<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Sea Guard"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/93.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Sea Guard Seems a waste though since they can fight in another rank, to only have two ranks of them. But then they're more expensive than normal spearmen, and their bows aren't that great.
So would I be better off sticking with some other spearmen?
Also seems like griffins are over-priced for what you get, is that accurate?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3721231.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3721231.page GMT Sea Guard
Also the IoB sea guard and normal spearmen do not mix well as the IoB sea guard are much larger /shakes fist at scale creep.

It is easy however to butcher that IoB griffon and turn it into a something that proxies well as a great eagle.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3721270.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3721270.page GMT Sea Guard

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as as a very quick question, I was going to undercoat with white since i'll be painting them roughly the "vanilla", i.e. white robes with trimming. But the GW painting guide says undercoat with chaos black, which would making painting white over it "difficult" to say the least.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3721406.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3721406.page GMT Sea Guard btw)

As for painting my advice is to pick a scheme that avoids using white at all. Hence my HEs are blue,silver and pale grey as all the colors paint over a black under coat with only 1 or 2 coats.

Very few folk can really paint white en masse and pull it of and as a result out of all the armies I have ever seen its HEs that tend to look the worst becasue folk fall into the "I gotta paint it like GWs" mentality.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3722595.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3722595.page GMT Sea Guard http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3722752.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3722752.page GMT Sea Guard http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3723006.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3723006.page GMT Sea Guard
IMO seaguard are a bad way to meet the core requirements.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3724039.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3724039.page GMT Sea Guard
Aerethan wrote:Sea guard are an overpriced unit that has identity issues. You are better off fielding spearmen and archers in their own separate units. This gives you focused roles and more bodies on the field.

IMO seaguard are a bad way to meet the core requirements.


Agreed 100% but might Joey might aswell use them till he gets some more core.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3724044.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3724044.page GMT Sea Guard http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3724048.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3724048.page GMT Sea Guard
For the Cost of 35 LSG you can probably have 25 Spears and 10 archers. Not sure on point costs, but the later is always better IMO. You have longer range with your shooting unit, you don't take negative modifiers for moving and shooting as much on archers as you do with LSG.

Quite a bit of people just run Archers as their core, I always liked having 35-45 Spears as my anvil and the rest into Archer units.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3724281.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3724281.page GMT Sea Guard If not I will proxy them as spearmen in our local friendly games anyway.
Just as an aside, what lore should I use for my mages?
High magic is appealing for Fury of Kaine, and possibly Flames of the Pheanix, but I can't imagine that staying in play long enough to be useful. Sheild of Saphery could also be useful.
Lore of Shadow also looks pretty useful.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3725731.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3725731.page GMT Sea Guard http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3725799.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3725799.page GMT Sea Guard
I primarily use Lore of Life for Dwellers and the buff spells in my High Elves army.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3725959.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3725959.page GMT Sea Guard
Aerethan wrote:You could say they are just spearmen, but they are not the same scale as the current HE spearmen set, so there's that.

I primarily use Lore of Life for Dwellers and the buff spells in my High Elves army.

I like the look of Life particularly for Throne of Thorns, I hate miscasts. And the buffs are very handy.
I think we have a winner...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3726003.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3726003.page GMT Sea Guard
It is also not that much of a flop as Life in my experiences since that Lore relies so much on Throne of Vines.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3727845.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3727845.page GMT Sea Guard http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3728922.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3728922.page GMT Sea Guard http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3729298.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3729298.page GMT Sea Guard Tomorrow I'll be battling Brettonia and Skaven at 1200 pts. I have a fair few models and can proxy anything I need to suit me.
I'm thinking some spearmen and some archers (with a mage hiding in them), a couple of units of swordmasters and some silver helms. Some help would be appreciated.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3729616.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3729616.page GMT Sea Guard
Skaven I have no experience with so I'm no help there.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3729716.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3729716.page GMT Sea Guard
mage-100
feedback scroll-50
mage-100
level 2-35
staff of channelling-15

10*spearmen-90
command-25

10*spearmen-90
command-25

sword masters of hoeth*10-150
command-30
banner of sorcery-50
dawnstone-25(re-roll failed armour)
total-255

sword masters of hoeth*10-150
command-30
razor standard-45(armour peircing)
total-225
tsf-1020

Silver Helms*6=138
command-40
178
1193

for Bretonia going to give the level 2 mage law of metal for damage goodness, and the level 1 high magic for dispel magic.
Against Skaven my opponant was bragging about bringing 80 slaves to the table so i'm just going to stock up on law of fire for both mages and try to destroy as many of them as I can before engaging with swordsmen/bright lances. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3730117.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3730117.page GMT Sea Guard http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3730165.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3730165.page GMT Sea Guard http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3730172.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3730172.page GMT Sea Guard
Champions are also rarely worth the points and silverhelms are a terrible unit.

I agree with Aerethan however combine what core you take into one unit and proxy the silverhelms as dragon princes.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3730802.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3730802.page GMT Sea Guard Going to have to proxy a couple of eagles I guess.
Oh and now I don't have 25% of my army as cores...making an army list in fantasy is a fething effort.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3731387.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3731387.page GMT Sea Guard http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3733264.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3733264.page GMT Sea Guard I did alright against the orcs with my swordsmasters, but against the massive skaven units i'm stuck. They're simply too big to kill in combat and they take all break tests at Ld 10 with a re-roll (though i'm taking my opponant's word on this). I will probably be fighting a very similar set-up a fair bit, so how would I go about crushing skaven masses with High Elves/]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3733290.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3733290.page GMT Sea Guard Ld will be like 5 instead. I'm not sure how they are getting 10, I don't know if there is a cap on the bonus for Ld.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3733324.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3733324.page GMT Sea Guard bsb Ld 10 rerolls is the norm so no surprises there.

Dealing with the skaven slaves in big blocks is a pain for high elves, every unit in our book can win combat against them easily but they will always be steadfast (my regular skaven opponent runs 2 blocks of 100 each) Your best bet is to redirect them however if he does what my skaven player does and hides all his killy units behind the slaves its of little use.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3733379.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3733379.page GMT Sea Guard http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3733390.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3733390.page GMT Sea Guard
And they worst part is once you get through the "slave wall" you get to fight a couple of HPAs and a big ass furnace unit =( oh and the bastard still has points to take a doomrocket and a couple of plague mortars so he is deleating my units the whole time why this is going on.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3733417.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3733417.page GMT Sea Guard http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3733451.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3733451.page GMT Sea Guard
I like 8th edition and I swear with some minor tweaks it could be great but the chances of getting a 8.5 patch is nigh on impossible.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3733466.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3733466.page GMT Sea Guard I managed to use the fire cage spell to good effect, the one that gives each model a S4 hit if it moves. This prevents a unit from flanking me, but unless I can guarentee all my mages having it it's pretty much useless.


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It did just occur to me that HE spearmen in a large block would deal with skaven blocks pretty effectively. As I understand it they'd fight in 4 ranks in a turn they didn't charge. With re-rolling to hit from always striking first you'd be looking at 21 attacks, about 16 hit, 8 wounds. Would definitely tie them down, anyway.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3733493.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3733493.page GMT Sea Guard http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3733595.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3733595.page GMT Sea Guard
Joey wrote:So I'm buggered against skaven? Really?
I managed to use the fire cage spell to good effect, the one that gives each model a S4 hit if it moves. This prevents a unit from flanking me, but unless I can guarentee all my mages having it it's pretty much useless.


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It did just occur to me that HE spearmen in a large block would deal with skaven blocks pretty effectively. As I understand it they'd fight in 4 ranks in a turn they didn't charge. With re-rolling to hit from always striking first you'd be looking at 21 attacks, about 16 hit, 8 wounds. Would definitely tie them down, anyway.


Yeah they do alright but the problem I have is after they have poped the slaves they are left standing in front of a furnce/plague monk unit or something else that will eat them. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3733687.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3733687.page GMT Sea Guard http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3734230.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3734230.page GMT Sea Guard
Silverhelms are not a good unit, ditto seaguard, but if you're only playing friendly games, it doesn't matter that much.

Agree about steadfast. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3734857.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3734857.page GMT Sea Guard So I should just play skaven expecting to lose, or not play them at all? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3735131.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3735131.page GMT Sea Guard http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3735399.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3735399.page GMT Sea Guard http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3735481.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3735481.page GMT Sea Guard http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3736232.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3736232.page GMT Sea Guard
Most Skaven units are just expendable, like the aforementioned slaves. Try to just not get into combat with these at all. Redirect, flank, do whatever you need to to get these massive blocks of worthless guys out of your way. You have some very effective tools for this in the high elf book in the form of reavers and eagles. If you use them correctly you can usually draw the giant slave blocks away from the rest of his army.

In most Skaven armies there will be one central unit where most of the points have been sunk. (Clan rats with a screaming bell?). That one unit usually makes or breaks your opponents list. If you can deplete or destroy it (here is where flames of the phoenix starts working overtime) you can usually win the game. This is really the only unit that you want to get into combat with also, and you want your biggest block of guys (spear men?) right there in the front with as many chariots and etc. as you can get in on the flanks. If you can kill that one unit you will usually either win or draw the game, so your entire game plan should revolve around drawing it out of the protection of the rest of the army, isolating it, and then just throwing everything you have at it.

So, all told, while it may not be your best match up, High Elves vs. Skaven is far from unwinable.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3736976.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3736976.page GMT Sea Guard Take Teclis next game and hitting them with flames of the phoenix.


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Actually Life could be attractive with Dwellers gaurenteed.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3737002.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3737002.page GMT Sea Guard http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3737265.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3737265.page GMT Sea Guard
run an archmage and pick a lore that contains an "All models in the unit take ____" spell. iirc high magic flames of the phoenix will work just fine, dwellers is the provincial favorite, I believe metal turns models to gold on a 5+ with one of their spells, and it gives you good offense and defense buffs + kills brettonians in a not at all fair way.

steadfast is the most important rule. run a couple of big busses, you will smash into his lines, destroy them, send them fleeing before you and then you will catch them.

Oh, and you can run the ellyrian reavers to harass and tie up warmachines, or run some great eagles for the same purpose.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3743430.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3743430.page GMT Sea Guard lvl 4 with silver wand shadow, lvl 2 with seer staff taking flames, and what ever I like shield but to each their own.

Debuff toughness on units with teclis follow with flames non same unit. Whole unit takes a s3 hit that phase, a s4 start of next magic phase, and he has to waste dice to stop it and making his magic phase less effective.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3744033.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3744033.page GMT Sea Guard
1: The only core requirement up to 2500 point games.
2: Volley fire
3: Horde spears with ASF (They even mince chaos warriors)
4: Start Spread 25 wide usually so everyone gets to shoot, then reform into deeper ranks, ready to take the charge.
5: COupled with a horde of 40 WLs on their flank they are a brilliant anvil.
6: VP denial. If the unit is wiped out, then you would be buggered anyway. 1 unit of 50 is a hell of alot harder to kill than 2 units of 25.

They do struggle vs armies with masses of small units (lizardmen skink spam or O&G) as the unit can only pick out 1 enemy unit per turn.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3768127.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3768127.page GMT Sea Guard
Aerethan wrote:I still think Steadfast is the stupidest rule to be added in the last 3 editions. It makes combat mindless if you have enough numbers. If not, then you are pretty much screwed even if you are hard hitting.


QFT

GW like it because it sells models, they could encourage bigger games another better way though. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3772633.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419316/3772633.page GMT