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				<title>Iraqi woman almost beaten to death in California, subsequently dies</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46845257/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/#.T25y4aN5mSN" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/<span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(269);'>id</span>/46845257/<span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(546);'>ns</span>/us_news-crime_and_courts/#.T25y4aN5mSN</a><br /> <br /> My ideal scenario:<br /> <br /> The kind of guys that did this get matched up with their opposite number, such as the terroists in Iraq and Afghanistan and we have a show ala "The Deadliest Warrior", without the computer simulation but the real deal.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Sun, 25 Mar 2012 01:33:22]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Relapse]]></author>
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				<title>Iraqi woman almost beaten to death in California</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Disgusting.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Sun, 25 Mar 2012 02:18:30]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Monster Rain]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Iraqi woman almost beaten to death in California</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Disgusting indeed.<br /> <br /> I wish all manner of horrible things upon the scum who did it.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Sun, 25 Mar 2012 02:21:17]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ CT GAMER]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Iraqi woman almost beaten to death in California</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Well, it's hardly surprising, unfortunately.<br /> <br /> When you demonize a people/culture, people are going to see them as demons....<br /> <br /> I just hope justice is served.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Sun, 25 Mar 2012 02:25:27]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Slarg232]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Iraqi woman almost beaten to death in California</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite><span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(436);'>CT</span> GAMER wrote:</cite>Disgusting indeed.<br /> <br /> I wish all manner of horrible things upon the scum who did it.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> We might not agree on a whole lot, but I'm with you on this one 100%.<br /> <br /> <br /> <span style="font-size: 9px; line-height: normal;">Automatically Appended Next Post:</span><br /> <blockquote><div><cite>Slarg232 wrote:</cite>Well, it's hardly surprising, unfortunately.<br /> <br /> When you demonize a people/culture, people are going to see them as demons....<br /> <br /> I just hope justice is served.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Sad but true.<br /> <br /> <br /> <span style="font-size: 9px; line-height: normal;">Automatically Appended Next Post:</span><br /> I just read the lady died.<br /> I really hate cowards like the person(s) that did this to her, regardless of circumstance.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Sun, 25 Mar 2012 02:44:00]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Relapse]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Iraqi woman almost beaten to death in California</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Indeed, perhaps the title could be corrected, as <a href="http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/mar/24/el-cajon-woman-dies-after-beating-earlier-week/" target="_new" rel="nofollow">she has died</a>. ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 07:10:52]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Ouze]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Iraqi woman almost beaten to death in California</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Oh, this is going to go over really well.<br /> <br /> Just what we needed, Americans beating Arabs to death.  Yeah, this is bad.<br /> <br /> ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 13:25:00]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Amaya]]></author>
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				<description><![CDATA[ In my first week in LA the news reported 18 murders over the weekend, one weekend. Sixteen murders were reportedly gang related. Nothing surprises me about Southern California. ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 14:06:15]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Frazzled]]></author>
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				<description><![CDATA[ Remember the beginning of Predator 2, Frazz?]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 14:06:44]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Manchu]]></author>
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				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Manchu wrote:</cite>Remember the beginning of Predator 2, Frazz?</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Yep.  Just another day in paradise.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 14:08:22]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Frazzled]]></author>
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				<title>Iraqi woman almost beaten to death in California, subsequently dies</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ The ones who did this desserves the capitol punishment, I am normaly against it but in these cases its more than justified. ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 14:11:13]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Trondheim]]></author>
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				<description><![CDATA[ Why just this one? ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 14:16:16]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Frazzled]]></author>
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				<description><![CDATA[ I am also interested to hear the answer to that question.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 14:28:57]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Manchu]]></author>
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				<title>Iraqi woman almost beaten to death in California, subsequently dies</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Is this the accepting trendy Liberal State America so dearly wants? I clearly have some doubts now.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 15:45:10]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ rockerbikie]]></author>
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				<title>Iraqi woman almost beaten to death in California, subsequently dies</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>rockerbikie wrote:</cite>Is this the accepting trendy Liberal State America so dearly wants? I clearly have some doubts now.</div></blockquote>We didn't say we have it.  But yes we do want it.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 15:46:56]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Manchu]]></author>
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				<title>Iraqi woman almost beaten to death in California, subsequently dies</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Trondheim wrote:</cite>The ones who did this desserves the capitol punishment, I am normaly against it but in these cases its more than justified. </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Why? Because she's Arab? ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 15:48:55]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Amaya]]></author>
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				<title>Iraqi woman almost beaten to death in California, subsequently dies</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Amaya wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><cite>Trondheim wrote:</cite>The ones who did this desserves the capitol punishment, I am normaly against it but in these cases its more than justified. </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Why? Because she's Arab? </div></blockquote><br /> I assume because it's a racially motivated crime...]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 15:53:36]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ purplefood]]></author>
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				<description><![CDATA[ She was Iraqi, not Arabian. ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 15:55:05]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Frazzled]]></author>
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				<title>Iraqi woman almost beaten to death in California, subsequently dies</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>purplefood wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><cite>Amaya wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><cite>Trondheim wrote:</cite>The ones who did this desserves the capitol punishment, I am normaly against it but in these cases its more than justified. </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Why? Because she's Arab? </div></blockquote><br /> I assume because it's a racially motivated crime...</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Why does a racially motivated crime deserve a more severe sentence?<br /> <br /> <blockquote><div><cite>Frazzled wrote:</cite>She was Iraqi, not Arabian. </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Okay, since when has Arab = Arabian?  Arabian would be nationality, Arab is an ethnicity.  Iraqis are primarily Arabs.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 16:11:51]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Amaya]]></author>
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				<title>Iraqi woman almost beaten to death in California, subsequently dies</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Amaya wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><cite>purplefood wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><cite>Amaya wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><cite>Trondheim wrote:</cite>The ones who did this desserves the capitol punishment, I am normaly against it but in these cases its more than justified. </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Why? Because she's Arab? </div></blockquote><br /> I assume because it's a racially motivated crime...</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Why does a racially motivated crime deserve a more severe sentence?<br /> <br /> <blockquote><div><cite>Frazzled wrote:</cite>She was Iraqi, not Arabian. </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Okay, since when has Arab = Arabian?  Arabian would be nationality, Arab is an ethnicity.  Iraqis are primarily Arabs.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Iraqis aren't 'Arab.']]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 16:15:17]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Frazzled]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Iraqi woman almost beaten to death in California, subsequently dies</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ A correct statement would be, some Iraqis are Arab, some Iraqis are not Arab.<br /> <br /> I know it's complicated, like how not all Americans are white.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 16:17:09]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Amaya]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Iraqi woman almost beaten to death in California, subsequently dies</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Amaya wrote:</cite>A correct statement would be, some Iraqis are Arab, some Iraqis are not Arab.<br /> <br /> I know it's complicated, like how not all Americans are white.</div></blockquote><br /> Am I the only person brought uip that "arab" is just this side of derogatory term? <br /> Kurdish is not "Arab"<br /> Shiites are Persian. <br /> Sunnis, sort of, I guess, not really. <br /> ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 16:20:27]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Frazzled]]></author>
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				<description><![CDATA[ <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(408);'>MR</span> nailed it with disgusting.<br /> <br /> Trondheim may just be speaking out of frustration and disbelief at such a brutal crime.  If we want a debate on capitol punishment let's have a different thread.<br /> <br /> I have no idea what rockerbikie is going on about.  It is a poorly phrased statement that makes less sense the more I read it.  I'm not sure how a woman getting murdered is an example of an 'accepting Liberal State America' or how it leads to some doubts.  If anything the vast outrage and disgust would seem to show most Americans do not care what her origins were and that this kind of foolishness is not something we accept.<br /> <br /> <blockquote><div><cite>Frazzled wrote:</cite>In my first week in LA the news reported 18 murders over the weekend, one weekend. Sixteen murders were reportedly gang related. Nothing surprises me about Southern California. </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Well the Gold Rush was a pretty crazy time, but you knew that when your wagon train headed out in the first place.  <img src="/s/i/a/5d13fa41280d6fdef786d41bc175d3f6.gif" border="0"> ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 16:32:00]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Ahtman]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Iraqi woman almost beaten to death in California, subsequently dies</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Capital Punishment? So death for killing another. <br /> <br /> I think my blood-brother is frustrated and thus is speaking out in the emotional agony I am feeling while reading this. <br /> <br /> All what would killing them do is put more blood on the government's hands. And many angry families. <br /> <br /> I say we incarcerate them. Dying in a cage they spent the rest of their life in for doing something incredibly stupid is a much worse fate then any lethal injection the state can give. ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 17:43:22]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Shadowbrand]]></author>
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				<description><![CDATA[ Nonsense. It costs a fortune for the State to keep someone locked up for life as opposed to a minimal outlay on poison/gas/electricity etc.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 17:50:51]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ filbert]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Iraqi woman almost beaten to death in California, subsequently dies</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ It's better to spend it there then in equipping and sending soldiers off to die in some foreign land I don't think we have much business in. ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 17:52:28]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Shadowbrand]]></author>
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				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>filbert wrote:</cite>Nonsense. It costs a fortune for the State to keep someone locked up for life as opposed to a minimal outlay on poison/gas/electricity etc.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> You have to add in the costs for all the endless appeals. Thats several million dollars. ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 17:53:31]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Frazzled]]></author>
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				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Frazzled wrote:</cite>You have to add in the costs for all the endless appeals. Thats several million dollars. </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> How much to equip the police with Judge Dredd uniforms?]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 18:12:09]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ SilverMK2]]></author>
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				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>SilverMK2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><cite>Frazzled wrote:</cite>You have to add in the costs for all the endless appeals. Thats several million dollars. </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> How much to equip the police with Judge Dredd uniforms?</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> I am the Law! ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 18:14:52]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Frazzled]]></author>
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				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>filbert wrote:</cite>Nonsense. It costs a fortune for the State to keep someone locked up for life as opposed to a minimal outlay on poison/gas/electricity etc.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> I think executions actually end up costing more than life imprisonment due to the amount of money wasted on constant appeals.  Even the execution itself is fairly expensive.<br /> <br /> Of course, that's because we don't hang or shoot people anymore, we have to be 'humane'.  <br /> <br /> How is one form of murder more humane than another?]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 18:36:28]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Amaya]]></author>
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				<title>Iraqi woman almost beaten to death in California, subsequently dies</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Amaya wrote:</cite>How is one form of murder more humane than another?</div></blockquote>Seriously?  Assuming lethal injection is really painless, I'd say it's more human than, say, beating someone to death with a two-by-four wrapped in razorwire.  I mean, it's more humane even if lethal injection is a bit painful.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 18:45:52]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Manchu]]></author>
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				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Manchu wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><cite>Amaya wrote:</cite>How is one form of murder more humane than another?</div></blockquote>Seriously?  Assuming lethal injection is really painless, I'd say it's more human than, say, beating someone to death with a two-by-four wrapped in razorwire.  I mean, it's more humane even if lethal injection is a bit painful.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> How is it more human that blowing someone's head off with .45?  Or a guillotine?<br /> <br /> <br /> I mean, yeah, it's obviously more humane than feeding someone to a pack of cannibalistic ghouls...]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 18:47:26]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Amaya]]></author>
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				<description><![CDATA[ I'd go with guillotine in that dichotomy.  It's all about quantifying then reducing actual and potential suffering.<br /> <br /> Anyway, I think the death penalty is a completely appropriate punishment for a person who murders others purely out of xenophobic hatred.  Hate crimes of all kinds are utter poison to our society and hate-inspired murder is the worst of all.  It must be punished both as an affirmation of our repudiation and to deter in the strongest possible terms.<br /> <br /> That said, contrition and transformation is a real possibility in a human lifetime not cut short by the state.  If a person can be imprisoned such that s/he is not a danger to her/himself or others then I'd hope that s/he would be given that chance.  This is a reflection of my religious belief, however, which I understand not everyone else in society agrees with.  The death penalty is properly the prerogative of the state not the Church.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 18:58:25]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Manchu]]></author>
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				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Manchu wrote:</cite> This is a reflection my religious belief, however, which I understand not everyone else in society agrees with.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Hell, not even everyone in your religion would agree, let alone all of society.<br /> <br /> That being said, if we want to have a death penalty discussion perhaps not co-opting this thread may be a better idea.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 19:00:47]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Ahtman]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Iraqi woman almost beaten to death in California, subsequently dies</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Why the feth was my last post taken down.<br /> <br /> Also.<br /> <br /> Eye for an eye makes the world blind.- Gandhi.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 19:03:01]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Shadowbrand]]></author>
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				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Ahtman wrote:</cite>That being said, if we want to have a death penalty discussion perhaps not co-opting this thread may be a better idea.</div></blockquote>Discussion of the appropriate response to this crime is an inevitable part of the topic.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 19:05:09]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Manchu]]></author>
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				<title>Iraqi woman almost beaten to death in California, subsequently dies</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Manchu wrote:</cite>I'd go with guillotine in that dichotomy.  It's all about quantifying then reducing actual and potential suffering.<br /> <br /> Anyway, I think the death penalty is a completely appropriate punishment for a person who murders others purely out of xenophobic hatred.  Hate crimes of all kinds are utter poison to our society and hate-inspired murder is the worst of all.  It must be punished both as an affirmation of our repudiation and to deter in the strongest possible terms.<br /> <br /> That said, contrition and transformation is a real possibility in a human lifetime not cut short by the state.  If a person can be imprisoned such that s/he is not a danger to her/himself or others then I'd hope that s/he would be given that chance.  This is a reflection of my religious belief, however, which I understand not everyone else in society agrees with.  The death penalty is properly the prerogative of the state not the Church.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Isn't any premeditated murder done out of hatred in some form?  <br /> <br /> Hate crime laws only apply to crimes motivated by race, culture, politics, or religion.  A protestant white guy can go kill another white guy out of hatred for a reason not covered by hate crime laws.  ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 19:07:36]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Amaya]]></author>
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				<title>Iraqi woman almost beaten to death in California, subsequently dies</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Amaya wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><cite>filbert wrote:</cite>Nonsense. It costs a fortune for the State to keep someone locked up for life as opposed to a minimal outlay on poison/gas/electricity etc.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> I think executions actually end up costing more than life imprisonment due to the amount of money wasted on constant appeals.  Even the execution itself is fairly expensive.<br /> <br /> Of course, that's because we don't hang or shoot people anymore, we have to be 'humane'.  <br /> <br /> How is one form of murder more humane than another?</div></blockquote><br /> Sadly, Appeals are necessary. To make sure you dont execute the wrong man. I remember in texas there was an arson case. Kids died and house burned down. Due to faulty evidence and outdated techniques the father got put to death. And another conservative state abolished the <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(262);'>DP</span> because it came s close to killing an innocent man. I bet if i looked hard enough i could find the same of Cali.  But i cant be bothered.<br /> But This is a sad story. And because she is dead, and it was random and not someone she knew its likely they will never apprehend the perpetrator.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 19:08:20]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ hotsauceman1]]></author>
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				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Amaya wrote:</cite>Isn't any premeditated murder done out of hatred in some form?</div></blockquote>I don't know.  And that question assumes too much anyway.<br /> <br /> <br /> <span style="font-size: 9px; line-height: normal;">Automatically Appended Next Post:</span><br /> <blockquote><div><cite>hotsauceman1 wrote:</cite>But This is a sad story. And because she is dead, and it was random and not someone she knew its likely they will never apprehend the perpetrator.</div></blockquote>Maybe not, although that would be terrible.  All murders should be answered for but a murder inspired by hatred has wider implications than the immediate and personal tragedy.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 19:12:19]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Manchu]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Iraqi woman almost beaten to death in California, subsequently dies</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Frazzled wrote:</cite><br /> Am I the only person brought uip that "arab" is just this side of derogatory term? <br /> Kurdish is not "Arab"<br /> Shiites are Persian. <br /> Sunnis, sort of, I guess, not really. <br /> </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> The vast majority (~80%) of Iraqis are Arab.<br /> <br /> Suuni and Shia are religious categories, not ethnic groups.  They overlap with ethnic groups.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 19:20:52]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ dogma]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Iraqi woman almost beaten to death in California, subsequently dies</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>dogma wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><cite>Frazzled wrote:</cite><br /> Am I the only person brought uip that "arab" is just this side of derogatory term? <br /> Kurdish is not "Arab"<br /> Shiites are Persian. <br /> Sunnis, sort of, I guess, not really. <br /> </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> The vast majority (~80%) of Iraqis are Arab.<br /> <br /> Suuni and Shia are religious categories, not ethnic groups.  They overlap with ethnic groups.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> I'd proffer all the Shia refer to themselves as tied to Iran - good old farsi speaking Persians. <br /> <br /> I did not know that people considered "Arab" an ethnic group, and not just a slur.  Learn something every day.  ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 19:23:28]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Frazzled]]></author>
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				<title>Iraqi woman almost beaten to death in California, subsequently dies</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Manchu wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><cite>Ahtman wrote:</cite>That being said, if we want to have a death penalty discussion perhaps not co-opting this thread may be a better idea.</div></blockquote>Discussion of the appropriate response to this crime is an inevitable part of the topic.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Response to what?  No one being arrested,charged, or being sentenced?  A woman was horribly murdered and people are drawing up ground over a political issue.  I think it is an interesting discussion and one worth having, but if it is going to be a discussion it should have its own thread.  You'll also notice I stated "if we want to have this discussion", not, "you should never mention it".  It can come up, but when it begins to dominate the conversation to where the original point is lost, then it becomes problematic.  There is a difference between mentioning something related to an issue, and having an entirely separate discussion altogether.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 19:26:23]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Ahtman]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Iraqi woman almost beaten to death in California, subsequently dies</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Frazzled wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><cite>Amaya wrote:</cite>A correct statement would be, some Iraqis are Arab, some Iraqis are not Arab.<br /> <br /> I know it's complicated, like how not all Americans are white.</div></blockquote><br /> Am I the only person brought uip that "arab" is just this side of derogatory term? <br /> Kurdish is not "Arab"<br /> Shiites are Persian. <br /> Sunnis, sort of, I guess, not really. <br /> </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> <br /> I just wanted to point out that the word Arab isn't a derogatory term.  You're right that Kurds are not Arabs, they're Kurds.  But most Iraqis <i>are</i> Arabs.  Also, Shiites aren't necessarily Persian.  Iranians are Persian, and most Iranians are Shiites, but there are Arab Shiites as well.  Again, the same with Sunnis.  Many of them are Arabs, but not all.  Some Arabs are also Christian, and there are even some Jews who self-identify as Arab Jews.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 19:32:30]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Hordini]]></author>
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				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Ahtman wrote:</cite>There is a difference between mentioning something related to an issue, and having an entirely separate discussion altogether.</div></blockquote>The distinction is not germane here.  We don't need a suspect to talk about what the appropriate response to xenophobic murder should be.  Locking someone up doesn't address the issue to everyone's satisfaction -- thus discussion.  I'm glad you've brought this up, however, as it's a nice segueway into heading Amaya off at the pass.  A hate crime is unlike a regular crime in that there is more at issue than an individual harm.  When someone is murdered simply for being an Arab, all Arab people are threatened.  Contrast this to someone who is murdered for sleeping with someone else, or over a bad drug deal, or some other incident-specific circumstance.  Perhaps in those cases, the death penalty is less appropriate because only the particular victim and her/his family and friends are really implicated.  In this case, Arabs all over the country will wonder "and will this society really care?"]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 19:32:56]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Manchu]]></author>
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				<description><![CDATA[ I wouldn't give him the death penalty, simply because I view the death penalty as a form of extremism. I believe you shouldn't respond to an extremist action like this with another extremist action of your own- it only polarises things even more. I Would prefer for the perpetrator to live out the rest of his days in prison, being studied by forensic psychologists.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 19:38:33]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Da Boss]]></author>
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				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Manchu wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><cite>Ahtman wrote:</cite>There is a difference between mentioning something related to an issue, and having an entirely separate discussion altogether.</div></blockquote>The distinction is not germane here.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> I disagree, oblivioulsy.<br /> <br /> <blockquote><div><cite>Manchu wrote:</cite>We don't need a suspect to talk about what the appropriate response to xenophobic murder should be.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Which is fine but the problem is, and this is where it was heading, when it stops being about what to do with this guy and starts to be what to do with anyone and then about the states role and what it should do and what is a humane way to do it or if there is a humane way to do it and then the next thing you know it isn't about talking about a suspect that killed a woman with a tire iron and people have forgotten why it started in the first place as everyone starts picking sides and discussing <i>only</i> that.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 19:45:11]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Ahtman]]></author>
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				<description><![CDATA[ I'm afraid that's how it goes.  There's only so much to say on a single news item until you start talking about much more general issues.<br /> <br /> Plus, I keep trying to talk about this case and hate crimes and you keep posting off-topic comments about what is on-topic or not.  Come on now.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 19:47:29]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Manchu]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Iraqi woman almost beaten to death in California, subsequently dies</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Hordini wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><cite>Frazzled wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><cite>Amaya wrote:</cite>A correct statement would be, some Iraqis are Arab, some Iraqis are not Arab.<br /> <br /> I know it's complicated, like how not all Americans are white.</div></blockquote><br /> Am I the only person brought uip that "arab" is just this side of derogatory term? <br /> Kurdish is not "Arab"<br /> Shiites are Persian. <br /> Sunnis, sort of, I guess, not really. <br /> </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> <br /> I just wanted to point out that the word Arab isn't a derogatory term.  You're right that Kurds are not Arabs, they're Kurds.  But most Iraqis <i>are</i> Arabs.  Also, Shiites aren't necessarily Persian.  Iranians are Persian, and most Iranians are Shiites, but there are Arab Shiites as well.  Again, the same with Sunnis.  Many of them are Arabs, but not all.  Some Arabs are also Christian, and there are even some Jews who self-identify as Arab Jews.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> As I said, thats good to know.  <img src="/s/i/a/c614b4720f1b7225b0523f616ac30b2f.gif" border="0"><br /> I had thought the Iraqi Sunnis were more akin to Turks ethnically.  Thats interesting. ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 19:53:47]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Frazzled]]></author>
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				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Manchu wrote:</cite>I'm afraid that's how it goes.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> That is a pretty weak argument, and fairly sad coming from someone I know can do better.  If you want to turn this into a polemic on Capitol Punishment you are of course able to do so, but that doesn't mean that it has to happen, or that I have to be happy about it.  I don't think calling for a thread not to stray to far off topic <i>is</i> off topic, so pretending I'm taking your tangent on a tangent is at best misleading.  Creating a new thread isn't that hard and if we are going to do 10 pages on the Death Penalty with one page on the actually subject of the thread I don't think it is that difficult to see that it probably should be a separate thread.  There is nothing in the story that says we absolutely have to discuss all the ramifications of the death penalty here.  If there is no more to say on this story then we don't <i>have</i> to turn them into a thread on something else.  I know I have done it before myself and that we all are guilty of it from time to time, but other times you can see the derail train coming from a mile away, and I don't think it is untoward to try and change the track before it arrives.  ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 20:31:45]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Ahtman]]></author>
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				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Ahtman wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><cite>Manchu wrote:</cite>I'm afraid that's how it goes.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> That is a pretty weak argument, and fairly sad coming from someone I know can do better.  If you want to turn this into a polemic on Capitol Punishment you are of course able to do so, but that doesn't mean that it has to happen, or that I have to be happy about it.  I don't think calling for a thread not to stray to far off topic <i>is</i> off topic, so pretending I'm taking your tangent on a tangent is at best misleading.  Creating a new thread isn't that hard and if we are going to do 10 pages on the Death Penalty with one page on the actually subject of the thread I don't think it is that difficult to see that it probably should be a separate thread.  There is nothing in the story that says we absolutely have to discuss all the ramifications of the death penalty here.  If there is no more to say on this story then we don't <i>have</i> to turn them into a thread on something else.  I know I have done it before myself and that we all are guilty of it from time to time, but other times you can see the derail train coming from a mile away, and I don't think it is untoward to try and change the track before it arrives.  </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Wait, a rant on the <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(415);'>OT</span> about an <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(415);'>OT</span> thread thats going <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(415);'>OT</span>. Isn't that a little...<span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(415);'>OT</span>?  <img src="/s/i/a/c3ec5125cd363906ba203808086b703d.gif" border="0"><br /> ']]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 20:57:22]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Frazzled]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Iraqi woman almost beaten to death in California, subsequently dies</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Frazzled wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><cite>dogma wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><cite>Frazzled wrote:</cite><br /> Am I the only person brought uip that "arab" is just this side of derogatory term? <br /> Kurdish is not "Arab"<br /> Shiites are Persian. <br /> Sunnis, sort of, I guess, not really. <br /> </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> The vast majority (~80%) of Iraqis are Arab.<br /> <br /> Suuni and Shia are religious categories, not ethnic groups.  They overlap with ethnic groups.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> I'd proffer all the Shia refer to themselves as tied to Iran - good old farsi speaking Persians. <br /> <br /> I did not know that people considered "Arab" an ethnic group, and not just a slur.  Learn something every day.  </div></blockquote><br /> I would proffer that the Shia refer to themselves as tied to Iraq, regardless of ethnicity. Because Shi'ites are followers of Ali ibn Abi Talib who is buried in Najaf, Iraq. There are numerous canals, mosques and similar contraction built from the funds of pakistanis, Malaysian, and American Shi'ites for the locals for safeguarding the Ali's resting place. Americans often overlook the monumental significance of Iraq to Shia.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 21:21:47]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ AustonT]]></author>
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				<description><![CDATA[ Fair point. ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 21:23:20]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Frazzled]]></author>
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				<description><![CDATA[ As I mentioned, many people would find the death penalty to be a legitimate punishment for this crime and will call for it while others will  demur, likely arguing why it is never just to execute any criminal -- it's not a rule that we MUST discuss this but we have been and it's certainly on-topic.<br /> <br /> This crime was committed in the shadow of another one, the massacre of Afghans in Afghanistan by an American soldier.  I don't think it's paranoid to say these events are connected by the common denominator of American culture.  Even if this was not a hate crime and the note is just a red herring, the fact that someone would attempt to cover their tracks by planting a xenophobic apparent motive is telling.  This is what I mean when I say that hate crimes are especially poisonous to society.<br /> <br /> The whole subject of the death penalty came up because a poster who self-identified as against its imposition noted that he'd be in favor of executing the perpetrator in this case.  And we don't have to think too hard about what makes this case so special.  It's a fascinating point:  there is more at stake here than the usual appeal to justice.  There is a question of cultural and social legitimacy.  This, I think, is what another poster meant by calling into question the American ideals of diversity.  If we can let somebody get away with this, do our avowed ideals really mean anything to us?<br /> <br /> For some people, a murderer who escapes the death penalty has gotten away with murder.  It's not an unassailable position but it's hardly an indefensible one, either.  This kind of crime, which strikes at the validity of our social structures and our commitment to much articulated but seldom fulfilled ideals, really does test us on issues that we might not normally struggle with -- like whether the state can legitimately execute people that break its laws.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 21:25:45]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Manchu]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Iraqi woman almost beaten to death in California, subsequently dies</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ A painless death is still a death.  It isn't humane.<br /> <br /> I've got no problem with it, but I don't see the need to sugar coat it.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 21:27:17]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Mr Hyena]]></author>
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				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Mr Hyena wrote:</cite>It isn't humane.</div></blockquote>I think humane is only being used in a comparative rather than absolute or objective sense.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 21:28:41]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Manchu]]></author>
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				<description><![CDATA[ @Frazzled, Haji (sp?) is considered extremely offensive though.<br /> <br /> @Manchu, the thing is, nothing about justice is really humane.  Execution vs life in prison without parole?  They both suck, but anyone who is being considered for either of those (barring mistake identity or something similar) is arguably deserving.  I think there's a point where a society has to accept that what is right isn't always what is humane.  Calling life in prison, especially in an American prison that is notorious for rape, humane, even in a comparative sense, is wrong.  ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 22:41:11]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Amaya]]></author>
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				<description><![CDATA[ Is it humane compared to lethal injection or the electric chair?<br /> <br /> And are those humane compared to someone breaking into your house and beating you to death with a tire iron just because you're not like them?<br /> <br /> Again, I'm not talking about an absolute.  Justice does not demand that the perpetrator be delivered up to the evil that he meted out.  There's quite a difference between an execution and a murder, after all.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 22:47:28]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Manchu]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Iraqi woman almost beaten to death in California, subsequently dies</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Well, between the electric chair and lethal injection I personally wouldn't care.<br /> <br /> If I had to be executed I would want to have my head cut off and my body fed to ligers.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 26 Mar 2012 23:11:20]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Amaya]]></author>
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				<description><![CDATA[ In regards to the title. If one is beaten nearly to death and subsequently dies I believe the headline is "Beaten to Death"<br /> ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 27 Mar 2012 00:08:37]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ AustonT]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Iraqi woman almost beaten to death in California, subsequently dies</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Amaya wrote:</cite>@Frazzled, Haji (sp?) is considered extremely offensive though.<br /> </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Wait, what? Whats that? Should I ask? Where am I?What the hell?  Oh crap I've become TBone.<br /> <img src="http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q145/jfrazell/wiener%20dogs/troyintherainundertheslide.jpg" border="0" />]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 27 Mar 2012 01:15:55]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Frazzled]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Iraqi woman almost beaten to death in California, subsequently dies</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ It's a religous insult of the Hajj, which is a pilgrimage Muslims are supposed to make to Mecca at least once in their lifetime. <br /> <br /> I only heard of it because of my brief stint in the Marines.  We were told to never use the term, especially if deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan.  Apparently it is primarily used as a slur by American military personnel.  We were told that a couple Marines were discharged at MCT for saying that "they couldn't wait to kill Hajjis" or something along those lines.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 27 Mar 2012 01:32:56]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Amaya]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Iraqi woman almost beaten to death in California, subsequently dies</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Amaya wrote:</cite>It's a religous insult of the Hajj, which is a pilgrimage Muslims are supposed to make to Mecca at least once in their lifetime. <br /> <br /> I only heard of it because of my brief stint in the Marines.  We were told to never use the term, especially if deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan.  Apparently it is primarily used as a slur by American military personnel.  We were told that a couple Marines were discharged at MCT for saying that "they couldn't wait to kill Hajjis" or something along those lines.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> <br /> The word Hajji itself isn't a religious insult.  While it is true that the term is sometimes used disrespectfully, in Arabic the word Hajji is used to refer to someone who has completed the Hajj.  The word itself is not disrespectful, it's actually a title, but obviously it can be used in a disrespectful manner in certain contexts, like the one you mention from MCT.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 27 Mar 2012 07:19:22]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Hordini]]></author>
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				<description><![CDATA[ It's kind of interesting how little media impact this is having compared to the death of a black kid.  I guess maybe there are advantages to having special interest groups after all?<br /> <br /> <br /> <blockquote><div><cite>Amaya wrote:</cite>Isn't any premeditated murder done out of hatred in some form?  <br /> <br /> Hate crime laws only apply to crimes motivated by race, culture, politics, or religion.  A protestant white guy can go kill another white guy out of hatred for a reason not covered by hate crime laws.  </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> The impact on a social group of a crime motivated out of bigotry is far different to one done for other means.  For instance, consider a man going and spray painting the word 'dick' on the side of a synagogue.  Now consider that same man instead spraypainting a swastika.  In the first instance you've annoyed some people and cost the synagogue some time and money to have it removed.  In the second instance you've made a community feel unwelcome in their city, and maybe afraid for their lives.<br /> <br /> The same thing is true when you're talking about someone killed for standard reasons, and someone killed because of their race.  In the latter case, you've now terrified a whole community who now have good reason to believe they might be next, and it makes good sense to recognise that and punish it beyond simply the murder.<br /> <br /> Now, I've got a big problem with hate crime laws, simply because of the tendency of them to get overapplied to boost the potential sentence for what should be be normal crimes.  But the reality is that the impact of the crime is different in a fundamental way to other crimes.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 27 Mar 2012 09:00:37]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ sebster]]></author>
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				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>sebster wrote:</cite>It's kind of interesting how little media impact this is having compared to the death of a black kid.  I guess maybe there are advantages to having special interest groups after all?</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Part of the outrage is directed at the reluctance of police to arrest the man responsible in the case of the black teenager, and to some extent to the ridiculous ease with which self-defence can be argued.<br /> <br /> Here there is no indication of governmental laxity or any sign that the police might condone or sympathise with what the responsible murderer/s have done. It's an ugly crime and those responsible are despicable, but the fact is there simply isn't that much controversy over the fact.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 27 Mar 2012 11:37:57]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Hazardous Harry]]></author>
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				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Hazardous Harry wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><cite>sebster wrote:</cite>It's kind of interesting how little media impact this is having compared to the death of a black kid.  I guess maybe there are advantages to having special interest groups after all?</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Part of the outrage is directed at the reluctance of police to arrest the man responsible in the case of the black teenager, and to some extent to the ridiculous ease with which self-defence can be argued.<br /> <br /> Here there is no indication of governmental laxity or any sign that the police might condone or sympathise with what the responsible murderer/s have done. It's an ugly crime and those responsible are despicable, but the fact is there simply isn't that much controversy over the fact.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Its now being used to push politic agendas, and the usual suspects are now involved. ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 27 Mar 2012 11:44:10]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Frazzled]]></author>
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				<title>Iraqi woman almost beaten to death in California, subsequently dies</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Frazzled wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><cite>Hazardous Harry wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><cite>sebster wrote:</cite>It's kind of interesting how little media impact this is having compared to the death of a black kid.  I guess maybe there are advantages to having special interest groups after all?</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Part of the outrage is directed at the reluctance of police to arrest the man responsible in the case of the black teenager, and to some extent to the ridiculous ease with which self-defence can be argued.<br /> <br /> Here there is no indication of governmental laxity or any sign that the police might condone or sympathise with what the responsible murderer/s have done. It's an ugly crime and those responsible are despicable, but the fact is there simply isn't that much controversy over the fact.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Its now being used to push politic agendas, and the usual suspects are now involved. </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Exactly what political agenda is there in this case? I don't think any party is going to get behind branding every single Iraqi in the US a terrorist.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 27 Mar 2012 11:55:24]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Hazardous Harry]]></author>
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				<title>Iraqi woman almost beaten to death in California, subsequently dies</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Hazardous Harry wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><cite>Frazzled wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><cite>Hazardous Harry wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><cite>sebster wrote:</cite>It's kind of interesting how little media impact this is having compared to the death of a black kid.  I guess maybe there are advantages to having special interest groups after all?</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Part of the outrage is directed at the reluctance of police to arrest the man responsible in the case of the black teenager, and to some extent to the ridiculous ease with which self-defence can be argued.<br /> <br /> Here there is no indication of governmental laxity or any sign that the police might condone or sympathise with what the responsible murderer/s have done. It's an ugly crime and those responsible are despicable, but the fact is there simply isn't that much controversy over the fact.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Its now being used to push politic agendas, and the usual suspects are now involved. </div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Exactly what political agenda is there in this case? I don't think any party is going to get behind branding every single Iraqi in the US a terrorist.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Wrong case.  The other case getting attention. <br /> This case is just sad, and wrong. ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 27 Mar 2012 12:01:51]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Frazzled]]></author>
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				<description><![CDATA[ Well what political agendas are being grounded on the other case? I can only imagine perhaps an argument to make it tougher to claim self-defence so easily.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 27 Mar 2012 12:02:57]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Hazardous Harry]]></author>
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				<title>Iraqi woman almost beaten to death in California, subsequently dies</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote><div><cite>Hazardous Harry wrote:</cite>Here there is no indication of governmental laxity or any sign that the police might condone or sympathise with what the responsible murderer/s have done. It's an ugly crime and those responsible are despicable, but the fact is there simply isn't that much controversy over the fact.</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Fair point on the controversy.  When there's actually a point up for dispute the argument gets a lot more coverage.  That said, I don't think it fully explains the difference in coverage, which I think is in large part down to their being a number of special interest groups who are working to make sure we remain aware of what happened to Trayvon, and an absence of such groups in this case.<br /> <br /> I mean, this case really should be put front and square in the media every day, and used to show why the rhetoric of fear over Islam needs to stop.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 28 Mar 2012 03:31:49]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ sebster]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Iraqi woman almost beaten to death in California, subsequently dies</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ And now, the rest of the story:<br /> <a href="http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2012/04/murder-iraqi-american-woman-may-not-have-been-hate-crime/50759/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2012/04/murder-iraqi-american-woman-may-not-have-been-hate-crime/50759/</a><br /> <br /> <blockquote class="uncited"><div><br /> Presented By  Murder of Iraqi-American Woman May Not Have Been a Hate Crime<br />  <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(6);'>AP</span> Photo/Hadi Mizban  Share  Print article  Email article  Comments (9)  Dashiell Bennett 789 Views 6:39 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(682);'>AM</span> ET <br /> Search warrants in the case of Iraqi-American woman who was beaten to death last month suggest that there may be more to the story than just a case of anti-Muslim violence. According to court records obtained by the San Diego Union Tribune, the victim, Shaima Alawadi, was looking to divorce her husband and move to another state, while her 17-year-old daughter, Fatima, was also distraught about being forced to marry her cousin. Fatima Alawadi also reportedly received a crytpic text message shortly after the attack saying, "The detective will find out tell them (can’t) talk."<br /> <br /> Investigators also learned of another incident that adds to the portrait of a family in trouble. Fatima was picked up by police last November after they responded to a report of two people having sex in a car and found the daughter in a car with a 21-year-old man. Her mother came to pick her up, but while driving home, Fatima threw herself out of the moving car at 35 m.p.h., breaking her arm. She reportedly told hospital staff that she was upset about the arranged marriage. <br /> <br /> Finally, police have determined that the key piece of evidence — a threatening note found next to the body telling the family to go back where they came from — was a photocopy and not the handwritten original. (The family did say they previously found a similar note outside their home, but did not save it.)<br /> <br /> While none of these details directly contradict the original theory that the killer was an outsider targeting the family because of bias against Muslims, they do suggest a wider range of other motives and the possibility that the note may have been a attempt to distract police from the real killer. Local police and the FBI have not commented on the ongoing investigation or these latest revelations, but have said that there are no suspects at the moment. They also wouldn't change the fact that there is real anti-Muslim hatred in this country and particularly in <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(555);'>El</span> Cajon where the crime occurred. But this is yet another reminder that as with many crimes, particularly those that play out in the public eye, it may difficult to ever piece together what really happened — and the truth is rarely what it first appears to be.<br /> <br /> Both Fatima and her father  are in Iraq, where Shaima was buried last Saturday.<br /> <br /> Want to add to this story? Let us know in comments or send an email to the author at <a href="mailto:dashiell@dashiellbennett.com">dashiell@dashiellbennett.com</a>. You can share ideas for stories on the Open Wire<br /> </div></blockquote>]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 5 Apr 2012 16:23:28]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Frazzled]]></author>
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				<description><![CDATA[ "The truth is rarely what it first appears to be"?<br /> <br /> Lolwut.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 5 Apr 2012 17:31:34]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Manchu]]></author>
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				<title>Iraqi woman almost beaten to death in California, subsequently dies</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ We should do away with these sorts of hate-criminals.<br /> <br /> Unfortunately, I can't imagine that California has the death penalty.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Fri, 6 Apr 2012 01:27:00]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Inquisitor Ehrenstein]]></author>
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				<title>Iraqi woman almost beaten to death in California, subsequently dies</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ The fact that the note was photocopied doesn't really mean anything, it justs points to the killer not being an absolute idiot.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Fri, 6 Apr 2012 01:42:47]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Hazardous Harry]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Iraqi woman almost beaten to death in California, subsequently dies</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Apologies for threadomancy, but recent developments:<br /> <br /> <blockquote class="uncited"><div>Police: Shaima Alawadi's death was domestic violence not hate crime, arrest husband<br /> <br /> Reuters<br /> The husband of Shaima Alawadi, Kassim Alhimidi, holds a picture of his slain wife in April 2012.<br /> <br /> By Kari Huus, NBC News<br /> Police have arrested the husband of an Iraqi woman beaten to death in her home eight months ago for what initially looked like a racially motivated hate crime, U-T San Diego reported, citing jail records in <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(555);'>El</span> Cajon, Calif., in San Diego County.<br /> Kassim Alhimidi, 48, was booked into jail Thursday evening on one count of first-degree murder. He is being held without bail.<br /> <br /> Follow @NBCNewsUS<br /> "After months of hard work, we determined that this homicide was a result of domestic violence," <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(555);'>El</span> Cajon Police Chief Jim Redman said Friday, NBCSanDiego.com reported.<br /> <br /> Shaima Alawadi, 32, was found bloody and unconscious with multiple skull fractures in her family's home on March 21. She died in the hospital three days later.The couple’s 17-year-old daughter told police she was in her bedroom when the attack took place. She found her mother unconscious and called 9-1-1.<br /> <br /> Family members said they had found a note near Alawadi's body telling the family to go back where they came from. They said they had found a similar note at their home weeks earlier, but they didn't keep it or report it.Police said at the time they were investigating the possibility of a hate crime.Alawadi's horrific death sparked fear and anger among immigrants who believed the crime targeted her because she was Muslim or because of her country of origin.<br /> <br /> Later court documents emerged suggesting family tensions, and showing that Alawadi was preparing to divorce her husband and move with her children to be with relatives in Texas.<br /> <br /> After Alawadi's death, Alhimidi traveled to Iraq for her burial and returned two weeks later.Redman told reporters that investigators did not have any reason to keep Alhimidi in the country at the time, NBCSanDiego.com reported. "He came back, and we decided he was a person of interest after he came back," Redman said without giving specifics.The couple's minor children have been taken into protective custody</div></blockquote><br /> <br /> Nice to see some developments in the case, and justice on its way to being served, hopefully. <br /> <br /> I've been following this incident on various forums and was always skeptical of the "hate crime" angle to it, especially after the family documents were released. <br /> <br /> It was kind of  frustrating to see the generic facebook movements like "Hoodies and Hijabs" and "One Million Hijabs for Shaima", dozens of commentaries on blogs and opinion pieces on News sites equating her death to Trayvon Martins and calling for American soul searching on race and hate in the wake of the alleged hate crime, but once it became clear it was most likely domestic violence, as police now believe it is, it gets no discussion. <br /> <br /> "Hate" Crime = A story news and social media can run with.<br /> Domestic Violence = No one wants to talk about it. ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Sat, 10 Nov 2012 13:10:48]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ nels1031]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Iraqi woman almost beaten to death in California, subsequently dies</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Wow, good grief. Didn't see that coming. Tragic indeed. ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Sat, 10 Nov 2012 13:45:19]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ MeanGreenStompa]]></author>
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				<title>Re:Iraqi woman almost beaten to death in California, subsequently dies</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ I am impressed with the police for not jumping to conclusions,  unlike our own police in the <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(134);'>Uk</span> like to do.<br /> <br /> Yes it looks like a race crime, yes is probably is a race crime, but dropping false lead evidence at a scene is a known tactic.  If (probably better to say when) this happens in the <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(134);'>UK</span> the police focus immediately on a subset of subjects at the exclusion of all other.  Nice to see that your police are smarter than this and keep options open.<br /> <br /> <i>Edit:  I had not fully read the thread. Ha, good job.</i>]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Sat, 10 Nov 2012 13:56:53]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Orlanth]]></author>
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