<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "BAO mission: GK vs. DE"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/17.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net BAO mission: GK vs. DE RB missions all at once, so 3 SG markers, the 2 CnC objectives and KPs. You win the game if you win the majority of the missions. Props to the BAO organizers for a cool, simple, new way to play.

Games with OverwatchCNC are always fun, whether I get pasted or I managed to beat him. So I'm looking forward to this. I've got in a few BAO missions already, and IIRC he just had the one against poster Sand. **

**This is incorrect. OverwatchCNC corrects me in post #3.



OverwatchCNC's list

1750 pts Grey Knights

HQ
Coteaz
Librarian MoT, Summoning, Shrouding, Teleport Homer

Troops:
7x DCA
3x Warrior Acolytes Razorback w/ Psybolt ammo and Warp Stabilization Field
3x Warrior Acolytes Razorback w/ Psybolt ammo and Warp Stabilization Field
3x Warrior Acolytes Razorback w/ Psybolt ammo and Warp Stabilization Field
10 Terminators w/ 2xPsycannons 2x Hammers 8x Halberds

Fast:
Stormraven MM and Psybolt Ammo

Heavy:
3x Psyfleman Dreads

Dark Eldar:
HQ
haem liquifier
haem shattershard
Elite
4 Trueborn w/ blasters - dakka venon
4 Trueborn w/ blasters - dakka venon
4 Trueborn w/ blasters - dakka venon
Troops
8 wyches, Hekagonizer haywires, raider FF
8 wyches, Hekagonizer haywires, raider FF
5 warriors - dakka venom
5 warriors - dakka venom
Fast Attack
BeastMasters -
6 razorwingflocks
3 khymeras
4 BMs, one with agonizer
Heavy Support
Ravager - FF
Ravager - FF
Ravager - FF

Pre-Game thinking:
I think I've got more shooting, not much more. 23 lances, 5 venoms. He has the SRG, 3 Psyflemen. All are the bane of DE skimmers, so I'm worried about those. HB Razorbacks are also likely to get a glance on my paper airplanes.

When you look at how the terrain is, I'm happy with the side OW (OverwatchCNC) chose, as my side has a ruin that blocks LoS. Good for my fragile warriors and a few vehicles.

He's *not* running Paladins. I figure OW knows something I don't about GK termies, but this is an immense relief to not have to deal with WoundAllocationShenanigans. Also, henchmen and razorbacks look like easy KPs, but OW has a lot of RTT First Place finishes under his belt, so this will still be a big challenge.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

GK's C&C objective is in the crater. There are two SeizeGround objectives in the picture, one on the left in open ground; it's got a little white flag. Another is in the Diff-Terrain of the center piece. The 3rd one will be on a hill to the right in subsequent pictures. Overwatch won first turn, so I'm placing everything in Reserve.

This is the GK deployment. There's another psyfileman dread on the third story of a ruin on my right flank. It has great LoS over most of the table.



The rest of the batrep will be coming up later today.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/426147/3845695.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/426147/3845695.page GMT BAO mission: GK vs. DE http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/426147/3845829.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/426147/3845829.page GMT BAO mission: GK vs. DE
Dok wrote:OMG yellow text is killing me!
There's no 'grey' text, but I'll change it. Heh, "brown" on the black background changes to burgundy.

Dok wrote:You might be a little light on the tank punching, but if you get good reserve rolls, you should be able to put a decent alpha strike on him.
23 lances at 1750 are light, huh?

And for goodness' sake! The term "Alpha Strike" means Turn 1 Assault. Oy!
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/426147/3845853.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/426147/3845853.page GMT BAO mission: GK vs. DE BAO missions over 10 times prior to this battle! The game with Sand was 2 days after the missions were posted and I was still using SW then. So I don't count that draw! Just kidding it counts. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/426147/3846023.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/426147/3846023.page GMT Re:BAO mission: GK vs. DE Grey Knight Turns 1 and 2
The GKs move forward. Turn 2, razors pop smoke & SRG Flat Outs.


Dark Eldar Turn 2

My C&C objective is the two oil barrels in the GW ruin on the second floor.
I get in two Ravagers. I place one here on the left along with a Wyche boat, a Venom of TruBlasters, another Venom with Kabalites ...




and the Beast Master unit, and barely seen to the right, the second Rav. This is the hill with the 3rd SG objective.


Most other shooting is not significant. Venoms at Termies, killing none. A few lances at other pysflemen = nada.

I'm Shocked and Awed. The Psyfleman not shown in deployment? It's in the distance. It is a pleasant surprise that I manage to destroy a psyfileman on my first salvo. I'm also surprised at scoring the first KP, let alone it being a GK Psyfleman. This is from the ravager's POV , although the focus on the dead dread is lacking.



Seize Ground - GKs 1, DE 0
C&C - 1 each
KPs - GK 0, DE 1

Grey Knight Turn 3

The SRG Flat Outs and the rest do the usual moving up and such.

In shooting the Trueborn's Venom gets wrecked. The Rav looses its shoot out with the 2 Psyfilemen (not surprised). The Warrior Venom is shaken. The terminators shoot the BeastMaster unit. After looking at it, I forgot that we called the hill "open Terrain" and I'm worried about no Cover Saves. However, due to OW's poor rolls, little happens, as I put the wounds on the Khymeras and amazingly I only lose one.



Dark Eldar Turn 3

Reserves: Third Ravager and Trueborn Venom which I bring to the main fight on my left. The second Warrior Venom I brought in on the right. Still in Reserve a wyche boat.

Movement
I move the wyche boat over to the SRG and decide to risk surrounding the base with the girls, and then nailing it with upward of 11 lances (Rav on the right, 3 Trublasters, 4 more in newly arrived Venom, and the raider).

Shooting:
1. The right hand ravager does good again; it wrecks the CnC objective squatting razorback.
2. I managed to Immobilize the SRG, which now that I think of it, ought to have been wrecked having gone Flat Out the Turn before. Oops.


Seize Ground - GKs 1, DE 0
C&C - 1 each
KPs - GK 2, DE 2

Grey Knight Turn 4

1. The raider is Immobilized.
2. Left-H Ravager is immobilized (barely out of shot on the left. The wrecked one is in front of it).
3. The Trubeorn venom is Exploded, killing one Trueborn passenger, but they pass Morale and Pinning. The Trueborn already on the ground lose a member to shrapnel, but pass morale. As Overwatch said, it could have gone worse.




Dark Eldar Turn 4
Reserves: The other wyche boat comes in.

Out of shot:
Warrior Venom takes a chance and Flat Outs heading for the GK CnC objective.

A lot of action:
1. Left-H ravager immobilizes his far left Psyfleman.
2. Beast Masters will assault the termies and bounce off them. I had the unit too strung out to bring all their attacks to bear. I'd lose Morale and Fall Back.
3. My first set of blue-haied wyches go after the razorback and haywire it. I am not keen on them tangling with the terminators, even though the BMs will get in their too. The Razor will get Immobilized by Lance fire, and the girls will knock off its Heavy Bolter.
4. A raider DL shot Explodes a forward razorback and, IIRC, the henchmen die.

I really tried to surround the SRG's base with wyches and a haemoncuous, so as to trap the passengers. I go with haywires as it was Immobilized. 5 Glances and 1 Punch. The Glance results were great, with 5 Weapons Destroyed and another Immobilize, enough to kill it, and let the passengers inside roast. OW says to roll the Penetrate too. Oh, right, no problem. I do, and it Explodes! Not good for wyches standing next to it. They actually survive its explosion intact. Coteaz, the libby and seven DCAs survive. Pass Pinning, too.



Seize Ground - GKs 1, DE 0
C&C - 1 each
KPs - GK 3, DE 5


Grey Knight Turn 5
1. The mobile Psyfleman rolls quite badly to "pen" my rav, getting two 2s and two 1s.
2. The other Left-H ravager dies, though.

Coteaz, the DCAs and libby assault the wyches, raider and the haem I dismebarked to cover a hatch. Oy. I lose the raider and haem. Two wyches will survive, bt blow Morale and beat the sweep advance. They'll be off the table in a Turn. OW takes a leap forward on the KP portion of the missions. It does cost the GKs quite a few DCAs though.




Dark Eldar Turn 5
Beast Master unit is too close to the libby to rally. They and the pair of wyches run off the table.
Last unit arrives from Reserves, which we screwed up: I had the Trueborn walk on, and the Venom fly on separately. Eh.

It shot some termies.

Between 3 units of Trublasters and 5 warriors, I smoke Coteaz and a remaining DCA. Rolling was terrible. I really ought to have been able to nail the libby, too. Oy.

Out of shot:
The CnC objective of the GK is held by 3 henchmen behind the wrecked razorback. The Warrior venom on that side Flat Outs to get to it again, and this time, is right up on the lip of the crater, looking like a good 3 inches.


Seize Ground - GKs 1, DE 0
C&C - GK contested (likely so, but we didn't measure), DE 1
KPs - GK 8, DE 5

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
If the game had ended here, OW would win, but BAO missions are supposed to go to 6 Turns.


Grey Knight Turn 6

The termies shoot the 3 blue-haired wyches into paste. The mobile psyfleman takes shots at the Right-H Rav, but again, does poorly. The other Psyfleman just has a 45 degree angle on my latest Trueborn arrivals.

The libby shoots up a trio of Trueborn and all three die, denying the Libby an assault.

Dark Eldar Turn 6

Out of shot:
The henchmen on their C&C objective die to loads of Venom fire, yielding me his CnC objective, uncontestedA raider gets the rear shot on the last razorback and I earn another KP.

The Henchmen disembark and we discussed it a bit on whether or not they could've used the right or rear hatches of the razorback with my venom within 2" of the side hatch and the haem within 2" of the rear. Since neither the haem nor venom score objectives, it wasn't too relevant .

Combined venom shooting, ShatterShard (killed one) causes the Termies to take Morale. OW rolls boxcars, pulling them off the center objective. That hurt OW's chances a lot. If they hadn't broke, I would have assaulted with the haem, and Defenders React would have done the same thing.



Seize Ground - GKs 0, DE 0, one contested
C&C - GK contested (likely, we didn't measure), DE 1
KPs - GK 10, DE 7


SG Objectives 1 contested = TIE
C&C - DE wins, controlling both
KPs - GKs win, 12 to 10

With both of us winning one mission each, but no one Securing a majority of SG objectives, we achieve a :

Tie!

Yellow, for you, Dok.

A great game, coming down to the wire.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/426147/3847365.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/426147/3847365.page GMT BAO mission: GK vs. DE IG and current DE player got the skimmer rules wrong! Just goes to show we all make mistakes I guess.

I am beginning to rethink the stormraven bomb list...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/426147/3847445.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/426147/3847445.page GMT BAO mission: GK vs. DE
OverwatchCNC wrote:Meh. I can't be,ieve we botched the SR being immobilized after flar out would be destroyed! That means you probably would have won.
Big oops. Yeah.

We'd discussed the whole "surrounding the base" thing, but I'd just forgot the last import step: If you do it to SRGs that had gone Flat Out and you've got a 50% chance of killing off the passengers because it'll wreck on a "Immobilize". Ah, well.

I've been playing too much C:CSM and daemons lately, forgetting things like that.

OverwatchCNC wrote:I need to play with skimmers more often! And to think a former IG and current DE player got the skimmer rules wrong! Just goes to show we all make mistakes I guess.

I am beginning to rethink the stormraven bomb list...
And I think you should rethink termies over pallies. Wound Allocation Shenanigans would've kept 'em from needing a Morale Check, by spreading things out.

We'll have a rematch at some point.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/426147/3847514.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/426147/3847514.page GMT BAO mission: GK vs. DE
Coteaz

Venerable Dreadnaught
2x TL Autocannons
Psybolt Ammo

Venerable Dreadnaught
2x TL Autocannons
Psybolt Ammo

3x Henchmen
3x Melta
Las/ Plas Razorback

3x Henchmen
3x Melta
Las/ Plas Razorback

3x Henchmen
3x Melta
Las/ Plas Razorback


3x Henchmen
3x Melta
Assault cannon w/ Psybolts Razorback


3x Henchmen
3x Melta
Assault cannon w/ Psybolts Razorback

3x Henchmen
3x Melta
Assault cannon w/ Psybolts Razorback

Dreadnaught
2x TL Autocannons
Psybolt Ammo

Dreadnaught
2x TL Autocannons
Psybolt Ammo

Dreadnaught
2x TL Autocannons
Psybolt Ammo

Leaves 108pts free for the 1750 mark. Sorry if this is out of place, just my thoughts on the matter. Makes them able to better deal with more vehicles, more multiple shots for Hordes and Venerables make great tarpits for anything that slips through.

Looks like a great game. Thanks for putting it up. It's great to see some well painted armies out there. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/426147/3847698.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/426147/3847698.page GMT BAO mission: GK vs. DE CC potential. I found while playing SW and IG that no matter how good you are at shooting you need to be able to assault and win sometimes. I also believe a more balanced list has better chances of doing well in a large field like the BAO than an unbalanced list. Good players can usually find a relatively easy way to overcome your unbalanced list.

For example against the list you have above, at the BAO where there is plenty of LoS blocking terrain I would hide everything as far from you as possible and reserve the SR . This would force you to hang back and wait for me to get impatient or come toward me. I would then Flat out the SR when it comes on into your lines that have approached or get close. Use Summoning on the termies next turn and move everything else out to shoot while the DCA unit will, hopefully get into your lines. Not perfect and certainly open to getting beaten. I just don't think one trick pony lists can hang competitively.

Then again I am not sure my current list can hang either...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/426147/3847783.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/426147/3847783.page GMT BAO mission: GK vs. DE cc potential for shooting. It's basically razorspam done cheaper with better support units. On the competitive scene I foresee it doing well, though I haven't had the chance to playtest it myself. Got tired of my GK's before I had the chance to refine my list to the extreme. It is something I will be looking into once my Necrons are done though.

With your list I like the Terminator hammer unit. It's a great balance to the small Henchmen squads. Have you thought about giving the Henchmen weapons so they can actually fulfil a battlefield role if they need to? Currently they just sit on objectives and that's it.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/426147/3847819.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/426147/3847819.page GMT BAO mission: GK vs. DE CC threat balances the list I think. And the terminators provide a tough scoring unit to offset the weakness of the less resilient scoring units. I am currently testing a list that is similar but has more CC potential as well as the ability to have tougher scoring units. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/426147/3857799.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/426147/3857799.page GMT Re:BAO mission: GK vs. DE LOS blocking terrain and from bad shooting. Granted, there are quite a few shots to come out of the army, at the end of the day, 2 turns of lackluster shooting can result in a really bad day for the army.

Just this weekend, a buddy and I played a test game with my Wolves and he found that unless he can bring everything to bear, he would lose out the moment a halfway decent CC element arrived. That's the reason why Neil from the 11th Company takes either a Storm Raven or Land Raider filled with DCA's and a Librarian or Techmarine.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/426147/3858513.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/426147/3858513.page GMT Re:BAO mission: GK vs. DE
Unholy_Martyr wrote:Having played against a Henchmen list such as yours Lukus, I have to say that it suffers greatly in events that have decent LOS blocking terrain and from bad shooting. Granted, there are quite a few shots to come out of the army, at the end of the day, 2 turns of lackluster shooting can result in a really bad day for the army.

Just this weekend, a buddy and I played a test game with my Wolves and he found that unless he can bring everything to bear, he would lose out the moment a halfway decent CC element arrived. That's the reason why Neil from the 11th Company takes either a Storm Raven or Land Raider filled with DCA's and a Librarian or Techmarine.


So far it seems to be working out that DCAs are much better if you have a grenade dispenser like a Techmarine or Xeno Inquisitor. Rad Grenades are great for pulping Paladins in CC with DCAs and all you need is two hammer hands to make that happen. Coteaz+Xeno Inq with psyker upgrade and Rad Grenades (psychotroke too)+DCAs casting 2 hammerhands have taken out 7 Paladins in a round of combat, much to the chagrin of my opponent.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/426147/3902344.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/426147/3902344.page GMT