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At the risk of sounding like a complete moron, I'd like to propose rules for compatibility of Fantasy and 40k units rules-wise. I love my IG, and I also love my Dwarfs, and with enough time I think it'd be fun to implement multiple units into one army from both sides AND seamlessly integrate whole armies from Fantasy into 40k battles and vice-versa. PLEASE do not take this too seriously! It is silly and I realize that but I think it could be fun!

Before I get gunned down, just let me say that fluff is out of the question. I don't care about the fact that a Dwarf axe wouldn't be able to do jack squat (no pun intended) to hardly anything including flak armour and they'd get torn to shreds by even lasguns. I just think it'd be a fun little excursion, to be able to throw some Fantasyhammer units into a 40k game or two. All stats would be the same, so yes that means Dwarfs (I'm just using them as an example since it's the only army I'm truly familiar with through and through) would often be on equal footing with Space Marines in terms of strength and toughness.

I have put a small bit of thought into this, but I'm sure you, the community, has more knowledge of overall rules for both 40k and Fantasy seeing as how I just started playing 40k little more than a year ago and Fantasy maybe 6 months ago.

Biggest problems I saw:

1. Most Fantasy units probably don't have anything to crack tanks since they have no equipment like Melta weapons and such specifically made for anti-armor. That makes fighting vehicle armies hell for everyone.

My remedy? Write up basic rules for some of the weapons i.e. runic dwarf weapons or war machines, and perhaps give some cavalry the spear weapons of the IG Rough Riders. I know that nearly every army barring Wood Elves has a fair compliment of war machines they can bring to bear to be adapted for vehicle combat, and it would be fairly simple to make amendments to certain weapons that seem like they'd be apt at vehicle killing if anything such as aforementioned runic and magic weapons and "heavy" weapons like spears or great weapons. Also, keep monstrous creatures in mind. I know a well-used tree man could plow straight through my Leman Russ lines without a second thought if he gets lucky based on strength alone. As in the 40k rulebook, monstrous creatures deal an extra D6 for armour penetration, giving them 2D6 plus Strength for armour penetration. More rules will come later for what I can think of, but I'll need to get my hands on some more codices beforehand. Most of these augmentations would have to be individualized for each Fantasy army's wargear.

2. 40k Is very shooty, Fantasy hammer is not. Many armies could get knocked out in the first fusillade of fire from the 40k army.

However, most of what I can see of Fantasyhammer still has good armor saves, and perhaps ward spells can be expanded to simply include all shooting weapons besides things like flamers and blast templates. Plus, many Fantasy armies have a good amount of missile weapons when needed, and some (such as wood elves) have extremely powerful special effects like insta-kill arrows which my cannon crews and thanes have often fallen victim to. Also, seeing as how most Fantasy armies are based around close combat, they are built to withstand shooting to GET to close combat. If I expect my dwarf warriors to be doing some traveling and get shot at along the way, I make sure they have at least an armour save of 4+ from shields! I'm assuming most other armies have similar ways to keep their units from being shot up, whether it's raising more dead for Vampire Counts or regeneration or simple hard-to-kill-ness of something like Tomb Kings. I always have a hard time shooting up anything my Wood Elf friend lays on the field because of his clever use of cover, even if they are in range of my Thunderers every turn.
This is something that I know would need more in-depth reworking. This is where I definitely need the ingenuity of the Dakka community. Gimme some ideas and I'll work with you to make it work!

3. Movement is very different, including unit coherency.

I say, let the units be incoherent! Use the basic movement rules from Fantasyhammer for marching, running, etc. to determine movement distance, but they shouldn’t need to be in blocks; that would just cause an entire unit to be wiped out by a single ordnance blast. Keep them within 2 inches just like 40k units. However, since close combat requires the units to all go into base contact anyways, just have them loosely reform if need be for the combat based on the rough estimate of how they were beforehand.

4. Close combat: Basic idea in my mind is 40k units use 40k rules, Fantasyhammer use Fantasy rules.

Spearmen, ranks, and such would be the same as in Fantasy and the close combat is calculated nearly exactly the same in terms of wounds and such. When a Fantasy unit enters close combat with a 40k unit, the fantasy army immediately reforms into ranks based on their previous positions, as stated before. To-hit and to-wound are exactly the same from my readings of both rulebooks. Models which may attack are relatively equivalent; once the Fantasy unit forms its ranks, the first and second ranks may both attack, and the third rank in a horde with 10 or more models per rank. 40k units in base contact (which are essentially the first rank) can attack, as well as any within two inches of the "first rank." No problems here.
The part where it gets sticky is resolution… I understand the points system from Fantasy well enough, but putting it into 40k... Ranks, standards, and such wouldn’t be present to the 40k army so it seems like it would be simpler to use the 40k resolution based solely on wounds inflicted, but that takes a lot out of the essence of Fantasy close combat which is what I believe makes the game much of the time!
Now I do have some simple alterations whipped up to the Fantasy points system, but... eh. It might work, it might not, but I could use some ol' elbow grease from you guys to temper these ideas!
Anyways, as I'm sure you probably know, Fantasy resolution is based on:
1. Wounds inflicted
2. Charge
3. Ranks
4. Standards
5. Flank and Rear Attacks
6. The High Ground

So, what could be changed? Wounds inflicted are very obviously perfectly compatible. One point per unsaved wound. The charge point goes to whoever charged. Ranks... Well, Fantasy army is easy enough, but for 40k, err... Perhaps break the unit into "ranks" based on coherency; keep the models within 2 inch coherency lengthwise, but every model in the unit must move as close as it can to the enemy when Pile-In! takes effect each turn, so the models have the lowest amount of space between them going towards the enemy. Then, measure the distance from the front of the unit to the back (relative to the enemy). Every 2 inches (or 3?) counts as one rank, provided that the unit never dips under a certain width (need suggestions!)

5. Magic and dispelling: Magic is, obviously, entirely different. Even Dwarfs, who don’t even use spells, get a dispel pool. Of course, as I said I don’t know any other armies well enough in Fantasy to claim knowledge, so I honestly don’t know how magic casting works to them individually except for if a spellcaster does something wrong his head can explode. I’m a bit lost on this one too I suppose, though I imagine homebrew rules for warp vs magic can be pounded out by some veteran players.
My ideas;
First, dispelling for 40k armies against a casting Fantasy army is exactly the same as a normal Fantasy army trying to dispel. They get the lower D6 rolled by the caster in dispel dice and for every spellcaster the 40k army rolls a D6 and on a roll of 6 they get another die added to their dispel pool.
Second, dispelling 40k cast spells with a Fantasy dispeller... again I'm a bit blank on this one. I feel that the Fantasy army SHOULD be able to dispel the 40k warp spells, seeing as how the 40k should be able to do the same. A simple suggestion was an opposed leadership test, with the difference of the character's leadership added to the caster's test. For example, a L8 40k psyker attempts a spell against a L9 Fantasy wizard. The psyker will add 1 to the leadership test result because the wizard has one higher leadership point. If the psyker can't make the test, the strain was too great and his powers can't be harnessed. Next, the wizard makes his opposed roll. If he rolls lower than what the psyker rolled, he manages to overpower the psyker's warp spell with his own magical power, and the spell is negated. If the psyker's augmented leadership is passed and he is not overpowered by the wizard, his spell functions as normal. Perils of the Warp takes its toll as normal on a double 1 or double 6.

Anyways, I just felt like it may be a fun idea for those of us who enjoy throwing fluff to the winds once in a while. Plus, as the rulebook says, “The most important rule is that none of the rules are important,”

More coming soon hopefully! I definitely appreciate any and all comments and suggestions!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/429814/3911865.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/429814/3911865.page GMT 40k shooting. When basic grunts are equipped with S4 weapons that hit your Dwarves from 24" that 4+ save all of a sudden isn't that good (BTW, how would the AP system work?).

Furthermore, any dedicated assault unit will waste a Fantasy unit, as every 40k model gets to fight with it's full number of attacks. 5 Khorne Berzerkers charging your Dwarves will completely waste them, especially if you decide to use the Fantasy AP system.

Thirdly, some Fantasy armies like High Elves would be unplayable due to the ranged weapons of 40k.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/429814/3912619.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/429814/3912619.page GMT 40K, but ALL the fantasy armies would likely need to be completly redone in terms of stats, equipment and abilities.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/429814/3912627.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/429814/3912627.page GMT
However, I think you may be OVER estimating the power of shooting. The AP system I detailed in the first post would result in most 40k armies probably still having their saves but failing them much more often, decreasing the amount of massed full-unit volleys of fire and more flee tests due to their squads getting picked off slowly but more methodically. For Fantasy, however, they would run the same as do 40k units under normal conditions. If a Dwarf unit with heavy armor and a hand shield got hit by a S4 AP5 flamer or Bolter, they'd keep their full 4+ armor save and be wounded on a 4+, same as a Space Marine.

As I said before also, I know the rules for close combat would need to be reworked immensely, and someone in the WHFB Proposed Rules section I believe may be on to something with treating the 40k units as skirmishers but since that's where Fantasy games are made or broken that's what would take the most time.

For Fantasy, magic is so much more expansive from what I've read that it may prove to be an even opponent to 40k shooting one way or another.

As for armies being unplayable... Anything is possible. If they can't combat enemies at range then they should be able to close quick enough to kill, then, shouldn't they?

Personally, I see no reason why High Elves couldn't be used to great effect against any 40k army and I think they'd be a great candidate for initial rules conversion. Plus I think they'd give for a great fight!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/429814/3953113.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/429814/3953113.page GMT It would feel odd, look odd and... meh

And the rules are to different mate ! there is a whole balance in 40k ( haha despite some serious cheese at times .... )

So i am a pessimist, and i think this shouldnt be done :(

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/429814/3953182.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/429814/3953182.page GMT