<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Best CC army? Best Shooty army?"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/69.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Best CC army? Best Shooty army? cc and shooty or slightly leaning towards on or the other but which faction is flat out the best at cc and which is best at shooting?

For cc I'd say Blood Angels are the best.

For shooting I can't decide between Space Wolves and Imperial Guard.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3466231.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3466231.page GMT Re:Best CC army? Best Shooty army? BA. Although a pure Chaos Melee army I feel would do better since BA rely on their Priests and if those get ganked then uh-oh.


In shooting, I feel that this is where there is no 'best'. Imperial Guard don't have the greatest anti-horde (well it depends on the armylist Hydras vs Manticores). Their infantry blow, and the multi-laser/heavy bolters aren't effective at bs3 against horde armies. Grey Knights have great anti-infantry and light tank, but kinda get railed against heavier tank based armies as they rely on rending a lot.

Space Wolves of Longfang/TWC spam are good overall, but not all shooty so don't count imo. Black Templars I feel are pretty damn close to the #1 since they can easily pack 5-man LC/Plas squads, 4 S9 shots vs Vehicles for Terminators, cheaper predators and cheaper Typhoons. Then there is also the DA with their SUPER cheap MM/ML 75pt Speeders and their 245 Terminator Troops with CMLs and TH/SS.

yup.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3466274.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3466274.page GMT Best CC army? Best Shooty army? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3466354.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3466354.page GMT Best CC army? Best Shooty army? CC is harder i think, i think perhaps grey knights are it becuase of their grenades (they will usually strike first as well). ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3466400.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3466400.page GMT Re:Best CC army? Best Shooty army? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3466418.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3466418.page GMT Re:Best CC army? Best Shooty army? SM. It's not how the armys units work individually but how they all work together that make Guard the king of shooting IMO.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3466493.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3466493.page GMT Best CC army? Best Shooty army? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3466499.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3466499.page GMT Best CC army? Best Shooty army? IG are the best at shooting. It's not even very close. Blood Angels and Space Wolf Razor-spam + Predators/Longfangs is probably next, followed closely by Tau, Dark Eldar, and GK.

Close combat has no clear winner. Among the best ones, especially those with furious charge (Orks, BA, BT, Daemons, Berzerkers, Nids), getting the charge is usually more important to the outcome of any given combat than which army is being used.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3466602.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3466602.page GMT Re:Best CC army? Best Shooty army?
AchillesFTW wrote:You don't really have hellhounds since 99/100 guard armies will have their infinitely better Vendettas . . . Also Manticores and Leman Russes are heavy support. I'm pretty sure that guardsman are NOT effective infantry. 3 Guardsman can't really kill a marine, hell even 4 have a hard time, and lets not talk about 6 Guardsman against 5 Ork Boyz.

Unless one prefers to use ground vehicles. I would take a Hellhound over a Vendetta because I like the Hellhound better. And what does a Manticore and Leman Russ being heavy support have to do with anything?
And most of the time it will not even be 1 squad vs. 1 squad. It will be like 2 or 3 squads shooting at one squad, which when equipped with plasma guns are pretty dangerous to MEQ. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3466638.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3466638.page GMT Best CC army? Best Shooty army?
Blood Angels are the best pure-CC in general.

Imperial Guard are the best pure-shooting (this one's not even debatable).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3466642.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3466642.page GMT Best CC army? Best Shooty army? GK definitely takes the cake with Best Close Combat Army award.

Nothing can really stand toe to toe against a Draigo wing.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3466792.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3466792.page GMT Best CC army? Best Shooty army? CC to Dark Angels, IMO they're the best "wing" army.

TH/SS toting Scoring Terminators, They kinda Eat Paladins alive ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3466806.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3466806.page GMT Best CC army? Best Shooty army? CC Or shooting, both have some verrry good hybrid armys if used correctly
I dont have BA or gK codexes but I hear they have good CC.
Now shootin...I really cant decide]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3466815.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3466815.page GMT Best CC army? Best Shooty army?
jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:I actually give CC to Dark Angels, IMO they're the best "wing" army.

TH/SS toting Scoring Terminators, They kinda Eat Paladins alive


Really? You seem to be good at rolling 3+'s. Especially when they get 3 attacks at str 5-6 @ WS5. IMO the only real chance DA has against a Draigo Wing is when they get lucky or if the Paladins somehow got assaulted by 3 squads seeing as Deathwing termies can only form up to 5 members max (a real bummer). Also, dont forget that paladins get 1-2 rounds of shooting before you can get into contact.

So yeah: No. They aren the best CC army. But that's just my opinion ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3466985.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3466985.page GMT Best CC army? Best Shooty army?
jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:I actually give CC to Dark Angels, IMO they're the best "wing" army.

TH/SS toting Scoring Terminators, They kinda Eat Paladins alive


True but they get pwnd by a DCA/crusader unit packing some nades. I still stand by GN for combat. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3471327.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3471327.page GMT Best CC army? Best Shooty army?
Lets do some mathammer now.

3x 2/3 x 5/6 x 1/2 = 30/36 = 15/18 = 5/6

So an 83% of killing a single marine. Not to mention that you have a 1/6 x 2/3 = 2/18 = 1/9 = 11% of killing your gunner(22pts)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3471364.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3471364.page GMT Best CC army? Best Shooty army? FRFSRF, flamers, heavy flamers. Leamn russes. Anything that has to walk to us, dies. Its the synergy that makes Guard the top shooting army.

As for vendettas, I run 2 and a hellhound. I like the little flame tank. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3471433.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3471433.page GMT Best CC army? Best Shooty army? CC? All Khorne Daemon army.

Best shooty army? 6 psyifleman dred Grey Knights]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3471540.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3471540.page GMT Best CC army? Best Shooty army? CC army in the game by far is Grey Knights. At 20pts per model for a force weapon wielding MEQ trooper that can deepstrike and 15pts per model for a SS/PW wielding GEQ trooper you can field a ridiculous number of very effective power weapon bodies and still have points leftover for supplementary units. Considering hammerhand is practically army wide, most models will be striking at str5 in CC as well.

Grey Knights seriously need to be recosted as everything in the book is too darn cheap (even by 5th edition standards).
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3471644.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3471644.page GMT Best CC army? Best Shooty army? IG
CC: DE


Automatically Appended Next Post:
AchillesFTW wrote:I'm sorry, but I have a hard time believing that guardsman have effective anti-hordes. Their real anti-hordes in REGULAR lists are ALL in the heavy support section. While manticores sure are boss(D3 ordinance?) they can't be your only one as that leaves you vulnerable still to cover saves and whatnot. Also I have a hard time believing that 3 plasmagun vets are very effective. You're probably only getting 3 shots since the marines are more than likely to be more than 12" away.

Lets do some mathammer now.

3x 2/3 x 5/6 x 1/2 = 30/36 = 15/18 = 5/6

So an 83% of killing a single marine. Not to mention that you have a 1/6 x 2/3 = 2/18 = 1/9 = 11% of killing your gunner(22pts)

Lol, standard mech list packs a HF on each chimera, complementing the blast you get from heavy support, PBS and what not is the best horde killing army you can possibly get.
Marines? enough melta guns, lascannons and blast templates will kill any marine, not to mention any other AP2-3 weapons we can get. An Executioner would butcher MEQs like a hot knife through butter.
You need to stop looking at guard units individually, Guard's strength lies in the cheapness of their units.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3471718.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3471718.page GMT Best CC army? Best Shooty army?
AchillesFTW wrote:I'm sorry, but I have a hard time believing that guardsman have effective anti-hordes. Their real anti-hordes in REGULAR lists are ALL in the heavy support section. While manticores sure are boss(D3 ordinance?) they can't be your only one as that leaves you vulnerable still to cover saves and whatnot. Also I have a hard time believing that 3 plasmagun vets are very effective. You're probably only getting 3 shots since the marines are more than likely to be more than 12" away.

Lets do some mathammer now.

3x 2/3 x 5/6 x 1/2 = 30/36 = 15/18 = 5/6

So an 83% of killing a single marine. Not to mention that you have a 1/6 x 2/3 = 2/18 = 1/9 = 11% of killing your gunner(22pts)


Every chimera has a heavy flamer. They also have multilasers for AV10-11 duty. Manticores can kill ANYTHING due to the massive amount of wounds an averge of two large blasts will do over 4 turns. And there's never just one. Vendettas are one of the best anti-tank platforms in the game. Hydras take care of fast skimmers. Plasma and melta vets deal with heavy infantry and tanks.

And when discussing guardsmen as anti-horde, you're never facing 10 guardsmen. You'll always be facing 30+, unless you're charging a vet squad that was removed from its chimera, in such a case, is dead anyways. Guard on foot has its strength in numbers and power weapon sergeants that can't be picked out in combat. Add in Straken and those guardsmen are doing a lot more damage than you'd expect.

*Edit* Ninja'd

So in summary, Guard anti-horde is everywhere except fast attack due to the vendettas. Guard anti-tank is everywhere. That is why IG is one of the stronger codices. Same goes for SW, BA, GK, and DE.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3471730.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3471730.page GMT Best CC army? Best Shooty army? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3471770.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3471770.page GMT Best CC army? Best Shooty army?
Sometimes it's feel like GW have no idea of how the rules affect the type of lists people will build.

If we go by the fluff I guess that it would be guard or tau as the best shooters and demons or nids as the best cc.

But that doesn't seem to be the case at the moment.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3471795.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3471795.page GMT Re:Best CC army? Best Shooty army? CC, im gonna say Grey Knights. My personal favorite is Crowe.

Then shooty, hands down IG. Though I have to say enough fire warriors in rapid fire range, plus some Burst Cannon Suits and Hammer Heads can be really effective against hordes. But 9 times outa 10 you wouldn't use a list like that with Tau. The IG are pretty much effective shooty no matter what type of list you choose]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3471811.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3471811.page GMT Best CC army? Best Shooty army?
Kajon wrote:It's very strange from a fluff point of view that Space Wolfs would be one of the top shooty armies...

Sometimes it's feel like GW have no idea of how the rules affect the type of lists people will build.

If we go by the fluff I guess that it would be guard or tau as the best shooters and demons or nids as the best cc.

But that doesn't seem to be the case at the moment.

I'd say the portrayal of SW is pretty accurate, they arent all out CC fighters, they get in close and pump you full with bolters and special weapons then tore you up in CC if they need to.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3471825.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3471825.page GMT Best CC army? Best Shooty army? CC-only army.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3471922.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3471922.page GMT Best CC army? Best Shooty army?
Jackster wrote:
I'd say the portrayal of SW is pretty accurate, they arent all out CC fighters, they get in close and pump you full with bolters and special weapons then tore you up in CC if they need to.


Bolters and melta yes... the best ML unit in the game... feels pretty wrong.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3472393.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3472393.page GMT Best CC army? Best Shooty army? IG for shooting

and grey knights with CC psy grenades force weapons just tear through everything]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3472599.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3472599.page GMT Best CC army? Best Shooty army? IG for shooting, no doubt

CC, uuuuummmmm...............

one of:
GK
orks
nids
one of the insane SM chapter-specific codexes]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3472612.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3472612.page GMT Best CC army? Best Shooty army? IG becouse of their overwhelming arteilary.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3472614.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3472614.page GMT Best CC army? Best Shooty army? HTH I'd make a case for Slaanesh Demons.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3472653.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3472653.page GMT Best CC army? Best Shooty army?
jwalker52 wrote:Best close combat Tau by far


tau?
CC?
same sentence?
why?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3472669.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3472669.page GMT Best CC army? Best Shooty army? IG shoot-a-thon?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3476215.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3476215.page GMT Best CC army? Best Shooty army?
sudojoe wrote:who'd win in a Tau vs IG shoot-a-thon?



IG. More bodies on the field. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3476308.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3476308.page GMT Best CC army? Best Shooty army? CC, you want both lots of troops and lots of attacks, with that in mind wouldnt best CC army be olny a choice between Daemons, Orks and Nids

im a fan of Bezerkers, but they can olny kill so many of these guys before getting murdered in either a Green tide, Swarm, or Daemon equavelent, which should be a similar opinion/results in comparison to other CC troops in armys that are not Daemons, Orks or Nids. Right? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3480856.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3480856.page GMT Re:Best CC army? Best Shooty army? IG would be top with their blob squad with 18 power weapon attacks and god knows how many guys. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3480877.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404998/3480877.page GMT