Frawg wrote:Okay, so Scarab approaches and I have yet to figure out my army list. Been mulling it around a bit and slowly tinkering. Here is what I've come up with so far. These are all units that have worked well in the past, and in my most recent game did very well.

HQ:

Warboss: Eavy Armor, Ammo Runt, Attack Squig, boss pole, cybork body, poka klaw,

-I personally think eavy armor on Warboss is a waste, but if you have 5 points sitting around it's fine.

Big Mek: Eavy Armor, Cybork Body, KFF, burna
-Same here , sorta think armor bork and burna are just a waste, if he gets singled out hes gonna die one way or the other. Since he has no Klaw, and he got the boyz across the field-his job is done.

Elites:

12 Lootas

12 is an odd number. Would rather see 5-5-5 or one group with 15 for leadership reasons.

Troops:

7 Nobz: 2 with Powa Klaws, 2 with Big Choppas, 1 Painboy, 1 with Waaaghbanner. All have cybork bodies and eavy armor
Dedicated Transport: Battle Wagon with Deff Rolla and Grot Riggers

Again, eavy armor is sort of a waste imo. Maybe put it on 1 or 2 to give allocation, unique model, but it really is not going to win the fight for you here. Nobs are not generally attacking fuzzy bunnies and the difference between 5+ cybork and 4+ armor just doesn't justify spending 35 points. 4+ armor is not an upgrade to 5+ cybork(invulnerable). it's worse and a point sink.

30 Boys with shootas, 2 big shootas, Nob with Big Choppa and boss pole.

if you are gonna take 30 shootas take 3 big shootas. I like mobs of 20 boyz, hey you like 30 it's preference I guess. Also a critical mistake here is that you nob does not have a power Klaw. Do you realize if a single av 11/12 walker attacks this unit, it will probably kill every single member and if it doesnt it will tarpit the unit for the entire game. YOU MUST take a power Klaw. That's not an opinion, it's an unwritten rule for orks.

Fast Attack:

10 Biker boys: Nob with Powa Klaw

No biker expert, but I don't think they fit into your army, you have some sloggers and some nobz in a wagon and some boyz on bikes. this makes no sense to me. drop the bikers and grab 30 more shoota boyz. Run the nobz+battlewagon from reserve with RPJ.

12 Stormboys: Zagstruk upgrade.

Lots of people don't like stormboyz, I do only when they are with zaggstruk. One thing to consider here is with zagstruk you want to field minimum 15 storm boyz why? because when Zagg deepstrikes+assault 1-3 boyz will die. If you bring 15, you will still be fearless going into the fight!

Heavy Support

Looted Wagon: Boom gun, rokkit launcha, grot riggers

Remove the Rokkits, boom gun is ordance and you will never fire the rokkits(if you are firing both at same time that is illegal) drop the rokkit and add the ard case The boomgun is going to be singled out first round(especially if battlewagon is in reserve). witha single looted wagon I would probably play it from reserve as well OR bring 3 of them. Otherwise it is not likely to shoot one time. I have suggested that people turn one loota into a mek and then position him next to a looted wagon in case the weapon is destroyed. Some people didnt like that idea, but it's not too big of a deal to add a 15 point mekboy to your 5 pack of lootas in order to make sure 120 point tank can shoot more than one round! that's my two cents.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419729/3729301.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419729/3729301.page GMT

DAaddict wrote:The only problem I see is you are running a mixed list.

What's wrong with running a mixed list? Long range supports melee? Maybe I am confused, as I usually am.

Perhaps a cheap unit of grots to screen the lootas and to sit back (and cower) on a home objective.
I'll take that into consideration. Never hurts to have some grots to screen my shooty boys.

Zagstruk is good but IMO just give him enough boyz to throw away on a deep strike to assault. They are too costly.

Planning on that. May bump up the total a little.

If you like bikes, go to mimimum squads with a nob with PK in each. You are already susceptible to your Ld 7 so why not go to 3 squads with a 7 Ld instead of a 300 pt squad that is one 8+ roll from putting you behind the eight ball.

Wise words.

You went the loota route. I find every ork army should have lootas, kommadoes or burna boyz. Another option for you would be go to one trukk boy squad and then mount the burnas in a wagon. Burnas are almost as nasty as lootas for the surprise and lethality they bring.

I just plain don't like burnas, I like lootas.

Okay, I get it, 'Eavy armor is a waste. I just know that in the games I have played, the 7 nobs, warboss, and big mek have literally walked through entire units of just about every army they have faced. Grey Knights, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, and all that.

Gonna revamp the list. I don't see the point of 12 being an odd # being relevant. What does the numerical coherency of the squad matter.

Regardless, give me some time to revamp and see what I come up with, and I'll post again in a while.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Okay, so I have done some revision to my army. It is not complete yet, but it is close. I think this is a little better of a list, let's see how badly you critics pick it apart.

HQ
115 points Warboss: eavy armor, attack squig, cybork body, Power Klaw
100 points Big Mek: eavy armor, cybork body, Kustom Force Field

Elites
75 points 5 x Lootas
90 points 6 x Lootas: 1 upgraded to a Mek

Troops
360 points 6 x Nobs: 2 with powa klaws, 2 with big choppas, 1 painboy, 1 waaagh banner (on one of the PK nobs) all with eavy armor, cybork bodies
110 points Battlewagon with Deff Rolla (dedicated transport for the nobz)
230 points 30 x Shoota Boys: 3 x big shootas, 1 nob with powa klaw
67 points 19 x Grots with runtherd

Fast Attack
257 points 14 x Stormboys with Zagstruk (making 15 not sure if I did the math right on that)

Heavy Support
105 points Looted Wagon with boomgun

That is what I have so far. That puts me at 1509 out of 1750. Trying to decide what to spend the last 241 points. Here is my thought for the army so far. The Warboss, big mek, and nobz are in the BW. 2 squads of lootas hangin in the back poppin shots. The squad with the mek hangs near the looted wagon so he can fix it as needed. The grots hang back to form a screen in front of the lootas. The 30 shoota boys hoof it up the field close to/in front of the BW to help in CC or to harass units from range. Zag and the Vulcha boys drop in where they are needed, and yes they will assault on the turn they come in (because why take him otherwise?) I am pretty set on this list, and just need a little help figuring out what to add in to round it out. was thinking another squad or two of choppa boys in trukks to help out the nobs, and that way they can keep up with them if they are in fast moving vehicles.

I had actually thought about dropping 9 grots and the attack squig off the warbos, and that would give me enough points to field 2 12 man choppa boy squads with nobs with power klaws in trukks as dedicated transports. Any thoughts on that?

Questions you may ask,
"I thought we told you no 'eavy armor, why take it?" Well, little timmy, after talking with my buddy who plays 40K damn near professionally who wins most of the time, he convinced me that it isn't such a bad thing. In rounds of combat with things like regular squads of marines, or taking rounds of bolter fire, I'd rather have the 4+ versus 5+. Basically the same reason you take terminators instead of fielding more regular marines, cause they're tougher.
"Why take 19 grots, it's an odd number?" "Simply because that is the most I can take without having to pay for another runtherd."
"If you drop Zag and take a nob instead then you can have more points to play with. Why not do that?" Because I like Zag, and his rules, and his fluff. I am not playing to crush my opponent and win the tournament flat out, I am just going to have fun in the first tournament I've ever gone to.

Any other questions or comments are welcome. I will take them into consideration, but I am really liking the way this list is working thus far. Supply some feedback ya'll.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419729/3729870.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419729/3729870.page GMT
Only major mistake you are still making is that you are not understanding nob wound allocation(this is critical to making them effective-it's basically the reason they are so tough). The rule is in BRB under multiple "wound models". basically though the idea is that if I have 6 unique characters(different gear) and the unit takes 6 wounds, I can allocate a single wound to each model instead of having to kill 3 models. The only reason I am allowed to do this is because all models have different gear. basically what that means is that an enemy has to inflict and you have to suffer 7 wounds before 1 nob dies! However if 2 nobs are identicaly modeled, one must be assigned 2 wounds in the same situation.

I dont have codex atm but cost this list out, i think it will do what you want. I added a killcanon to the BW because you seem to like the big stompy stuff and I added another boomgun which will give you 3 big templates of devastation. Also, the nobs don't need the warboss with them, they don't need a baby sitter. the boyz can benefit greatly though from the boss's str 10 PKs if they run into sumthin bigguh den a nob.

HQ
points Warboss: attack squig, cybork body, Power Klaw,combi scorcha
points Big Mek: cybork body, Kustom Force Field

Elites
75 points 5 x Lootas
90 points 6 x Lootas: 1 upgraded to a Mek

Troops
30 Shoota Boyz 3 big shootas Nob/PK/BP
30 Shoota Boyz 3 big shootas Nob/PK/BP
20 Choppa Boyz Nob /PK/BP Warboss goes here.
19 grots + RH

Nob Squad-ALL HAVE CYBORK NO ARMOR
Painboy
PK, Waaagh! Banner, BP
PK, Shoota/Skorcha
BC, Shoota/Skorcha
BC, TL-Shoota
Shoota/Skorcha
Stock Nob

Battlewagon with Deff Rolla Kill Kannon/RPJ/Armor BIG MEK GOES HERE


Fast Attack
257 points 15 x Stormboys with Zagstruk 15 boyz + zagg (keeps you above fearless if 3 die during deepstrike)

Heavy Support
Looted Wagon with boomgun
Looted Wagon with boomgun


Another thing you could do(it is ridiculously fun) is stick the warboss with the gretchin and run across the field at the "Biggest" enemy. The warboss with the gretchin is now effectively a 23 wound rokkit of death running straight into the toughest fight on the board. This is indeed a very orky thing to do. (just don't run him into anything with a DCCW, or power weapons, go for the land raider, demon prince, etc. I would suggest charging and soloing a squad of Tac marines or something). The added benefit of the runtherder is that he actually removes attacks from whatever the warboss is Krumpin. This basically allows the warboss to solo monsters. If you are going to do this, then buying the xtra runt herder is a nice upgrade because 2 runt herders would remove two attacks from whatever the warboss is fightin. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419729/3731496.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419729/3731496.page GMT

Grots R OP wrote:Ok I have take the liberty to revise. You got most of it figured out second list is tuned up alot better.

Only major mistake you are still making is that you are not understanding nob wound allocation(this is critical to making them effective-it's basically the reason they are so tough). The rule is in BRB under multiple "wound models". basically though the idea is that if I have 6 unique characters(different gear) and the unit takes 6 wounds, I can allocate a single wound to each model instead of having to kill 3 models. The only reason I am allowed to do this is because all models have different gear. basically what that means is that an enemy has to inflict and you have to suffer 7 wounds before 1 nob dies! However if 2 nobs are identicaly modeled, one must be assigned 2 wounds in the same situation.

So, what if I ran my list the way it is, but give a boss pole to one of the nobz with the big choppa? That way all of them are technically equipped differently. I like the list I have thus far, and think that 2 more squads of Choppa boys in trukks with Powa Klaw nobs would benefit my play style very well. That's something I hadn't been taking into consideration, MY play style. I would love to run another BW, or another looted wagon, but I only have one of each, so I can't really field things I don't have. I think I may field the list the way it is, but drop the attack squig on the warboss, drop 9 grots, and add 2 squads of boys in trukks, like I said earlier. I can add a bosspole in there too to keep wound allocation different in the nob squad. Seem reasonable?
Here, let me repost it.

HQ
100 points Warboss: eavy armor, cybork body, Power Klaw
95 points Big Mek: cybork body, Kustom Force Field

Elites
75 points 5 x Lootas
90 points 6 x Lootas: 1 upgraded to a Mek

Troops
360 points 6 x Nobs: 2 with powa klaws, 2 with big choppas (1 with bosspole), 1 painboy, 1 waaagh banner (on one of the PK nobs) all with eavy armor, cybork bodies
110 points Battlewagon with Deff Rolla (dedicated transport for the nobz)
230 points 30 x Shoota Boys: 3 x big shootas, 1 nob with powa klaw
40 points 10 x Grots with runtherd
107 points 12 x Choppa Boys with Nob with Power Klaw
35 points Trukk (DT)
107 points 12 x Choppa Boys with Nob with Power Klaw
35 points Trukk (DT)

Fast Attack
257 points 14 x Stormboys with Zagstruk (making 15 not sure if I did the math right on that)

Heavy Support
105 points Looted Wagon with boomgun

I kinda like the way that looks, plus that will give me 2 more units to possibly capture objectives, or whatever else I need them boys to do.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419729/3731647.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419729/3731647.page GMT PK nob(he is the last nob to die), put the BP on the other PK nob(he is the second to last nob to die). This way you have the waagh banner all the way until you are dead and you have PK's till the end as well.

Boyz in trukks are fine, and in fact are probably better if you are bringing the wagon, that is a good change.

the eavy armor is still a waste on any model w cybork body-on warboss its ok on nobz just drop it. It literally is pointless to spend 5 points to get a 4+ armor save when you have already purchased a 5+ invul save. The 4+ armor save is a 16% improvement vs things that can't kill nobs anyway. look at it this way the FNP from the painboy IS your 4+ armor save. Anything that ignores armor ignores FNP, that is why you have cybork. The painboy = 4+ armor save for all nobs + 'urty syringe. Why buy the 4+ save again when you have FNP?


OMG DO NOT DROP THE SQUIG RU NUTS! REMOVE THE' EAVY ARMOR AND PUT THE SQUIG BACK NOW!!!

Srsly though drop the armor and put mr squiggy back. it's like single handledly the best upgrade on any boss in the codex besides a PK. If they let me buy 5 attack sqigs I would take them all. a str 10 hit for 15 points, give me more please.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419729/3731920.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419729/3731920.page GMT
Maybe this list will work better for me. Not going to the tournament to win. Going to have fun and hope to place. Next one I go to, I hope to take my dark eldar. That will be my list that will shock and awe people. heh heh heh. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419729/3732223.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419729/3732223.page GMT