<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "New Necrons: Hope for Tyranids?"]]>

<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "New Necrons: Hope for Tyranids?"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net New Necrons: Hope for Tyranids?
Have a moment to take a deep breath, at this wonderful new-found experience as a Tyranid player, not being terrified of the new release.

Now exhale.

So what I mean by this is as follows; pretty much every new book that has come out (sisters excluded) has shoved Nids further and further out of the competitive scene (i.e 108 poisoned shots, Jawsoftrolololol, basically mech).

My theory is that Necrons will not do so.

Looking through the rumors, Necrons scare the crap out of mech. Rightly so. Whilst we can only really speculate until points costs are released, it appears that Scarabswarmspam combined with Mr. "Night-Fighting-Until-I-Say-So" will really put the dampener on gunline armies.

As a tyranid player, I really couldn't care less. Nothing is really terrifying me about this book, and if it forces out the top-end builds that make tyranids uncompetitive, we could be in with a chance.

Even the "do-a-wound-to-all-identical-models-guy" isn't that big of an issue; I don't really care if he kills off a unit of spawned gants, stealers will kill him before he strikes, and everything else is multi-wound anyway... he might scare gargoyles?

So what do you dakkanaughts think? Am I miles off, or am I onto something here? I don't expect the release to catapult Nids to top-tier, but they might offer us a little reprieve...
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404596/3457458.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404596/3457458.page GMT Re:New Necrons: Hope for Tyranids? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404596/3457478.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404596/3457478.page GMT Re:New Necrons: Hope for Tyranids?

KingCracker wrote:Well I wouldnt jump the gun until the codex drops, but so far it is looking a little better for Nids anyways. They might be the counter to Necrons, but again, still a tad early to be getting your superman undies on

Absolutely correct. It may well turn out that all the AT options are ridiculously overcosted, and they get some JotWW equivalent, but regardless, I am feeling strangely optimistic with my Nids at this point. It's just that the 'scary' parts of the codex don't seem to frighten me all that much...

Then again; it really is too early to start. Does anyone else remember, before the Ork codex dropped, the big "broken" unit was thought to be Stormboyz? Don't see those around the table much do you...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404596/3457506.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404596/3457506.page GMT Re:New Necrons: Hope for Tyranids?

Warboss Gutrip wrote:

KingCracker wrote:Well I wouldnt jump the gun until the codex drops, but so far it is looking a little better for Nids anyways. They might be the counter to Necrons, but again, still a tad early to be getting your superman undies on

To be fair, in 4th Ed Storm Boyz were fantastic. 5th Ed changed alot.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404596/3457913.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404596/3457913.page GMT New Necrons: Hope for Tyranids? CC oriented; as it stands, Necrons still appear susceptible to CC via Sweeping Advance. No Fearless or Stubborn to counter it. With 'Nids being CC - or shooty if you so choose - you could imagine them tearing through 'Crons like they're consuming candy, if CC oriented; which a lot of Nids are.

On the other hand, I believe Horde oriented Nid armies would have trouble with Crons according to their apparent ability to deal with them.

I may be wrong, but an interesting piece of speculation to take into mind. Like mentioned previously, we are only supplied with rumors; solid or not. In three weeks - roughly - we will be able to find out. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404596/3458000.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404596/3458000.page GMT New Necrons: Hope for Tyranids?
Aside from that, 'Cron AI appears to come primarily from... transports? All we need to do is glance these, and they're easy prey for Hive Guard... plus they don't appear to have the long ranged punch to escape.

Even if they somehow have great anti-horde, they do appear to struggle with anti-MC, much to my gribbly delight...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404596/3458343.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404596/3458343.page GMT New Necrons: Hope for Tyranids?

Warboss Gutrip wrote:To be honest, I haven't heard about much anti-horde in the new 'crons codex - especially considering the multi-hit ability only works on models in the same squad. Nids don't really care about this, as squads of gants are generally only 3-18 strong anyway, and stealers kill him before they strike.

Aside from that, 'Cron AI appears to come primarily from... transports? All we need to do is glance these, and they're easy prey for Hive Guard... plus they don't appear to have the long ranged punch to escape. .

Don't forget about the Living Metal (chance to ignore shaken and stunned) and Quantum Shielding (+2 armour on all sides until the vehicle suffers a glance/pen) rules that are found all over their vehicles. It does mean that most Necron vehicles will be 13 all around initially. Not a big issue, especially with MC, but not overly easy, either

I'd also say wait and see what the Tesla Destructor and Tesla Cannon actually do, since the Annihilation Barge (on which they are found) is apparently the heavy anti-infantry hitter of the army. Tesla weapons in general seem nasty - on a 6 to hit, it 2 more hits are automatically caused. Tesla Carbines, which seem to be the more "standard" version, are strength 5, so I'm assuming the strength only goes up from there. The biggest type of Tesla weapon can potentially automatically hit nearby squads (friend or foe) in addition to the one it fired at. Looks like they have no AP value, at least.

As an Ork player, I'm keeping my eyes out for this one particularly ;p

Edit: Here we go, thanks to Yakface

...Tesla Desructor, which is a fantastic weapon. 24", Assault 4, S7, AP-, Tesla & Arc. 'Tesla' (as always) means that any 'to hit' roll of '6' means TWO additional hits (not sure if this means 3 overall hits per '6' rolled or not...the wording is kind of ambigious, but I'm thinking, that a roll of '6' does equal 3 hits). 'Arc' means that all units (friendly and enemy) within 6" of the target enemy unit suffer D6 S5 AP- hits on a D6 roll of '6'.

That scares the gits right of me, personally. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404596/3458733.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404596/3458733.page GMT New Necrons: Hope for Tyranids? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404596/3458904.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404596/3458904.page GMT Re:New Necrons: Hope for Tyranids? Id say PM Yaface and ask him? Hes the one that has actually seen the codex. At least Im guessing because he seems to know damn near everything about the new crons]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404596/3459645.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404596/3459645.page GMT New Necrons: Hope for Tyranids? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404596/3461572.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404596/3461572.page GMT New Necrons: Hope for Tyranids?

I know for sure Crons will despise Stealers; almost everyone does, especially their Elite variant. By assumption, there will be CC counters for the Crons via the Elites or wargear, upgrades, etc; just not sure what and how effective it will be. Sure Nids do not have very good armor saves (save for MCs), but I know a experienced Nid player will advance/tactically maneuver through cover and/or Scout, Infiltrate or Outflank; especially the latter. I've always had Stealers catch me by surprise by an Outflank when I thought I was safe. But I can't really determine factually what Crons will have against Nids at this point in time, but it is entertaining to think of.

Cron transports hold little promise for me, especially if they're expensive. I do not know and will have to wait and see; unfortunately.

MC countering...hrm. I thought of a - in my opinion - nice little counter to that. The Triarch Stalker with it's Targeting system + Gauss Cannons = Twin-linked S6, AP3 shots. It may not be able to bypass 2+ - though Nids have only a few for that - but I'm sure it can put some hurt on MCs, if not being able to down a MC in one go; some Nids use Venomthropes for that AP3 and lower though. Destroyers will apparently be cheaper than their old counterparts, whether you upgrade them to Heavy Gauss Cannons or not.

Not exactly sure their counter, but I can almost guarantee they wouldn't leave Crons hanging in that regard, especially when they're a shooting army, and highly advanced to boot. Just my 2 cents. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404596/3462471.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404596/3462471.page GMT New Necrons: Hope for Tyranids? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404596/3462630.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404596/3462630.page GMT Re:New Necrons: Hope for Tyranids? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404596/3462761.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404596/3462761.page GMT New Necrons: Hope for Tyranids?
The Night Scythe Transport has a twin linked Strength 7 Ap- Heavy 4 Tesla Weapon. It also has the Arc Ability, which has the chance to hit other units nearby. This is in addition to the 2 hits per six to hit.

The Ghost Ark Has 2 Arrays of 5 Flayers, and is open topped. So that means between the warriors inside, and the 2 Sets of Flayers, they will obliterate a horde with little issue.
I expect to see at least two of these.

We don't know enough about the Command Barge to comment, so We'll have to wait on that.

For the Elites Section,I Agree that this stuff isn't really geared toward Anti-Horde, but the Lycheguard and Praetorians really will destroy Monstrous creatures. Between the Lycheguards with the 4+ Invul Shield, and their strength 5. Not to mention the Resurrection protocol. Praetorians have the AP2 Shooting on their rods means they could quite likely slay a TMC in one round of shooting. These guys likely wouldn't do as well in CC though.

Troop wise, we have the Basic flayer, which isn't a big deal.
Immortals, Can take the Tesla Carbine though, while at Ap- it's still got a 24' range with the Tesla ability, as well as being STR 5

Fast Attack.

Most of the time, in an all comers list it looks like people will be taking Scarabs. However, this slot also has Wraiths, which as of right now, look really Nasty. They are STR 6 with Rending, and 3A base, along with two wounds. You can also upgrade them with Lash whip Equivalents, which means you'll be hitting the Wraiths last. Add that they move as Jump Infantry, ignore all terrain and still have their 3++ Makes them quite fearful for Any Melee Army.

It's really the Heavy Support that's going to be Rough for Tyranids though.

The Doomsday Ark Is a StR 9 Ap1 Large blast, with a 72' Range. It's going to be rough to do anything to this, until you take down the Quantum shielding. All the while it's blasting our bugs of the map in Droves.

The Annihilation Barge is supposed to be the Anti-Infantry support, and contains the "Tesla Cannon" I imagine this is a large blast version of the Destructor. We haven't been given the stats on it yet, but I imagine it's quite nasty.

I wouldn't be worried as much about the Doom Scythe Hive Guard should hopefully be able to Knock this thing out of the Sky before it gets close enough to hit with the Death Ray.

The Monolith is still quite potent. With it's ability to Always fire the Particle whip, and the Flux Arcs, despite moving, is quite good. Not to mention the ability to pull troops across the map to rapid fire into the bugs. The good thing is that our TMC can Actually break this now.

Sorry for the long post, but as a Nid player, I really wouldn't want to go up against this army from what We've read. We also still have the handicap of having to make it across the map to get them, and even in combat, the new troops are fairly hardy to kill, with most units having a 3+ followed by a 5+(4+RO)

We'll have to see the new codex of course before final judgements are made.

On the bright side, I doubt it's going to be as tough as fighting IG! Not really much of a bright side, but yeah.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404596/3462803.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404596/3462803.page GMT New Necrons: Hope for Tyranids?
-As preciously explained, not terrified of the Night Scythe. Cover will be the savior, as always.

-The Ghost Ark doesn't make me afraid. Look at how the weapons are mounted; it will only ever (realistically) be firing 5 of those flayers at a time, and potentially the occupants. It only really has a threat radius of 18" because of this, not particularly scary, not to mention how weak it becomes if glanced. People will likely only run 5-man squads of warriors anyway, or the unit becomes very expensive/vulnerable to being swept. Frankly I'm far more afraid of immortals, but at least they are expensive at 17ppm. And still very vulnerably to assault/valuable because they are troops.

-Lychguard/Praetorians will decimate MC's, but are 40ppm, so it's not all that surprising. I also question whether we'll see these in all-comers lists, or whether they will be used to fill a niche similar to Incubi in their rarity.

-The Doomsday arc really doesn't scare me; just a less scary Manticore against 'Nids, except it puts the hurt on MC's. My plan; spread out.

-I will say; Wraiths really terrify me. However, I question how often we will see these, as three units of Scarabs will REALLY smash vehicle-heavy lists. I do agree though, Wraiths are mega-scary for Nids, and if these become popular it will hurt like all hell.

-The monolith is certainly scary, but compared to the issues I had killing the damn thing before, I'm really not as worried about it now.

@CleverAntics -
Love the Triach Stalker idea! Sounds very nasty, obviously pts-dependent, but scary all the same. The forgeworld Tomb stalker could potentially be a good stand-in for the Triach, any excuse to get that model on the table!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404596/3463118.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404596/3463118.page GMT Re:New Necrons: Hope for Tyranids? But Scarabs have Beasts (and big footprint) which makes it easier (than for most Tyranid units) to surround and wreck vehicles, providing more instant-death situations to embarked units.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404596/3463344.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404596/3463344.page GMT New Necrons: Hope for Tyranids?

Warboss Gutrip I agree with pretty much everything Sasori said, though I do have a few differences...

-As preciously explained, not terrified of the Night Scythe. Cover will be the savior, as always.

Well, you can't stay in cover for ever, but I agree for the most part. I think things like this will be used to take out some of the swarms we use for cover

-The Ghost Ark doesn't make me afraid. Look at how the weapons are mounted; it will only ever (realistically) be firing 5 of those flayers at a time, and potentially the occupants. It only really has a threat radius of 18" because of this, not particularly scary, not to mention how weak it becomes if glanced. People will likely only run 5-man squads of warriors anyway, or the unit becomes very expensive/vulnerable to being swept. Frankly I'm far more afraid of immortals, but at least they are expensive at 17ppm. And still very vulnerably to assault/valuable because they are troops.

The Ghost Ark can fire at two different targets from it's flayer arrays. Coupled with the warriors riding it, even if it's only 5, will still put the hurt on. On the Bright side, only warriors can take this transport, so we don't have to worry as much about other units assaulting out of it/firing out of it.

-Lychguard/Praetorians will decimate MC's, but are 40ppm, so it's not all that surprising. I also question whether we'll see these in all-comers lists, or whether they will be used to fill a niche similar to Incubi in their rarity.

I think we'll see these, mainly because they can handle any assault unit, which is really needed in a Necron list. Probably only one squad, but at this point I can say I'm almost certain we will always see these. (Specifically the Lycheguard with Hyperphase swords and Dispersion Shields)

-The Doomsday arc really doesn't scare me; just a less scary Manticore against 'Nids, except it puts the hurt on MC's. My plan; spread out.

If you are running a lot of models, even spread out, the Chances are it's going to hit a lot of them. With it's range, our options also become fairly limited to take it out. Until the Sheilds go down, most of our shooting is ineffective, and the Hive guard only have a 24' Range.

-I will say; Wraiths really terrify me. However, I question how often we will see these, as three units of Scarabs will REALLY smash vehicle-heavy lists. I do agree though, Wraiths are mega-scary for Nids, and if these become popular it will hurt like all hell.

I agree, I think we'll see mostly Scarab swarms in all comer lists.

-The monolith is certainly scary, but compared to the issues I had killing the damn thing before, I'm really not as worried about it now.

It's still pretty much immune to everything in the Army, except the Big Gribblies and the Tyrannofex. At least Nids have a decent change to pen it now, though. I don't know how often we'll see these. From the rumors, they still sound quite good to me, but we'll have to see.

@CleverAntics -
Love the Triach Stalker idea! Sounds very nasty, obviously pts-dependent, but scary all the same. The forgeworld Tomb stalker could potentially be a good stand-in for the Triach, any excuse to get that model on the table!

-]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404596/3463417.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404596/3463417.page GMT