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Nordland Marines 
9pts each

M 4
Ws 3
Bs 4
S 3
T 3
W 1
I 3
A 1
Ld 7

Weapons: Handgun, Hand weapon

Equipment: Light armour, extra ammunition.

Extra ammunition: the squad may re-roll a single failed to hit roll.

Special rules: Skilled swimmers, Cold-blooded, State troops, Weapon variety.

Skilled swimmers: the unit treats water as clear terrain, but cannot shoot the next turn, because wet gunpowder does not work.

Cold-blooded: The unit does not panic, if a nearby friendly unit breaks, also they are immune to terror, which is treated as fear against Nordland Marines.

Weapon variety: the unit must each turn nominate the weapon it is using. Units can't use Hand weapons and handguns at the same time.

Unit composition: 10+ 

One marine can be upgraded to a privateer with 10pts. Privateers have +1 Bs.

The privateer may exchange his handgun for:
Hochland long rifle 20pts
Repeater Handgun 15pts


One marine can be upgraded to a Standard Bearer with 15pts

One marine can be upgraded to a Musician for 5pts

All marines can have Heavy armour for 3pts each.

All marines can replace their handguns with:
Shield 1pts each
Additional hand weapon 3pts each
Brace pistol 3pts each

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/396479/3311514.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/396479/3311514.page GMT You get +1BS and a boatload of rules for 1 point.

IMO, BS4 should be 11 points per model. This gives you more hits per point at long range, and slightly less at short range. Then you could argue that the extra rules (no panic, 1 re-roll to hit, and reduced terror effect) is a trade off with having less wounds; or maybe make them work 1 point more.

On the upgrades, heavy armor isn't that good; on a 11-12 point model, I'd be fine with +1 point.
Brace of pistols count as Additional hand weapons in close combat, so nobody would ever want to take the weapons when you get both effects for the same cost.
I'd say take shields for 1 point (not giving up handgun), additional hand weapon for 2 (not giving up handgun), or brace of pistols for 2 (giving up hand gun).

I'd have them be either a special or a rare choice in empire armies. They are too good for core (compared to empires other core).


-Matt



]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/396479/3311799.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/396479/3311799.page GMT
-Marines aren't marksmen. Marines are marines. They usually use shorter barreled weapons which are portable. Marksmen are Marksmen and you want them far from combat. BS4 is going to cost a lot more!
-Just make them River Striders. I know you're trying to be realistic, but it's much much simpler. And the game isn't amazingly realistic. I.e., reloading a black powder gun at the same speed as someone swining an axe at your head.
-Cold Blooded is already the exact name of a special rule for Lizardmen. Just make them Immune to Psychology. It's about the same without the need to create a new rule.
-Marines don't wear heavy armor. Try swimming in platemail. They probably shouldn't even have light armor (Handgunners don't).
-Weapon Variety I don't understand. You're not going to get 2 attacks anyway, one is ranged and one is close combat. You don't have to elect. If they only have the handgun, they'll still use generic "hand weapons" if they charge or get charged.

You basically made Handgunners which are better Handgunners and also have armor and better rules and better BS (which is massive). No, they aren't state troops, but so what?

The BS alone is worth ~5 pts, or half what a Handgunner champ costs for the same 1BS (though can handle challenges). Not to mention the other rules and armor.

What are you trying to make? Navy SEALs? If that's the case, they shouldn't be wearing armor. They shouldn't be better snipers than snipers. They shouldn't be better in every way and only cost a single point more.

If you want to make them SEALs, keep the special rules, lower the BS, get rid of the ammo rule (the best snipers with the long rifles aren't that good), and give them some more movement or Scouts or Vanguard. They also need to cost a bunch more. And be Specials or Rares.

But unless I'm really missing something, these guys are WAY better than Handgunners for 1 pt more.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/396479/3311830.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/396479/3311830.page GMT
This changes alot.


The brace pistol idea is good, Also immune to psychology could work better, although immune to fear/panic would be better (since even the Swedish and Finns are afraid of something).

The point cost is a bit low, but the equipment is a bit more costly.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/396479/3312777.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/396479/3312777.page GMT
Making the equipment more expensive only matters if you buy equipment. The base unit is much better for cost. If you bought 300pts of Handgunners vs. 300pts of Marines, the Marines would excel in every way and absolutely slaughter the Handgunners.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/396479/3315036.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/396479/3315036.page GMT