disturedspider wrote:I was think of running one of them, but after some research i found both rather expensive (both points and cash)

UberhAxTHC wrote:Warptime was nerfed really bad in the latest FAQ. It's not even really worth taking anymore. Lash Princes are THE competitive choice now. The only other HQ I would consider for CSM at this point is a Khorne lord with lightning claws. Even Lash got nerfed, but not that bad. With CSM, you need to be awake that 80% of the units in our codex suck. I don't just mean they're "ok, and have their uses". I mean they suck.

Let me give a full unit rundown for you, so you can decide for yourself what you want to run.
Daemon Princes are the best HQ choice we have. They're one of two reasons people choose to play CSM over normal marines (other than fluff). If you're all about being competitive, bring two. Gear them up to your liking, but always take wings.
Chaos Lords are "ok." They don't completely suck, but they're nowhere near as useful as a DP. DPs help win games. This guy helps win a combat.
Chaos Sorcerers are about the same as lords. Their only good value is using Lash while hiding in a unit, something a DP can't do.
Possessed suck. Don't even think about it. Moving on.
Chaos Dreads are kinda risky, but now that the FAQ has cleared up the LOS issue, they're slightly better. They still have a chance to do something you don't want them to 1/3 of the time though. They can be good, if you're lucky.
Chaos Terminators are the bomb. Best elites choice we have by far. Can do just about everything effectively.
Chaos Chosen have their uses, but aren't really hardcore competitive. Outflanking in a Rhino with 5 meltaguns is their best ploy. Can work if you're lucky.
Chaos Space Marines are just that. Marines. They know fear, though, which doesn't have to be a bad thing. About average on the whole scale of things. But we're not looking for average, are we?
Khorne Berzerkers are really, really good on the charge. You have to get them there though. And if you get assaulted or shot, they die just as easily as regular marines. And since they're kinda expensive, that really sucks.
Thousand Sons have one purpose only. To kill basic MEQ. Anything else will destroy them. Not for an all comers list.
Noise Marines are kinda silly. Loading them up with sonic blasters makes a very good all around unit, good at shooting and assault. The downside is that they're not the best at either, and they're expensive as crap, and die just like regular marines.
Plague Marines are the obvious competitive choice in troops for CSM. Feel no pain, T5, and 2 special weapons with just 5 of them. Makes other armies jealous.
Ignore CSM's fast attack section. They're not for serious gaming. I've heard large squads of Raptors with mark of Nurgle can make a decent assault unit though, but that would be expensive, and probably not worth it.
In your Heavy Support Slots, you really can't make any bad choices. Anything you take here will be effective. However, Obliterators are the best unit in our codex, by far. 2 Daemon Princes and 9 Obliterators is the best start to any competitive CSM army.

So basically, you want 2 Daemon Princes, 9 Obliterators, troops of Plague Marines in Rhinos, and some terminators. Everything else....is just a toy.

UberhAxTHC wrote: So basically, you want 2 Daemon Princes, 9 Obliterators, troops of Plague Marines in Rhinos, and some terminators. Everything else....is just a toy.

So basically, you want 2 Daemon Princes, 9 Obliterators, troops of Plague Marines in Rhinos, and some terminators. Everything else....is just a toy.

junk wrote:It's unfortunate right now that CSM can't hang with a lot of the top lists out there, but I've found CSM to be rewarding and fun if you're willing to play hard and smart.

Personally, I love the crap out of khorne berserkers. I usually field 2 decently sized units of them and 2 small units of plague marines. I'll also run a minimum of 4 obliterators because they're fantastic.

If I do run terminators, I run them in small squads, usually 4 man squads, as clean up and heat sinks.

Daemon Princes are great, I use Lash Princes in tandem with my berserkers to make sure I get the charge, as opposed to the normal strategy of grouping units to blast with obliterators.

I also like throwing in greater daemons on occasion because they're relatively cheap for how brutal they are, and if you can coordinate your movement right, they appear where you need them.

CSM is still a good assault army, despite how outdated the codex is; but in order to really compete with them it's still just nurgle and oblits.

Chaos terminators are cheap enough to be fielded in large numbers and weather a lot of shooting, once you start dropping marks on them and upgrading their wargear, the price can go up pretty fast. I prefer MoT on terminators for the inv boost, but as CSM is pretty much my 'fun' army, I'll pull them out in games where it's not so frowned upon to say 'These Tzeench themed terminators actually have the MoS (or the MoN)'.

CSM was the first army I really got behind, and I love big fluffy undivided lists led by abbadon and a daemon prince, with all 4 marked troops, and a handful of oblits and terminators. Even though it doesn't win as often as my other armies, It's still a fun game because no matter what the mission objectives are, I pretend its a KP game and just try to demoralize my opponent with reckless aggression.

If I were taking CSM to a tournament though, it would probably be all plague marines and obliterators.