is a fine place to discuss topics.

When you can stop being hypocritical, we can discuss the actual issue. Too close to trolling for my tastes.

Those are not mutually exclusive or indicative of cognitive dissonance. I think both of them, and I stand by both of those quotes.

Dakka is a fine place to discuss things. Are you going to learn from the discussions here, especially on one as immense as this Zeitgeist movement? Haha no.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Monster Rain wrote:I don't know who you think you're kidding.

Anyway, when you grow out of this "I need to insult people who disagree with me" phase maybe you'll be taken a little more seriously. Sure, we were having a little fun with the video, but there was some discussion of it sprinkled in there. You took it to an extremely nasty and personal place.

You condemn insults, yet you yourself sling them around casually. After all, we were not discussing/quoting each other until you threw out a random insult at me. Did you forget about that? It was like 4 posts ago man.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Mr. Self Destruct — GMT

ph34r wrote:
Deadshane1 wrote:
ph34r wrote:You are trying to be more informed... by posting some complete nutter's video online, and hoping to learn from discussion by miniature wargamers on the internet???

ph34r wrote:I think that Dakka is a fine place to discuss topics.

When you can stop being hypocritical, we can discuss the actual issue. Too close to trolling for my tastes.
Those are not mutually exclusive or indicative of cognitive dissonance. I think both of them, and I stand by both of those quotes.

Dakka is a fine place to discuss things. Are you going to learn from the discussions here, especially on one as immense as this Zeitgeist movement? Haha no.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Monster Rain wrote:I don't know who you think you're kidding.

Anyway, when you grow out of this "I need to insult people who disagree with me" phase maybe you'll be taken a little more seriously. Sure, we were having a little fun with the video, but there was some discussion of it sprinkled in there. You took it to an extremely nasty and personal place.
You condemn insults, yet you yourself sling them around casually. After all, we were not discussing/quoting each other until you threw out a random insult at me. Did you forget about that? It was like 4 posts ago man.

I like the part when you insulted everyone's intelligence by basically saying us wargamers are too stupid to discuss something as fundamentally basic as 'breaking down society and eliminating all semblance of order is bad, bad, bad'. Oh what, you'd rather us have discussions like 'WICH SPARTAN DOS MARNEUS CALGER LOOK LIKE' all day?
Clearly you as the high-and-mighty internet tough guy are much, much smarter than everyone else because you have the power of contradiction.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Monster Rain — GMT

ph34r wrote:
Monster Rain wrote:I don't know who you think you're kidding.

Anyway, when you grow out of this "I need to insult people who disagree with me" phase maybe you'll be taken a little more seriously. Sure, we were having a little fun with the video, but there was some discussion of it sprinkled in there. You took it to an extremely nasty and personal place.
You condemn insults, yet you yourself sling them around casually. After all, we were not discussing/quoting each other until you threw out a random insult at me. Did you forget about that? It was like 4 posts ago man.

Was it an insult, or commentary on someone's behavior?

And, if those two things are by necessity the same thing, perhaps someone should reevaluate the way they are interacting with people.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

SilverMK2 — GMT

All hail Multivac!

I think this whole idea is nothing more than wishlisting and dream land thinking and not practical in any realistic way. Communism is a fantastic way of doing things in theory, as are many other political and social systems. But people are people, and no system is perfect. There will always be waste and imbalance no matter how well designed a system is.

You may as well say that it would be awesome if we could turn the solar system into a Dyson Sphere and harvest every drop of solar power from the sun to power a giant engine so we could fly around the universe and seduce all the sexy aliens.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Deadshane1 — GMT

ph34r wrote:
Deadshane1 wrote:
ph34r wrote:You are trying to be more informed... by posting some complete nutter's video online, and hoping to learn from discussion by miniature wargamers on the internet???

ph34r wrote:I think that Dakka is a fine place to discuss topics.

When you can stop being hypocritical, we can discuss the actual issue. Too close to trolling for my tastes.
Those are not mutually exclusive or indicative of cognitive dissonance. I think both of them, and I stand by both of those quotes.

Dakka is a fine place to discuss things. Are you going to learn from the discussions here, especially on one as immense as this Zeitgeist movement? Haha no.

Denial.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

ph34r — GMT

Mr. Self Destruct wrote:I like the part when you insulted everyone's intelligence by basically saying us wargamers are too stupid to discuss something as fundamentally basic as 'breaking down society and eliminating all semblance of order is bad, bad, bad'. Oh what, you'd rather us have discussions like 'WICH SPARTAN DOS MARNEUS CALGER LOOK LIKE' all day?
Clearly you as the high-and-mighty internet tough guy are much, much smarter than everyone else because you have the power of contradiction.

Do you really think that a wargaming website will have a high population of members that are conveniently highly knowledgeable about these extremely high level concepts like global politics and resource use? If you do then I can understand your point of view. If you don't then I can't.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Monster Rain wrote:Was it an insult, or commentary on someone's behavior?

And, if those two things are by necessity the same thing, perhaps someone should reevaluate the way they are interacting with people.

Good question. It was an insult. Very often insults are also commentaries on one's behavior, such as the insult you are trying to cover up. They are not by necessity. I think we both know that you know that.

I can make a "not insult" about you as well. If all it takes for you to be satisfied that something is not an insult, is that it is also a commentary on behavior, then feel free to not be offended by my saying that you are acting like an idiot.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Deadshane1 wrote:
ph34r wrote:Those are not mutually exclusive or indicative of cognitive dissonance. I think both of them, and I stand by both of those quotes.

Dakka is a fine place to discuss things. Are you going to learn from the discussions here, especially on one as immense as this Zeitgeist movement? Haha no.

Denial.

Saying "Denial" is not an argument. Do you think that the wargaming community on DakkaDakka is a place that you are going to learn factual and well supported information about global politics and resource consumption? Again, maybe you do. If so I can see why you might think that a discussion here would be a good idea. I assert that this is in fact not a fit place to go if you truly want to learn about such things, but rather a degree and a career in politics or environmental engineering would be a fit way to learn.

Re:Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

rubiksnoob — GMT

The arrogance in this thread is cranked up to 11.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

ph34r — GMT

SilverMK2 wrote:You may as well say that it would be awesome if we could turn the solar system into a Dyson Sphere and harvest every drop of solar power from the sun to power a giant engine so we could fly around the universe and seduce all the sexy aliens.

I like the way you think.

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rubiksnoob wrote:The arrogance in this thread is cranked up to 11.

We might be able to hit 12 if we try hard.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Deadshane1 — GMT

ph34r wrote:Do you really think that a wargaming website will have a high population of members that are conveniently highly knowledgeable about these extremely high level concepts like global politics and resource use? If you do then I can understand your point of view. If you don't then I can't.

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ph34r wrote: Do you think that the wargaming community on DakkaDakka is a place that you are going to learn factual and well supported information about global politics and resource consumption? Again, maybe you do. If so I can see why you might think that a discussion here would be a good idea. I assert that this is in fact not a fit place to go if you truly want to learn about such things, but rather a degree and a career in politics or environmental engineering would be a fit way to learn.

Denial, trolling.

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ph34r wrote:

rubiksnoob wrote:The arrogance in this thread is cranked up to 11.
We might be able to hit 12 if we try hard.

You've already hit 15....the level is an average.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

ph34r — GMT

Deadshane1 wrote:Denial, trolling.

Don't you find it a bit ironic to call someone else's well reasoned question denail and trolling, when you yourself are... denying? Trolling? Without even trying to explain or support yourself.

It's the internet equivalent of a 5 year old going "la la la can't hear you any more!"

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

rubiksnoob — GMT

ph34r wrote:

Deadshane1 wrote:
ph34r wrote:Those are not mutually exclusive or indicative of cognitive dissonance. I think both of them, and I stand by both of those quotes.

Dakka is a fine place to discuss things. Are you going to learn from the discussions here, especially on one as immense as this Zeitgeist movement? Haha no.

Denial.
Saying "Denial" is not an argument. Do you think that the wargaming community on DakkaDakka is a place that you are going to learn factual and well supported information about global politics and resource consumption? Again, maybe you do. If so I can see why you might think that a discussion here would be a good idea. I assert that this is in fact not a fit place to go if you truly want to learn about such things, but rather a degree and a career in politics or environmental engineering would be a fit way to learn.

Although dakka may not be the absolute best place to discuss such topics, it has two things going for it:

1. The majority of posters on this board display a general willingness to debate and discuss things in a far more civilized and intelligent manner than the rest of the internet.

2. It is somewhat more accessible than your suggestion of obtaining a degree in politics or environmental engineering. People generally don't run off and get a degree in everything that they enjoy having intelligent discussion about.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

SilverMK2 — GMT

ph34r wrote:
SilverMK2 wrote:You may as well say that it would be awesome if we could turn the solar system into a Dyson Sphere and harvest every drop of solar power from the sun to power a giant engine so we could fly around the universe and seduce all the sexy aliens.
I like the way you think.

Hands off lads... this one's mine!

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Deadshane1 — GMT

ph34r wrote:
Deadshane1 wrote:Denial, trolling.
Don't you find it a bit ironic to call someone else's well reasoned question denail and trolling, when you yourself are... denying? Trolling? Without even trying to explain or support yourself.

It's the internet equivalent of a 5 year old going "la la la can't hear you any more!"

Tit for tat.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

ph34r — GMT

rubiksnoob wrote:
ph34r wrote:Saying "Denial" is not an argument. Do you think that the wargaming community on DakkaDakka is a place that you are going to learn factual and well supported information about global politics and resource consumption? Again, maybe you do. If so I can see why you might think that a discussion here would be a good idea. I assert that this is in fact not a fit place to go if you truly want to learn about such things, but rather a degree and a career in politics or environmental engineering would be a fit way to learn.

Although dakka may not be the absolute best place to discuss such topics, it has two things going for it:

1. The majority of posters on this board display a general willingness to debate and discuss things in a far more civilized and intelligent manner than the rest of the internet.

2. It is somewhat more accessible than your suggestion of obtaining a degree in politics or environmental engineering. People generally don't run off and get a degree in everything that they enjoy having intelligent discussion about.

Those points are both true. The problem still remains, even if you have a community full of posters willing to debate, what value is that for learning on a topic like this that is, as you said, not very accessible to most? We can debate all we want, but nobody in here is knowledgeable on the topic or a valid authority.

Re:Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Deadshane1 — GMT

@Silver

Something about that image seems NSFW.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Mr. Self Destruct — GMT

ph34r wrote:but nobody in here is knowledgeable on the topic or a valid authority.

'Hey guys, apparently I'm not nobody and everyone else is stupid.'
Seriously, I talk gak about video games and politics all day long. Do you think I need a degree in game programming or political science to do that? No.
Fun Fact: POTUS went to Harvard, and can't speak without a teleprompter or he sounds like he has Alzheimers'.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

ph34r — GMT

Deadshane1 wrote:Tit for tat.

Now I really do think you're trolling. Are you not satisfied by my reasoning that Dakka is not the best place to learn PhD level topics?

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Mr. Self Destruct wrote:
ph34r wrote:but nobody in here is knowledgeable on the topic or a valid authority.

'Hey guys, apparently I'm not nobody and everyone else is stupid.'

I'm definitely not an authority on the topic. I cannot teach you global politics and global resource consumption. A university and a career can do that.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Deadshane1 — GMT

ph34r wrote:
rubiksnoob wrote:
ph34r wrote:Saying "Denial" is not an argument. Do you think that the wargaming community on DakkaDakka is a place that you are going to learn factual and well supported information about global politics and resource consumption? Again, maybe you do. If so I can see why you might think that a discussion here would be a good idea. I assert that this is in fact not a fit place to go if you truly want to learn about such things, but rather a degree and a career in politics or environmental engineering would be a fit way to learn.

Although dakka may not be the absolute best place to discuss such topics, it has two things going for it:

1. The majority of posters on this board display a general willingness to debate and discuss things in a far more civilized and intelligent manner than the rest of the internet.

2. It is somewhat more accessible than your suggestion of obtaining a degree in politics or environmental engineering. People generally don't run off and get a degree in everything that they enjoy having intelligent discussion about.
Those points are both true. The problem still remains, even if you have a community full of posters willing to debate, what value is that for learning on a topic like this that is, as you said, not very accessible to most? We can debate all we want, but nobody in here is knowledgeable on the topic or a valid authority.

If this thread is such a waste of time as you're implying...shouldn't you go "engineer" something?

Why don't you let the rest of us stupid inept dakka posters spout off our mindless opinions about things we cannot understand. You're far too intelligent to be mired in this swamp of retardedness.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Albatross — GMT

ph34r, unless you think that you are uniquely intelligent (which would be, frankly, risible - and probably insane), then surely you wouldn't discount the possibility that there may be other OT posters who may indeed be knowledgeable on a variety of topics, indeed, who may even be able to teach you something. I mean, we have teachers, lawyers, civil servants, artists, musicians, soldiers, scientists...

YOU ARE NOT A UNIQUE AND BEAUTIFUL SNOWFLAKE.

Sorry, sweetheart. Zeitgeist does appear to be pretty fething wacky, though.

Re:Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

SilverMK2 — GMT

Deadshane1 wrote:@Silver

Something about that image seems NSFW.

That would be the raw, unrelenting sex appeal.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Monster Rain — GMT

ph34r wrote:
Monster Rain wrote:Was it an insult, or commentary on someone's behavior?

And, if those two things are by necessity the same thing, perhaps someone should reevaluate the way they are interacting with people.
Good question. It was an insult. Very often insults are also commentaries on one's behavior, such as the insult you are trying to cover up. They are not by necessity. I think we both know that you know that.

I can make a "not insult" about you as well. If all it takes for you to be satisfied that something is not an insult, is that it is also a commentary on behavior, then feel free to not be offended by my saying that you are acting like an idiot.

I'm not though, that's the difference. Now you're just lashing out because you've been caught with your pants down.

If someone is acting like a jerk, and gets called on it, the fault is with the person who is being a jerk not the one that points out their antisocial and frankly embarrassing to watch behavior.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

rubiksnoob — GMT

ph34r wrote:
rubiksnoob wrote:
ph34r wrote:Saying "Denial" is not an argument. Do you think that the wargaming community on DakkaDakka is a place that you are going to learn factual and well supported information about global politics and resource consumption? Again, maybe you do. If so I can see why you might think that a discussion here would be a good idea. I assert that this is in fact not a fit place to go if you truly want to learn about such things, but rather a degree and a career in politics or environmental engineering would be a fit way to learn.

Although dakka may not be the absolute best place to discuss such topics, it has two things going for it:

1. The majority of posters on this board display a general willingness to debate and discuss things in a far more civilized and intelligent manner than the rest of the internet.

2. It is somewhat more accessible than your suggestion of obtaining a degree in politics or environmental engineering. People generally don't run off and get a degree in everything that they enjoy having intelligent discussion about.
Those points are both true. The problem still remains, even if you have a community full of posters willing to debate, what value is that for learning on a topic like this that is, as you said, not very accessible to most? We can debate all we want, but nobody in here is knowledgeable on the topic or a valid authority.

Urrr. . . maybe us mortals enjoy discussing things that we don't all have doctorates in from time to time? I'm sorry, but I don't see what you've got your pretty little panties all in a knot about.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Deadshane1 — GMT

ph34r wrote:
Deadshane1 wrote:Tit for tat.
Now I really do think you're trolling. Are you not satisfied by my reasoning that Dakka is not the best place to learn PhD level topics?

No, im not.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

ph34r — GMT

Mr. Self Destruct wrote:Seriously, I talk gak about video games and politics all day long. Do you think I need a degree in game programming or political science to do that? No.
Fun Fact: POTUS went to Harvard, and can't speak without a teleprompter or he sounds like he has Alzheimers'.

I'm not trying to take away your God given right to talk about things. I will however tell you that if you want to learn about serious topics, you're not going to do so here.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Monster Rain — GMT

ph34r wrote:
Deadshane1 wrote:Tit for tat.
Now I really do think you're trolling. Are you not satisfied by my reasoning that Dakka is not the best place to learn PhD level topics?

Goalpost moving powers, activate.

What a gem we have discovered.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

rubiksnoob — GMT

Albatross wrote:

YOU ARE NOT A UNIQUE AND BEAUTIFUL SNOWFLAKE.

Oh please, speak for yourself.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

ph34r — GMT

Monster Rain wrote:I'm not though, that's the difference. Now you're just lashing out because you've been caught with your pants down.

If someone is acting like a jerk, and gets called on it, the fault is with the person who is being a jerk not the one that points out their antisocial and frankly embarrassing to watch behavior.

You insulted me. I insulted you. You tried to call me out on being a hypocrite. I called you out on being a hypocrite in turn. Now you have just devolved to slinging as many insults as you can fit into a post. If anything is embarrassing, that is.

I am also strongly willing to bet that in a "being social" contest, I would run you to the ground.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

rubiksnoob — GMT

ph34r wrote:
Deadshane1 wrote:Tit for tat.
Now I really do think you're trolling. Are you not satisfied by my reasoning that Dakka is not the best place to learn PhD level topics?

You have much to learn about OT, young grasshopper.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

ph34r — GMT

rubiksnoob wrote:Urrr. . . maybe us mortals enjoy discussing things that we don't all have doctorates in from time to time? I'm sorry, but I don't see what you've got your pretty little panties all in a knot about.

Others in this thread are arguing that we can actually learn about the topics in the Zeitgeist video. I disagree for the reason that none of us have any idea what they are talking about with regards to the "big issues" that Zeitgeist tries to uncover.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

rubiksnoob — GMT

ph34r wrote:
Monster Rain wrote:I'm not though, that's the difference. Now you're just lashing out because you've been caught with your pants down.

If someone is acting like a jerk, and gets called on it, the fault is with the person who is being a jerk not the one that points out their antisocial and frankly embarrassing to watch behavior.
You insulted me. I insulted you. You tried to call me out on being a hypocrite. I called you out on being a hypocrite in turn. Now you have just devolved to slinging as many insults as you can fit into a post. If anything is embarrassing, that is.

I am also strongly willing to bet that in a "being social" contest, I would run you to the ground.

Nothing says anti-social like bragging about how social you are.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

ph34r — GMT

rubiksnoob wrote:You have much to learn about OT, young grasshopper.

I've been thinking about taking an online class at DakkaDakka University to become a better nuclear physicist.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Monster Rain — GMT

ph34r wrote:You insulted me.

If an accurate description of your behavior is insulting that's on you, hoss.

ph34r wrote:I am also strongly willing to bet that in a "being social" contest, I would run you to the ground.

This thread was fun before someone started begging for attention.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

ph34r — GMT

rubiksnoob wrote:Nothing says anti-social like bragging about how social you are.

It was a cheap shot, I'll admit.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Monster Rain — GMT

rubiksnoob wrote:Nothing says anti-social like bragging about how social you are.

True story.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Albatross — GMT

Wait, are we supposed be learning something?

Oh, now I remember - I don't give a gak.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

rubiksnoob — GMT

ph34r wrote:
rubiksnoob wrote:Urrr. . . maybe us mortals enjoy discussing things that we don't all have doctorates in from time to time? I'm sorry, but I don't see what you've got your pretty little panties all in a knot about.
Others in this thread are arguing that we can actually learn about the topics in the Zeitgeist video. I disagree for the reason that none of us have any idea what they are talking about with regards to the "big issues" that Zeitgeist tries to uncover.

We may not become experts on the issue, but that doesn't mean we can't learn anything about it. For instance, I had no idea that this whole Zeitgeist thing existed. Boom. I do now. It may all be a bit silly, in my opinion, but that doesn't mean I didn't learn anything. Sheesh, talk about being narrow-minded.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

ph34r — GMT

Albatross wrote:Wait, are we supposed be learning something?

Oh, now I remember - I don't give a gak.

According to Deadshane, apparently we were supposed to learn in this thread. That was like 3 pages ago though, I don't know if he still thinks that. I know I definitely didn't come here to learn.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Deadshane1 — GMT

ph34r wrote:
Mr. Self Destruct wrote:Seriously, I talk gak about video games and politics all day long. Do you think I need a degree in game programming or political science to do that? No.
Fun Fact: POTUS went to Harvard, and can't speak without a teleprompter or he sounds like he has Alzheimers'.
I'm not trying to take away your God given right to talk about things. I will however tell you that if you want to learn about serious topics, you're not going to do so here.

I suppose we should restrict off-topic to "my little pony" threads then.

YOU certainly havent added anything to this thread...other than, "You're a dumbhead", "Dakkaites are stupid", "I'm smarter than you" and general trolling.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

ph34r — GMT

rubiksnoob wrote:We may not become experts on the issue, but that doesn't mean we can't learn anything about it. For instance, I had no idea that this whole Zeitgeist thing existed. Boom. I do now. It may all be a bit silly, in my opinion, but that doesn't mean I didn't learn anything. Sheesh, talk about being narrow-minded.

That's true. We all did learn that Zeitgeist exists, myself included. I still don't think that we will learn anything about the issues that Zeitgeist describes.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

rubiksnoob — GMT

ph34r wrote:
Albatross wrote:Wait, are we supposed be learning something?

Oh, now I remember - I don't give a gak.
According to Deadshane, apparently we were supposed to learn in this thread. That was like 3 pages ago though, I don't know if he still thinks that. I know I definitely didn't come here to learn.

I came here with an open mind, read up a little bit on what Deadshane was talking about (I learned about it!) and decided that I thought it was a bunch of nonsense. I also learned a lot about superiority complexes, too. See? Who needs psych. class when you've got Dakka!

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

ph34r — GMT

Deadshane1 wrote:I suppose we should restrict off-topic to "my little pony" threads then.

YOU certainly havent added anything to this thread...other than, "You're a dumbhead", "Dakkaites are stupid", "I'm smarter than you" and general trolling.

I think you and I both know that there are plenty of things that Dakkaites are knowledgeable about and can discuss.

Just not "how shall we reorder the world government, and why".

Automatically Appended Next Post:

rubiksnoob wrote:I came here with an open mind, read up a little bit on what Deadshane was talking about (I learned about it!) and decided that I thought it was a bunch of nonsense. I also learned a lot about superiority complexes, too. See? Who needs psych. class when you've got Dakka!

Nah, I don't think I'm superior to everyone. I do however think that if you go to DakkaDakka OT expecting to learn about PhD level topics, you've got another thing coming.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Deadshane1 — GMT

ph34r wrote:
Albatross wrote:Wait, are we supposed be learning something?

Oh, now I remember - I don't give a gak.
According to Deadshane, apparently we were supposed to learn in this thread. That was like 3 pages ago though, I don't know if he still thinks that. I know I definitely didn't come here to learn.

Umm, I just posted a video for discussion...I didnt claim anyone should learn from it. In fact, I posted it so that I could learn more from some intelligent guys on this site. You know, my peers that I sometimes game with.

All I DID learn is that YOU think we're too inept to discuss real world issues and that you're an engineer and damn proud of it.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
By the way, if I see two 8 year olds discussing politics and the presidency out on the swingset....

....what business do I have going out and telling them to stop talking about Obama and get back onto Optimus Prime?

Let us intellectual midgets talk about what we want to. Thank you.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

ph34r — GMT

Deadshane1 wrote:Umm, I just posted a video for discussion...I didnt claim anyone should learn from it. In fact, I posted it so that I could learn more from some intelligent guys on this site. You know, my peers that I sometimes game with.

All I DID learn is that YOU think we're too inept to discuss real world issues and that you're an engineer and damn proud of it.

Sorry, we must have mixed up "should" and "could" along the way. I don't think that you think that we should all learn from this. I do however think that you think that we can learn from this, like you just said. This is where I disagree with you.

EDIT: Also I think that you do have something in that this video definitely raised awareness about some issues or perceived issues. However I think that believing any of this video does way more harm than good.

Also yeah, I'm proud of engineering in general. We design ways to make people's lives better, which I am all for.

Deadshane1 wrote:By the way, if I see two 8 year olds discussing politics and the presidency out on the swingset....

....what business do I have going out and telling them to stop talking about Obama and get back onto Optimus Prime?

Let us intellectual midgets talk about what we want to. Thank you.

I wouldn't compare us all to 8 year olds. I think we are perfectly capable of discussing issues.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Deadshane1 — GMT

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

dogma — GMT

ph34r wrote:
I am also strongly willing to bet that in a "being social" contest, I would run you to the ground.

This was said on a website dedicated to Gamesworkshop products.

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ph34r wrote:I think you and I both know that there are plenty of things that Dakkaites are knowledgeable about and can discuss.

Just not "how shall we reorder the world government, and why".

Why not?

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Deadshane1 — GMT

ph34r wrote:

Deadshane1 wrote:By the way, if I see two 8 year olds discussing politics and the presidency out on the swingset....

....what business do I have going out and telling them to stop talking about Obama and get back onto Optimus Prime?

Let us intellectual midgets talk about what we want to. Thank you.
I wouldn't compare us all to 8 year olds. I think we are perfectly capable of discussing issues.

I was citing an example.

Must everything be SLOWLY spelled out for you?

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

rubiksnoob — GMT

dogma wrote:
ph34r wrote:
I am also strongly willing to bet that in a "being social" contest, I would run you to the ground.

This was said on a website dedicated to Gamesworkshop products.

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ph34r wrote:I think you and I both know that there are plenty of things that Dakkaites are knowledgeable about and can discuss.

Just not "how shall we reorder the world government, and why".

Why not?

Because we aren't engineers! LEARN YOUR PLACE, CHILD.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

SilverMK2 — GMT

WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE SEXY ALIENS?!?!

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

ph34r — GMT

dogma wrote:This was said on a website dedicated to Gamesworkshop products.

Believe it or not a lot of GW fans are actually pretty normal people. In fact I would say that GW games have way more normal people playing them than some other hobbies I have, like MtG or video games. This is from my experience.

Again I'll admit that it was in poor form of me to call someone out as a "nonsocial that guy", but given what he'd just slung at me I'd hope one might understand a certain amount of frustration.

dogma wrote:
ph34r wrote:I think you and I both know that there are plenty of things that Dakkaites are knowledgeable about and can discuss.

Just not "how shall we reorder the world government, and why".

Why not?

The issues presented in the video are very real, and the ideas presented are very bad. They are concepts/wishlists/whatever that would significantly effect the lives of literally everyone, for the worse. I am not in support of thinking that we have the necessary skills to plan the new world order.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

rubiksnoob — GMT

We all already think about them too much, Silver.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

ph34r — GMT

Deadshane1 wrote:I was citing an example.

Must everything be SLOWLY spelled out for you?

Gotcha, because I'm slowed haha mega burn high five bro!

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Deadshane1 — GMT

I have to admit, I am a little jealous of Ph34r's engineer status...

What guy wouldn't want to drive a train and wear one of those silly hats?

Wooo Wooooooo!

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

ph34r — GMT

rubiksnoob wrote:Because we aren't engineers! LEARN YOUR PLACE, CHILD.

Not even a lowly engineer such as me can plan the new world order. You need at least a conspiracy for that.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Deadshane1 wrote:I have to admit, I am a little jealous of Ph34r's engineer status...

What guy wouldn't want to drive a train and wear one of those silly hats?

Dude driving a train would be sick, but my dream job is to be the protagonist from Dead Space.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

dogma — GMT

ph34r wrote:Believe it or not a lot of GW fans are actually pretty normal people.

Normal people don't postulate "contests" of socialization.

ph34r wrote:
The issues presented in the video are very real, and the ideas presented are very bad. They are concepts/wishlists/whatever that would significantly effect the lives of literally everyone, for the worse. I am not in support of thinking that we have the necessary skills to plan the new world order.

The issues in the video are mostly fabricated. The sort of things people whine about when they're teenagers, and then realize follow from the human condition. We can talk about transhumanism, but that's boring because its basically invoking Crystal Dragon Jesus.

Either way, no one is talking about doing anything other than discussing these things, which leaves me (and my pending political science PhD, since we're dropping qualifications) to wonder why we're worrying about physical consequences.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Monster Rain — GMT

dogma wrote:Crystal Dragon Jesus.

May the Crone grant us wisdom.

Seriously, is there a more fun site than tvtropes? I can spend hours there if I'm not careful.

Re:Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Mr Hyena — GMT

I'm a final year Biology student (Parasitology) at University and I don't honestly see how this can work. I assume on an engineering basis its impossible as said before; but on a biological basis its even more impossible.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

ph34r — GMT

dogma wrote:Normal people don't postulate "contests" of socialization.

Normal people also don't say "If someone is acting like a jerk, and gets called on it, the fault is with the person who is being a jerk not the one that points out their antisocial and frankly embarrassing to watch behavior."

But this is the internet, and if Monster Rain thinks it's okay to start dissing, I'm going to burn him back. Maybe it was too mean, but I have a pretty high level of "don't care" on this matter.

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Mr Hyena wrote:I'm a final year Biology student (Parasitology) at University and I don't honestly see how this can work. I assume on an engineering basis its impossible as said before; but on a biological basis its even more impossible.

Yep, the thing is quite often people who want sweeping changes are uninformed on the thing they want to change.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

dogma — GMT

ph34r wrote:Normal people also don't say "If someone is acting like a jerk, and gets called on it, the fault is with the person who is being a jerk not the one that points out their antisocial and frankly embarrassing to watch behavior."

But this is the internet, and if Monster Rain thinks it's okay to start dissing, I'm going to burn him back. Maybe it was too mean, but I have a pretty high level of "don't care" on this matter.

Well, the issue wasn't that it was mean, so much as it was:

A: Not funny, you can say just about anything if its funny.

B: An odd reaction given that the initial insult was what one might call "banter" from a poster known to banter.

C: Dripping with irony. Delicious, delicious irony.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Monster Rain — GMT

ph34r wrote:
dogma wrote:Normal people don't postulate "contests" of socialization.
Normal people also don't say "If someone is acting like a jerk, and gets called on it, the fault is with the person who is being a jerk not the one that points out their antisocial and frankly embarrassing to watch behavior."

Yup, and if the description of said person's behavior as being "jerk like" is accurate, then that statement is 100% true.

You realize that if you hadn't insulted Deadshane1 and the entire forum without provocation and then proceeded to troll the thread into oblivion we wouldn't be even having this conversation, right? Either way, I'm going to stop responding to you in hopes that the OP's thread can get back on track.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

ph34r — GMT

dogma wrote:Well, the issue wasn't that it was mean, so much as it was:

A: Not funny, you can say just about anything if its funny.

B: An odd reaction given that the initial insult was what one might call "banter" from a poster known to banter.

C: Dripping with irony. Delicious, delicious irony.

The internet is not socializing. Nothing one talks about with random strangers on the internet will impact how sociable they actually are. I've got nobody to impress on here, and care zero if someone on this forum does not like me.

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Monster Rain wrote:Yup, and if the description of said person's behavior as being "jerk like" is accurate, then that statement is 100% true.

You realize that if you hadn't insulted Deadshane1 and the entire forum without provocation and then proceeded to troll the thread into oblivion we wouldn't be even having this conversation, right? Either way, I'm going to stop responding to you in hopes that the OP's thread can get back on track.

Hahaha, I love it when you make things up. I never insulted the entire forum. This forum is awesome, as are 99.99% of its denizens. I've certainly insulted you, as you are just so easy to insult what with your throwing out insults and logical fallacies like candy. You probably deserve a fair bit more insulting, so feel free to imagine ways in which I might make fun of all your insecurities.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

dogma — GMT

ph34r wrote:The internet is not socializing. Nothing one talks about with random strangers on the internet will impact how sociable they actually are. I've got nobody to impress on here, and care zero if someone on this forum does not like me.

Well, unless this is some cruel brain-in-a-vat experiment there are people responding to my words, which entails social interaction, so I'm not really sure what you're on about (that's a lie).

Either way, you seem to care enough to engage in a thread that has become largely about the opinions others hold about you, and even to state that you don't care. The funny thing is that, unless you're a sociopath (and often even then), everyone cares about what other people think of them. Its a survival response in terms of society, and basally in terms of determining whether or not thing X wants to eat you, or rollick through the idyllic fields.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Karon — GMT

ph34r wrote:Normal people also don't say "If someone is acting like a jerk, and gets called on it, the fault is with the person who is being a jerk not the one that points out their antisocial and frankly embarrassing to watch behavior."

But this is the internet, and if Monster Rain thinks it's okay to start dissing, I'm going to burn him back. Maybe it was too mean, but I have a pretty high level of "don't care" on this matter.

Seriously though, let the OP live with his fantasies, and stop insulting eachother.

This thread has lost all discussion value due to trolling and just general dickery.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

murdog — GMT

Which is too bad, these are very important topics that should be addressed, and by everyone. The video is just an entry point to discussion. It doesn't matter who is discussing it or where, how intelligent they are, their academic qualifications, whether they push toy soldiers around the table-top or not, etc. What matters is building a better world, and if it takes some far-out thoughts to get the ball rolling, then lets have 'em. Its called brainstorming!

Looking around at the world today, I can't help but feel that some fundamental changes are coming in the way we live on this planet. It will be a combination of us choosing to change our systems and change being forced upon us. Climate-change, wealth imbalance, commercialization of lifeforms, ludicrous levels of weaponry and warmaking - the list goes on, and there are alot of things that need change because they are unsustainable in the long run.

That kind of change will be bottom-up: moms and dads and sons and daughters will demand of our leaders that things be done diffently. It won't have anything to do with 'phd-level topics', but with how everyone lives their daily lives. Did the people in Egypt or Libya who faced down bullets all have phd's? No, but they imagined a different world, and put their lives on the line to bring it about.

Now maybe I'll watch the video I'll get back to you

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

ph34r — GMT

dogma wrote:
ph34r wrote:The internet is not socializing. Nothing one talks about with random strangers on the internet will impact how sociable they actually are. I've got nobody to impress on here, and care zero if someone on this forum does not like me.

Well, unless this is some cruel brain-in-a-vat experiment there are people responding to my words, which entails social interaction, so I'm not really sure what you're on about (that's a lie).

Either way, you seem to care enough to engage in a thread that has become largely about the opinions others hold about you, and even to state that you don't care. The funny thing is that, unless you're a sociopath (and often even then), everyone cares about what other people think of them. Its a survival response in terms of society, and basally in terms of determining whether or not thing X wants to eat you, or rollick through the idyllic fields.

It was probably stretching the truth to say that I care "zero" about what others think about me on the internet, but believe me, the amount that I care that people like me in real life, face to face situations is on a whole different level. And it's true that technically any sort of interaction is socialization, but I would not call real life interaction and internet stranger interaction nearly the same.
Of course this is a brain-in-a-vat experiment.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

murdog wrote:Which is too bad, these are very important topics that should be addressed, and by everyone. The video is just an entry point to discussion. It doesn't matter who is discussing it or where, how intelligent they are, their academic qualifications, whether they push toy soldiers around the table-top or not, etc. What matters is building a better world, and if it takes some far-out thoughts to get the ball rolling, then lets have 'em. Its called brainstorming!

Looking around at the world today, I can't help but feel that some fundamental changes are coming in the way we live on this planet. It will be a combination of us choosing to change our systems and change being forced upon us. Climate-change, wealth imbalance, commercialization of lifeforms, ludicrous levels of weaponry and warmaking - the list goes on, and there are alot of things that need change because they are unsustainable in the long run.

That kind of change will be bottom-up: moms and dads and sons and daughters will demand of our leaders that things be done diffently. It won't have anything to do with 'phd-level topics', but with how everyone lives their daily lives. Did the people in Egypt or Libya who faced down bullets all have phd's? No, but they imagined a different world, and put their lives on the line to bring it about.

Now maybe I'll watch the video I'll get back to you

What is most important is that while yes, the video is indeed a good entry to discussion about issues, some of which the video presents actually exist. However, the video does more harm than good, as all the ways it proposes to "fix" perceived "problems" are actually actively bad.

If we get a bit more focused than the video, and get to the topic of actual, real problems, I'm sure that we could have a productive discussion. Just not "so guys, let's debate and decide whether or not reorganizing the world everything is good or bad, on an internet forum".

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

dogma — GMT

ph34r wrote:....but I would not call real life interaction and internet stranger interaction nearly the same.

You just did.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

murdog — GMT

I'm just not sure what you are complaining about. If you don't agree that this is a good place for this discussion, or that the discussion is worthwhile, why are you in here? Maybe some of us do want to 'debate and decide reorganizing the world everything is good or bad on an internet forum'. If you don't agree, find a different thread to post in. You are ruining the thread.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

ph34r — GMT

dogma wrote:
ph34r wrote:....but I would not call real life interaction and internet stranger interaction nearly the same.

You just did.

Do you not understand what I said? Though technically by the definition of the word both could be considered similar, in practice I assert that they are not nearly the same. Does that make sense?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

murdog wrote:I'm just not sure what you are complaining about. If you don't agree that this is a good place for this discussion, or that the discussion is worthwhile, why are you in here? Maybe some of us do want to 'debate and decide reorganizing the world everything is good or bad on an internet forum'. If you don't agree, find a different thread to post in. You are ruining the thread.

The thread was ruined at post 1. But hey, if you actually believe the nutcase in the OP's video, feel free to make another thread about it.

EDIT: And the reason that I post in this thread even though I don't think that this is a good place to discuss reordering the entirety of human everything on earth? I am knowledgeable enough to know that the person in Zeitgeist is completely off-base. I am not knowledgeable enough to talk about how one might implement his ideas, luckily his ideas are all blatantly terrible so I don't need to go into detail about how to make them all workable.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Deadshane1 — GMT

ph34r wrote:The thread was ruined at post 1. But hey, if you actually believe the nutcase in the OP's video, feel free to make another thread about it.

LOLWTFBBQ! I post a video for discussion, you come in and totally derail it, then tell peeps if they want to they can go make another thread about it and discuss it there? That's logic.

.....luckily his ideas are all blatantly terrible so I don't need to go into detail about how to make them all workable.

You havent gone into any detail. Your idea of condemning this entire video is equivalant to saying "it's stupid" with no reason why.

BTW...if you watch the video, the whole thing is NOT just about creating a new way of life...it's also an analysis of the human condition, politics, money and several other things.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

dogma — GMT

ph34r wrote:Do you not understand what I said? Though technically by the definition of the word both could be considered similar, in practice I assert that they are not nearly the same. Does that make sense?

Yes, I understand that you want to evade the consequences of your actions.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

ph34r — GMT

dogma wrote:
ph34r wrote:Do you not understand what I said? Though technically by the definition of the word both could be considered similar, in practice I assert that they are not nearly the same. Does that make sense?

Yes, I understand that you want to evade the consequences of your actions.

Haha funny joke

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Deadshane1 wrote:LOLWTFBBQ! I post a video for discussion, you come in and totally derail it, then tell peeps if they want to they can go make another thread about it and discuss it there? That's logic.

Well, he figured that this thread was ruined. If it is making a new one would solve that problem eh?

Deadshane1 wrote:You havent gone into any detail. Your idea of condemning this entire video is equivalant to saying "it's stupid" with no reason why.

BTW...if you watch the video, the whole thing is NOT just about creating a new way of life...it's also an analysis of the human condition, politics, money and several other things.

I thought I posted a pretty reasonable summary of why I think that the points you described from the video are wrong or exaggerated as problems, back on page 2

If you don't think that reasoning is good enough, I'd be okay with going into more detail if there is a particular point that you think is a valid problem. We might even agree, after all some of the things the video describes actually are problems, they just don't require solving by the methods Zeitgeist suggests.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

murdog — GMT

ph34r wrote:The thread was ruined at post 1. But hey, if you actually believe the nutcase in the OP's video, feel free to make another thread about it.

EDIT: And the reason that I post in this thread even though I don't think that this is a good place to discuss reordering the entirety of human everything on earth? I am knowledgeable enough to know that the person in Zeitgeist is completely off-base. I am not knowledgeable enough to talk about how one might implement his ideas, luckily his ideas are all blatantly terrible so I don't need to go into detail about how to make them all workable.

So. You've responded to the summary of the topic. Even though you thought it wasn't worth discussing right from the first post. Thats because you think all the ideas are blatantly terrible. Also, you aren't knowledgeable enough to talk in detail about how they would be implemented anyways. Are you done here then?

I didn't figure the thread was ruined, I said you are ruining it.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

ph34r — GMT

murdog wrote:So. You've responded to the summary of the topic. Even though you thought it wasn't worth discussing right from the first post. Thats because you think all the ideas are blatantly terrible. Also, you aren't knowledgeable enough to talk in detail about how they would be implemented anyways. Are you done here then?

I didn't figure the thread was ruined, I said you are ruining it.

1. Yes
2. I honestly can say that I did not think anyone would actually defend the person from the Zeitgeist video. Apparently I was wrong
3. Yes, they are. Do you disagree?
4. Almost nobody is. That's why his ideas are so terrible.
5. I don't know, are you?

6. Boo hoo wah. People have opinions that differ from yours. People justify their opinions and you complain that they ruin threads. What would you rather do here, wildly speculate about how we should completely revamp the human race while none of us has any idea what the feth we are talking about?

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Cerebrium — GMT

Without getting involved in this argument, this video is nuttier than a squirrel turd.

Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

Ahtman — GMT

This seems to be a movement in the same sense that what I had for dinner will soon be a movement.

Re:Zeitgeist-Moving Forward

reds8n — GMT

I'm sure this has been most informative for everyone.