<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "What makes something overpowered/underpowered?"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/7.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net What makes something overpowered/underpowered? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3723994.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3723994.page GMT What makes something overpowered/underpowered?
over-powered - It does its primary job and many other jobs for way fewer points than it should cost. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3724187.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3724187.page GMT What makes something overpowered/underpowered? OP or UP is price. Anything can be as strong as the writer wants, provided it's cost properly reflects its abilities. In some cases the cost is too high(Lothern Sea Guard) and in other cases it is too low( Dark Elves Hydra).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3724209.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3724209.page GMT What makes something overpowered/underpowered? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3725137.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3725137.page GMT What makes something overpowered/underpowered? http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3725171.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3725171.page GMT Re:What makes something overpowered/underpowered? Underpowered, something that cannont fulfill its primary role or does it for too many points]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3725187.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3725187.page GMT What makes something overpowered/underpowered?
Surtur wrote:So to you its not a matter of abilities, but a matter of cost. Do you mean to say that there can be no overpowered ability so long as it's payed for?


If some ability is so fantastic that it costs 3k points to bring then your not going to get to use it very often. On the flipside if you made Necron Flayed one's 1 point a piece everyone would be having armies with 60 of them because they would be sorely undercosted. At the price of a necron warrior points wise people are pretty meh about them. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3725212.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3725212.page GMT What makes something overpowered/underpowered?
Surtur wrote:So to you its not a matter of abilities, but a matter of cost. Do you mean to say that there can be no overpowered ability so long as it's payed for?



In the realm of tabletop gaming, I don't think you can get away from an "abiility" associated with a cost. It is just the nature of the beast.

I guess there could be another metric to go by...that being the limitation on the numbers of a certain unit for a given battle size, but that is usually pretty rare and I can't think of a unit choice that I would say was OP but would have been about right if the nembers were limited.

Possibly psyfleman GK dread? OP in numbers for the cost, but correctly costed if limited to one?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3725230.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3725230.page GMT What makes something overpowered/underpowered? OP or UP in my gamng circle gets used when a unit either is either too inefficent at the task it needs to fill in a army, or when a unit with lets say a cost 75 points per moddel can win you the enthier battle if you bring a squad of them. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3725478.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3725478.page GMT What makes something overpowered/underpowered? OP thing ever made. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3725541.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3725541.page GMT What makes something overpowered/underpowered? OP as core)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3725611.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3725611.page GMT What makes something overpowered/underpowered?
For example if you play Dark Eldar you have the highest initiative of any base troops in the game. This means any close combat you get into you will for certain gain the first attack.

Now you may say they pay the points for that or that they don't have high strength or a good save and that squares that circle but the fact remains attacking first against an enemy your almost certain to wipe out is a something for nothing.

There are others abilities that give a very larger advantage when used in a particular way without any known weakness.

Some units can have it all and give nothing up in return. That's a broken game IMO.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3725619.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3725619.page GMT Re:What makes something overpowered/underpowered? SM grey hunters)
Underpowered= Does its job too poorly when looking at its point cost (Skaven ratling gun weapon teams, SM Devastators)

Its that simple truly. The new Grey Knights are , and many codex'es need a upgrade.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3725624.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3725624.page GMT Re:What makes something overpowered/underpowered? OP just means its more fun to bring the mother down.

UP is when you roll a bucket of dice and when its all over you still have not caused a wound.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3725636.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3725636.page GMT What makes something overpowered/underpowered? Overpowered- something that you find in (almost) every list of an army that is meant for serious competition. Or, in the alternative, something that is considered a "no brainer" when picking units for your army.
Underpowered- something that you would never see in a serious list or it only shows up for a theme's sake (fluff basis). A unit, that ,when deployed makes your opponent openly question your understanding of the rules of the game.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3725665.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3725665.page GMT What makes something overpowered/underpowered?
runmymouth wrote:under-powered - For the point cost it can not do its primary job.

over-powered - It does its primary job and many other jobs for way fewer points than it should cost.


Pretty much this, but most of the times at a higher level.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3725670.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3725670.page GMT What makes something overpowered/underpowered? OP is that unit that WAAC types will spam to death.

UP is a unit that the average cookie cutter internaut does not have the intelligence or tactical acumen to use successfully.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3725721.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3725721.page GMT What makes something overpowered/underpowered? IMO, point cost is a big factor when it comes to something being over/underpowered however I’d like to add that increasing the point cost isn’t necessarily the best balancing factor for making something “not overpowered”.

The reason being is that with tabletop gaming, there’s always wiggle room when it comes to point cost and thus a player could still purchase said expensive unit and bulk up the rest of their army with cost effective units. Additionally there are other side mechanics that could be used to make said unit cheaper or more effective than it was intended.

A good example of this can be sent through thunder wolf cavalry (as well thunder wolf ICs). Their high point cost makes them “not op” in a vacuum comparison however when you start to take into consideration wound allocation, storm shields, scoring and cheap supporting units like Grey Hunters and Long Fangs, they start to raise balance issues.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3725762.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3725762.page GMT Re:What makes something overpowered/underpowered? -Have many strengths, lack proper and exploitable weaknesses
-Can be easily spammed or effectively used no matter the situation
-Are cheap in points cost
-Lots of powerful upgrades
Under powered units;
-Have many weaknesses, lack real use and multiple exploitable problems or short comings, main use is poor and is easily replaced by other units
-Cannot be used in high numbers due to high points cost or rule restrictions
-Expenive in points
-Easily replaced ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3725983.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3725983.page GMT Re:What makes something overpowered/underpowered?
The Epic Chaosdude!!! wrote:Overpowered= When something does its job too well when considering its pointcost (Dark elf Hydras, SM grey hunters)
Underpowered= Does its job too poorly when looking at its point cost (Skaven ratling gun weapon teams, SM Devastators)

Its that simple truly. The new Grey Knights are , and many codex'es need a upgrade.


I find this interesting.

Would you still say SM Devastators were underpowered if BA Devastators and SW Long Fangs weren't around?

I know this is an extremely difficult question to answer because we have seen that GW is willing to price Devastators lower points-wise.
But has SM Devastators become underpowered on their own merits (or lack thereof), or due to the fact that an "identical" unit, in another codex, does the same job better/cheaper?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3727306.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3727306.page GMT What makes something overpowered/underpowered?
Many people point to points as a major balancing factor. So if a unit can make double it's points back before being touched, with low risk, does that make it overpowered? Does the probability of being removed outright with nothing to prevent it make something UP? Example:

5 deepstriking stormtroopers w/ 2 melta vs Land Raider

The stormies are a mere 105 points to the land raider's 250+ (depending on extra armor and variant).

Now melta has the built in disadvantage of short range, but in many cases can guarantee a popped tank regardless of cost for a mere 5-10 points. Deepstriking is very risky with a 1/3rd chance of actually landing where you need to be. Stormtroopers though greatly mitigate both disadvantages by having deepstrike and being able to re-roll. The unit has a high probability (~52% immobile, wreck, explode) to stop the tank or destroy it outright (38%).

Stormtroopers are often bashed for being useless or underpowered (usually this set up being an exception), but by many definitions presented by other posters, wouldn't this make them OP and a Land Raider UP? Furthermore, what part is it that makes them OP/UP? Is it the fact that melta can remove a tank with such ease or is it that the tank relies entirely on a table for damage no matter how many times it's hit or what hits it?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3727539.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3727539.page GMT What makes something overpowered/underpowered?
Surtur wrote:I'm curious to see what people in the community think defines overpowered game rules or underpowered game rules.


If enough people say it on the internet, well, then it must be true...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3727549.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3727549.page GMT Re:What makes something overpowered/underpowered? SM devs are UP becuase of the other flavors of Devastators but by looking at the other HS choices. I can spend `240+ for a fullly loaded 10 man squad or get several predators/vindicators or a single land raider. The tanks won't get taken out by low strength weapons on the front or side armor. I can fail a 3+save to a lasgun. It just adds insult to injury when a 5 man squad of Long Fangs can split fire for less points on the weapons and I can hit two targets only by combat squading. More so with BA devastators as they're cheaper and could get FNP. Granted that's an army flavor rule and they suffer from the same problem as vanilla SM of choosing which HS to use as they can get fast vehicles.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3727690.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3727690.page GMT What makes something overpowered/underpowered?
Points cost does not matter because something can be overpowered in a small game but balanced in a large game.

Underpowered - A unit that has difficulty doing what it's designed to do, regardless of points cost or number of units on the battlefield.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3728080.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3728080.page GMT Re:What makes something overpowered/underpowered? There are 2 places to ensure balance in a gaming system with PV and army composition.

Ensure PV allocation is as acurate as posible , by using a consistant and PROVEN method .

Ensure synergistic anomalies are found (by extensive playtesting, ) and adresses.(Eg 0-1 chioce, or one of unit X for every 2 unit Y.)

Overpowered and underpowered units are more frequent in game systems that use limited playtesting and lots of gestimation to arrive at PV and army composition.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3729105.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419494/3729105.page GMT