<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!!"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net 1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!! atm. I am on a 5 win streak, but people are starting to relise my tactic. Any ideas how i can alter this list to carry on with my win streak.

HQ
Librarian
- Might of the Titan
- Smite
- Quicksilver

ELITE
Purifiers x10
-Incinerators x2
- Rhino

TROOPS
Strike Squad x10
-Psilencers x2
- Rhino

Teminators x5
-Brotherhood Banner

FAST ATTACK
Storm Raven Gunship
-Multi Melta's
-Assualt Cannons

HEAVY SUPPORT
Dreadknight
-Heavy Incinerator
-Gatling Psilencer
-Teleport (the 30" thing)

Dreadnought
-Close Combat arm with built in Storm Bolter
-Twin Linked Heavy Bolter

My tactic ATM,
I will firstly teleport my dreadknight 30" and burn and shoot any hordes or infantry that look like they can take out my tanks. I could even burn the rear of tanks (S6 Heavy Incinerator).
Then storing my dreadnought, librarian and terminators in the storm raven and driving them up. They will then get out and assualt.
The units in rhinos drive up and finish the rest that survived the attack from the terminators, librarian, dreadnought and dreadknight.

I am open to any ideas ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3389022.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3389022.page GMT 1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!!
The dude with Grey Knight wrote:
HQ
Librarian
- Might of the Titan
- Smite
- Quicksilver


Smite might not be a fantastic choice especially with all the CC powers you have. I'd go for something like Sanctuary or something over it. Servo skulls might be usefull.

ELITE
Purifiers x10
-Incinerators x2
- Rhino


Ehhhh....I'd expect this vehicle to die turn 1 every game as without their vehicle, they aren't huge threat. Considering you pretty much have ZERO anti-tank at range (Stormraven is the only reliable one), you'll probably want pyscannons over the incinerators......4 of them.

TROOPS
Strike Squad x10
-Psilencers x2
- Rhino


Same....I'd suggest psycannons.

Teminators x5
-Brotherhood Banner


Drop the Banner. Not worth it. Put in at least one halbred and at least one hammer. An incinerator would be nice if they are going in the storm raven.

FAST ATTACK
Storm Raven Gunship
-Multi Melta's
-Assualt Cannons


Okay, don't expect it to live long though. This would be my first target....followed by the purifier rhino. If you lose those two, you're screwed.

HEAVY SUPPORT
Dreadknight
-Heavy Incinerator
-Gatling Psilencer
-Teleport (the 30" thing)


Waaaaaay too expensive. I'd drop the psilencer. Another one-trick pony. I don't know what kind of armies you play against, but at 1500 if this thing should up at my front lines on turn 1 I have more than enough firepower to drop it and still have plenty left over to kill the storm raven.


Dreadnought
-Close Combat arm with built in Storm Bolter
-Twin Linked Heavy Bolter


Useless build IMO, but cheap I guess.

I will firstly teleport my dreadknight 30" and burn and shoot any hordes or infantry that look like they can take out my tanks. I could even burn the rear of tanks (S6 Heavy Incinerator).

And then it will die the next turn.

Then storing my dreadnought, librarian and terminators in the storm raven and driving them up. They will then get out and assualt.


If you get first turn (and even then your termies can't assault that turn and will have their ride blown up). If not, then it'll probably die.

The units in rhinos drive up and finish the rest that survived the attack from the terminators, librarian, dreadnought and dreadknight.


Unfortunately against a half-decent opponent, I see the initial attack failing miserably most of the time. All you have hitting that first turn is a heavy bolter, the dreadknight's guns, and a handful of stormbolter.......that honestly isn't very threatening IMO.

You're going to need stuff that hits harder than that for a first-turn rush.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3390462.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3390462.page GMT 1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!!
The dude with Grey Knight wrote:
HQ
Librarian
- Might of the Titan
- Smite
- Quicksilver
Librarians make great commanders when you have a vehicle that can transport them. That said, your power selection could use a slight adjustment. Might of Titan is probably one of the best powers in the game, however Smite is not terribly useful as a Psychic Shooting Attack attached to a character that really wants to be in melee. Additionally, there is no reason that a Librarian should have Quicksilver if the unit he is with can take Halberds at a reasonable price. I really only find the power useful when fielding Paladins, who want to have a mixture of weapons and usually more Swords than anything to improve their saves. The combination I find most effective is Might of Titan, Shrouding, and Sanctuary. Might stacks with Hammerhand, and so you cast Might on your turn along with Hammerhand, and the unit casts Hammerhand a second time (which stacks with itself), giving you Strength 7 and 2D6 Armor Penetration. Shroiding protects your Stormraven, giving it a 3+ cover save when it moves Flat-Out, and it's cast on your opponents turn, as is Sanctuary, so you can cast them on the same game turn as you cast the other two.

ELITE
Purifiers x10
-Incinerators x2 Why Incinerators? They have an inherent ability that deals with hordes quite well, so I would think Psycannons to crack open vehicles before an assault might be a better option.
- Rhino

TROOPS
Strike Squad x10
-Psilencers x2 Worst. Weapons. Ever. Seriously, Incinerators are a thousand times better, and Psycannons are a billion times better. Psilencers are just terrible.
- Rhino
I think I'd put a Daemon Hammer in the unit to deal with MC's and vehicles. One of the main problems with Grey Knights is that they lack the ability to deal reliable damage to AV14 at range, so making that up with a S10 Thunder Hammer would greatly improve your damage output.

Teminators x5
-Brotherhood Banner
Stay away from Terminators. They are statistically no more durable than Strike Squads, and they are less mobile and have far less firepower. It takes 90 Bolter shots to kill 10 PAGKs (a full Strike Squad), and the same 90 Bolter shots to kill 5 Terminators. Even with a 4++ save it takes the same number of Power Weapon attacks to kill the Terminators as it does to kill the PAGKs. In addition, the Strike Squad has twice as many Bolter shots, and the same number of Psycannon shots (assuming you take the Psycannons, because you should!) on the move, or twice as many if they stand still, and Strike Squads can be transported in Rhinos. Literally, the units just do not compare. Strike Squads will outperform Terminators in just about every aspect.

FAST ATTACK
Storm Raven Gunship
-Multi Melta's
-Assualt Cannons

HEAVY SUPPORT
Dreadknight
-Heavy Incinerator
-Gatling Psilencer
-Teleport (the 30" thing)
Trade the Gatling Psilencer for a Nemesis Daemon Hammer. It gives you S10 attacks at Initiative 4, and another model that can shred vehicles. The Heavy incinerator is perfectly acceptable for anti-infantry firepower, but the Gatling Psilencer is a waste of points unless you are playing against Daemons.

Dreadnought
-Close Combat arm with built in Storm Bolter
-Twin Linked Heavy Bolter
If you are going to take a Dreadnought in this fashion, you should consider giving it an Assault Cannon and Psybolt Ammo. The Psybolt Ammo will affect both the Assault Cannon and your built in Storm Bolter, and the Dread can ride on the Stormraven and provide counter-assault to whichever unit is being transported.


Overall I think your list has a decent format, but needs some adjustments to fit the right parts into place. One of the problems I'm noticing is your total lack of ranged firepower, though you DO somewhat make that up with speed. I'm not so sure the Dreadknight is a wise choice in this list because he is so expensive, and you could get a pair of Psyflmean Dreads for near the same cost and greatly improve ranged damage. At 1,750 he would make an excellent addition, but with the Stormraven in the list, and an expensive melee unit like the Purifiers, I think the Dreadknight should be removed to allocate the points elsewhere. Also, I would swap the Terminators for a pair of smaller Strike Squads in Razorbacks to give you some additional scoring units.

Here's an example:

Librarian (Might, Shrouding, Sanctuary) - 165
8 Purifiers (2x Psycannon, 5x Halberd, MC Hammer) - 232
10 Strike (2x Psycannon, MC Hammer, Rhino) - 275
5 Strike (Psycannon, Razorback w/ Psybolt Ammo) - 160
5 Strike (Psycannon, Razorback w/ Psybolt Ammo) - 160
Stormraven (TL Assault Cannon, TL Multi-Melta, Hurricane Bolters) - 235
Dreadnought (2x TL Autocannon, Psybolt Ammo) - 135
Dreadnought (2x TL Autocannon, Psybolt Ammo) - 135
Total 1,497

I had 43 points left at the end so I gave the Stormraven Hurricane Bolters (which it can fire in addition to everything else when moving 12") and Master Crafted the Daemon Hammers in the list. You could instead give the Librarian a Warding Stave or something if you wanted, or upgrade a few weapons here and there.

Overall I think this list has more punch to it, and it looks quite a lot like the list I run at 1,500 using Purifiers and Crowe, and that list does well enough. Hope that's the kind of advice you are looking for.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3390517.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3390517.page GMT Re:1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!!
I notice both of you said I had a lack of fire power, i notice that as well. I do use my storm raven and dreadknight to take out anything that can hurt my tanks turn one, and generally people shoot the heavy and high strength guns at my Dreadknight (two turns of him and your doomed).
I have a dreadknight like tht to be used as the unit in my army that people get scared of and shoot like crazy at it, and many people do. (I have once held a deamon prince in combat with it for 2 turns, and in the end i won that combat).
The dreadknight gets strength 10 attacks anyway, it has two dreadnought close combat arms (5 attacks on the charge ), this will double his strength.
You guys are right i saying my army is rubbish against armies with high strengthed guns (such as Imperial Guard and Tau), but I have lost both my stormraven and my purifier rhino turn 1 and still won the game (so it is possible).
I like to be quick, and finish the opponent before he can think about destroying me.
Any further advice on a fast list that i can work with??????????

Also, @Aldarionn. The list that your wrote, why dont you give the librarian quicksilver, so he's Initiative 10 (along with the unit) instead of 1+ to cover (shrouding)???]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3400323.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3400323.page GMT Re:1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!!
The dude with Grey Knight wrote:
The dreadknight gets strength 10 attacks anyway, it has two dreadnought close combat arms (5 attacks on the charge ), this will double his strength.


Nope. A dreadknight is not a walker so he doesn't get the x2 strength bonus from the doomfists. FAQ also confirms this. Sorry, but if you want S10, you need the hammer.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3400923.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3400923.page GMT Re:1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!!
Actually if you want S10 you need the Thunderhammer, not the Sword.

I disagree with the one trick pony nature of your list, if you are playing regular opponents it could be a problem, but in tournaments most people arent used to things like a shunting Dreadknight. However with only 1 you will find it dies on turn 1.

Ok starting at the top.

Librarian; Would look at dropping smite & Quicksilver for Shrouding & Sanctuary. If he is in the Stormraven Shrouding will increase your Flat out Cover save to a 3+.

Purifiers;
I like these guys, agree with previous comments though that without their tank they die, so need to keep it hidden. Also if you like the Incinerators, why have only 2? You can get 4 in there for the same price! Personnally Psycannons would probably be better unless you are putting them in the Stormraven (which is an option).

Strike Squad - Psycannons... always Psycannons on these guys, at least then you can pop mid level tanks on the move.

Terminators - Brotherhood Banner - I like this but if you need the points the Psycannon is better. General load out for my 5 is Daemonhammer & 4 Force Halberds.

Stormraven - Drop the Assault Cannon for a Twin Linked Lascannon, we lack firepower and an extra anti tank will rarely go amiss.

Dreadknight - Drop the Psilencer, imho you would be better just keeping the Incinerator & Teleport. To be honest it will die on turn 1, but if it does what you want it to then thats fine, a second one of these guys makes opponents have some hard decisions to make.

Dreadnought - Assault Cannon & Psybolt, gives you another relentless Psycannon basically, and makes your Stormbolter ST5!

Well thats my thoughts for this!
I would look at cheapening your Dreadknight by dropping the Psilencer, swapping the Dread to an assault cannon with Psybolt (basically a Psycannon). Change the Stormraven out to Lascannons to give you that little extra anti tank.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3400999.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3400999.page GMT Re:1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!!
I had no idea that the dreadknight is only strength 6 (thanks for pointing that out Nungunz).

Thanks Kraggi, i do have a librarian in a stormraven, so now I am going to take the shrouding rule instead of smite.
However Kraggi, i am going to keep quicksilver, because striking first against Tyranids (the army i mainly go agaisnt) is usually the best move.

The brotherhood banner is really useful. +1 attack and auto physchic test for force weapons. I have seen many opponents fall short or taking on my terminator unit with librarian and winning.

My dreadnought is a forge world model, the contemptor relic model. So, i like it with the heavy bolter.

Thanks for all the advice etc given,
May the emperor be with you.....

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3404165.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3404165.page GMT Re:1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!!
The dude with Grey Knight wrote:My dreadnought is a forge world model, the contemptor relic model. So, i like it with the heavy bolter.


Still doesn't mean that the weapon doensn't suck. 2x TLAC is the best and only viable choice for dreads IMHO.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3404176.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3404176.page GMT 1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!! imho doesn't look as nice as the heavy bolter. Not to mention, if i take the assualt cannon i will be going over 1500pts (this is the limit of the club i go to).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3404217.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3404217.page GMT Re:1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!!
The Twin Linked Autocannon is all the Rage on the internet however I would prefer the ability to Kill AV14 which is why I take the Assault Cannon myself.

To be honest the guy I play has a decent amount of STR8+ shots in a turn so cover save or not your people with lots of Dreads will struggle due to how many saves they have to make each turn.

Will have a think bout what 1500 I would take, then drop a post in here for you if you like. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3404301.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3404301.page GMT 1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!!
The dude with Grey Knight wrote:The assualt cannon imho doesn't look as nice as the heavy bolter. Not to mention, if i take the assualt cannon i will be going over 1500pts (this is the limit of the club i go to).


TLAC = twin-linked autocannon FYI]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3404846.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3404846.page GMT 1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!! TLAC looks rubbish and IMHO it doesn't work as well as a heavy bolter!!!!!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3408296.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3408296.page GMT
The dude with Grey Knight wrote:Even still. A TLAC looks rubbish and IMHO it doesn't work as well as a heavy bolter!!!!!


I'd take one less shot for two more points of strength anyday of the week.




Assault Cannon isn't that much better than the TLAC at killing AV14 vehicles....sure you have a chance to pen....but it's rare and not a guarantee.

Psybolt TLAC:
Chance to Pen AV14: 0%
Chance to Glance AV14: 14.8%

Psybolt AssCan:
Chance to Pen AV14: 7.41%
Chance to Glance AV14: 3.70%


Niether of those to set-ups should be shooting at AV14 anyway. If you want to kill AV14 with GK, take melta weapons (henchmen or stormravens or landraiders) or just hit them in CC. It's the only reliable way they have of dealing with high AV.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3411885.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3411885.page GMT 1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!! ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3412545.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3412545.page GMT 1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!!
Nungunz wrote:
I'd take one less shot for two more points of strength anyday of the week.




Assault Cannon isn't that much better than the TLAC at killing AV14 vehicles....sure you have a chance to pen....but it's rare and not a guarantee.

Psybolt TLAC:
Chance to Pen AV14: 0%
Chance to Glance AV14: 14.8%

Psybolt AssCan:
Chance to Pen AV14: 7.41%
Chance to Glance AV14: 3.70%

Niether of those to set-ups should be shooting at AV14 anyway. If you want to kill AV14 with GK, take melta weapons (henchmen or stormravens or landraiders) or just hit them in CC. It's the only reliable way they have of dealing with high AV.


I reilably deal with AV14 through Psycannons as I have chosen to play that way.

I have just quickly done your maths again as it seems a bit off

Each weapon (including the chance to hit and reloads has the following chance of rolling a 6.

So TLAC: 59% Chance to Glance

Assault Cannon: 44% chance to roll a 6.

But then the Assault Cannon has rending, and on a 1 or 2 you get a glance, on a 3 or more you will get a Penentrate (7+6+2=15)

So the Assault Cannons Stats for a turn firing is:

14.8% Chance to Glance
29.6% Chance to Penetrate.

The Assault cannon has a lower chance of doing something to a Landraider or AV14 vehicle, but only by 15% (roughly), but if it does something it is actually more likely to Penetrate than glance.

Just food for thought, and these figured were done on the fly at work. The Stats for the Assault Cannon are the same for any relentless or Stationary Psycannon. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3412675.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3412675.page GMT 1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!!
The dude with Grey Knight wrote:Even still. A TLAC looks rubbish and IMHO it doesn't work as well as a heavy bolter!!!!!

ummm - playing a model with a loadout you like for aestetics rather than efficiency is refreshing and I applaud you for it.
Claiming the best long range choice in the codex doesn't work as well as the WORST long range choice you could make for a dread is just asinine.
I "like" it better? OK, good for you!
It "IS" better? Wrong. You couldn't be more wrong.

Do what you think is cool, that is how I roll. Just quit denying global warming based on 30 minutes of data. You lose 1 shot and gain 3 strength and 12" of range. We call that a "no brainer" in these parts. I encourage you to use the heavy bolter if you lik ethe looks of it, but don't imply that it is a GOOD choice - there are a lot of impressionable users who take all of these posts to heart.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3412686.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3412686.page GMT 1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!!
The dude with Grey Knight wrote:Even still. A TLAC looks rubbish and IMHO it doesn't work as well as a heavy bolter!!!!!


Implies that the heavy bolter is a good weapon. Btw Autocannon costs only 5 points more and it fires at S8 with psybolt ammo.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3412706.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3412706.page GMT 1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!!
Kraggi wrote:
I have just quickly done your maths again as it seems a bit off

Each weapon (including the chance to hit and reloads has the following chance of rolling a 6.

So TLAC: 59% Chance to Glance


2/3 (chance to hit) * 1/6 (chance to glance) + 1/3 * 2/3 (chance that a missed shot is successfully rerolled) * 1/6 (chance to glance) = .1481


Assault Cannon: 44% chance to roll a 6.


2/3 (chance to hit * 1/6 (chance to rend) * 1/3 (chance to glance after rending) = .0370
2/3 (chance to hit * 1/6 (chance to rend) * 2/3 (chance to pen after rending) = .0741


The Assault cannon has a lower chance of doing something to a Landraider or AV14 vehicle, but if it does something it is actually more likely to Penetrate than glance.


This is true, but I'd rather take AT weapons to do the job.



The dude with Grey Knight wrote:The thing is, i already maxed out on points, and anyway i have enough of Tank Busting gear


One multi-melta and one dreadknight (if it actually lives long enough to get into CC)? Yeah.....lots of AT right there.

How are you going to deal with lists that have something like 4-6 Chimeras, 2 Vendettas, a Hellhound, and two Russes at 1500 points? Or something like 5-8 raiders/venoms and 2-3 Ravagers (okay these are squishy and stormbolters can glance them). Or 4-6 rhinos/razorbacks and 1-3 dreads.

You asked for suggestions on the list and I still don't think you have nearly enough AT to deal with a mech list.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3413669.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3413669.page GMT 1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!!
The dude with Grey Knight wrote:The thing is, i already maxed out on points, and anyway i have enough of Tank Busting gear


Really? You must have forgot to post it in your list then, 'cause I see one long AT option (the Storm Raven) and that's it. Units are capable of taking tanks in combat but this is the reason why Orks suck so bad; you need ranged AT to get across the board in the first place.

As Nungunz has said, it lacks focus and is very ragtag. Dreadknights are good units if used in multiples and tooled, and have a list that supports them well. You haven't ticked any of these boxes so far. Same goes for Dreads, awesome when tooled right but also aren't a big threat in isolation. I'd make a choice between the two and either have two Dreadknights or have three Dreads (though I'd go for the latter as otherwise your options for AT drop again drastically). Similarly, your units are wasting potential by being tooled badly. I'd consider looking at the list Aldaarion posted in post 3#, as it keeps to the sort of list you seem to want while also being competitive.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3414657.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3414657.page GMT Re:1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!!
Really? You must have forgot to post it in your list then


@Godless-Mimicry, i have enough anti-tank stuff,
The storm Raven takes out tanks (Assualt Cannons and Multi-Melta)
The dreadnought (in close combat)
The dreadknight (S6 Flamer and in combat)
The Librarian and Terminators (Might of the Titan and two hammerhands = S7 and 2D6 armour penantration)
The Purifiers (Flamers (S6) and S5 with Hammerhand (they can take out light tanks))
The Strikes (S5 so they can take out light tanks)

This shows that everything in my list (apart from the Rhinos) have a chance out taking out tanks.
I won with this list two days ago (8 wins - 2 loses) making it a 6 win streak. The army i faced was Imperial Guard and they had 3 leman russes and 1 valkyrie. I had taken all of them out by turn 3.

If my units are not tooled badly, why have i beaten the following armies without any problems; Tyranids, Imperial Guard, Chaos, Chaos Deamons, Necrons, Space Marines and Grey Knights.

I do have the correct tools with my list, as i actually plan my game before it starts.

The fact of the matter is, my army doesn't sound all that impressive (I thought the same thing), but when in a game, it makes life hard for the opponent.

I am going to look into Aldaarion's post with great detail, and I am likely to use it in certain games.

I stick to my guns about the Dreadnought, I just don't like Autocannon's, I find them pointless, worthless and not worth the cost. It's either a heavy bolter or Assualt Cannon for me.

I understand not all my units will be used for Tank Busting, but there is a limit to how many Tanks one person will take.

I have now taken a the shrouding to make my flat out cover on my storm raven 3+, which means it is extra hard to take out. So, my storm raven doesn't often die before it can destroy something itself.

In answer to your comment about getting accross the board, thats why i shove a dreadknight in the list. I find people shot the heavy stuff at the dreadknight, this is why it has the teleporter. This allows my tanks to go up the field without any problem.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Twisted_Mister, I understand that many people will think the TLAC is better, but the TL Heavy Bolter is more effective IMHO. It's opinions that shape this world. Some people will agree with me and some won't. But, for the time being I am going to stick with the Heavy Bolter because it 'looks' better and 'plays' better for me. I will always use my army to look good. If it plays good as well (which it does), it's a bonus.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3416552.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3416552.page GMT Re:1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!! AT. For that, 2x TLAC+psybolt ammo is king (on Venerable dreads TLAC+MM is also alright).

And no, relying on CC for your AT is not good. At least take Psycannons on your Puris and Strike squads to give you some form of ranged AT.

I'd drop the Dreadknight, 200+ points for a unit that any competent player can just block with rhino's if REALLY steep. Swap it for Dreads or more PA GK.

Lib should have Shrouding, its the best power in the Codex, and for 5pts a no-brainer.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3416661.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3416661.page GMT 1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!! AT (S6 is not great AT btw) and only 2 scoring units.

Libby: in addition to what already suggested, consider warp rift, it's a good flamer template that auto-pen vehicles.
Purifiers: 2 more special weapons is ideal or do 2 squads of 5 in Razorbacks. Or run them as strikes so you have another scoring unit.
Strike: psilencer is terrible, take psycannons.
Termies: want an Incinerator or psycannon.
Dreadknight: Drop the Psilencer, get a hammer.
Dreadnought: If it is going in the Storm Raven, then pick up a Psybolt Assault Cannon or a MM. If it is walking then 2 TL-AC would be better.

Honestly, 2 Dreadknights or 3 Dreadnoughts would be better than 1 of each.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3416698.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3416698.page GMT 1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3417326.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3417326.page GMT Re:1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!! AT even more...

I'd STRONGLY suggest taking 2 Dreads with autocannons, and giving all your guys Psycannons who can get them. Would help the list out a lot.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3417337.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3417337.page GMT 1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!!
They don't look as good IMHO (TLAC), so i think im going to take some purifiers with Psycannons]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3418036.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3418036.page GMT Re:1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!!
The dude with Grey Knight wrote:@Godless-Mimicry, i have enough anti-tank stuff,
The storm Raven takes out tanks (Assualt Cannons and Multi-Melta)
The dreadnought (in close combat)
The dreadknight (S6 Flamer and in combat)
The Librarian and Terminators (Might of the Titan and two hammerhands = S7 and 2D6 armour penantration)
The Purifiers (Flamers (S6) and S5 with Hammerhand (they can take out light tanks))
The Strikes (S5 so they can take out light tanks)

This shows that everything in my list (apart from the Rhinos) have a chance out taking out tanks.


No this shows that everything in your list has a chance at taking out tanks if you get across the board and into combat, and in some cases get Psychic powers off. This isn't AT. Do you think the like of Guard aren't going to pound you with Ordinance and heavy weapons with those very tanks until you get there, and do you think they will leave the tanks forward for you to get quicker? In order to compete a list needs to be able to take out tanks with taking too many hits from them first, meaning ranged AT or a fast means of getting there. As is, the Storm Raven and whatever is in it is all you have until you hit enemy lines (and that's both assuming you go first, and he doesn't bubble wrap them).

The dude with Grey Knight wrote:I won with this list two days ago (8 wins - 2 loses) making it a 6 win streak. The army i faced was Imperial Guard and they had 3 leman russes and 1 valkyrie. I had taken all of them out by turn 3.

If my units are not tooled badly, why have i beaten the following armies without any problems; Tyranids, Imperial Guard, Chaos, Chaos Deamons, Necrons, Space Marines and Grey Knights.


The most common internet misconception; I've won some games so I and/or my list must be good. There's no bearing on how good your opponent's lists were, how good players they were, how the dice went, etc. There are too many variables that would rely on your word alone. The only valid argument of this kind is one where the results of a tournament are made known with data to support the strengths of the competitors (RHQ is a good example). Do note also that most of the armies you listed are weak against Grey Knights.

On another note, how can you argue that a PsyAmmo TLHB Dreadnought is better than a Psyfleman? 4 TL S8 are always better than 3 TL S6.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3418463.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3418463.page GMT 1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!!
I have gone against armies that have taken on my tanks and still i have taken them out.

If you don't think this army list is any good, then atleast do the nice thing and stop posting random, un-constructive critism. IMHO if it was up to you, you'd have a whole army of devastators by the way you sound (if you could tht is)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3420822.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3420822.page GMT 1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!! Firstly, Incinerators are horrid for AT. 7" range and strength 6? Does bugger all.
Secondly, we are trying to give you ideas for AT. Melee should not be your plan for AT. It can take 2-3 turns to get to the enemy and if they are hounding on you with shots I'll be surprised if you can make it there to punch a tank with strength 5 marines.
Thirdly, why do you want another Dreadknight? The play style you are using for them should have them killed outright and before they can truly be effective. They are a massive point sink in your army (if you want 2 thats a third of your army for something at will die by turn 2. Not very good spending)

You sir need to learn to take advice and learn what constructive criticism is. So finally, grab some more anti tank. get rid of your dreadknight for a dreadnought with 2 twin linked autocannons (if you use a dreadnought model and get ageis defence gear, you can use the autoguns from the turret and it looks rather nice) and PLEASE for the love of god put psycannons in there. psycannons are assault or heavy weapons at STR7. Thats wonderful! They can pop light vehicles with ease and can put a possible destructive dent in higher AV vehicles.

Please dude, listen to advice and dont shrug it off by saying "but this has worked before" (because if you go against more competitive builds with more experienced players you will be tabled) or "but I prefer the look of this gun" (because looks dont mean anything. If you want a STR 5 gun, get psybolt ammo on your squads. heavy bolters are not particularly effective on a dreadnought. It makes a threatening metal machine that has great antitank potential and lowers it to an anti infantry nuisance.)

Please do not dismiss our ideas, we want to improve what you have to make your list better and make that 8-2 into an 18-2]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3421568.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3421568.page GMT 1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!!
I collected Tyranids for most of my gaming history, and they took out tanks in combat. IMHO shooting attacks are useful, but combat makes a world of a difference.

Remember, S6 can still harm a low armoured tank, and considering my dreadknight can go behind a tank with his flamer, and the purifiers can drive up in a tank, it usually works.

I am not dismissing any ideas (i have already taken shrouding instead of smite). But, i believe i have enough AT, i understand not all of it is long range, but atleast i have some of it.

I am hoping to get 18-2, but only time will tell....]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3423612.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3423612.page GMT 1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!!
The dude with Grey Knight wrote:I collected Tyranids for most of my gaming history, and they took out tanks in combat. IMHO shooting attacks are useful, but combat makes a world of a difference.


Your argument is invalid, Hive Guards take out tanks and the rest of the army charges the units whose tanks were blown to pieces. GK rolls exactly the same, dreads take out transports and purifiers etc charges the units inside.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3423860.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3423860.page GMT 1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!! Tyranids, okay, I can understand it for them, but GK dont work as well as them in combat. I realize STR 6 can get a rhino with mass amounts of luck, but you shouldnt count on that for AT. If the Dreadknight was allowed to assault after shunting, I would consider him to be an okay AT, but he cant (can only shoot just as if he deepstriked in). I urge you to take some Psycannons in your army, just because they are cheap, effective and hailing shots of STR7, AP4 assault2/ heavy 4 rending is awesome. Those for sure can take a tank easily, and they are what, 10 points each for purifiers, and 20 for GKSS (25 for termies, not that cheap :'C)? Its a decently cheap and effective way to have AT and AI. If you can scrap a few things in that list, I advise to take them. The termies dont need them, but you can easily give one an incinerator. They get themfor super cheap. If you can find 65 points (20 [2 purifiers] + 40 [2 gkss] + 1 incinerator on termies) I advise you equip them with these weapons.
I realize finding points on an army you have already been using is hard because you can get attached to it. Please look if you can scrap up some points, I dont mean to be rude, but the first place I would look for points is the dreadknight. I would consider upgrading him to a dreadnought. You could have one dread for long range, and one for short range (like heavy flamer, and assault cannon with psybolt and psyflame for 145. Good for popping light vechiles and roasting whoever is inside). Id then suggest hooking the short range to the storm raven and having the longer range one snipe from a building.
I know you dont like the look of the autocannon, but its one of the better long range weapons that GK has (especially after equiping psybolt). Its the same upgrade cost as an assault cannon, has double range and hits harder. If you dont like the look of it, just dont use the model for it. Proxy it as something else. Use the heavy bolter model and say that its an autocannon with short barrels. It only costs 135 for a psyfleman ( 2 auto cannons and psybolt) and thats a total of 4 rerollable shots at str 8 ap 4 and 48" range. Its a great long range AT, and you will need the fire support for your troops. Please take this advice to heart, and please incorperate more of our ideas.

(PS, if you do remove the dreadknight, and edit your current dreadnought, you can get the dreadnought for long range (proxy autocannnons), dreadnought for close range on the raven (psyflame heavy flamer and psybolt assault cannon) and you can get 2 psycannons on your purifiers and 2 on your GKSS and finally an incinerator on your terminators and you would still have 45 points to spare [psybolt on purifiers and gkss perhaps?]. I advise doing this, it will make your list more adaptable to change and will add some heavy hitters to your list)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3424151.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3424151.page GMT 1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!!
The dude with Grey Knight wrote:
I am hoping to get 18-2, but only time will tell....


Good luck!. If you're ever in Colorado, I'm up for a game. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3424318.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3424318.page GMT Re:1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!!
The dude with Grey Knight wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Twisted_Mister, I understand that many people will think the TLAC is better, but the TL Heavy Bolter is more effective IMHO. It's opinions that shape this world. Some people will agree with me and some won't. But, for the time being I am going to stick with the Heavy Bolter because it 'looks' better and 'plays' better for me. I will always use my army to look good. If it plays good as well (which it does), it's a bonus.


Opinion has nothing to do with mathematical reality. You are entitled to your *opinion* - saying "it feels oddly muugy today." is your opinion and I respect that. While I may choose to disagree, since I lack any imperical evidence to the contrary, im must concur, or at least abstain. saying "cows have three heads" is not an opinion. It is a claim being made by you, of which there is overwhelming evidence to the contrary. In this instance I must disagree strongly with your assessment.

Saying a twin linked heavy bolter on a dreadnought is better than a psybolt autocannon in a list with one multimelta for long range anti tank is not an opinion. It is a statement made out of ignorance.
Saying your list has enough long rang anti tank is laughable. Your list is not good, it is bordering on bad. If you have won that much, that speaks volumes about the group you play with. If that is working, go with it. Don't take the advice of the veteran players who actually do math and understand what a rounded list is.

Not taking our advice is your perogitive. Arguing with good advice is just lame. If you don't want to hear the truth, don't ask the questions. If you don't want a serious critique of your list, do not post it.
If you get good advice, take it or don't, but don't argue with people that know what they are talking about when you clearly do not.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3424359.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3424359.page GMT 1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!!
The dude with Grey Knight wrote:If you don't think this army list is any good, then atleast do the nice thing and stop posting random, un-constructive critism. IMHO if it was up to you, you'd have a whole army of devastators by the way you sound (if you could tht is)


this is hilarious. What are you dude, 12? How is it random? How is it unconstructive? It is on particular points with alternatives suggested in an articulate manner.

As Scotty said dude, learn to take advise, because you are jus being a baby. If the entire thread is disagreeing with you, take a hint. This sub-forum is here for army help, not army praise. So please grow up and next time don't post an army if all you want is someone to pat you on the back.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3424564.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3424564.page GMT 1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!! AT shooting, i had 1 carnifex, 1 tyrgon prime, 1 hive tyrant and genestealers, all in combat, and all took out the tanks i needed taking out


Automatically Appended Next Post:
:O two pages, im happy now, thanks guys, i won an arguement with my friend (i said i could get 2 pages of people disagreeing with me in 1 month )]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3425209.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3425209.page GMT 1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!!
The dude with Grey Knight wrote:Wrong, i didnt have any AT shooting, i had 1 carnifex, 1 tyrgon prime, 1 hive tyrant and genestealers, all in combat, and all took out the tanks i needed taking out


Automatically Appended Next Post:
:O two pages, im happy now, thanks guys, i won an arguement with my friend (i said i could get 2 pages of people disagreeing with me in 1 month )




Your post title needs more exclamation marks.

I love how you ask for opinions, yet shoot down ever single one for aesthetic purposes. If you love your list so much, don't bother posting it and asking for advice.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3425233.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3425233.page GMT 1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3425348.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3425348.page GMT Re:1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3425381.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3425381.page GMT 1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3425394.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3425394.page GMT Re:1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3425401.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3425401.page GMT Re:1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3425835.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3425835.page GMT 1500pt Grey Knight List! Opinions needed!
The dude with Grey Knight wrote:


:O two pages, im happy now, thanks guys, i won an arguement with my friend (i said i could get 2 pages of people disagreeing with me in 1 month)

lol is that what this is all about? That actually makes sense!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3425907.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3425907.page GMT 1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!! TLAC + Psybolt Ammunition upgrade, i just wanted to prove a point to my mate

P.s @Inigo Montoya click the ignore button, in the bottom right hand side, and i'll see you after you unblock me ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3428520.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3428520.page GMT 1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!!
The dude with Grey Knight wrote:The funny thing is guys, i actually have a Dreadnought with the TLAC + Psybolt Ammunition upgrade, i just wanted to prove a point to my mate


Whoah you got whole two pages.


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3429508.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3429508.page GMT 1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!! ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3440317.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3440317.page GMT 1500pt Grey Knight List! Opinions needed!
The dude with Grey Knight wrote:As mentioned before, i go for looks mainly

They don't look as good IMHO (TLAC), so i think im going to take some purifiers with Psycannons


Not trying to be rude here but what do you want out of this thread? You have been given a lot of great advice and basically ignored it all, responding with some factually incorrect assumptions. If you want to take a list based on looks then have at it, I think everyone will support you and encourage you. But if you want advice on how to be more competitive then the advice you have already been offered is quite good, you just sound like you are choosing to ignore it.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3440959.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3440959.page GMT 1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3441339.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3441339.page GMT 1500pt Grey Knight List! Opinions needed!
Nuff wrote:

Not trying to be rude here but what do you want out of this thread?


Does a troll need a reason?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3441476.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3441476.page GMT Re:1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!!
I was wondering how anyone could be so slowed to post a list as crap as that.

You could have at least done something vaguely amusing, like a Daemonhost spam list or some gak, but a list with TLHB Dreads? Really? That just makies you looks like a fething dumbass..]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3441961.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3441961.page GMT 1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3442011.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3442011.page GMT Re:1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!!
He posted up a crap list, ignored constructive criticizm, and just generally farted in everyone's face when supplied with intelligent and well thought out advice and suggestions. Why? To prove a point to his friend, about how he could generate 2 pages of argument by defending TLHB Dreads.

Yeah.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
The dude with Grey Knight wrote:The funny thing is guys, i actually have a Dreadnought with the TLAC + Psybolt Ammunition upgrade, i just wanted to prove a point to my mate



There it is.

lol.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3442097.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3442097.page GMT 1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3442487.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3442487.page GMT 1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!!
Godless-Mimicry wrote:Sure the ignoring advise intentionally and trolling is stupid, but above you specifically said he has to be a slow for posting such a bad list, nothing about his trolling.


Very well then, my bad for insulting the troll ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3442634.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3442634.page GMT 1500pt Grey Knight List!!!!! Opinions needed!!!!!! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3443316.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400850/3443316.page GMT