<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Dawn of War 2.5"]]>

<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Dawn of War 2.5"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/16.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Dawn of War 2.5
This game mode is mean't to bring Dawn of War to the TableTop, have any comments/Criticism's? email me at insanegraydoctor AT yahoo DOT com(or post here, if I don't reply, most likely I will, feel free to email me)

While I play Warhammer 40,000 TableTop, Dawn of War first got me into it(back in 2004 with it's release) and today I have 25K points worth in all my armies combined(Imperium of Man/Orks) and just a couple days ago, I started thinking:"Wouldn't be awesome if DoW came to the TableTop in a balanced way?!" well, I'm going to try to keep it balanced anyway, if you don't like long games, this may not be for you, because unlike TT 40K, there is no turn limit, but like TT it remains turnbased(as anything outside of a video game that's real time is Chaotic, and even the Chaos Gods don't like that)

1: What you need to play
Everything for 40K
Buildings(preferably military styled buildings unless you like creating your own, at that case, go for it)
12 Objective markers(make sure 3 of them look real nice)

2: The Rules

2.1: Starting out
2.2: Points system
2.3: Objectives and capturing them
2.4: Reinforcements and upgrading units
2.5: Base Buildings/costs/AV
2.6: Racial Abilities
2.7: Enslavement and Capturing
2.8: New units created specifically for DoW 2.5
2.9: Game Modes
3.0: Your Commander and you
3.1: Detection and Stealth
3.2: Version changes

2.1: Starting out
2500 points(build your army with this)
1 HQ building(this one is free, any other's cost points)

2.2: Points system
Points are earned by capturing Objectives, or killing enemy units, you use these points to upgrade your units/reinforce them anytime in the game, when killing an enemy unit, you get however many points that unit was worth(killing a Nob with a Power Klaw/Bosspole/'Eavy Armor will give you how many points all that is worth) but it will not steal it from the other player.

2.3: Objectives and capturing them
There are 12 Objectives(9 plus 3 Relics) Objected once captured provide an immediate boost of 100 points per player turn(so you get points during your turn and all of your opponents, same as them) the Relic allows you to bring the game into Apocalyptic proportions(literally allowing you to merge regular 40K with Apocalypse, Relics also give you 200 points per turn, to capture a relic or Objective, simple place one of your squads(any unit except vehicles) within 1" of them and hold it until the beginning of your next turn.

2.4: Reinforcements and upgrading units
Your squads start at half strength once they come out of the Barracks building(5 or 10 members, or less, depending on what your Codex says) and can be reinforced/upgraded with new weapons anywhere if both conditions are met:

1: Squad is not engaged with any enemy is close combat
2: Squad is 6 inches or more from an enemy unit

Reinforcing in the front line occurs during your assault phase, you CANNOT reinforce and assault, you must either reinforce, or assault, not both(this is to stop Horde armies from abuse)

As for building units, they can only be deployed within a 6" radius along their parent building.

2.5: Base Buildings/costs/AV
Base buildings are well, just that, each building has a special rule and it's own costs/strengths.

HQ: (ALL buildings must be kept within 14 inches around it no exceptions) also produces HQ units(Captains/Chaplains/Generals from your specific codex) any other HQ buildings can be built anywhere.

Barracks: produces Troops choices/Fast Attack infantry

Armoury: allows Wargear upgrades for all units(MUST BE ACTIVE TO ALLOW UPGRADES)

Vehicle Depot: allows production of Heavy Support/Elite/Fast Attack Vehicles MUST BE ACTIVE TO ALLOW VEHICLES

Orbital Relay: allows production of Elite/Heavy Support infantry

Forge World Maufactorum: Allows production of Apocalypse units(building requires a Relic to be captured)

The buildings, while names are set up to be Imperial designs, can always be renamed to something to fit your race, now we got that out of the way, let's look at costs/AV of buildings

HQ
Cost: 1200 points
AV: 14 on all sides

Barracks
Cost: 800 points
AV: 13 on all sides

Armoury
Cost: 600
AV: 10 on all sides

Vehicle Depot
Cost: 1000
AV: 11 on all sides

Orbital Relay
Cost: 900
AV: 12 on all sides

Forgeworld Manufactorum
Cost: 1600
AV: 14 on all sides

Twin-linked Heavy Stubber Turret
Cost: 450
AV: 8 on all sides

Upgrade:
Twin Linked Heavy Bolter cost: 55 points
Twin Linked Lascannon cost: 400
Twin linked Missile Launcher cost: 500(may use Frag or Krak missiles)

Listening post
Cost 500
AV: 7 on all sides

Upgrade:
Adds a Heavy Weapon(of your choice) but cannot be twin linked, and adds an extra AV going from 7 to 8 AV, Listening post not only defends objective, but grants an additional 100 per objective/relic per turn(so 200 per Objective, 300 per Relic)

2.6: Racial Abilities

Orks: Orks are naturally strong, which is why they can carry Choppa's with ease that a Man would find hard holding with one hand, though Choppa's are not power weapons, the Ork's natural strength combined with the Choppa can reduce enemy armor(a 2+ save gets reduced to a 3+ so on and so forth)

Space Marines: Space Marines can call upon PDF troopers(represented by Conscripts in the Imperial Guard Codex) from Listening posts, and can also transport units anywhere if they have access to a Thunderhawk.

Chaos Marines/Daemons: can warp in Daemons anywhere as long as they remain 12" from any enemy unit/building Daemons cannot capture objectives.

Eldar: Can build Webway's around the map anywhere(count as HQ buildings in being placed anywhere, but Webway portals cannot produce units. only transport, transportation takes 1 turn)

Dark Eldar: Dark Eldar can "enslave" other units enslaved units(units that lose morale are the only ones that can be enslaved) must be walked back to your base, Enslaved units can be rescued and recruited by any faction that rescues them, when the enslaved reach your base they produce 10 points per turn per soldier.

Grey Knights/Witch Hunters: being that, they can ally themselves with any(or all) other Imperial factions(excluding those manned by another player, unless the other player wishes to ally)

Tyranids: Genestealers can "dig" into difficult terrain and either wait for ambush, or can move through it freely(no longer counting it as difficult terrain) these units inside the Terrain can however be harmed by template on the roll of a 5+

Necrons: All Necrons are treated as fearless.

Tau: Tau can use their Special ability "Join the greater good!"
The Tau can Capture the following kinds of enemies if the unit was broken previously, this ability can be used once every player turn(the Tau player's turn) the only enemies you can use:

Captured Renegade Guardsmen
Captured Guardsmen
Captured Tau
Captured Kroot
Captured Vespid

1-2:"We spit in your face Alien!" (units fail to join the greater good and will resist for 2 more turns, don't bother rolling for them, it will automatically fail)

3-4:"Eh, your offer intrigues me Alien"(continue as normal)

5-6:"Yes! we submit to the Greater Good!" (soldier joins you)

Imperial Guard: Imperial Guard amy land troops anywhere on the field fi they have access to a Valkyrie, the Valkyrie may carry 1 Heavy Vehicle OR 2 Walker's OR 3 Infantry squads, if you took Colonel Schaeffer, the Imperial Guard may also include a "Penal Battalion" for free(not from the codex) that unit is as follows:

Penal Battalion
Cost: FREE
Units that MUST be in the battalion: 10(Schaeffer and 9 Penal Troopers)
Units that can make up Battalion: captured Renegade Guardsmen/Cultists/Guardsmen
Unit size: as many prisoners you want

The Imperial Guard are now subject to the Enslavement and Capturing rule

2.7: Enslavement and Capturing

Enclavement and Capturing are literally the same thing, except only captured units can be "convinced" to join your side, Enslaved units that are rescued will join anyone's side who rescued them(and keep the stats from their codex)

Units who have been morale broken(failed the morale check as you would take in regular 40K) can attempt to be captured/enslaved, with the following Die rolls:

Enslavement
1-2:"WE WILL NEVER BOW DOWN TO YOU!(Squad commits suicide)
3-4:"EVERY MAN FOR THEMSELF!"(the original owner loses control, as the Squads berzerks, this unit cannot disengage until it has killed the enemy, or if this unit is killed)
5-6:"Please! have mercy upon us!(this squad follows the unit that enslaved it back to base)

be warned, units that are enslaved can be rescued(whether en route to your base, or at your base) ALL enslaved units join their rescuer, regardless of previous faction.

Tyranids/Necrons and Fearless soldiers for obvious reasons cannot be enslaved

Capturing
1-3:"WE WILL NEVER BOW DOWN TO YOU!(Squad commits suicide)
4-6:"We surrender!"(Squad follows unit that captured it back to their base)

be warned, units that are captured can be rescued(whether en route to your base, or at your base) ALL captured units join their rescuer, regardless of previous faction.

Tyranids/Necrons and Fearless soldiers for obvious reasons cannot be captured

Imperial Guard Penal battalions are formed at the whim of the Guard Commander if you have 9 Legionnaires and Schaeffer, new prisoners can also join this battalion as long as the Battalion returns to base to collect them(afterall, would you trust a prisoner to run to the unit he's supposed to join? oh wait, these guys have explosive collars on them, never mind)

Tau can ask each soldier(and I mean each individual) to join the Greater good(as described in Racial abilities)

Whether their Captured or Enslaved each individual you capture/enslave gives you 5 points each turn(so 10 soldiers = 50 points) per turn

2.8: New units created specifically for DoW 2.5
Since no army can carry their own Apocalypse units into the field, this was designed for most armies(Tau/Eldar/Dark Eldar/Chaos/Imperial Guard/Space Marines/Witch Hunters/Daemon Hunters/Orks/Necrons) in mind sorry Nid players, your race has a different type.

Super Lander
AV: 14 on all sides
Speed: 24"
Cost: 400
built from: Forgeworld Manufactorum
Capacity: can carry 1 Apocalypse unit OR 4 Vehicles(Elite/Fast Attack or Heavy support choice vehicles) OR 5 Walkers OR 7 Infantry squads(6 plus the command Squad if using Guard) Lander must not have moved in previous turn if it wishes to drop off units this turn.
Need any further clarification? let me know, comments and Criticism's welcome.

Tyranid Spore ship
Not truly a ship, or transport, what did you expect?
Ability: roll a D6 for the following results

1: Your Spore ship plummets into Oblivion(lost the Super Heavy/units you were trying to bring it)
2-3: Your Spore Ship is experiencing difficulties(roll next turn)
4-5: Your Spore Ship lost it's direction tendrils, roll a 3d6 and Scatter die(add all 3 together) it moves that many inches in whichever direction, if you roll a hit, you choose direction
6: your Spore ship lands as ordered, new unit may disembark and shoot but not move

Transport Capacity: 1 Apocalypse unit OR 3 Heavy Support choices OR 4 Elites choices OR 5 Fast Attack choices OR 1 HQ choice AND 7 Troops choices

Apocalyptic Bunker
AV: 14 on all sides
Immobile
Capacity: 40 units
Cost: 2000
Special/description: These Bunker's were made to resist all but the strongest of weaponry, and to protect the commander of any operation, as such, these bunker's can ONLY be destroyed if they suffer a penetrating hit from a Strength D weapon, Glancing hits are shrugged off, and anything below strength D automatically fails.

WAAAGH! Banna
AV: 10 on all sides
Cost: 700
Race required: Orks
Description: a WAAAGH! Banna allows Ork character's to recruit more special characters(you need 6 WAAAGH! Banna's before a Special character will show up) this does not work with the game mode Terminate the Commander, these special characters still must be purchased(they only flock to your WAAAGH! if you can not only prove your big, but laso if you can pay them)

2.9: Game Modes

Free For All:
Players: 2-6
Description: just that, everyone for themself.

Team Deathmatch:
Players: 2-6
Description: teams are formed by the amount of players available ot keep it even.

Diplomacy:
Players: 2-6
Description: Starts out like Free For All, but teams can be made/broken ingame as needed.

Terminate the Commander:
Players: 2-6
Description: Everyone starts out with 1 Special Character(of your choosing) this is your commander, if he dies, you lose the game.

Land Grab:
Players: 2-6
Description: Land Grab is where you take Objectives and relics in a specified amount of turns(10 turns as basic, but you may change it to whatever you like)

3.0: Your Commander and You(in general game modes)

EVERY race gets 1 Special Character as their primary commander, Special Characters cannot be purchased, as times goes on(or if you send/tell me here) of suggestions more thant just the Orks can get special characters.

3.1: Detection and Stealth

some units(all described here) can be stealthed, this means they are invisible unless one of the following conditions are met:

1: 2" away from an enemy unit
2: Running during shooting phase
3: shooting(can be nullified with an upgrade)

Stealth units: Imperial Guard Ratlings, Necron Wraiths, Tau Stealth Suits, Imperial Assassin's(all of them), Ork Grotz, Eldar Webway portals, Eldar Rangers, Space Marine Scouts, Ork Kommandoz(more will be updated later)

Detector units and their ranged:

ALL Space Marine/Chaos Marine helmeted figures 6" range
ALL HQ units can detect at 8"
Psyker units can detect at 12"
Special Character's can detect up to 15"
Turrets/listening posts can detedt up to 13"

3.2: Version Changes

Version history: As I have not kept a log on events, this will not be taking log, so here we go.

Version 4 changes:

- Clarified deployment zone from each building
- Prevented Horde armies from being able to abuse reinforcement
- Added game mode "Land Grab"
- Clarified how to capture Objectives and Relics
- Added "Detection and Stealth"
- Added "Version changes"

Version 5 changes:

-Changed "Heavy Bolter turret" to "Twin-Linked Heavy Stubber turret)
-Allowed Twin-Linked Heavy Stubber turret to be upgraded to Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter turrets. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/422952/3785997.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/422952/3785997.page GMT Dawn of War 2.5 http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/422952/3786123.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/422952/3786123.page GMT Dawn of War 2.5

Dunwich wrote:Wow, you put a lot of work into that! Looks really cool. I don't think I could offer decent criticism on the rules without playing it though. I would love to see a battle report of it! Good job.

This has so far only been played in one battle(by someone at Heresy Online) said he loved it, and thought up some idea's, which the change log is where I put up what is new, I tried to make everything as close to Dawn of War as possible, but keeping it simple so if you understand normal 40K you can understand this.

This project is the result of about say, 5 months of tweaking(well, technically, 3 months) but I got it from Dawn of War 2.0 to Dawn of War 2.5 in 5 months because, I wasn't spending all my time on it.

I myself have never played it, as I have no one to play it with, lol.

I'm even trying to find someone to play it with over Vassal.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/422952/3786284.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/422952/3786284.page GMT Dawn of War 2.5
I'm open all afternoon tomorrow, but working now and sleeping till 4pm PST. We should be able to get half a large game in, before I go back to work, I would think.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/422952/3786314.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/422952/3786314.page GMT Re:Dawn of War 2.5 http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/422952/3786430.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/422952/3786430.page GMT Re:Dawn of War 2.5 How do you intend to track immediate upgrades on squads and reinforcements? Pen and paper? Counters? Memory?
Could get very very messy espeically at the 2500 points level you propose. I would start out at 1000 point, run some test games and see where that leads you.

I havent gone through it in depth im afraid but a few things that popped out:

simple place one of your squads(any unit except vehicles) within 1" of them and hold it until the beginning of your next turn.

Can enemy units contest these?

Under buildings you specify other buildings bought must be placed within 14" of the parent HQ. But what if my definition of a building is different to yours? What if my barracks s 4x4" squard but yours is 12x12" square? I think if buildings are going to so important to the ruleset you need to have specific and measurable sizes with no deviation for fairness.

You state barracks, vehicle depot must "be active" to allow units to come in. What does this mean?

Considering how important vehicles are in 40k you have the depot at AV11 and costing 1000? That means anyone with str6+ can take it out and it will cost you 1000 to replace it?
Whereas the barracks has AV13 and is only 800?
I dont agree with that discrepency Im afraid :(
Also the armory is vitally important for squad upgrades and is only AV10? A heavy bolter could take that out. Considering the buildings cost a significant amount of points I would have them all at least AV13.

Racial abilities are totally off imho.
For example the Nid bonus is Stealers digging in and moving through terrain (thats not really a good racial bonus tbh) whereas Necrons get fearless army wide?

Tau have the potential to take control of enemy units? What if it was a tooled up unit of Vets but GKs only get to ally? That is not fair.
As for the Eldar one all I can say is ouch! How lethal could that be?

I think they need a severe reworking/thinking out. As they stand some are useless, some are OTT, some are just strange.

The new units as well are totally skewed.
The Super lander has AV14 all round and can carry 7 units but the Nid one has an 84% chance to do nothing useful? Totally unbalanced Im afraid.

Who can purchase apoc bunkers? Everyone?

For the waaaagh banner you need 6 of thembefore you can summon a special character? Thats 4200 points. Dont think many games will see 4200 points worth of troops or objectives captured.
Pointless.

Dont get me wrong, I hope the criticism didnt come across too harshly, its a very interesting basic idea but some of the rules need a real modification I feel.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/422952/3787291.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/422952/3787291.page GMT Dawn of War 2.5 http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/422952/3787539.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/422952/3787539.page GMT Re:Dawn of War 2.5

Ratius wrote:Its quite an interesting idea. However Im not sure how it work in a real time game.
How do you intend to track immediate upgrades on squads and reinforcements? Pen and paper? Counters? Memory?
Could get very very messy espeically at the 2500 points level you propose. I would start out at 1000 point, run some test games and see where that leads you.

I havent gone through it in depth im afraid but a few things that popped out:

simple place one of your squads(any unit except vehicles) within 1" of them and hold it until the beginning of your next turn.

I realised I relied too much on common sense

the WAAAGH! Banna, I mean't to bring down to 4 per special character, points come in as oyu kill people or hold objectives(if you didn;'t read that bit) by active, it means it must be alive.

all of the DoW 2.5 units can be purchased by everyone unless otherwise stated, Tau have ot be within 6" to capture a unit that failed morale(or have ot surround it) same with Dark Eldar.

Actrually, the Nid one is more OP IMO, oyu can call it ANYWHERE, the Super lander for most races MUST come from a Forgeworld Manufactorum

lol, you didn't read the beginning, I said it's turnbased(just, re-read the otp sentence)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/422952/3788245.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/422952/3788245.page GMT Re:Dawn of War 2.5

I realised I relied too much on common sense

the WAAAGH! Banna, I mean't to bring down to 4 per special character, points come in as oyu kill people or hold objectives(if you didn;'t read that bit) by active, it means it must be alive.

I know you gain points from unit kills and obj holding but I still cant see how you will get 4200 in a game. Thats an aweful lot of points to accumlate just for the ability to bring in a single extra character.

Actrually, the Nid one is more OP IMO, oyu can call it ANYWHERE, the Super lander for most races MUST come from a Forgeworld Manufactorum

Yes but still only lands where you want 16% of the time, pretty poor. Bringing it in anywhere helps somewhat but not a great deal.

So the super lander can be used by all races? Thats fair enough.

lol, you didn't read the beginning, I said it's turnbased(just, re-read the otp sentence)

I did read that. I dont see the point though. Of course its turn based, the whole 40k/apoc ruleset is turn based. What else would it be?

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/422952/3794624.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/422952/3794624.page GMT Dawn of War 2.5 http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/422952/3794834.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/422952/3794834.page GMT Re:Dawn of War 2.5

Ratius wrote:

I realised I relied too much on common sense

the WAAAGH! Banna, I mean't to bring down to 4 per special character, points come in as oyu kill people or hold objectives(if you didn;'t read that bit) by active, it means it must be alive.

Actrually, the Nid one is more OP IMO, oyu can call it ANYWHERE, the Super lander for most races MUST come from a Forgeworld Manufactorum

Yes but still only lands where you want 16% of the time, pretty poor. Bringing it in anywhere helps somewhat but not a great deal.

So the super lander can be used by all races? Thats fair enough.

lol, you didn't read the beginning, I said it's turnbased(just, re-read the otp sentence)

I did read that. I dont see the point though. Of course its turn based, the whole 40k/apoc ruleset is turn based. What else would it be?

I'm still working out alot of bugs(pun intended) the Nids, I think are kinda unfair in their rules, they can brign a ittan down into your space for FREE as long as they had points for that bio titan(whras other races have to buy the super lander then transport it)

I am also going to diversify the different Marine/Chaos marine legions/chapter's(mostly Chaos for now, as form ost Mairne Chapter's I plan on redoing Ill have to pick up a dex or borrow one)

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/422952/3797711.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/422952/3797711.page GMT